This is the history up to the present of my attempts to
obtain certain records from the U.S. government which
I believe may contain explosive information -- they might
reveal the first human deaths from variant CJD (the
human form of Mad Cow Disease) acquired in the U.S.

On December 28, 2004, I sent a letter to the CDC FOI
office, following the instructions given on their website
he

http://www.cdc.gov/od/foia/foidir.htm

I requested "any records in the possession of the CDC
regarding the results of any tests performed by or for
the National Prion Disease Pathology Surveillance Center
between October 15, 2004 and December 15, 2004 on
human central nervous system tissue".

According to CDC's FOI page, I should have received a
postcard from them acknowledging receipt of my request
when it was logged into their system. I also should
have received a response within 20 working days.

I did not receive a postcard or any other communication.
On February 4, 2005, I called their phone number, and
their spokesman confirmed that my request had been received
and logged as case number 05-0278. I was told that the
records I had requested had been received by the CDC
FOI office from the laboratory involved, and the records
were in the process of being reviewed for release. In a
subsequent phone call on March 14, 2005, I learned that
the requested records had been received by the CDC FOI
office on January 20, 2005, and that the records were still
in the process of being reviewed.

This is an extraordinarily long delay in the release of
these records, much longer than 20 days. This suggests
that the case was passed up the chain of command -- no one
below the highest level would have authority to release
these documents, if they contained extremely sensitive
information.

On March 19, 2005, I posted an account of these events
to rec.food.cooking and a few other newsgroups.
On March 29, 2005, I received a letter from the CDC
(dated March 23, 2005) denying my request for the records.
It seems more than a coincidence that it took a public
exposure of this case to shake loose a response from CDC.
Had I not posted my account, I think it is unlikely I
would have received a response even today.

On March 31, 2005, I sent an appeal of the denial to the
office of CDC Director Julie Gerberding. To my surprise,
I received a letter (dated April 13, 2005) not from the
CDC, but from the Public Health Service, acknowledging
receipt of my appeal. I guess nobody in the CDC had the
authority (in a practical sense, if not a legal sense)
to make a decision to release these documents. My appeal
was assigned case number PHS-2K5-A-070.

After another extraordinarily long delay, on July 23, 2005
I received a letter (dated July 19, 2005) denying my appeal.
Oddly, the reason given for denying the appeal is that the
records are not in the possession of the CDC, even though
the CDC FOI office had told me the records were received
on 1/20/05!

If these records showed nothing noteworthy, I believe
they would have been released to me long ago. I believe
that the extraordinary delays in processing my initial
request and my appeal indicate that no low-level official
could make the decision to comply with the Freedom of
Information Act by releasing the records to me. I believe
that only information of the most sensitive nature would
receive such treatment.

As I said in my appeal addressed to Director Gerberding:

"The extraordinary delay in responding to my request
suggests what these records might contain: documentation
of the first human death from variant CJD acquired in the
United States. Because variant CJD is a preventable
fatal illness, it would be against the mission of the CDC
if the public release of documentation of such an event
were suppressed or delayed. There could be U.S. citizens
that will become infected today who would have changed
their behavior to avoid infection, if a death from
U.S.-acquired variant CJD were known to have occurred."

Holy shit, Mark! Please let us know what their next communication to you
says.

What changes would a concerned consumer make in their eating habits if this
is truly a problem?

Carol

In article >,
Mark Thorson > wrote:

> If these records showed nothing noteworthy, I believe
> they would have been released to me long ago. I believe
> that the extraordinary delays in processing my initial
> request and my appeal indicate that no low-level official
> could make the decision to comply with the Freedom of
> Information Act by releasing the records to me. I believe
> that only information of the most sensitive nature would
> receive such treatment.

I'd get a japanese lawyer or contact my congressperson

In article >,
Mark Thorson > wrote:

> As I said in my appeal addressed to Director Gerberding:
>
> "The extraordinary delay in responding to my request
> suggests what these records might contain: documentation
> of the first human death from variant CJD acquired in the
> United States. Because variant CJD is a preventable
> fatal illness, it would be against the mission of the CDC
> if the public release of documentation of such an event
> were suppressed or delayed. There could be U.S. citizens
> that will become infected today who would have changed
> their behavior to avoid infection, if a death from
> U.S.-acquired variant CJD were known to have occurred."

Have you communicated the results of your request to any media
organizations?

--
Julian Vrieslander

Gosh I guess I should suddenly be concerned with contracting Mad Cow and
forgo my fears of being killed in a car accident or even one of those
dreaded household accidents. Makes me shiver.

Marc

"Julian Vrieslander" > wrote in
message
...
> In article >,
> Mark Thorson > wrote:
>
> > As I said in my appeal addressed to Director Gerberding:
> >
> > "The extraordinary delay in responding to my request
> > suggests what these records might contain: documentation
> > of the first human death from variant CJD acquired in the
> > United States. Because variant CJD is a preventable
> > fatal illness, it would be against the mission of the CDC
> > if the public release of documentation of such an event
> > were suppressed or delayed. There could be U.S. citizens
> > that will become infected today who would have changed
> > their behavior to avoid infection, if a death from
> > U.S.-acquired variant CJD were known to have occurred."
>
> Have you communicated the results of your request to any media
> organizations?
>
> --
> Julian Vrieslander

Julian Vrieslander wrote on 7/30/05 9:27 PM:
> In article >,
> Mark Thorson > wrote:
>
>
>>As I said in my appeal addressed to Director Gerberding:
>>
>>"The extraordinary delay in responding to my request
>>suggests what these records might contain: documentation
>>of the first human death from variant CJD acquired in the
>>United States. Because variant CJD is a preventable
>>fatal illness, it would be against the mission of the CDC
>>if the public release of documentation of such an event
>>were suppressed or delayed. There could be U.S. citizens
>>that will become infected today who would have changed
>>their behavior to avoid infection, if a death from
>>U.S.-acquired variant CJD were known to have occurred."
>
>
> Have you communicated the results of your request to any media
> organizations?
>

The CJD prion carrier hosts have penetrated the highest levels of
government. Just look at the white house. We are all in danger.

