ilaboo wrote:

>
>
> all the cooking technique books i read tell about taking wine or
> balsamic vinegar and slowing heating (sometimes boiling) the solution
> so water is removed and flavor increased by concentrating the flavors.
>
> main problem is how to remove water from wine/vinegar solutions
> without destroying flavor.
>
> i do not have any idea how the commercial companies make reductions
>
>
> heating these solutions would drive off very subtle flavors and really
> is not the ideal way to do it.
>
>
> since i do not have a freeze dry machine or a vacuum still ( this
> would allow you to use very little heat and water would be driven off
> by actually boiling the liquid at a very low temperature.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> freezing the solution and frequently removing the water ( ice) might
> be ok.
>
> one solution which i am now going to play with is to use sausage
> casing to act as a membrane that allows water vapor to go thru but not
> the good stuff
>
> ( a gore tex tube would really work nice--i think)
>
> anyway
> using large collagen casing i have place balsamic vinegar and wine
> into separate casing and placed them outside---i like the idea of
> using fresh air to remove water.
>
>
> so far it seems that some of the wine/vinegar is diffusing out of the
> casings but will continue to see what happens.
>
>
> i have ordered dialysis tubing which might be a great way to do this.
>
>
> keep tuned
>
>
> peter

Some interesting concepts but I retired from the dialysis industry last
year and never heard of dialysis "tubing". If you're talking about the
semi permeable membrane within the dialyzer, be advised that most of the
materials used today are for Hi-Flux dialysis and the pores are
huge....almost big enough to spill protein. The older dialyzers were
made from cellulose acetate and the pores were much smaller....so....if
you can find it, cellophane might work. (And be cheaper.)

Bubba

--
You wanna measure, or you wanna cook?

Bubba wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Some interesting concepts but I retired from the dialysis industry last
> year and never heard of dialysis "tubing".
>

tried to find cellophane tubing to no avail--maybe should look for bags

dialysis tuping is used to coincentrate protein solutions--comes in
various molecular weight passing or pore sizes

got some coming from ebay but needs to soaked in chelating chemical to
remover traces of haavy metals

dialysis tubing is a catch all for tubing used like this


i think it's going to be a neat way to create reductions--i always
wanted a kitchen with salami etc hanging from the ceiling--the casing
hanging on my closesline is freaking some people out!!

hth
peter

ilaboo wrote:


looks like it's concentrated to about 1/3 of original volumn

will give it more time--aiming to about 1/8 of original

ilaboo wrote:

> ilaboo wrote:
>
> looks like it's concentrated to about 1/3 of original volumn
>
> will give it more time--aiming to about 1/8 of original

Are you distinguishing between mere reduction with loss of many
components and actual concentration with only the loss of water? How
are you making that determination?

What was beginning pH? Present pH?

Pastorio

making only a concentration

should have checked ph of the wine --have ph paper


as i see it a reduction is reducting the volumne of the liqid by driving
of water usually by gentle heat


it's the heat i am trying to avoid

heat not only drives out water but a bunch of volitile components and
probably carmelizes ( have to look up chemistry of that) or hydolizes
various sugars --which may or not be agood thing


seems so far working out rather well ( did not taste any of it yet!!)
stay tuned

peter

ilaboo wrote:

> making only a concentration
>
> should have checked ph of the wine --have ph paper
>
> as i see it a reduction is reducting the volumne of the liqid by driving
> of water usually by gentle heat

Right. ANd lots of other stuff, too. That's why you can smell it. If
it were just water; no smell.

> it's the heat i am trying to avoid
>
> heat not only drives out water but a bunch of volitile components and
> probably carmelizes ( have to look up chemistry of that) or hydolizes
> various sugars --which may or not be agood thing

So without any basis for the decision, you've decided to avoid heat.
Good thinking. Sorta.

> seems so far working out rather well ( did not taste any of it yet!!)
> stay tuned

Peter, you have an uncanny knack for picking irrelevant criteria for
your decisions. The whole point of this reduction, you say it to drive
out the excess water while retaining the other desirable elements. Why
don't you just freeze it. Water will freeze first. Other stuff remains
liquid. Maybe. Another science project. No heat involved.

Pastorio

Bob Pastorio egged Peter on:

> Peter, you have an uncanny knack for picking irrelevant criteria for your
> decisions. The whole point of this reduction, you say it to drive out the
> excess water while retaining the other desirable elements. Why don't you
> just freeze it. Water will freeze first. Other stuff remains liquid.
> Maybe. Another science project. No heat involved.

Oh, c'mon, Bob! You know perfectly well that a better way to remove the
water would be to freeze the liquid in a vacuum chamber. And I'm sure that
Peter would be willing to acquire an apparatus which would allow him to do
just that.

Bob

ilaboo wrote:

> ilaboo wrote:
>
> looks like it's concentrated to about 1/3 of original volumn
>
> will give it more time--aiming to about 1/8 of original

Are you distinguishing between mere reduction with loss of many
components and actual concentration with only the loss of water? How
are you making that determination?

What was beginning pH? Present pH?

Pastorio

ilaboo wrote:

> ilaboo wrote:
>
> looks like it's concentrated to about 1/3 of original volumn
>
> will give it more time--aiming to about 1/8 of original

Are you distinguishing between mere reduction with loss of many
components and actual concentration with only the loss of water? How
are you making that determination?

What was beginning pH? Present pH?

Pastorio

ilaboo wrote:


looks like it's concentrated to about 1/3 of original volumn

will give it more time--aiming to about 1/8 of original

ilaboo wrote:


looks like it's concentrated to about 1/3 of original volumn

will give it more time--aiming to about 1/8 of original