You yanks use mad measurements,I just found a crumble recipe, 12
tablespoons of butter [impossible] they wanted it grated,it would need
to be hard.
butter should be by weight unless melted is specified and even if so it
would be better by weight then melted.
I realize that you also have a size which we do not have but once you
know it is easy, but this spoon rubbish took me ages to figure out with
google
Can any one explain how this spoonful of butter started?

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 8:51:21 AM UTC-4, F Murtz wrote:
> You yanks use mad measurements,I just found a crumble recipe, 12
> tablespoons of butter [impossible] they wanted it grated,it would need
> to be hard.
> butter should be by weight unless melted is specified and even if so it
> would be better by weight then melted.

12 tablespoons is 1.5 sticks of butter in the configuration most
commonly sold in U.S. markets. The paper wrappers are marked in
tablespoon increments. One stick of butter is 0.25 pound.

> I realize that you also have a size which we do not have but once you
> know it is easy, but this spoon rubbish took me ages to figure out with
> google
> Can any one explain how this spoonful of butter started?

Home cooks in the U.S. don't weigh their ingredients. Stick to Euro
recipes if volumetric measurements bother you.

Cindy Hamilton

On 07/04/20 22:58, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 8:51:21 AM UTC-4, F Murtz wrote:
>> You yanks use mad measurements,I just found a crumble recipe, 12
>> tablespoons of butter [impossible] they wanted it grated,it would need
>> to be hard.
>> butter should be by weight unless melted is specified and even if so it
>> would be better by weight then melted.
>
> 12 tablespoons is 1.5 sticks of butter in the configuration most
> commonly sold in U.S. markets. The paper wrappers are marked in
> tablespoon increments. One stick of butter is 0.25 pound.
>
>> I realize that you also have a size which we do not have but once you
>> know it is easy, but this spoon rubbish took me ages to figure out with
>> google
>> Can any one explain how this spoonful of butter started?
>
> Home cooks in the U.S. don't weigh their ingredients. Stick to Euro
> recipes if volumetric measurements bother you.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
Still mad to me.

On 2020-04-07 8:58 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 8:51:21 AM UTC-4, F Murtz wrote:
>> You yanks use mad measurements,I just found a crumble recipe, 12
>> tablespoons of butter [impossible] they wanted it grated,it would need
>> to be hard.
>> butter should be by weight unless melted is specified and even if so it
>> would be better by weight then melted.
>
> 12 tablespoons is 1.5 sticks of butter in the configuration most
> commonly sold in U.S. markets. The paper wrappers are marked in
> tablespoon increments. One stick of butter is 0.25 pound.

I can't disagree with that. Sticks of butter are lesson common on this
side of the border, but there are some brands that come that way. I have
occasionally use recipes that call for one or a couple Tbls. butter, but
not 12.

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> On 2020-04-07 8:58 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 8:51:21 AM UTC-4, F Murtz wrote:
> >> You yanks use mad measurements,I just found a crumble recipe, 12
> >> tablespoons of butter [impossible] they wanted it grated,it would need
> >> to be hard.
> >> butter should be by weight unless melted is specified and even if so it
> >> would be better by weight then melted.
> >
> > 12 tablespoons is 1.5 sticks of butter in the configuration most
> > commonly sold in U.S. markets. The paper wrappers are marked in
> > tablespoon increments. One stick of butter is 0.25 pound.
>
> I can't disagree with that. Sticks of butter are lesson common on this
> side of the border, but there are some brands that come that way. I have
> occasionally use recipes that call for one or a couple Tbls. butter, but
> not 12.

Most butter sold in the USA comes as:
4 sticks in a one pound pack of butter.
Each stick is 8 tablespoons and each is marked on
the wrapper. So easy to see. No conversion necessary.

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 11:22:51 AM UTC-4, graham wrote:
> > On 2020-04-07 6:51 a.m., F Murtz wrote:
> > > You yanks use mad measurements,I just found a crumble recipe, 12
> > > tablespoons of butter [impossible] they wanted it grated,it would need
> > > to be hard.
> > > butter should be by weight unless melted is specified and even if so it
> > > would be better by weight then melted.
> > > I realize that you also have a size which we do not have but once you
> > > know it is easy, but this spoon rubbish took me ages to figure out with
> > > google
> > > Can any one explain how this spoonful of butter started?
> >
> > The other day I made a couple of kg of bread dough from a newly opened
> > bag of flour.
> > I used a 250ml measuring cup as a handy scoop to put the flour into a
> > bowl on the scale and was astounded when it weighed 175g. A lot of US
> > recipes use a 4oz/114g equivalence for a US 236ml cup but as many
> > devotees of weighing will attest, it all depends on how you fill the cup.
> > That 175g measure equates to 168g for a 236ml US cup.
> > I then used a whisk to stir up the flour in the bag and spooned the
> > flour to fill the cup. That weighed 134g (126g US).
> > No wonder my elderly neighbour complained that she couldn't make decent
> > pastry as she used volume measure.
>
> I favor appropriate technology for the task. Volumetric measurements
> are fine for crumble, chocolate chip cookies, brownies, and a host
> of other things. I use mass for pizza dough. If I made bread, I'd
> use mass for that, too.

I remember that many recipes using flour in volume (like one cup
of flour) always said to sift your flour first to make that one
cup less flour. I've never done it and have never had a problem
with volume vs weight measures for anything.