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 22:32:56 -0500, Damsel >
wrote:

>Holy shit, Mark! Please let us know what their next communication to you
>says.
>
>What changes would a concerned consumer make in their eating habits if this
>is truly a problem?
>
>Carol
I wouldn't get to warm and fuzzy over this. His name and subject
matter sounded familiar so I did some brief checking online. If he is
the same person, I would have to say, he is a cronic doomsayer on
everything from blue alge to flax seeds to mad cow. If it isn't him,
he might want to think about posting under a different name so as not
to be confused with the "other" Mark Thorson. Either way I have no axe
to grind, believe as you wish. I just thought you should know.

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 22:32:56 -0500, Damsel wrote:

> Holy shit, Mark! Please let us know what their next communication to you
> says.
>
> What changes would a concerned consumer make in their eating habits if this
> is truly a problem?
>

I know it's absurd, but I had to quell my immediate reaction. CDC is
no laughing matter, yet I'm actually holding myself back from making a
wise-ass remark. This is what happens when you **believe** it's true,
but you don't think it will happen to you or someone you know.

IMO: Only the most trusting of US consumers do not think that CDC
(spongiform encephalopathy) can cross borders and only the most
optimistic among us HOPE it didn't make it into the human consumption
system... except (of course) for that one cow *which went at least
"27" different ways* a few months ago.

day dreamer@dream .com@ said:

> On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 22:32:56 -0500, Damsel >
> wrote:
>
> >Holy shit, Mark! Please let us know what their next communication to you
> >says.
> >
> >What changes would a concerned consumer make in their eating habits if this
> >is truly a problem?
>
> I wouldn't get to warm and fuzzy over this. His name and subject
> matter sounded familiar so I did some brief checking online. If he is
> the same person, I would have to say, he is a cronic doomsayer on
> everything from blue alge to flax seeds to mad cow. If it isn't him,
> he might want to think about posting under a different name so as not
> to be confused with the "other" Mark Thorson. Either way I have no axe
> to grind, believe as you wish. I just thought you should know.

Well, I do know that Mark has a wicked, dry sense of humor. I kept looking
for the punch line, but never saw anything funny this time. I have "Mad
Cow" in my filters, along with lots of other serious subjects, so I've
probably missed most of the posts you're talking about.

Thanks for your helpful spirit. I wasn't worried about Mad Cow in my
grocery store yesterday, and I won't worry about it tomorrow. I'll just
take today to Google on it a little.

Thanks again,
Carol

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 04:51:09 GMT, Kenneth wrote:

> The CJD prion carrier hosts have penetrated the highest levels of
> government. Just look at the white house. We are all in danger.

They are immune by virtue of having hole ridden brains to begin with.

In article et>,
"Marc" > wrote:

> Gosh I guess I should suddenly be concerned with contracting Mad Cow and
> forgo my fears of being killed in a car accident or even one of those
> dreaded household accidents. Makes me shiver.

Well, I try to save my concerns for real, as opposed to imagined
conspiracies. But some of the reports on the mad cow and CJD issues are
tickling my alarm circuits.

Just one example: In one of the recent confirmed instances of mad cow in
the US, there were reports (in mainstream media) that a low level
government lab worker had to work around his upper level managers to get
action on the positive test result.

More disturbing to me is that medical professionals may not be able to
make a reliable differential diagnosis between CJD and Alzheimer's (and
millions of us are being diagnosed with Alz). Age of onset is one
factor, but some professionals say that the only accurate way to tell
them apart is by autopsy, and that is very rarely done. Couple this
with the fact that testing of US cattle entering the food supply is
quite spotty, and I wonder if anyone really knows the prevalence of mad
cow related CJD in the population.

There's always a balance to be struck between public safety and free
enterprise, between releasing information that might cause irrational
consumer panic and the public's right to know. But, given the
credibility record of our current adminstration, and their ties to
corporate lobbies, I am not exactly reassured.

--
Julian Vrieslander

In article >,
Damsel > wrote:

> Holy shit, Mark! Please let us know what their next communication to you
> says.
>
> What changes would a concerned consumer make in their eating habits if this
> is truly a problem?
>
> Carol

Don't eat beef?

It's over-priced anyway....... :-P
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 03:23:06 GMT, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

