I'm sorry for the ignorant question ahead of time. I'm thinking of buying a
deep fryer and was worried that using new oil would be pricey everytime.
Folks tell me that you just strain and reuse. How can you cook say "shrimp"
and not have the bacteria in the oil next meal?

Thanks in advance.

"MARY SMITH" > wrote in message
...
> I'm sorry for the ignorant question ahead of time. I'm thinking of buying
a
> deep fryer and was worried that using new oil would be pricey everytime.
> Folks tell me that you just strain and reuse. How can you cook say
"shrimp"
> and not have the bacteria in the oil next meal?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>

Nothing ignorant about your question! Bacteria are not a problem because the
temperature of frying kills them all. Oil does get stale and absorbs
flavors, but you can still use it 2 or 3 times if you strain it and store in
the fridge. Keep track of what the oil was used for. For example oil that
was used to fry potatoes or hush puppies can be reused for fish, but not the
other way around.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

Don't worry about it. The temperature kills all the bad guys. You may have
flavors mixing but not so much that you would notice it.
Restaurants cook shrimp pork beef etc in deep fat fryers all the time.


"MARY SMITH" > wrote in message
...
> I'm sorry for the ignorant question ahead of time. I'm thinking of buying
a
> deep fryer and was worried that using new oil would be pricey everytime.
> Folks tell me that you just strain and reuse. How can you cook say
"shrimp"
> and not have the bacteria in the oil next meal?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>

MARY SMITH wrote:

> I'm sorry for the ignorant question ahead of time. I'm thinking of buying a
> deep fryer and was worried that using new oil would be pricey everytime.
> Folks tell me that you just strain and reuse. How can you cook say "shrimp"
> and not have the bacteria in the oil next meal?

Bacteria are all killed by deep fry temperatures.

There will be some acquisition of flavors in the cooking, but it's no
big deal. Filter the oil and store it in a cool, dark place. You
should get a dozen uses out of it. Restaurants routinely use oil for a
week or more, filtering daily. Typically, they turn the fryers on
before lunch and leave them on until closing. Those operations with
constant filtration units often are able to get weeks of use from a
single fill with replenishment.

Oil isn't anywhere near as fragile as most people would have you believe.

Pastorio

"Bob (this one)" wrote:

> Bacteria are all killed by deep fry temperatures.

But the toxins they create aren't necessarily destroyed.
You need to demonstrate that too, for your argument
to hold. If crud dropped to the bottom and putrified,
how do you know it won't poison the oil?

> There will be some acquisition of flavors in the cooking,
> but it's no big deal. Filter the oil and store it in a cool,
> dark place.

In an airtight container. Exposure to oxygen is the
first most important thing, and exposure to light
is second. Temperature is not important.

> You should get a dozen uses out of it. Restaurants
> routinely use oil for a week or more, filtering daily.
> Typically, they turn the fryers on before lunch and
> leave them on until closing. Those operations with
> constant filtration units often are able to get weeks
> of use from a single fill with replenishment.
>
> Oil isn't anywhere near as fragile as most people
> would have you believe.

If it's a highly saturated oil like coconut oil, lard, or
commercial deep-fry oils, it's as stable as you describe.
Vegetable oils (except coconut oil and hydrogenated
vegetable oils) spoil fairly rapidly in some deep fry
applications. For making fried donuts at a retail donut
shop, they're fine, because the fry oils are replaced
more quickly than they spoil. (Due to the constant
and rapid outflow of fry oil over the counter, in the
donut business.)

"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
...
> MARY SMITH wrote:
>
> > I'm sorry for the ignorant question ahead of time. I'm thinking of
buying a
> > deep fryer and was worried that using new oil would be pricey everytime.
> > Folks tell me that you just strain and reuse. How can you cook say
"shrimp"
> > and not have the bacteria in the oil next meal?
>
> Bacteria are all killed by deep fry temperatures.
>
> There will be some acquisition of flavors in the cooking, but it's no
> big deal. Filter the oil and store it in a cool, dark place. You
> should get a dozen uses out of it. Restaurants routinely use oil for a
> week or more, filtering daily. Typically, they turn the fryers on
> before lunch and leave them on until closing. Those operations with
> constant filtration units often are able to get weeks of use from a
> single fill with replenishment.
>