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 9:23:48 AM UTC-4, F Murtz wrote:
> On 07/04/20 22:58, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 8:51:21 AM UTC-4, F Murtz wrote:
> >> You yanks use mad measurements,I just found a crumble recipe, 12
> >> tablespoons of butter [impossible] they wanted it grated,it would need
> >> to be hard.
> >> butter should be by weight unless melted is specified and even if so it
> >> would be better by weight then melted.
> >
> > 12 tablespoons is 1.5 sticks of butter in the configuration most
> > commonly sold in U.S. markets. The paper wrappers are marked in
> > tablespoon increments. One stick of butter is 0.25 pound.
> >
> >> I realize that you also have a size which we do not have but once you
> >> know it is easy, but this spoon rubbish took me ages to figure out with
> >> google
> >> Can any one explain how this spoonful of butter started?
> >
> > Home cooks in the U.S. don't weigh their ingredients. Stick to Euro
> > recipes if volumetric measurements bother you.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
> >
> Still mad to me.

How nice for you.

Here's a big reason we use volumetric measurements:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fannie_Farmer#Cookbook_fame>

Cindy Hamilton

On 2020-04-07 6:51 a.m., F Murtz wrote:
> You yanks use mad measurements,I just found a crumble recipe, 12
> tablespoons of butter [impossible] they wanted it grated,it would need
> to be hard.
> butter should be by weight unless melted is specified and even if so it
> would be better by weight then melted.
> I realize that you also have a size which we do not have but once you
> know it is easy, but this spoon rubbish took me ages to figure out with
> google
> Can any one explain how this spoonful of butter started?

The other day I made a couple of kg of bread dough from a newly opened
bag of flour.
I used a 250ml measuring cup as a handy scoop to put the flour into a
bowl on the scale and was astounded when it weighed 175g. A lot of US
recipes use a 4oz/114g equivalence for a US 236ml cup but as many
devotees of weighing will attest, it all depends on how you fill the cup.
That 175g measure equates to 168g for a 236ml US cup.
I then used a whisk to stir up the flour in the bag and spooned the
flour to fill the cup. That weighed 134g (126g US).
No wonder my elderly neighbour complained that she couldn't make decent
pastry as she used volume measure.

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 11:22:51 AM UTC-4, graham wrote:
> On 2020-04-07 6:51 a.m., F Murtz wrote:
> > You yanks use mad measurements,I just found a crumble recipe, 12
> > tablespoons of butter [impossible] they wanted it grated,it would need
> > to be hard.
> > butter should be by weight unless melted is specified and even if so it
> > would be better by weight then melted.
> > I realize that you also have a size which we do not have but once you
> > know it is easy, but this spoon rubbish took me ages to figure out with
> > google
> > Can any one explain how this spoonful of butter started?
>
> The other day I made a couple of kg of bread dough from a newly opened
> bag of flour.
> I used a 250ml measuring cup as a handy scoop to put the flour into a
> bowl on the scale and was astounded when it weighed 175g. A lot of US
> recipes use a 4oz/114g equivalence for a US 236ml cup but as many
> devotees of weighing will attest, it all depends on how you fill the cup.
> That 175g measure equates to 168g for a 236ml US cup.
> I then used a whisk to stir up the flour in the bag and spooned the
> flour to fill the cup. That weighed 134g (126g US).
> No wonder my elderly neighbour complained that she couldn't make decent
> pastry as she used volume measure.

I favor appropriate technology for the task. Volumetric measurements
are fine for crumble, chocolate chip cookies, brownies, and a host
of other things. I use mass for pizza dough. If I made bread, I'd
use mass for that, too.

Cindy Hamilton

On 2020-04-07 11:22 a.m., graham wrote:

> The other day I made a couple of kg of bread dough from a newly opened
> bag of flour.
> I used a 250ml measuring cup as a handy scoop to put the flour into a
> bowl on the scale and was astounded when it weighed 175g. A lot of US
> recipes use a 4oz/114g equivalence for a US 236ml cup but as many
> devotees of weighing will attest, it all depends on how you fill the cup.
> That 175g measure equates to 168g for a 236ml US cup.
> I then used a whisk to stir up the flour in the bag and spooned the
> flour to fill the cup. That weighed 134g (126g US).
> No wonder my elderly neighbour complained that she couldn't make decent
> pastry as she used volume measure.


I usually make pretty good pastry. I always measure the ingredients
going into the mixing bowl by volume. What doesn't get measured is the
flour I throw on the pastry cloth, the roller and on top of the bowl of
dough that is getting rolled. I don't think bread makers measure their
bench flour either. That's why I wonder why the concern about the exact
weight of flour that goes into the batch when there is the variable
amount used later.

On 2020-04-07 9:53 a.m., Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2020-04-07 11:22 a.m., graham wrote:
>
>> The other day I made a couple of kg of bread dough from a newly opened
>> bag of flour.
>> I used a 250ml measuring cup as a handy scoop to put the flour into a
>> bowl on the scale and was astounded when it weighed 175g. A lot of US
>> recipes use a 4oz/114g equivalence for a US 236ml cup but as many
>> devotees of weighing will attest, it all depends on how you fill the cup.
>> That 175g measure equates to 168g for a 236ml US cup.
>> I then used a whisk to stir up the flour in the bag and spooned the
>> flour to fill the cup. That weighed 134g (126g US).
>> No wonder my elderly neighbour complained that she couldn't make
>> decent pastry as she used volume measure.
>
>
> I usually make pretty good pastry. I always measure the ingredients
> going into the mixing bowl by volume.Â* What doesn't get measured is the
> flour I throw on the pastry cloth, the roller and on top of the bowl of
> dough that is getting rolled. I don't think bread makers measure their
> bench flour either.Â* That's why I wonder why the concern about the exact
> weight of flour that goes into the batch when there is the variable
> amount used later.