>This is the history up to the present of my attempts to
>obtain certain records from the U.S. government which
>I believe may contain explosive information -- they might
>reveal the first human deaths from variant CJD (the
>human form of Mad Cow Disease) acquired in the U.S.
>
>On December 28, 2004, I sent a letter to the CDC FOI
>office, following the instructions given on their website
>he
>
>http://www.cdc.gov/od/foia/foidir.htm
>
>I requested "any records in the possession of the CDC
>regarding the results of any tests performed by or for
>the National Prion Disease Pathology Surveillance Center
>between October 15, 2004 and December 15, 2004 on
>human central nervous system tissue".
>
>According to CDC's FOI page, I should have received a
>postcard from them acknowledging receipt of my request
>when it was logged into their system. I also should
>have received a response within 20 working days.
>
>I did not receive a postcard or any other communication.
>On February 4, 2005, I called their phone number, and
>their spokesman confirmed that my request had been received
>and logged as case number 05-0278. I was told that the
>records I had requested had been received by the CDC
>FOI office from the laboratory involved, and the records
>were in the process of being reviewed for release. In a
>subsequent phone call on March 14, 2005, I learned that
>the requested records had been received by the CDC FOI
>office on January 20, 2005, and that the records were still
>in the process of being reviewed.
>
>This is an extraordinarily long delay in the release of
>these records, much longer than 20 days. This suggests
>that the case was passed up the chain of command -- no one
>below the highest level would have authority to release
>these documents, if they contained extremely sensitive
>information.
>
>On March 19, 2005, I posted an account of these events
>to rec.food.cooking and a few other newsgroups.
>On March 29, 2005, I received a letter from the CDC
>(dated March 23, 2005) denying my request for the records.
>It seems more than a coincidence that it took a public
>exposure of this case to shake loose a response from CDC.
>Had I not posted my account, I think it is unlikely I
>would have received a response even today.
>
>On March 31, 2005, I sent an appeal of the denial to the
>office of CDC Director Julie Gerberding. To my surprise,
>I received a letter (dated April 13, 2005) not from the
>CDC, but from the Public Health Service, acknowledging
>receipt of my appeal. I guess nobody in the CDC had the
>authority (in a practical sense, if not a legal sense)
>to make a decision to release these documents. My appeal
>was assigned case number PHS-2K5-A-070.
>
>After another extraordinarily long delay, on July 23, 2005
>I received a letter (dated July 19, 2005) denying my appeal.
>Oddly, the reason given for denying the appeal is that the
>records are not in the possession of the CDC, even though
>the CDC FOI office had told me the records were received
>on 1/20/05!
>
>If these records showed nothing noteworthy, I believe
>they would have been released to me long ago. I believe
>that the extraordinary delays in processing my initial
>request and my appeal indicate that no low-level official
>could make the decision to comply with the Freedom of
>Information Act by releasing the records to me. I believe
>that only information of the most sensitive nature would
>receive such treatment.
>
>As I said in my appeal addressed to Director Gerberding:
>
>"The extraordinary delay in responding to my request
>suggests what these records might contain: documentation
>of the first human death from variant CJD acquired in the
>United States. Because variant CJD is a preventable
>fatal illness, it would be against the mission of the CDC
>if the public release of documentation of such an event
>were suppressed or delayed. There could be U.S. citizens
>that will become infected today who would have changed
>their behavior to avoid infection, if a death from
>U.S.-acquired variant CJD were known to have occurred."
>
>
>
>

so, if the Mad Cow disease is present in our Beef, is there anything
we can do to protect ourselves from the disease other than simply not
eating it?

You see, the older I get...the more skeptical I get...this guy could
be a "lobbiest" for the pork farmers or the chicken farmers...who can
you believe these days? If this message were believed by lots of
people the value of his pigs and chickens would increase wouldn't it?
Follow the money...the root of all evil!


Bill

OmManiPadmeOmelet > said:

> In article >,
> Damsel > wrote:
>
> > What changes would a concerned consumer make in their eating habits if this
> > is truly a problem?
>
> Don't eat beef?
>
> It's over-priced anyway....... :-P

Smart-ass! LOL!!

Carol

Once again there is no conclusive proof that BSE has any ties to CJ much as
there is no conclusive proof of global warming. Mann - I think that's the
name of the scientist that came up with the hockey stick curve that the
global warming BS is based on won't even release his data to other scientist
or has just recently. As far as the CDC goes they're pushing this BS about
this country being obese - all based on the BMI. If you used the BMI almost
the entire NBA - along with many other athletes would be considered obese.
I think that much of this crap has to do with big business and personal gain
but as far as the slams on the current adminisrtation it's interesting that
the liberal memebers of the Supreme Court ruled that emmininet domain could
be extended to properties that were to used by private business!!!