I don't doubt that restaurants do it the way you describe - the stale oil
smell that surrounds every Chick Fillet restaurant is ample proof!. But
using oil more than 2-3 times definitely affects the flavor of things fried
in it subsequently. This is obviously acceptible to some people - if you
never fry at home you may never have tasted food fried in fresh oil. For the
best results, particularly with delicate foods like tempura, you need fresh
oil. Bottom line, save your oil and see how long you can reuse it before the
taste becomes objectionable to you.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...
> "Bob (this one)" wrote:
>
> > Bacteria are all killed by deep fry temperatures.
>
> But the toxins they create aren't necessarily destroyed.
> You need to demonstrate that too, for your argument
> to hold. If crud dropped to the bottom and putrified,
> how do you know it won't poison the oil?
>

First of all, if the bacteria are all killed they cannot produce any toxins.
Second, all bacterial toxins are, to the best of my knowledge, proteins. If
there's a protein that can withstand 365f without being denatured, I have
yet to hear about it.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

Peter Aitken writes:
>
>"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...
>> "Bob (this one)" wrote:
>>
>> > Bacteria are all killed by deep fry temperatures.

True
>>
>> But the toxins they create aren't necessarily destroyed.
>> You need to demonstrate that too, for your argument
>> to hold. If crud dropped to the bottom and putrified,
>> how do you know it won't poison the oil?

True, if 90 deg. rotated out of phase.

>>
>
>First of all, if the bacteria are all killed they cannot produce any toxins.

Botulism. Ain't the spores, it's the toxins they produce before they die.

>Second, all bacterial toxins are, to the best of my knowledge, proteins. If
>there's a protein that can withstand 365f without being denatured, I have
>yet to hear about it.

Interesting. My knowledge is on the lower end of the temp spectrum. In the
interest of further broadening my education could you provide me with a source?

Best,

Marc the narrowly edumacated.

"MrAoD" > wrote in message
...
> Peter Aitken writes:
> >
> >"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> "Bob (this one)" wrote:
> >>
> >> > Bacteria are all killed by deep fry temperatures.
>
> True
> >>
> >> But the toxins they create aren't necessarily destroyed.
> >> You need to demonstrate that too, for your argument
> >> to hold. If crud dropped to the bottom and putrified,
> >> how do you know it won't poison the oil?
>
> True, if 90 deg. rotated out of phase.
>
> >>
> >
> >First of all, if the bacteria are all killed they cannot produce any
toxins.
>
> Botulism. Ain't the spores, it's the toxins they produce before they die.
>
> >Second, all bacterial toxins are, to the best of my knowledge, proteins.
If
> >there's a protein that can withstand 365f without being denatured, I have
> >yet to hear about it.
>
> Interesting. My knowledge is on the lower end of the temp spectrum. In
the
> interest of further broadening my education could you provide me with a
source?
>
> Best,
>
> Marc the narrowly edumacated.


FYI:

http://wellness.ucdavis.edu/safety_i....html#botulism


How can botulism be destroyed?
Spores are highly resistant to destruction. They can survive hours of
boiling at 212° F (100° C). Pressure cooking at 240° F (120° C) for 30
minutes can kill spores. The toxin (not the spores) is readily destroyed by
boiling at 212° F (100° C) for 10 minutes or heating to 176° F (80° C) for
30 minutes.


Dimitri

"MrAoD" > wrote in message
...
> Peter Aitken writes:
> >
> >"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> "Bob (this one)" wrote:
> >>
> >> > Bacteria are all killed by deep fry temperatures.
>
> True
> >>
> >> But the toxins they create aren't necessarily destroyed.
> >> You need to demonstrate that too, for your argument
> >> to hold. If crud dropped to the bottom and putrified,
> >> how do you know it won't poison the oil?
>
> True, if 90 deg. rotated out of phase.
>
> >>
> >
> >First of all, if the bacteria are all killed they cannot produce any
toxins.
>
> Botulism. Ain't the spores, it's the toxins they produce before they die.

But when would they produce the toxins? The oil is sterile initially, so any
bacteria would have to be introduced from the food - and they would be
killed during the frying.

>
> >Second, all bacterial toxins are, to the best of my knowledge, proteins.
If
> >there's a protein that can withstand 365f without being denatured, I have
> >yet to hear about it.
>
> Interesting. My knowledge is on the lower end of the temp spectrum. In
the
> interest of further broadening my education could you provide me with a
source?
>

Nothing more specific than a textbook on protein chemistry.

But have you ever heard of anyone being poisoned from reused oil? I haven't.
Too often people worry about what could, in theory, happen and pay no
attention to what actually does and does not happen in the real world.