You always make this same comment Dave! If you are using so much bench
flour that the recipe is affected, you are using waaaay too much!

On 2020-04-07 12:01 p.m., graham wrote:
> On 2020-04-07 9:53 a.m., Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2020-04-07 11:22 a.m., graham wrote:

>>
>> I usually make pretty good pastry. I always measure the ingredients
>> going into the mixing bowl by volume.Â* What doesn't get measured is
>> the flour I throw on the pastry cloth, the roller and on top of the
>> bowl of dough that is getting rolled. I don't think bread makers
>> measure their bench flour either.Â* That's why I wonder why the concern
>> about the exact weight of flour that goes into the batch when there is
>> the variable amount used later.
>
> You always make this same comment Dave! If you are using so much bench
> flour that the recipe is affected, you are using waaaay too much!


Yes. I have made this comment before, just as others comment how weight
measurements and more accurate than volume. I wouldn't say that I am
using so much that the recipe is affected. I use enough to stop the
dough from sticking to the rolling pin and the pastry cloth. It
invariably gets pressed into the dough, and it was not measured.

On 08/04/20 01:15, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 9:23:48 AM UTC-4, F Murtz wrote:
>> On 07/04/20 22:58, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 8:51:21 AM UTC-4, F Murtz wrote:
>>>> You yanks use mad measurements,I just found a crumble recipe, 12
>>>> tablespoons of butter [impossible] they wanted it grated,it would need
>>>> to be hard.
>>>> butter should be by weight unless melted is specified and even if so it
>>>> would be better by weight then melted.
>>>
>>> 12 tablespoons is 1.5 sticks of butter in the configuration most
>>> commonly sold in U.S. markets. The paper wrappers are marked in
>>> tablespoon increments. One stick of butter is 0.25 pound.
>>>
>>>> I realize that you also have a size which we do not have but once you
>>>> know it is easy, but this spoon rubbish took me ages to figure out with
>>>> google
>>>> Can any one explain how this spoonful of butter started?
>>>
>>> Home cooks in the U.S. don't weigh their ingredients. Stick to Euro
>>> recipes if volumetric measurements bother you.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>> Still mad to me.
>
> How nice for you.
>
> Here's a big reason we use volumetric measurements:
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fannie_Farmer#Cookbook_fame>
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
So I think I might start a new system with as much sense,I am going to
sell my butter in logs with them marked off in thimbles :]

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 12:35:40 PM UTC-4, F Murtz wrote:
> On 08/04/20 01:15, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 9:23:48 AM UTC-4, F Murtz wrote:
> >> On 07/04/20 22:58, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 8:51:21 AM UTC-4, F Murtz wrote:
> >>>> You yanks use mad measurements,I just found a crumble recipe, 12
> >>>> tablespoons of butter [impossible] they wanted it grated,it would need
> >>>> to be hard.
> >>>> butter should be by weight unless melted is specified and even if so it
> >>>> would be better by weight then melted.
> >>>
> >>> 12 tablespoons is 1.5 sticks of butter in the configuration most
> >>> commonly sold in U.S. markets. The paper wrappers are marked in
> >>> tablespoon increments. One stick of butter is 0.25 pound.
> >>>
> >>>> I realize that you also have a size which we do not have but once you
> >>>> know it is easy, but this spoon rubbish took me ages to figure out with
> >>>> google
> >>>> Can any one explain how this spoonful of butter started?
> >>>
> >>> Home cooks in the U.S. don't weigh their ingredients. Stick to Euro
> >>> recipes if volumetric measurements bother you.
> >>>
> >>> Cindy Hamilton
> >>>
> >> Still mad to me.
> >
> > How nice for you.
> >
> > Here's a big reason we use volumetric measurements:
> >
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fannie_Farmer#Cookbook_fame>
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
> >
> So I think I might start a new system with as much sense,I am going to
> sell my butter in logs with them marked off in thimbles :]

Our system makes sense for the U.S.

Look, I'd like to go SI as much as the next thinking American. But we've
got what we've got, and your whining isn't going to change the way our
recipes are written.

Perhaps you should turn your considerable intelligence to writing an app
that will automatically and completely convert any U.S. recipe into
accurate SI measurements.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to relabel the speedometer in my car
to furlongs per fortnight.

Cindy Hamilton

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 10:39:10 AM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 11:22:51 AM UTC-4, graham wrote:
>
> > The other day I made a couple of kg of bread dough from a newly opened
> > bag of flour.
> > I used a 250ml measuring cup as a handy scoop to put the flour into a
> > bowl on the scale and was astounded when it weighed 175g. A lot of US
> > recipes use a 4oz/114g equivalence for a US 236ml cup but as many
> > devotees of weighing will attest, it all depends on how you fill the cup.
> > That 175g measure equates to 168g for a 236ml US cup.
> > I then used a whisk to stir up the flour in the bag and spooned the
> > flour to fill the cup. That weighed 134g (126g US).
> > No wonder my elderly neighbour complained that she couldn't make decent
> > pastry as she used volume measure.
>
> I favor appropriate technology for the task. Volumetric measurements
> are fine for crumble, chocolate chip cookies, brownies, and a host
> of other things. I use mass for pizza dough. If I made bread, I'd
> use mass for that, too.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
I'm no baker even by mud pie makers standards but I've watched enough baking
shows to know that for bread they *always* advocate weighing your ingredients.
But for cookies, pies and such the regular measuring cup method has worked
wonders for years. And if F Murtz is so disconcerted by the measurements
for a simple American recipe I'd suggest s/he pass on by any recipes from
the other side of the pond.