Marc

"Bill" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 03:23:06 GMT, Mark Thorson >
> wrote:
>
> >This is the history up to the present of my attempts to
> >obtain certain records from the U.S. government which
> >I believe may contain explosive information -- they might
> >reveal the first human deaths from variant CJD (the
> >human form of Mad Cow Disease) acquired in the U.S.
> >
> >On December 28, 2004, I sent a letter to the CDC FOI
> >office, following the instructions given on their website
> >he
> >
> >http://www.cdc.gov/od/foia/foidir.htm
> >
> >I requested "any records in the possession of the CDC
> >regarding the results of any tests performed by or for
> >the National Prion Disease Pathology Surveillance Center
> >between October 15, 2004 and December 15, 2004 on
> >human central nervous system tissue".
> >
> >According to CDC's FOI page, I should have received a
> >postcard from them acknowledging receipt of my request
> >when it was logged into their system. I also should
> >have received a response within 20 working days.
> >
> >I did not receive a postcard or any other communication.
> >On February 4, 2005, I called their phone number, and
> >their spokesman confirmed that my request had been received
> >and logged as case number 05-0278. I was told that the
> >records I had requested had been received by the CDC
> >FOI office from the laboratory involved, and the records
> >were in the process of being reviewed for release. In a
> >subsequent phone call on March 14, 2005, I learned that
> >the requested records had been received by the CDC FOI
> >office on January 20, 2005, and that the records were still
> >in the process of being reviewed.
> >
> >This is an extraordinarily long delay in the release of
> >these records, much longer than 20 days. This suggests
> >that the case was passed up the chain of command -- no one
> >below the highest level would have authority to release
> >these documents, if they contained extremely sensitive
> >information.
> >
> >On March 19, 2005, I posted an account of these events
> >to rec.food.cooking and a few other newsgroups.
> >On March 29, 2005, I received a letter from the CDC
> >(dated March 23, 2005) denying my request for the records.
> >It seems more than a coincidence that it took a public
> >exposure of this case to shake loose a response from CDC.
> >Had I not posted my account, I think it is unlikely I
> >would have received a response even today.
> >
> >On March 31, 2005, I sent an appeal of the denial to the
> >office of CDC Director Julie Gerberding. To my surprise,
> >I received a letter (dated April 13, 2005) not from the
> >CDC, but from the Public Health Service, acknowledging
> >receipt of my appeal. I guess nobody in the CDC had the
> >authority (in a practical sense, if not a legal sense)
> >to make a decision to release these documents. My appeal
> >was assigned case number PHS-2K5-A-070.
> >
> >After another extraordinarily long delay, on July 23, 2005
> >I received a letter (dated July 19, 2005) denying my appeal.
> >Oddly, the reason given for denying the appeal is that the
> >records are not in the possession of the CDC, even though
> >the CDC FOI office had told me the records were received
> >on 1/20/05!
> >
> >If these records showed nothing noteworthy, I believe
> >they would have been released to me long ago. I believe
> >that the extraordinary delays in processing my initial
> >request and my appeal indicate that no low-level official
> >could make the decision to comply with the Freedom of
> >Information Act by releasing the records to me. I believe
> >that only information of the most sensitive nature would
> >receive such treatment.
> >
> >As I said in my appeal addressed to Director Gerberding:
> >
> >"The extraordinary delay in responding to my request
> >suggests what these records might contain: documentation
> >of the first human death from variant CJD acquired in the
> >United States. Because variant CJD is a preventable
> >fatal illness, it would be against the mission of the CDC
> >if the public release of documentation of such an event
> >were suppressed or delayed. There could be U.S. citizens
> >that will become infected today who would have changed
> >their behavior to avoid infection, if a death from
> >U.S.-acquired variant CJD were known to have occurred."
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> so, if the Mad Cow disease is present in our Beef, is there anything
> we can do to protect ourselves from the disease other than simply not
> eating it?
>
> You see, the older I get...the more skeptical I get...this guy could
> be a "lobbiest" for the pork farmers or the chicken farmers...who can
> you believe these days? If this message were believed by lots of
> people the value of his pigs and chickens would increase wouldn't it?
> Follow the money...the root of all evil!
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>

I forgot to include the press that no longer reports news but relies on
sensationalism to drive ratings. They will take one sentence from one of
these reports an use it out of contexts to create "news".

Marc

"Marc" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Once again there is no conclusive proof that BSE has any ties to CJ much
as
> there is no conclusive proof of global warming. Mann - I think that's the
> name of the scientist that came up with the hockey stick curve that the
> global warming BS is based on won't even release his data to other
scientist
> or has just recently. As far as the CDC goes they're pushing this BS
about
> this country being obese - all based on the BMI. If you used the BMI
almost
> the entire NBA - along with many other athletes would be considered obese.
> I think that much of this crap has to do with big business and personal
gain
> but as far as the slams on the current adminisrtation it's interesting
that
> the liberal memebers of the Supreme Court ruled that emmininet domain
could
> be extended to properties that were to used by private business!!!
>
> Marc
>
> "Bill" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 03:23:06 GMT, Mark Thorson >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >This is the history up to the present of my attempts to
> > >obtain certain records from the U.S. government which
> > >I believe may contain explosive information -- they might
> > >reveal the first human deaths from variant CJD (the
> > >human form of Mad Cow Disease) acquired in the U.S.
> > >
> > >On December 28, 2004, I sent a letter to the CDC FOI
> > >office, following the instructions given on their website
> > >he
> > >
> > >http://www.cdc.gov/od/foia/foidir.htm
> > >
> > >I requested "any records in the possession of the CDC
> > >regarding the results of any tests performed by or for
> > >the National Prion Disease Pathology Surveillance Center
> > >between October 15, 2004 and December 15, 2004 on
> > >human central nervous system tissue".
> > >
> > >According to CDC's FOI page, I should have received a
> > >postcard from them acknowledging receipt of my request
> > >when it was logged into their system. I also should
> > >have received a response within 20 working days.
> > >
> > >I did not receive a postcard or any other communication.
> > >On February 4, 2005, I called their phone number, and
> > >their spokesman confirmed that my request had been received
> > >and logged as case number 05-0278. I was told that the
> > >records I had requested had been received by the CDC
> > >FOI office from the laboratory involved, and the records
> > >were in the process of being reviewed for release. In a
> > >subsequent phone call on March 14, 2005, I learned that
> > >the requested records had been received by the CDC FOI
> > >office on January 20, 2005, and that the records were still
> > >in the process of being reviewed.
> > >
> > >This is an extraordinarily long delay in the release of
> > >these records, much longer than 20 days. This suggests
> > >that the case was passed up the chain of command -- no one
> > >below the highest level would have authority to release
> > >these documents, if they contained extremely sensitive
> > >information.
> > >
> > >On March 19, 2005, I posted an account of these events
> > >to rec.food.cooking and a few other newsgroups.
> > >On March 29, 2005, I received a letter from the CDC
> > >(dated March 23, 2005) denying my request for the records.
> > >It seems more than a coincidence that it took a public
> > >exposure of this case to shake loose a response from CDC.
> > >Had I not posted my account, I think it is unlikely I
> > >would have received a response even today.
> > >
> > >On March 31, 2005, I sent an appeal of the denial to the
> > >office of CDC Director Julie Gerberding. To my surprise,
> > >I received a letter (dated April 13, 2005) not from the
> > >CDC, but from the Public Health Service, acknowledging
> > >receipt of my appeal. I guess nobody in the CDC had the
> > >authority (in a practical sense, if not a legal sense)
> > >to make a decision to release these documents. My appeal
> > >was assigned case number PHS-2K5-A-070.
> > >
> > >After another extraordinarily long delay, on July 23, 2005
> > >I received a letter (dated July 19, 2005) denying my appeal.
> > >Oddly, the reason given for denying the appeal is that the
> > >records are not in the possession of the CDC, even though
> > >the CDC FOI office had told me the records were received
> > >on 1/20/05!
> > >
> > >If these records showed nothing noteworthy, I believe
> > >they would have been released to me long ago. I believe
> > >that the extraordinary delays in processing my initial
> > >request and my appeal indicate that no low-level official
> > >could make the decision to comply with the Freedom of
> > >Information Act by releasing the records to me. I believe
> > >that only information of the most sensitive nature would
> > >receive such treatment.
> > >
> > >As I said in my appeal addressed to Director Gerberding:
> > >
> > >"The extraordinary delay in responding to my request
> > >suggests what these records might contain: documentation
> > >of the first human death from variant CJD acquired in the
> > >United States. Because variant CJD is a preventable
> > >fatal illness, it would be against the mission of the CDC
> > >if the public release of documentation of such an event
> > >were suppressed or delayed. There could be U.S. citizens
> > >that will become infected today who would have changed
> > >their behavior to avoid infection, if a death from
> > >U.S.-acquired variant CJD were known to have occurred."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > so, if the Mad Cow disease is present in our Beef, is there anything
> > we can do to protect ourselves from the disease other than simply not
> > eating it?
> >
> > You see, the older I get...the more skeptical I get...this guy could
> > be a "lobbiest" for the pork farmers or the chicken farmers...who can
> > you believe these days? If this message were believed by lots of
> > people the value of his pigs and chickens would increase wouldn't it?
> > Follow the money...the root of all evil!
> >
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
>
>

