On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 05:58:08 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>Hank Rogers wrote:
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> > Are you aware that gated communities are a perfectly rational response
>> > to a justifiable fear of home invasion? One million home invasions take
>> > place every year, and 27% of those result in homeowner injury.
>
>> > Gated communities are, of course, not the only rational response. My
>> > husband keeps a gun on hand (but locks it away when we both are away
>> > from the house).
>>
>> Oh hush. You know perfectly well how sensitive bruce is. And he is
>> not allowed to have a firearm, so don't even mention stuff like that.
>>
>> Be nice!
>
>LOL. Probably true. He's totally P-Whipped. No longer allowed to
>eat meat and not allowed to have a gun. That's what *love* does
>to many men, sadly.

Thanks for caring.

wrote:
>
> The other place where gated communities are common is South Africa. I
> did read an article recently (think it was in the Guardian) about how
> the NRA is in financial trouble. That would be good if they lost
> their stranglehold on the gun situation in the USA.

I have to disagree again with you Lucretia. Look at history. Once
your government makes all guns illegal, they have total control
over the population except for the bad guys. Even the bad guys
will still get their guns - they will just cost more to buy on
the black market.

Guns used in crimes are a very small percentage of the total gun
owners. A criminal would think twice about breaking into a house
that has a NRA sticker near the door or windows.

Remember too - I don't own any firearms. I like to shoot them but
ranges are too far from me here to warrant buying one for that. I
don't feel any urgency to buy one for protection either. That
said, if I heard someone breaking into my house one night, it
sure would be comforting to have a nice backup rather than a
hunting knife.

Firearms are here to stay regardless of new restrictive laws.
Wrong to take them away from the "good guys" that only shoot
people in self defense. Better to make more harsh penalties for
using one to commit a crime.

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 6:19:40 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 03:05:50 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 3:45:53 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> >> On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 12:37:42 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >It's not fear in our case. It's being prepared. We'd feel pretty stupid
> >> >if someone broke in, raped me and trashed the house because we don't have
> >> >anything worth stealing, just because we couldn't get to the gun locker
> >> >in time to say "I'm armed. Leave the house now."
> >>
> >> Yes, it's being prepared. It's also fear. If it's justified fear,
> >> that's even worse. Aren't you in Michigan? I thought that was one of
> >> the more civilised parts.
> >
> >Crime can happen anywhere. It's most prevalent where people are
> >crammed together like rats in a cage, but everyplace where there
> >are people, there is crime.
>
> Y'all paint a picture of a country where every retard and petty
> criminal can get a gun. And then all innocent, decent people get
> scared and also have to get a gun so they can defend themselves when
> the perp comes into their house. And then you call that the land of
> the free. What a nuthouse.

You're more afraid of guns than I am of criminals.

Cindy Hamilton

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:22:58 -0400, Gary > wrote:

wrote:
>>
>> The other place where gated communities are common is South Africa. I
>> did read an article recently (think it was in the Guardian) about how
>> the NRA is in financial trouble. That would be good if they lost
>> their stranglehold on the gun situation in the USA.
>
>I have to disagree again with you Lucretia. Look at history. Once
>your government makes all guns illegal, they have total control
>over the population except for the bad guys. Even the bad guys
>will still get their guns - they will just cost more to buy on
>the black market.
>
>Guns used in crimes are a very small percentage of the total gun
>owners. A criminal would think twice about breaking into a house
>that has a NRA sticker near the door or windows.
>
>Remember too - I don't own any firearms. I like to shoot them but
>ranges are too far from me here to warrant buying one for that. I
>don't feel any urgency to buy one for protection either. That
>said, if I heard someone breaking into my house one night, it
>sure would be comforting to have a nice backup rather than a
>hunting knife.
>
>Firearms are here to stay regardless of new restrictive laws.
>Wrong to take them away from the "good guys" that only shoot
>people in self defense. Better to make more harsh penalties for
>using one to commit a crime.

It's very simple. The US has the most relaxed gun laws of the western
world. And wayyyy more gun deaths than any other western country.
Enough said.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 03:27:11 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 6:19:40 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 03:05:50 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 3:45:53 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 12:37:42 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >It's not fear in our case. It's being prepared. We'd feel pretty stupid
>> >> >if someone broke in, raped me and trashed the house because we don't have
>> >> >anything worth stealing, just because we couldn't get to the gun locker
>> >> >in time to say "I'm armed. Leave the house now."
>> >>
>> >> Yes, it's being prepared. It's also fear. If it's justified fear,
>> >> that's even worse. Aren't you in Michigan? I thought that was one of
>> >> the more civilised parts.
>> >
>> >Crime can happen anywhere. It's most prevalent where people are
>> >crammed together like rats in a cage, but everyplace where there
>> >are people, there is crime.
>>
>> Y'all paint a picture of a country where every retard and petty
>> criminal can get a gun. And then all innocent, decent people get
>> scared and also have to get a gun so they can defend themselves when
>> the perp comes into their house. And then you call that the land of
>> the free. What a nuthouse.
>
>You're more afraid of guns than I am of criminals.