On 2020-04-07 10:34 a.m., Sqwertz wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 09:22:45 -0600, graham wrote:
>
>> The other day I made a couple of kg of bread dough from a newly opened
>> bag of flour.
>
> You have flour!?!?!?
>
> What a Jerk!
>
> -sw
>
What a strange and unnecessary comment!
I had stocked up when I needed flour, and before the mad rush that
cleared out the supermarkets, because I bake bread on a regular basis.
So, va-te-faire engrosser!

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 11:35:40 AM UTC-5, F Murtz wrote:
>
> So I think I might start a new system with as much sense,I am going to
> sell my butter in logs with them marked off in thimbles :]
>
No, you just need to pick up a pound of American butter available in every
single grocery store and many curbside markets here. Open the package and
take out one stick (the weight of that stick will be 4 ounces) and look at
the measurements clearly given on every single stick in the package.

It not hard to cut off a tablespoon of butter from that stick or even to
halve that tablespoon. It can't be that difficult to guestimate a tablespoon
or even a teaspoon of butter from what's available in your kitchen in your
country if you're a moderate cook.

On 2020-04-07 10:49 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 12:35:40 PM UTC-4, F Murtz wrote:
>> On 08/04/20 01:15, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 9:23:48 AM UTC-4, F Murtz wrote:
>>>> On 07/04/20 22:58, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 8:51:21 AM UTC-4, F Murtz wrote:
>>>>>> You yanks use mad measurements,I just found a crumble recipe, 12
>>>>>> tablespoons of butter [impossible] they wanted it grated,it would need
>>>>>> to be hard.
>>>>>> butter should be by weight unless melted is specified and even if so it
>>>>>> would be better by weight then melted.
>>>>>
>>>>> 12 tablespoons is 1.5 sticks of butter in the configuration most
>>>>> commonly sold in U.S. markets. The paper wrappers are marked in
>>>>> tablespoon increments. One stick of butter is 0.25 pound.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I realize that you also have a size which we do not have but once you
>>>>>> know it is easy, but this spoon rubbish took me ages to figure out with
>>>>>> google
>>>>>> Can any one explain how this spoonful of butter started?
>>>>>
>>>>> Home cooks in the U.S. don't weigh their ingredients. Stick to Euro
>>>>> recipes if volumetric measurements bother you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>>
>>>> Still mad to me.
>>>
>>> How nice for you.
>>>
>>> Here's a big reason we use volumetric measurements:
>>>
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fannie_Farmer#Cookbook_fame>
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>> So I think I might start a new system with as much sense,I am going to
>> sell my butter in logs with them marked off in thimbles :]
>
> Our system makes sense for the U.S.
>
> Look, I'd like to go SI as much as the next thinking American. But we've
> got what we've got, and your whining isn't going to change the way our
> recipes are written.
>
> Perhaps you should turn your considerable intelligence to writing an app
> that will automatically and completely convert any U.S. recipe into
> accurate SI measurements.
>
> Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to relabel the speedometer in my car
> to furlongs per fortnight.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
Actually, there have been many good baking books by US authors recently
that not only give the recipes in weights but also recommend the SI
system. It is so much easier to scale recipes using metric measurements.
Of course, they have to put the volume equivalents with the grams.
The odd one will give weights in oz but surely 75g is easier to measure
than 2 2/3oz, and I've seen some really odd fractions of ounces in some
recipes.

On 2020-04-07 10:53 a.m., wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 10:39:10 AM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 11:22:51 AM UTC-4, graham wrote:
>>
>>> The other day I made a couple of kg of bread dough from a newly opened
>>> bag of flour.
>>> I used a 250ml measuring cup as a handy scoop to put the flour into a
>>> bowl on the scale and was astounded when it weighed 175g. A lot of US
>>> recipes use a 4oz/114g equivalence for a US 236ml cup but as many
>>> devotees of weighing will attest, it all depends on how you fill the cup.
>>> That 175g measure equates to 168g for a 236ml US cup.
>>> I then used a whisk to stir up the flour in the bag and spooned the
>>> flour to fill the cup. That weighed 134g (126g US).
>>> No wonder my elderly neighbour complained that she couldn't make decent
>>> pastry as she used volume measure.
>>
>> I favor appropriate technology for the task. Volumetric measurements
>> are fine for crumble, chocolate chip cookies, brownies, and a host
>> of other things. I use mass for pizza dough. If I made bread, I'd
>> use mass for that, too.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
> I'm no baker even by mud pie makers standards but I've watched enough baking
> shows to know that for bread they *always* advocate weighing your ingredients.
> But for cookies, pies and such the regular measuring cup method has worked
> wonders for years. And if F Murtz is so disconcerted by the measurements
> for a simple American recipe I'd suggest s/he pass on by any recipes from
> the other side of the pond.
>
Funnily enough, Joan, you can make a *very* acceptable loaf of bread "by
eye" but for pastry and cakes, and even cookies, weighing is preferable,
even essential. As Emeril used to say: "Baking is chemistry" and he
always weighed when he baked on his TV show.