sf wrote:

<snip>

> I know it's absurd, but I had to quell my immediate reaction. CDC is
> no laughing matter...

<snip>

> IMO: Only the most trusting of US consumers do not think that CDC
> (spongiform encephalopathy) can cross borders and only the most
> optimistic among us HOPE it didn't make it into the human consumption
> system... except (of course) for that one cow *which went at least
> "27" different ways* a few months ago.

I thought CDC meant Centers for Disease Control.

"Kevin_Sheehy" > wrote in
oups.com:

> sf wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I know it's absurd, but I had to quell my immediate reaction.
>> CDC is no laughing matter...
>
> <snip>
>
>> IMO: Only the most trusting of US consumers do not think that CDC
>> (spongiform encephalopathy) can cross borders and only the most
>> optimistic among us HOPE it didn't make it into the human
>> consumption system... except (of course) for that one cow *which
>> went at least "27" different ways* a few months ago.
>
> I thought CDC meant Centers for Disease Control.

It does. I believe sf is ranting on about BSE.

--

"Compassion is the chief law of human existence."

Dostoevski, The Idiot

Bill > wrote in
:

> so, if the Mad Cow disease is present in our Beef, is there
> anything we can do to protect ourselves from the disease other than
> simply not eating it?

No.

--

"Compassion is the chief law of human existence."

Dostoevski, The Idiot

Michel Boucher > wrote in
:

> "Kevin_Sheehy" > wrote in
> oups.com:
>
>> sf wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> I know it's absurd, but I had to quell my immediate reaction.
>>> CDC is no laughing matter...
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> IMO: Only the most trusting of US consumers do not think that CDC
>>> (spongiform encephalopathy) can cross borders and only the most
>>> optimistic among us HOPE it didn't make it into the human
>>> consumption system... except (of course) for that one cow *which
>>> went at least "27" different ways* a few months ago.
>>
>> I thought CDC meant Centers for Disease Control.
>
> It does. I believe sf is ranting on about BSE.

Or CJD

--
"Compassion is the chief law of human existence."

Dostoevski, The Idiot

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 13:34:44 GMT, "Marc"
> wrote:

>Once again there is no conclusive proof that BSE has any ties to CJ much as

True, but there is a plausible biological mechanism and sufficient
evidence. That is what's needed for concern and action to protect
public health.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 09:38:56 -0500, Michel Boucher
> wrote:

>Michel Boucher > wrote in
2:
>
>> "Kevin_Sheehy" > wrote in
>> oups.com:
>>
>>> sf wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> I know it's absurd, but I had to quell my immediate reaction.
>>>> CDC is no laughing matter...
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> IMO: Only the most trusting of US consumers do not think that CDC
>>>> (spongiform encephalopathy) can cross borders and only the most
>>>> optimistic among us HOPE it didn't make it into the human
>>>> consumption system... except (of course) for that one cow *which
>>>> went at least "27" different ways* a few months ago.
>>>
>>> I thought CDC meant Centers for Disease Control.
>>
>> It does. I believe sf is ranting on about BSE.
>
>Or CJD

How about we just say "TSE" (tranmissible spongiform encephalopathies)
and cover all bases at once?

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 09:38:56 -0500, Michel Boucher
> wrote:

>Michel Boucher > wrote in
2:
>
>> "Kevin_Sheehy" > wrote in
>> oups.com:
>>
>>> sf wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> I know it's absurd, but I had to quell my immediate reaction.
>>>> CDC is no laughing matter...
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> IMO: Only the most trusting of US consumers do not think that CDC
>>>> (spongiform encephalopathy) can cross borders and only the most
>>>> optimistic among us HOPE it didn't make it into the human
>>>> consumption system... except (of course) for that one cow *which
>>>> went at least "27" different ways* a few months ago.
>>>
>>> I thought CDC meant Centers for Disease Control.
>>
>> It does. I believe sf is ranting on about BSE.
>
>Or CJD

Thorson is correct, Mad Cow Disease is called "variant
Creutzfeldt-Jakob."