--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

>: deep fryer oil and its reuse
>From: "Dimitri"
>Date: 4/13/2004 12:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"MrAoD" > wrote in message
...
>> Peter Aitken writes:
>> >
>> >"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> "Bob (this one)" wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Bacteria are all killed by deep fry temperatures.
>>
>> True
>> >>
>> >> But the toxins they create aren't necessarily destroyed.
>> >> You need to demonstrate that too, for your argument
>> >> to hold. If crud dropped to the bottom and putrified,
>> >> how do you know it won't poison the oil?
>>
>> True, if 90 deg. rotated out of phase.
>>
>> >>
>> >
>> >First of all, if the bacteria are all killed they cannot produce any
>toxins.
>>
>> Botulism. Ain't the spores, it's the toxins they produce before they die.
>>
>> >Second, all bacterial toxins are, to the best of my knowledge, proteins.
>If
>> >there's a protein that can withstand 365f without being denatured, I have
>> >yet to hear about it.
>>
>> Interesting. My knowledge is on the lower end of the temp spectrum. In
>the
>> interest of further broadening my education could you provide me with a
>source?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Marc the narrowly edumacated.
>
>
>FYI:
>
>
>http://wellness.ucdavis.edu/safety_i...oison_book/foo
d_poisoning.html#botulism
>
>
>How can botulism be destroyed?
>Spores are highly resistant to destruction. They can survive hours of
>boiling at 212° F (100° C). Pressure cooking at 240° F (120° C) for 30
>minutes can kill spores. The toxin (not the spores) is readily destroyed by
>boiling at 212° F (100° C) for 10 minutes or heating to 176° F (80° C) for
>30 minutes.

Thanks for the ref. I'm more curious about the denaturing of proteins, do you
have a general reference?

Best,

Marc

"Peter Aitken" writes:

>"MrAoD" > wrote in message
...
>> Peter Aitken writes:
>> >
>> >"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> "Bob (this one)" wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Bacteria are all killed by deep fry temperatures.
>>
>> True
>> >>
>> >> But the toxins they create aren't necessarily destroyed.
>> >> You need to demonstrate that too, for your argument
>> >> to hold. If crud dropped to the bottom and putrified,
>> >> how do you know it won't poison the oil?
>>
>> True, if 90 deg. rotated out of phase.
>>
>> >>
>> >
>> >First of all, if the bacteria are all killed they cannot produce any
>toxins.
>>
>> Botulism. Ain't the spores, it's the toxins they produce before they die.
>
>But when would they produce the toxins? The oil is sterile initially, so any
>bacteria would have to be introduced from the food - and they would be
>killed during the frying.

Eh . . reused-oil? Possible soil-bacteria contamination from say garlic? Mind
you I keep my oil hot, slight below smoking, after I remove the last bit of
food then strain and refrigerate. but I doubt all are so rigorous.
>
>>
>> >Second, all bacterial toxins are, to the best of my knowledge, proteins.
>If
>> >there's a protein that can withstand 365f without being denatured, I have
>> >yet to hear about it.
>>
>> Interesting. My knowledge is on the lower end of the temp spectrum. In
>the
>> interest of further broadening my education could you provide me with a
>source?
>>
>
>Nothing more specific than a textbook on protein chemistry.

OK, once I get done with the 76-page copyleft introductory math PDF for my
5YO's education I'll look for a general ref on protein chem.

Thank Glub I've only got 9 years until retirement!
>
>But have you ever heard of anyone being poisoned from reused oil? I haven't.
>Too often people worry about what could, in theory, happen and pay no
>attention to what actually does and does not happen in the real world.

I agree. I haven't worried about food poisoning/toxic stuff when eating
self-prepared food, or even 'straunt food, in years. I've eaten enough bad
stuff and "suffered" through the 24-hour-cr*p-yourself-blind then eat another
piece thingy so's I figure I could digest a 70s buick with suicide doors given
sufficient time.

Best,

Marc
>
>--
>Peter Aitken
>
>Remove the crap from my email address before using.

MrAoD wrote:

>
> Eh . . reused-oil? Possible soil-bacteria contamination from say garlic? Mind
> you I keep my oil hot, slight below smoking, after I remove the last bit of
> food then strain and refrigerate. but I doubt all are so rigorous.

I tend to be more afraid of the hot oil than the bacteria in cooking oil. I figure
that heated oil is more than hot enough to destroy the bacteria and to break down
the toxins. I confess to being less careful with storing the oil, straining it
after four or five uses, and usually just letting it cook in the fryer and sticking
it back in the cupboard. I have never had a problem with it, and I change it about
ever month and a half.


>
> Thank Glub I've only got 9 years until retirement!