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 1:21:41 PM UTC-4, graham wrote:
> On 2020-04-07 10:53 a.m., wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 10:39:10 AM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 11:22:51 AM UTC-4, graham wrote:
> >>
> >>> The other day I made a couple of kg of bread dough from a newly opened
> >>> bag of flour.
> >>> I used a 250ml measuring cup as a handy scoop to put the flour into a
> >>> bowl on the scale and was astounded when it weighed 175g. A lot of US
> >>> recipes use a 4oz/114g equivalence for a US 236ml cup but as many
> >>> devotees of weighing will attest, it all depends on how you fill the cup.
> >>> That 175g measure equates to 168g for a 236ml US cup.
> >>> I then used a whisk to stir up the flour in the bag and spooned the
> >>> flour to fill the cup. That weighed 134g (126g US).
> >>> No wonder my elderly neighbour complained that she couldn't make decent
> >>> pastry as she used volume measure.
> >>
> >> I favor appropriate technology for the task. Volumetric measurements
> >> are fine for crumble, chocolate chip cookies, brownies, and a host
> >> of other things. I use mass for pizza dough. If I made bread, I'd
> >> use mass for that, too.
> >>
> >> Cindy Hamilton
> >>
> > I'm no baker even by mud pie makers standards but I've watched enough baking
> > shows to know that for bread they *always* advocate weighing your ingredients.
> > But for cookies, pies and such the regular measuring cup method has worked
> > wonders for years. And if F Murtz is so disconcerted by the measurements
> > for a simple American recipe I'd suggest s/he pass on by any recipes from
> > the other side of the pond.
> >
> Funnily enough, Joan, you can make a *very* acceptable loaf of bread "by
> eye" but for pastry and cakes, and even cookies, weighing is preferable,
> even essential.

Oh, c'mon. Cookies? Maybe some really fancy ones, but the most popular
cookie recipe in the U.S. (probably North America) doesn't care. I could
probably be off by 20% on flour for chocolate chip cookies, and they'd be
just fine.

Cindy Hamilton

On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 22:51:19 +1000, F Murtz >
wrote:

>You yanks use mad measurements,I just found a crumble recipe, 12
>tablespoons of butter [impossible] they wanted it grated,it would need
>to be hard.
>butter should be by weight unless melted is specified and even if so it
>would be better by weight then melted.
>I realize that you also have a size which we do not have but once you
>know it is easy, but this spoon rubbish took me ages to figure out with
>google
>Can any one explain how this spoonful of butter started?

Americans add a hardening inhibitor (E3245) to butter, so it stays
liquid. It's been tested extensively so it doesn't react with the
colourant (C213), the preservative (H3CO2), the foam suppressant
(liquid TNT) and the mold inhibitor (hydrolactase 2).

On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 9:23:48 AM UTC-4, F Murtz wrote:
>> >
>> >> I realize that you also have a size which we do not have but once you
>> >> know it is easy, but this spoon rubbish took me ages to figure out with
>> >> google
>> >> Can any one explain how this spoonful of butter started?
>> >
>> > Home cooks in the U.S. don't weigh their ingredients. Stick to Euro
>> > recipes if volumetric measurements bother you.
>> >
>> > Cindy Hamilton
>> >
>> Still mad to me.
>
>How nice for you.
>
>Here's a big reason we use volumetric measurements:
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fannie_Farmer#Cookbook_fame>

How many grams does a farmer's fanny convert to? I can't find it
anywhere.

On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 10:46:56 -0300, Gary > wrote:

>Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> On 2020-04-07 8:58 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 8:51:21 AM UTC-4, F Murtz wrote:
>> >> You yanks use mad measurements,I just found a crumble recipe, 12
>> >> tablespoons of butter [impossible] they wanted it grated,it would need
>> >> to be hard.
>> >> butter should be by weight unless melted is specified and even if so it
>> >> would be better by weight then melted.
>> >
>> > 12 tablespoons is 1.5 sticks of butter in the configuration most
>> > commonly sold in U.S. markets. The paper wrappers are marked in
>> > tablespoon increments. One stick of butter is 0.25 pound.
>>
>> I can't disagree with that. Sticks of butter are lesson common on this
>> side of the border, but there are some brands that come that way. I have
>> occasionally use recipes that call for one or a couple Tbls. butter, but
>> not 12.
>
>Most butter sold in the USA comes as:
>4 sticks in a one pound pack of butter.

And a pound isn't half a kilo. That would be too easy. No, it's 450
thirds of 239 fl. oz.

On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 11:53:01 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2020-04-07 11:22 a.m., graham wrote:
>
>> The other day I made a couple of kg of bread dough from a newly opened
>> bag of flour.
>> I used a 250ml measuring cup as a handy scoop to put the flour into a
>> bowl on the scale and was astounded when it weighed 175g. A lot of US
>> recipes use a 4oz/114g equivalence for a US 236ml cup but as many
>> devotees of weighing will attest, it all depends on how you fill the cup.
>> That 175g measure equates to 168g for a 236ml US cup.
>> I then used a whisk to stir up the flour in the bag and spooned the
>> flour to fill the cup. That weighed 134g (126g US).
>> No wonder my elderly neighbour complained that she couldn't make decent
>> pastry as she used volume measure.
>
>
>I usually make pretty good pastry.