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

There is plausible - how would you like to be on trial on plausible
testimony? I don't no about the evidence there is so much that is unknown -
we really don't even know what a prion is and the mechanism that make them
work.

Marc


"Curly Sue" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 13:34:44 GMT, "Marc"
> > wrote:
>
> >Once again there is no conclusive proof that BSE has any ties to CJ much
as
>
> True, but there is a plausible biological mechanism and sufficient
> evidence. That is what's needed for concern and action to protect
> public health.
>
> Sue(tm)
> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 15:09:15 GMT, "Marc"
> wrote:

>There is plausible - how would you like to be on trial on plausible
>testimony?

I wouldn't play Russian roulette. There is enough evidence that there
are bullets in the gun. You're just quibbling about how many bullets.

> I don't no about the evidence there is so much that is unknown -
>we really don't even know what a prion is and the mechanism that make them
>work.
>
>Marc

You mean you don't know what a prion is and how it works. People who
study this do.


>"Curly Sue" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 13:34:44 GMT, "Marc"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Once again there is no conclusive proof that BSE has any ties to CJ much
>as
>>
>> True, but there is a plausible biological mechanism and sufficient
>> evidence. That is what's needed for concern and action to protect
>> public health.
>>
>> Sue(tm)
>> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
>
>

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 07:33:43 GMT, Julian Vrieslander
> wrote:

>In article et>,
> "Marc" > wrote:
>
>> Gosh I guess I should suddenly be concerned with contracting Mad Cow and
>> forgo my fears of being killed in a car accident or even one of those
>> dreaded household accidents. Makes me shiver.
>
>Well, I try to save my concerns for real, as opposed to imagined
>conspiracies. But some of the reports on the mad cow and CJD issues are
>tickling my alarm circuits.
>
>Just one example: In one of the recent confirmed instances of mad cow in
>the US, there were reports (in mainstream media) that a low level
>government lab worker had to work around his upper level managers to get
>action on the positive test result.

Provide the citations, please.
>
>More disturbing to me is that medical professionals may not be able to
>make a reliable differential diagnosis between CJD and Alzheimer's (and
>millions of us are being diagnosed with Alz). Age of onset is one
>factor, but some professionals say that the only accurate way to tell
>them apart is by autopsy, and that is very rarely done. Couple this
>with the fact that testing of US cattle entering the food supply is
>quite spotty, and I wonder if anyone really knows the prevalence of mad
>cow related CJD in the population.

CJD and vCJD disable and kill pretty quickly, Generally 6 months to
(in vary rare cases) 2 years. Alzheimer's, on the other hand is much
crueler to its victims, lasting 6-10 years on average and others up to
20. Why do you think they are mistaken for each other?
>
>There's always a balance to be struck between public safety and free
>enterprise, between releasing information that might cause irrational
>consumer panic and the public's right to know. But, given the
>credibility record of our current adminstration, and their ties to
>corporate lobbies, I am not exactly reassured.

Meh. As mentioned above, the odds are more against you for being in a
car and better that you'll win the lottery or get struck by lightning.

Boron

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 09:34:24 -0500, Michel Boucher wrote:

> "Kevin_Sheehy" > wrote in
> oups.com:
>
> > sf wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >> I know it's absurd, but I had to quell my immediate reaction.
> >> CDC is no laughing matter...
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >> IMO: Only the most trusting of US consumers do not think that CDC
> >> (spongiform encephalopathy) can cross borders and only the most
> >> optimistic among us HOPE it didn't make it into the human
> >> consumption system... except (of course) for that one cow *which
> >> went at least "27" different ways* a few months ago.
> >
> > I thought CDC meant Centers for Disease Control.
>
> It does. I believe sf is ranting on about BSE.

You're both right.

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 09:38:56 -0500, Michel Boucher wrote:

> Michel Boucher > wrote in
> :

> Or CJD

or TSE

Just because there are bullets in a gun in 99.9999999999999% of all cases
does not make the gun lethal. Just like the smoking gun is not evidence for
anything more than a smoking gun! The people doing the research are not
sure how a protein - prion - can create such havoc!!! So many of these
associations are theories. With this kind of reasoning we could make the
associations that drinking water leads to death. All people drink water,
all people die so drinking water must cause death. There is still not
enough information. Some research has recently shown that salt does not led
to hypertension and the cholesterol you consume has less bearing on your
cholesterol levels than the amount of dietary fat. We don't have enough
information to tie BSE to CJ.

Marc

"Curly Sue" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 15:09:15 GMT, "Marc"
> > wrote:
>
> >There is plausible - how would you like to be on trial on plausible
> >testimony?
>
> I wouldn't play Russian roulette. There is enough evidence that there
> are bullets in the gun. You're just quibbling about how many bullets.
>
> > I don't no about the evidence there is so much that is unknown -
> >we really don't even know what a prion is and the mechanism that make
them
> >work.
> >
> >Marc
>
> You mean you don't know what a prion is and how it works. People who
> study this do.
>
>
> >"Curly Sue" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 13:34:44 GMT, "Marc"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >Once again there is no conclusive proof that BSE has any ties to CJ
much
> >as
> >>
> >> True, but there is a plausible biological mechanism and sufficient
> >> evidence. That is what's needed for concern and action to protect
> >> public health.
> >>
> >> Sue(tm)
> >> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
> >
> >
>
> Sue(tm)
> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 15:06:01 GMT, (Curly
Sue) wrote:

>On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 09:38:56 -0500, Michel Boucher
> wrote:
>
>>Michel Boucher > wrote in
42:
>>
>>> "Kevin_Sheehy" > wrote in
>>> oups.com:

>>>>
>>>> I thought CDC meant Centers for Disease Control.
>>>
>>> It does. I believe sf is ranting on about BSE.
>>
>>Or CJD
>
>Thorson is correct, Mad Cow Disease is called "variant
>Creutzfeldt-Jakob."
>


Mad Cow Disease is called BSE or Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy.
Transmitted to humans it is referred to as vCJD, or variant
Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease.