That's where I was 8 hears 9 1/2 months ago..... just 44 working days left :-)

> I agree. I haven't worried about food poisoning/toxic stuff when eating
> self-prepared food, or even 'straunt food, in years. I've eaten enough bad
> stuff and "suffered" through the 24-hour-cr*p-yourself-blind then eat another
> piece thingy so's I figure I could digest a 70s buick with suicide doors given
> sufficient time.

I have heard that most "stomach flu" is actually a mild case of food poisoning.
Having once had a good dose of it I am very careful about stored foods and clean
work surfaces. In my case, I suspect the contamination came from the meat sauce in
a chilli dog I ate in the restaurant of the store I worked in as a teenager. It hit
me about 5 hours after eating. I started feeling ill around 5:30, rushed out of the
place a 6:00, was home within 10 minutes, barely made it to the washroom. I started
to vomit, and when there was nothing left to throw up I stayed on my knees and
retched until almost 11:30, the single worst experience of my life and one which I
don't ever want to repeat.

Dave Smith writes:
>MrAoD wrote:
>
[snip]
>> Thank Glub I've only got 9 years until retirement!
>
>That's where I was 8 hears 9 1/2 months ago..... just 44 working days left
>:-)

Lucky you. Enjoy it. My next-door neighbor pulled the pin in January. I
didn't see him for about a month thereafter. In March we were both working in
our respective yards and stopped for a chat. He told me that the once jarring
note of retirement was how *little* he missed the routine of work.

Like so many of us he had been defining himself by his profession and the
absence of a professional sense of self should have triggered some sort of
reaction, or so he thought.

He speculated that in the final three years of his career he had become so
distanced from his work life that his retirement effectively began before he
signed the papers.

>> I agree. I haven't worried about food poisoning/toxic stuff when eating
>> self-prepared food, or even 'straunt food, in years. I've eaten enough bad
>> stuff and "suffered" through the 24-hour-cr*p-yourself-blind then eat
>another
>> piece thingy so's I figure I could digest a 70s buick with suicide doors
>given
>> sufficient time.
>
>I have heard that most "stomach flu" is actually a mild case of food
>poisoning.

I've heard that too. Every once in a while I'll get a bite of something and
think "hmmm, well *that's* definitely off". I stop eating at that point.

Best,

Marc

Katra wrote:

> Salmonella was no fun tho'. Ended up in the ER after 3 days of not being
> able to eat or drink anything but water. :-P
> Don't mess with iffy eggs! Not even from your own birds. (long story)

Ouch. Was this from undercooked eggs, or something problem?

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

In article >,
(MrAoD) wrote:

> Dave Smith writes:
> >MrAoD wrote:
> >
> [snip]
> >> Thank Glub I've only got 9 years until retirement!
> >
> >That's where I was 8 hears 9 1/2 months ago..... just 44 working days left
> >:-)
>
> Lucky you. Enjoy it. My next-door neighbor pulled the pin in January. I
> didn't see him for about a month thereafter. In March we were both working in
> our respective yards and stopped for a chat. He told me that the once jarring
> note of retirement was how *little* he missed the routine of work.

Damn I envy that... I've still got a minumum of 18 years to go! <sob!>
Feels like a jail sentence almost! :-P

>
> Like so many of us he had been defining himself by his profession and the
> absence of a professional sense of self should have triggered some sort of
> reaction, or so he thought.

Ha! Right. Maybe when I was in my 20's and early 30's.
I realized a few years ago that there was more to life than work. :-)
I've got tons of hobbies I'd like to indulge in.

I don't hate my work, but neither do I live for it.

>
> He speculated that in the final three years of his career he had become so
> distanced from his work life that his retirement effectively began before he
> signed the papers.

Smart man. ;-)

>
> >> I agree. I haven't worried about food poisoning/toxic stuff when eating
> >> self-prepared food, or even 'straunt food, in years. I've eaten enough bad
> >> stuff and "suffered" through the 24-hour-cr*p-yourself-blind then eat
> >another
> >> piece thingy so's I figure I could digest a 70s buick with suicide doors
> >given
> >> sufficient time.
> >
> >I have heard that most "stomach flu" is actually a mild case of food
> >poisoning.
>
> I've heard that too. Every once in a while I'll get a bite of something and
> think "hmmm, well *that's* definitely off". I stop eating at that point.
>
> Best,
>
> Marc

Most mild food poisoning is handled rather well, but I quit trying to
"salvage" off food ages ago. That is why I have chickens. <G>

Salmonella was no fun tho'. Ended up in the ER after 3 days of not being
able to eat or drink anything but water. :-P
Don't mess with iffy eggs! Not even from your own birds. (long story)

Antibiotics and fenergin (sp?) are a good thing.......