Thanks, Dave. I made a note of that.

On 2020-04-07 12:34 p.m., Sqwertz wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 09:22:45 -0600, graham wrote:
>
>> The other day I made a couple of kg of bread dough from a newly opened
>> bag of flour.
>
> You have flour!?!?!?
>
> What a Jerk!
>
>

I did a Costco run today and my neighbour has asked me to pick up some
flour for him. There was lots of flour in stock. I grabbed a 20 kg bag
for him because it was only about $4 more than the 10 kg bag. He was
thrilled.

On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 10:56:37 -0600, graham > wrote:

>On 2020-04-07 10:34 a.m., Sqwertz wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 09:22:45 -0600, graham wrote:
>>
>>> The other day I made a couple of kg of bread dough from a newly opened
>>> bag of flour.
>>
>> You have flour!?!?!?
>>
>> What a Jerk!
>>
>> -sw
>>
>What a strange and unnecessary comment!
>I had stocked up when I needed flour, and before the mad rush that
>cleared out the supermarkets, because I bake bread on a regular basis.
>So, va-te-faire engrosser!

Go get pregnant? Va te faire enculer?

"Bruce" wrote in message ...

On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 10:56:37 -0600, graham > wrote:

>On 2020-04-07 10:34 a.m., Sqwertz wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 09:22:45 -0600, graham wrote:
>>
>>> The other day I made a couple of kg of bread dough from a newly opened
>>> bag of flour.
>>
>> You have flour!?!?!?
>>
>> What a Jerk!
>>
>> -sw
>>
>What a strange and unnecessary comment!
>I had stocked up when I needed flour, and before the mad rush that
>cleared out the supermarkets, because I bake bread on a regular basis.
>So, va-te-faire engrosser!

Go get pregnant? Va te faire enculer?

====

LOL



--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On 2020-04-07 12:54 p.m., Bruce wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 10:56:37 -0600, graham > wrote:
>
>> On 2020-04-07 10:34 a.m., Sqwertz wrote:
>>> On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 09:22:45 -0600, graham wrote:
>>>
>>>> The other day I made a couple of kg of bread dough from a newly opened
>>>> bag of flour.
>>>
>>> You have flour!?!?!?
>>>
>>> What a Jerk!
>>>
>>> -sw
>>>
>> What a strange and unnecessary comment!
>> I had stocked up when I needed flour, and before the mad rush that
>> cleared out the supermarkets, because I bake bread on a regular basis.
>> So, va-te-faire engrosser!
>
> Go get pregnant? Va te faire enculer?
>
I just think my version is more elegant:-)
I suppose I could have called him "un enculé"

On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 13:30:43 -0600, graham > wrote:

>On 2020-04-07 12:54 p.m., Bruce wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 10:56:37 -0600, graham > wrote:
>>
>>> On 2020-04-07 10:34 a.m., Sqwertz wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 09:22:45 -0600, graham wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The other day I made a couple of kg of bread dough from a newly opened
>>>>> bag of flour.
>>>>
>>>> You have flour!?!?!?
>>>>
>>>> What a Jerk!
>>>>
>>>> -sw
>>>>
>>> What a strange and unnecessary comment!
>>> I had stocked up when I needed flour, and before the mad rush that
>>> cleared out the supermarkets, because I bake bread on a regular basis.
>>> So, va-te-faire engrosser!
>>
>> Go get pregnant? Va te faire enculer?
>>
>I just think my version is more elegant:-)
>I suppose I could have called him "un enculé"

You could have. He's in love with Reuben.

On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 14:57:40 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 10:56:37 -0600, graham wrote:
>
>> On 2020-04-07 10:34 a.m., Sqwertz wrote:
>>> On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 09:22:45 -0600, graham wrote:
>>>
>>>> The other day I made a couple of kg of bread dough from a newly opened
>>>> bag of flour.
>>>
>>> You have flour!?!?!?
>>>
>>> What a Jerk!
>>>
>>> -sw
>>>
>> What a strange and unnecessary comment!
>
>American humor must be lost on those Canadians.
>
>> So, va-te-faire engrosser!
>
>A Good 'ol American style "**** you!" too!
>
>ObFood: Nobody in my city has been able to buy flour for over 3
>weeks. And now ass yeast to that list.

Ass yeast, eew.