I never even think about guns. Except when I talk to an American.

Bruce wrote:
>
> We have a problem with ice addicts here.

What is an ice addict?

> But I haven't heard of people
> needing guns to protect themselves. But I believe y'all when you say
> it's different in the US. It must be pretty Wild West there with all
> those guns.

You've been watching too many old westerns.

Bruce wrote:
>
> The only way to get your mind of Sheldon is to comment on the US.
> You're quite the patriot, Hank. Time to pull out your lighter and
> start a Star Spangled Banner!

I think he lives in Canada, Bruce.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:41:02 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>Bruce wrote:
>>
>> We have a problem with ice addicts here.
>
>What is an ice addict?

I think you call it crystal meth.

>> But I haven't heard of people
>> needing guns to protect themselves. But I believe y'all when you say
>> it's different in the US. It must be pretty Wild West there with all
>> those guns.
>
>You've been watching too many old westerns.

Or I've been reading too much RFC. I mean, Cindy's husband's home
alone (oh no, an adult man, alone!) with a gun within reach in case
the perp invades their home! We don't even lock the doors at night.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:41:55 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>Bruce wrote:
>>
>> The only way to get your mind of Sheldon is to comment on the US.
>> You're quite the patriot, Hank. Time to pull out your lighter and
>> start a Star Spangled Banner!
>
>I think he lives in Canada, Bruce.

Hankie's Canadian? Fess up, Hank.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:22:58 -0400, Gary > wrote:

wrote:
>>
>> The other place where gated communities are common is South Africa. I
>> did read an article recently (think it was in the Guardian) about how
>> the NRA is in financial trouble. That would be good if they lost
>> their stranglehold on the gun situation in the USA.
>
>I have to disagree again with you Lucretia. Look at history. Once
>your government makes all guns illegal, they have total control
>over the population except for the bad guys. Even the bad guys
>will still get their guns - they will just cost more to buy on
>the black market.
>
>Guns used in crimes are a very small percentage of the total gun
>owners. A criminal would think twice about breaking into a house
>that has a NRA sticker near the door or windows.
>
>Remember too - I don't own any firearms. I like to shoot them but
>ranges are too far from me here to warrant buying one for that. I
>don't feel any urgency to buy one for protection either. That
>said, if I heard someone breaking into my house one night, it
>sure would be comforting to have a nice backup rather than a
>hunting knife.
>
>Firearms are here to stay regardless of new restrictive laws.
>Wrong to take them away from the "good guys" that only shoot
>people in self defense. Better to make more harsh penalties for
>using one to commit a crime.

You sound like the voice of the NRA!

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 08:02:05 -0300, wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:22:58 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>
wrote:
>>>
>>> The other place where gated communities are common is South Africa. I
>>> did read an article recently (think it was in the Guardian) about how
>>> the NRA is in financial trouble. That would be good if they lost
>>> their stranglehold on the gun situation in the USA.
>>
>>I have to disagree again with you Lucretia. Look at history. Once
>>your government makes all guns illegal, they have total control
>>over the population except for the bad guys. Even the bad guys
>>will still get their guns - they will just cost more to buy on
>>the black market.
>>
>>Guns used in crimes are a very small percentage of the total gun
>>owners. A criminal would think twice about breaking into a house
>>that has a NRA sticker near the door or windows.
>>
>>Remember too - I don't own any firearms. I like to shoot them but
>>ranges are too far from me here to warrant buying one for that. I
>>don't feel any urgency to buy one for protection either. That
>>said, if I heard someone breaking into my house one night, it
>>sure would be comforting to have a nice backup rather than a
>>hunting knife.
>>
>>Firearms are here to stay regardless of new restrictive laws.
>>Wrong to take them away from the "good guys" that only shoot
>>people in self defense. Better to make more harsh penalties for
>>using one to commit a crime.
>
>You sound like the voice of the NRA!

You'd think intelligent Americans would only have to look at the
statistics. I wonder how Europeans ever became Americans. It must have
been a similar process that turned a Hobbit into Gollum.

Bruce wrote:
>
> >LOL. Probably true. He's totally P-Whipped. No longer allowed to
> >eat meat and not allowed to have a gun. That's what *love* does
> >to many men, sadly.
>
> Thanks for caring.

I do sympathize with you.