K.

--
Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...user id=katra

Reg wrote:

> Katra wrote:
>
>> Salmonella was no fun tho'. Ended up in the ER after 3 days of not
>> being able to eat or drink anything but water. :-P Don't mess with
>> iffy eggs! Not even from your own birds. (long story)
>
>
> Ouch. Was this from undercooked eggs, or something problem?
>

s/something/some other/

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

In article >,
Reg > wrote:

> Katra wrote:
>
> > Salmonella was no fun tho'. Ended up in the ER after 3 days of not being
> > able to eat or drink anything but water. :-P
> > Don't mess with iffy eggs! Not even from your own birds. (long story)
>
> Ouch. Was this from undercooked eggs, or something problem?

Well... <idiot confession>

I've been eating raw eggs for things like smoothies and steak tartar for
years.

When I collect eggs in the henhouse, any eggs that appear to be even
slightly cracked or damaged always got tossed into the henyard for the
girls to snack on.

Dad's eyesite is not as good as mine! He sometimes collects eggs in the
evenings and he's not as observant. I ate a cracked egg that I thought
had gotten cracked _after_ cleaning. That's the only thing that I could
think of considering the cramps started just a few hours later. <sigh>

Seems my raw egg habit finally caught up with me. <G>

K.

--
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>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...user id=katra

Katra wrote:

> Well... <idiot confession>
>
> I've been eating raw eggs for things like smoothies and steak tartar for
> years.
>
> When I collect eggs in the henhouse, any eggs that appear to be even
> slightly cracked or damaged always got tossed into the henyard for the
> girls to snack on.
>
> Dad's eyesite is not as good as mine! He sometimes collects eggs in the
> evenings and he's not as observant. I ate a cracked egg that I thought
> had gotten cracked _after_ cleaning. That's the only thing that I could
> think of considering the cramps started just a few hours later. <sigh>
>
> Seems my raw egg habit finally caught up with me. <G>

I've eaten raw eggs my whole life. I can't imagine going out for sushi and
not finishing the night off with a serving of tobiko with quail egg, etc.
I've always thought the odds were with me, but as I get older and my immune
system weakens I may have a change of heart.

In any case, thanks for filling me in. You've got enough stories to
fill a book.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

In article >,
Reg > wrote:

> Katra wrote:
>
> > Well... <idiot confession>
> >
> > I've been eating raw eggs for things like smoothies and steak tartar for
> > years.
> >
> > When I collect eggs in the henhouse, any eggs that appear to be even
> > slightly cracked or damaged always got tossed into the henyard for the
> > girls to snack on.
> >
> > Dad's eyesite is not as good as mine! He sometimes collects eggs in the
> > evenings and he's not as observant. I ate a cracked egg that I thought
> > had gotten cracked _after_ cleaning. That's the only thing that I could
> > think of considering the cramps started just a few hours later. <sigh>
> >
> > Seems my raw egg habit finally caught up with me. <G>
>
> I've eaten raw eggs my whole life. I can't imagine going out for sushi and
> not finishing the night off with a serving of tobiko with quail egg, etc.
> I've always thought the odds were with me, but as I get older and my immune
> system weakens I may have a change of heart.
>
> In any case, thanks for filling me in. You've got enough stories to
> fill a book.

<grins> Seems that way. ;-)
I still think that most raw eggs are perfectly safe as long as the
eggshell is intact so no feces could get inside the shell.

Others may have different opinions. There is nothing like a whole raw
yolk popped over your tongue with a dash of salt. Ummmm!!!!!

I also do the whole sashimi thing at the japanese restaraunt with raw
quail egg......

K.

--
Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...user id=katra

>any eggs that appear to be even
>slightly cracked or damaged always got tossed into the henyard for the
>girls to snack on.

It's been more than a decade since a strain of salmonella developed that is
able to form inside uncracked eggs, being passed directly from the hen's ovary.

Neil

In article >,
(WardNA) wrote:

> >any eggs that appear to be even
> >slightly cracked or damaged always got tossed into the henyard for the
> >girls to snack on.
>
> It's been more than a decade since a strain of salmonella developed that is
> able to form inside uncracked eggs, being passed directly from the hen's
> ovary.
>
> Neil

I'm still pretty sure that the egg that got me was the damaged one. ;-)
It looked "odd" but smelled and tasted fine.

As said, I've been eating raw eggs for years and never got sick until
this one incident... Evidently the critters had managed to multiply to
sufficient numbers to get me. Infection rate can be "dosage" related in
someone with a reasonably healthy immune system.

--
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>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...user id=katra