Boron

Boron Elgar wrote:
> Julian Vrieslander wrote:
>
> >Well, I try to save my concerns for real, as opposed to imagined
> >conspiracies. But some of the reports on the mad cow and CJD issues are
> >tickling my alarm circuits.
> >
> >Just one example: In one of the recent confirmed instances of mad cow in
> >the US, there were reports (in mainstream media) that a low level
> >government lab worker had to work around his upper level managers to get
> >action on the positive test result.
>
> Provide the citations, please.

I pay pretty close attention to the Mad Cow/BSE/CJD/etc. controversy, and I
don't recall any news reports of that nature. The media are driven by
sensationalism, and that's the kind of thing ALL the media would have run
with.


> >More disturbing to me is that medical professionals may not be able to
> >make a reliable differential diagnosis between CJD and Alzheimer's (and
> >millions of us are being diagnosed with Alz). Age of onset is one
> >factor, but some professionals say that the only accurate way to tell
> >them apart is by autopsy, and that is very rarely done. Couple this
> >with the fact that testing of US cattle entering the food supply is
> >quite spotty, and I wonder if anyone really knows the prevalence of mad
> >cow related CJD in the population.
>
> CJD and vCJD disable and kill pretty quickly, Generally 6 months to
> (in vary rare cases) 2 years. Alzheimer's, on the other hand is much
> crueler to its victims, lasting 6-10 years on average and others up to
> 20. Why do you think they are mistaken for each other?

Further, Alzheimer's victims generally remain physically active and
ambulatory until close to the end of the disease. CJD/related illnesses
cause ataxia and physical disability quite quickly (we all remember news
footage of pathetic stumbling cows, I'm sure).

It's my experience that CJD and BSE have been more closely compared to
disorders in which physical symptoms present first, disorders such as
Multiple Sclerosis. I've heard no comparisons to Alzheimer's disease or
other dementias, where degrees of cognitive impairment are what drive
victims and their families to see a doctor.


> >There's always a balance to be struck between public safety and free
> >enterprise, between releasing information that might cause irrational
> >consumer panic and the public's right to know. But, given the
> >credibility record of our current adminstration, and their ties to
> >corporate lobbies, I am not exactly reassured.
>
> Meh. As mentioned above, the odds are more against you for being in a
> car and better that you'll win the lottery or get struck by lightning.

The current administration are oil men, not cattle men. There's nothing in
it for them to hush up research on cattle-borne illnesses, except that it
might interfere with fuel sales for cross-country beef shipping. But,
's-okay. Fuel prices are gonna go up anyway, so what the hell.

The public can control exposure to tainted beef on its own more efficiently
than any governmental body can. If you don't want it, don't buy it!

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:14:47 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 15:06:01 GMT, (Curly
>Sue) wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 09:38:56 -0500, Michel Boucher
> wrote:
>>
>>>Michel Boucher > wrote in
. 142:
>>>
>>>> "Kevin_Sheehy" > wrote in
>>>> oups.com:
>
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought CDC meant Centers for Disease Control.
>>>>
>>>> It does. I believe sf is ranting on about BSE.
>>>
>>>Or CJD
>>
>>Thorson is correct, Mad Cow Disease is called "variant
>>Creutzfeldt-Jakob."
>>
>
>
>Mad Cow Disease is called BSE or Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy.
>Transmitted to humans it is referred to as vCJD, or variant
>Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease.
>
>Boron

Oops, mea culpa. What I meant to emphasize is that Mark was correct
in talking about vCJD, which had gotten lost in the discussion.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 10:26:40 -0600, "pennyaline"
<nsmitchell@spamspamspamspamspamspamspameggandspam .com> wrote:

>The public can control exposure to tainted beef on its own more efficiently
>than any governmental body can. If you don't want it, don't buy it!
Also if you are worried, don't eat the brain, neckbones or intestines
of cattle. Tests show these are the parts affected by BSE. Muscle
type meat isn't affected and neither are dairy products.

pennyaline wrote:

> Boron Elgar wrote:
> > Julian Vrieslander wrote:
> >
> > >Well, I try to save my concerns for real, as opposed to imagined
> > >conspiracies. But some of the reports on the mad cow and CJD
> > >issues are tickling my alarm circuits.
> > >
> > >Just one example: In one of the recent confirmed instances of
> > >mad cow in the US, there were reports (in mainstream media)
> > >that a low level government lab worker had to work around
> > >his upper level managers to get action on the positive test result.
> >
> > Provide the citations, please.
>
> I pay pretty close attention to the Mad Cow/BSE/CJD/etc.
> controversy, and I don't recall any news reports of that nature.
> The media are driven by sensationalism, and that's the kind of
> thing ALL the media would have run with.