Bruce wrote:
>
> Gary wrote:
> >Firearms are here to stay regardless of new restrictive laws.
> >Wrong to take them away from the "good guys" that only shoot
> >people in self defense. Better to make more harsh penalties for
> >using one to commit a crime.
>
> It's very simple. The US has the most relaxed gun laws of the western
> world. And wayyyy more gun deaths than any other western country.
> Enough said.

Remember too. Many of those gun deaths are the bad guys shooting
other bad guys late at night. That's not necessarily a bad thing,
imo.

You don't own a firearm and neither do I. Neither of us worry
about that, do we?

Most gun deaths happen during the dark hours when all the bad
people are out. I stay home then, safe, and watch westerns with
guns. lol

Bruce wrote:
>
> lucretia wrote:
> >You sound like the voice of the NRA!
>
> You'd think intelligent Americans would only have to look at the
> statistics. I wonder how Europeans ever became Americans. It must have
> been a similar process that turned a Hobbit into Gollum.

And honestly, you both sound very uneducated and naive.
My old Boy Scout motto: Be Prepared
It's just common sense.

Good people with guns don't go out killing others. Guns are not
the problem.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 08:42:38 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>Bruce wrote:
>>
>> lucretia wrote:
>> >You sound like the voice of the NRA!
>>
>> You'd think intelligent Americans would only have to look at the
>> statistics. I wonder how Europeans ever became Americans. It must have
>> been a similar process that turned a Hobbit into Gollum.
>
>And honestly, you both sound very uneducated and naive.
>My old Boy Scout motto: Be Prepared
>It's just common sense.
>
>Good people with guns don't go out killing others. Guns are not
>the problem.

Perhaps not but those good people with guns are often careless with
the guns and their kids wind up shooting other kids while they handle
the guns, also remember a case where the mum permitted to carry had
her toddler in the supermarket cart and toddler curiously takes gun
out of her purse and shoots her dead. Yes, it was an outside chance,
but it shouldn't have been able to happen. It's totally crazy IMO!

Bruce wrote:
>
> I mean, Cindy's husband's home
> alone (oh no, an adult man, alone!) with a gun within reach in case
> the perp invades their home! We don't even lock the doors at night.

Well, you definitely should lock your doors at night no matter
where you live. Don't be a fool.

wrote:
>
> Gary wrote:
> >Good people with guns don't go out killing others. Guns are not
> >the problem.
>
> Perhaps not but those good people with guns are often careless with
> the guns and their kids wind up shooting other kids while they handle
> the guns, also remember a case where the mum permitted to carry had
> her toddler in the supermarket cart and toddler curiously takes gun
> out of her purse and shoots her dead. Yes, it was an outside chance,
> but it shouldn't have been able to happen. It's totally crazy IMO!

Look at the stastistics of that rare thing happening.
Cars kill more people than guns. Make cars illegal?

In article >, says...

> Oh hush. You know perfectly well how sensitive bruce is. And he is
> not allowed to have a firearm, so don't even mention stuff like that.

<sigh> You are misinformed.

I know Australians AND many Brits who own legally licensed guns
(Ophelia, for example).

The NRA has spun gullible Americans fake news that "gun control" in
Australia and UK means people are "not allowed to have firearms", or
are "not allowed" to defend themselves, their family home and property
against intruders with whatever force is required, including lethal.

Janet UK

Janet wrote:
>
> In article >, says...
>
> > Oh hush. You know perfectly well how sensitive bruce is. And he is
> > not allowed to have a firearm, so don't even mention stuff like that.
>
> <sigh> You are misinformed.
>
> I know Australians AND many Brits who own legally licensed guns
> (Ophelia, for example).

That's the good people that own guns, Janet.

> The NRA has spun gullible Americans fake news that "gun control" in
> Australia and UK means people are "not allowed to have firearms", or
> are "not allowed" to defend themselves, their family home and property
> against intruders with whatever force is required, including lethal.

If you shoot an intruder, make sure they die inside your home.
Also make sure they carry a weapon. Plant one if necessary before
calling the police. Saves alot of legal trouble.

In article >, says...
>
> wrote:
> >
> > The other place where gated communities are common is South Africa. I
> > did read an article recently (think it was in the Guardian) about how
> > the NRA is in financial trouble. That would be good if they lost
> > their stranglehold on the gun situation in the USA.
>
> I have to disagree again with you Lucretia. Look at history. Once
> your government makes all guns illegal, they have total control
> over the population except for the bad guys.

Where's your imaginary country where "all guns are illegal", Gary?

> Guns used in crimes are a very small percentage of the total gun
> owners. A criminal would think twice about breaking into a house
> that has a NRA sticker near the door or windows.