On 4/7/2020 1:52 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 1:21:41 PM UTC-4, graham wrote:
>> On 2020-04-07 10:53 a.m., wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 10:39:10 AM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 11:22:51 AM UTC-4, graham wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The other day I made a couple of kg of bread dough from a newly opened
>>>>> bag of flour.
>>>>> I used a 250ml measuring cup as a handy scoop to put the flour into a
>>>>> bowl on the scale and was astounded when it weighed 175g. A lot of US
>>>>> recipes use a 4oz/114g equivalence for a US 236ml cup but as many
>>>>> devotees of weighing will attest, it all depends on how you fill the cup.
>>>>> That 175g measure equates to 168g for a 236ml US cup.
>>>>> I then used a whisk to stir up the flour in the bag and spooned the
>>>>> flour to fill the cup. That weighed 134g (126g US).
>>>>> No wonder my elderly neighbour complained that she couldn't make decent
>>>>> pastry as she used volume measure.
>>>>
>>>> I favor appropriate technology for the task. Volumetric measurements
>>>> are fine for crumble, chocolate chip cookies, brownies, and a host
>>>> of other things. I use mass for pizza dough. If I made bread, I'd
>>>> use mass for that, too.
>>>>
>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>
>>> I'm no baker even by mud pie makers standards but I've watched enough baking
>>> shows to know that for bread they *always* advocate weighing your ingredients.
>>> But for cookies, pies and such the regular measuring cup method has worked
>>> wonders for years. And if F Murtz is so disconcerted by the measurements
>>> for a simple American recipe I'd suggest s/he pass on by any recipes from
>>> the other side of the pond.
>>>
>> Funnily enough, Joan, you can make a *very* acceptable loaf of bread "by
>> eye" but for pastry and cakes, and even cookies, weighing is preferable,
>> even essential.
>
> Oh, c'mon. Cookies? Maybe some really fancy ones, but the most popular
> cookie recipe in the U.S. (probably North America) doesn't care. I could
> probably be off by 20% on flour for chocolate chip cookies, and they'd be
> just fine.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
Wait, you don't count out the chocolate chips?

I can see the importance of accuracy for repeatability, especially in a
commercial setting. Weight is marginally more accurate than volume.
For the typical home baker no one is going to know if you were off a
bit. A few moths back my daughter made my favorite cake for my birthday
and missed putting in the milk. Sure, it was different but still pretty
good as it has a lot of butter in it to work.

On 4/7/2020 12:17 PM, graham wrote:
> On 2020-04-07 10:49 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 12:35:40 PM UTC-4, F Murtz wrote:
>>> On 08/04/20 01:15, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 9:23:48 AM UTC-4, F Murtz wrote:
>>>>> On 07/04/20 22:58, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 8:51:21 AM UTC-4, F Murtz wrote:
>>>>>>> You yanks use mad measurements,I just found a crumble recipe, 12
>>>>>>> tablespoons of butter [impossible] they wanted it grated,it
>>>>>>> would need
>>>>>>> to be hard.
>>>>>>> butter should be by weight unless melted is specified and even
>>>>>>> if so it
>>>>>>> would be better by weight then melted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 12 tablespoons is 1.5 sticks of butter in the configuration most
>>>>>> commonly sold in U.S. markets.Â* The paper wrappers are marked in
>>>>>> tablespoon increments.Â* One stick of butter is 0.25 pound.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I realize that you also have a size which we do not have but
>>>>>>> once you
>>>>>>> know it is easy, but this spoon rubbish took me ages to figure
>>>>>>> out with
>>>>>>> google
>>>>>>> Can any one explain how this spoonful of butter started?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Home cooks in the U.S. don't weigh their ingredients. Stick to Euro
>>>>>> recipes if volumetric measurements bother you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>>>
>>>>> Still mad to me.
>>>>
>>>> How nice for you.
>>>>
>>>> Here's a big reason we use volumetric measurements:
>>>>
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fannie_Farmer#Cookbook_fame>
>>>>
>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>
>>> So I think I might start a new system with as much sense,I am going to
>>> sell my butter in logs with them marked off in thimblesÂ* :]
>>
>> Our system makes sense for the U.S.
>>
>> Look, I'd like to go SI as much as the next thinking American. But we've
>> got what we've got, and your whining isn't going to change the way our
>> recipes are written.
>>
>> Perhaps you should turn your considerable intelligence to writing an app
>> that will automatically and completely convert any U.S. recipe into
>> accurate SI measurements.
>>
>> Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to relabel the speedometer in my car
>> to furlongs per fortnight.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
> Actually, there have been many good baking books by US authors
> recently that not only give the recipes in weights but also recommend
> the SI system. It is so much easier to scale recipes using metric
> measurements. Of course, they have to put the volume equivalents with
> the grams.
> The odd one will give weights in oz but surely 75g is easier to
> measure than 2 2/3oz, and I've seen some really odd fractions of
> ounces in some recipes.

Â* I portion my bread dough out in grams ONLY because the scale I was
given for free is a gram scale . When I portion out meat for the freezer
I convert the number of ounces I want to grams ...

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 17:02:26 -0500, Terry Coombs >
wrote:


> * I portion my bread dough out in grams ONLY because the scale I was
>given for free is a gram scale . When I portion out meat for the freezer
>I convert the number of ounces I want to grams ...

My kitchen scale does ounces OR grams, just have to hold down a button
when turning it on.

I get recipes off the Net, and the best have both measurements, I only
bother with the gram only ones if they look really worth the effort

On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 15:40:26 -0700, Still Bud >
wrote:

>On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 17:02:26 -0500, Terry Coombs >
>wrote:
>
>
>> Â* I portion my bread dough out in grams ONLY because the scale I was
>>given for free is a gram scale . When I portion out meat for the freezer
>>I convert the number of ounces I want to grams ...
>
>My kitchen scale does ounces OR grams, just have to hold down a button
>when turning it on.
>
>I get recipes off the Net, and the best have both measurements, I only
>bother with the gram only ones if they look really worth the effort

There are also oodles of conversion sites.