The news story in question might be this one:

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=...9-020831-9428r

Boron Elgar > wrote in
:

> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 15:06:01 GMT, (Curly
> Sue) wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 09:38:56 -0500, Michel Boucher
> wrote:
>>
>>>Michel Boucher > wrote in
. 142:
>>>
>>>> "Kevin_Sheehy" > wrote in
>>>> oups.com:
>
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought CDC meant Centers for Disease Control.
>>>>
>>>> It does. I believe sf is ranting on about BSE.
>>>
>>>Or CJD
>>
>>Thorson is correct, Mad Cow Disease is called "variant
>>Creutzfeldt-Jakob."
>
> Mad Cow Disease is called BSE or Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy.
> Transmitted to humans it is referred to as vCJD, or variant
> Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease.

That is correct, but as yet very few cases of vCJD have been
identified, 138 cases worldwide in 2002 of which 128 were in the UK,
according to the CDC.

"Variant CJD was first reported in 1996 in the United Kingdom, where
an outbreak of BSE had been occurring among cattle since the early
1980s. Strong laboratory and epidemiologic evidence indicates that
vCJD is linked causally with BSE. Although specific foods that
transmit the BSE agent to humans have not been identified,
transmission is believed to occur primarily by processed food items
that contain infectious bovine tissues such as the brain or spinal
cord. As of early October 2002, a total of 138 vCJD cases were
reported worldwide, including the case described in this report
(note: a man in Florida). Consistent with the conclusion that the
agent of BSE is also the agent responsible for vCJD, most vCJD cases
(n=128) were reported in the United Kingdom, where most BSE cases in
cattle have occurred."

You stand a better chance of being killed by a toilet seat falling
from the MIR space station.

--

"Compassion is the chief law of human existence."

Dostoevski, The Idiot

"Marc" > wrote in
.net:

> Just because there are bullets in a gun in 99.9999999999999% of
> all cases does not make the gun lethal.

And why else does a gun exist originally except because of its
lethality? That it is put to other use is marginal to that fundamental
concept.

--

"Compassion is the chief law of human existence."

Dostoevski, The Idiot

A loaded gun on the ground will not kill anyone "99.9999999999999%" it only
becomes lethal when it is the hands of a human. Also guns do have other
uses.

Marc

"Michel Boucher" > wrote in message
...
> "Marc" > wrote in
> .net:
>
> > Just because there are bullets in a gun in 99.9999999999999% of
> > all cases does not make the gun lethal.
>
> And why else does a gun exist originally except because of its
> lethality? That it is put to other use is marginal to that fundamental
> concept.
>
> --
>
> "Compassion is the chief law of human existence."
>
> Dostoevski, The Idiot

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 20:14:41 GMT, "Marc"
> wrote:

> A loaded gun on the ground will not kill anyone "99.9999999999999%" it only
> becomes lethal when it is the hands of a human. Also guns do have other
> uses.

as flower vases?

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 16:48:14 GMT, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

>pennyaline wrote:
>
>> Boron Elgar wrote:
>> > Julian Vrieslander wrote:
>> >
>> > >Well, I try to save my concerns for real, as opposed to imagined
>> > >conspiracies. But some of the reports on the mad cow and CJD
>> > >issues are tickling my alarm circuits.
>> > >
>> > >Just one example: In one of the recent confirmed instances of
>> > >mad cow in the US, there were reports (in mainstream media)
>> > >that a low level government lab worker had to work around
>> > >his upper level managers to get action on the positive test result.
>> >
>> > Provide the citations, please.
>>
>> I pay pretty close attention to the Mad Cow/BSE/CJD/etc.
>> controversy, and I don't recall any news reports of that nature.
>> The media are driven by sensationalism, and that's the kind of
>> thing ALL the media would have run with.
>
>The news story in question might be this one:
>
>http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=...9-020831-9428r
>
>
>

This same UPI story has been bopping around the Internet in kook
groups for 2 years. I have never, ever seen anything in the literature
that confirms a word of it. Might I also remind you that UPI is owned
by Sun Myung Moon, the lunatic who owns the Washington Times.

Boron

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 14:51:25 -0500, Michel Boucher
> wrote:

>Boron Elgar > wrote in
:
>
>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 15:06:01 GMT, (Curly
>> Sue) wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 09:38:56 -0500, Michel Boucher
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Michel Boucher > wrote in
.142:
>>>>
>>>>> "Kevin_Sheehy" > wrote in
>>>>> oups.com:
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought CDC meant Centers for Disease Control.
>>>>>
>>>>> It does. I believe sf is ranting on about BSE.
>>>>
>>>>Or CJD
>>>
>>>Thorson is correct, Mad Cow Disease is called "variant
>>>Creutzfeldt-Jakob."
>>
>> Mad Cow Disease is called BSE or Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy.
>> Transmitted to humans it is referred to as vCJD, or variant
>> Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease.
>
>That is correct, but as yet very few cases of vCJD have been
>identified, 138 cases worldwide in 2002 of which 128 were in the UK,
>according to the CDC.

I agree and would never imply otherwise. I think there is more risk
in a diet of red meat from CHD than, than vCJD!
>
>"Variant CJD was first reported in 1996 in the United Kingdom, where
>an outbreak of BSE had been occurring among cattle since the early
>1980s. Strong laboratory and epidemiologic evidence indicates that
>vCJD is linked causally with BSE. Although specific foods that
>transmit the BSE agent to humans have not been identified,
>transmission is believed to occur primarily by processed food items
>that contain infectious bovine tissues such as the brain or spinal
>cord. As of early October 2002, a total of 138 vCJD cases were
>reported worldwide, including the case described in this report
>(note: a man in Florida). Consistent with the conclusion that the
>agent of BSE is also the agent responsible for vCJD, most vCJD cases
>(n=128) were reported in the United Kingdom, where most BSE cases in
>cattle have occurred."
>
>You stand a better chance of being killed by a toilet seat falling
>from the MIR space station.

Careful...those Russians built that thing shoddily. You're upping the
odds....

Boron