On 2020-04-07 4:41 p.m., Bruce wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 15:40:26 -0700, Still Bud >
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 17:02:26 -0500, Terry Coombs >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Â* I portion my bread dough out in grams ONLY because the scale I was
>>> given for free is a gram scale . When I portion out meat for the freezer
>>> I convert the number of ounces I want to grams ...
>>
>> My kitchen scale does ounces OR grams, just have to hold down a button
>> when turning it on.
>>
>> I get recipes off the Net, and the best have both measurements, I only
>> bother with the gram only ones if they look really worth the effort
>
> There are also oodles of conversion sites.
>
But stay clear of those operated by televangelists!

On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 16:49:49 -0600, graham > wrote:

>On 2020-04-07 4:41 p.m., Bruce wrote:
>> On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 15:40:26 -0700, Still Bud >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 17:02:26 -0500, Terry Coombs >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Â* I portion my bread dough out in grams ONLY because the scale I was
>>>> given for free is a gram scale . When I portion out meat for the freezer
>>>> I convert the number of ounces I want to grams ...
>>>
>>> My kitchen scale does ounces OR grams, just have to hold down a button
>>> when turning it on.
>>>
>>> I get recipes off the Net, and the best have both measurements, I only
>>> bother with the gram only ones if they look really worth the effort
>>
>> There are also oodles of conversion sites.
>>
>But stay clear of those operated by televangelists!

lol

On 2020-04-07 2:51 p.m., Sqwertz wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 14:57:40 -0500, Sqwertz wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 10:56:37 -0600, graham wrote:
>>
>>> On 2020-04-07 10:34 a.m., Sqwertz wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 09:22:45 -0600, graham wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The other day I made a couple of kg of bread dough from a newly opened
>>>>> bag of flour.
>>>>
>>>> You have flour!?!?!?
>>>>
>>>> What a Jerk!
>>>>
>>>> -sw
>>>>
>>> What a strange and unnecessary comment!
>>
>> American humor must be lost on those Canadians.
>>
>>> So, va-te-faire engrosser!
>>
>> A Good 'ol American style "**** you!" too!
>>
>> ObFood: Nobody in my city has been able to buy flour for over 3
>> weeks. And now ass yeast to that list.
>
> "Add", not "ass". Sorry - That was a Freudian typo for you Graham
> Cracker.
>
> -sw
>
But I'm a Jungian:-)

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 2:46:13 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 22:51:19 +1000, F Murtz >
> wrote:
>
> >You yanks use mad measurements,I just found a crumble recipe, 12
> >tablespoons of butter [impossible] they wanted it grated,it would need
> >to be hard.
> >butter should be by weight unless melted is specified and even if so it
> >would be better by weight then melted.
> >I realize that you also have a size which we do not have but once you
> >know it is easy, but this spoon rubbish took me ages to figure out with
> >google
> >Can any one explain how this spoonful of butter started?
>
> Americans add a hardening inhibitor (E3245) to butter, so it stays
> liquid. It's been tested extensively so it doesn't react with the
> colourant (C213), the preservative (H3CO2), the foam suppressant
> (liquid TNT) and the mold inhibitor (hydrolactase 2).

OK. You made me look.

I have 3 brands of butter in my freezer: Land O' Lakes (big midwestern dairy co-op), Cabot (NY-New England dairy co-op) and Market Basket store brand. All are commodity butters and are widely sold here in New England USA.

The ingredients panel on all three say, "Cream (milk), salt." The unsalted box just says, "Cream (milk)."

--
Silvar Beitel

Silvar Beitel wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 2:46:13 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>> On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 22:51:19 +1000, F Murtz >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You yanks use mad measurements,I just found a crumble recipe, 12
>>> tablespoons of butter [impossible] they wanted it grated,it would need
>>> to be hard.
>>> butter should be by weight unless melted is specified and even if so it
>>> would be better by weight then melted.
>>> I realize that you also have a size which we do not have but once you
>>> know it is easy, but this spoon rubbish took me ages to figure out with
>>> google
>>> Can any one explain how this spoonful of butter started?
>>
>> Americans add a hardening inhibitor (E3245) to butter, so it stays
>> liquid. It's been tested extensively so it doesn't react with the
>> colourant (C213), the preservative (H3CO2), the foam suppressant
>> (liquid TNT) and the mold inhibitor (hydrolactase 2).
>
> OK. You made me look.
>
> I have 3 brands of butter in my freezer: Land O' Lakes (big midwestern dairy co-op), Cabot (NY-New England dairy co-op) and Market Basket store brand. All are commodity butters and are widely sold here in New England USA.
>
> The ingredients panel on all three say, "Cream (milk), salt." The unsalted box just says, "Cream (milk)."
>

Druce is just sniffing yer ass. He makes most of this rubbish up.

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 2:51:21 AM UTC-10, F Murtz wrote:
> You yanks use mad measurements,I just found a crumble recipe, 12
> tablespoons of butter [impossible] they wanted it grated,it would need
> to be hard.
> butter should be by weight unless melted is specified and even if so it
> would be better by weight then melted.
> I realize that you also have a size which we do not have but once you
> know it is easy, but this spoon rubbish took me ages to figure out with
> google
> Can any one explain how this spoonful of butter started?

The trouble with grams measurements is that you need to have a precision digital scale. For liquids, it's probably more precise to use volume measurements, in which case, mLs would be more precise.

12 tablespoons of butter is indeed an awkward measurement. 170 grams or 1 and a half sticks of butter makes more sense. Perhaps your recipe was converted by a conversion bot. The bots have a lot to learn about how humans do things. OTOH, a great many of the recipes on the internet are suspect. "12 tablespoons of butter" should have sent up a red flag way high.