Apparently not, in USA

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...not-stop-more-
crimes-evidence-shows/?redirect=1

"The claim that gun ownership stops crime is common in the U.S., and
that belief drives laws that make it easy to own and keep firearms.
But about 30 careful studies show more guns are linked to more crimes:
murders, rapes, and others."


Janet UK

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 6:45:09 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:41:02 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>
> >Bruce wrote:
> >>
> >> We have a problem with ice addicts here.
> >
> >What is an ice addict?
>
> I think you call it crystal meth.
>
> >> But I haven't heard of people
> >> needing guns to protect themselves. But I believe y'all when you say
> >> it's different in the US. It must be pretty Wild West there with all
> >> those guns.
> >
> >You've been watching too many old westerns.
>
> Or I've been reading too much RFC. I mean, Cindy's husband's home
> alone (oh no, an adult man, alone!) with a gun within reach in case
> the perp invades their home! We don't even lock the doors at night.

A physically disabled adult man.

There are plenty of places in the U.S. where you don't
have to lock the doors at night. I don't live there.

Cindy Hamilton

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 8:49:03 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 08:42:38 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>
> >Bruce wrote:
> >>
> >> lucretia wrote:
> >> >You sound like the voice of the NRA!
> >>
> >> You'd think intelligent Americans would only have to look at the
> >> statistics. I wonder how Europeans ever became Americans. It must have
> >> been a similar process that turned a Hobbit into Gollum.
> >
> >And honestly, you both sound very uneducated and naive.
> >My old Boy Scout motto: Be Prepared
> >It's just common sense.
> >
> >Good people with guns don't go out killing others. Guns are not
> >the problem.
>
> Perhaps not but those good people with guns are often careless with
> the guns and their kids wind up shooting other kids while they handle
> the guns, also remember a case where the mum permitted to carry had
> her toddler in the supermarket cart and toddler curiously takes gun
> out of her purse and shoots her dead. Yes, it was an outside chance,
> but it shouldn't have been able to happen. It's totally crazy IMO!

Oh, hell. Some woman in Texas killed her toddler
by playing chicken with her kids using an SUV. No guns
are necessary for the sufficiently stupid:

<https://apnews.com/4da71f14bd174c37adc06cd722758330>

Cindy Hamilton

On 2019-06-24 6:22 a.m., Gary wrote:
> wrote:
>>
>> The other place where gated communities are common is South Africa. I
>> did read an article recently (think it was in the Guardian) about how
>> the NRA is in financial trouble. That would be good if they lost
>> their stranglehold on the gun situation in the USA.
>
> I have to disagree again with you Lucretia. Look at history. Once
> your government makes all guns illegal, they have total control
> over the population except for the bad guys. Even the bad guys
> will still get their guns - they will just cost more to buy on
> the black market.
>


It is pretty sad that those who whine the most about guns are the same
people who are soft on crime. Handguns are legal here, but strictly
controlled and it is very rare that a legally licensed handgun owner
uses his gun in a crime. I can think of one incident more than 10 years
ago, and it stands out because is such a rare event. There are still
lots of shootings among young black gang members, non of whom have gun
licenses and would not be allowed to carry them around or to shoot
people even if they had licenses. The bleeding hearts are under the
impression that banning them from law abiding gun owners will make the
gun crime go away, that the criminals will suddenly realize that killing
is wrong. But for goodness sake, don't send them to jail for too long
because jail is not a deterrent.

One of the major pushes for stricter hand gun controls was an incident
where one girl was killed and another blinded when some young gangsta
fired a sawed off shotgun through a door. Sawed off shotguns were
already prohibited weapons here.



> Remember too - I don't own any firearms. I like to shoot them but
> ranges are too far from me here to warrant buying one for that. I
> don't feel any urgency to buy one for protection either.

I would not consider using a gun for home protection here. You can't do
that here. However, I do enjoy shooting. I trained as a weapons tech
in the reserves and always found firearms interesting. There is a range
about 10 miles and I have a membership and like to go out a couple times
a bunch. AAMOF I was thinking of going there today.



> Firearms are here to stay regardless of new restrictive laws.
> Wrong to take them away from the "good guys" that only shoot
> people in self defense. Better to make more harsh penalties for
> using one to commit a crime.

What???? Punish the people who commit crimes and get them off the street
when you could just slap law abiding people with more controls??

Janet wrote:
>
> "The claim that gun ownership stops crime is common in the U.S., and
> that belief drives laws that make it easy to own and keep firearms.
> But about 30 careful studies show more guns are linked to more crimes:
> murders, rapes, and others."

Here's a careful study for you, Janet. As you mentioned Ophelia
and her husband own legal guns. They use them for hunting as all
NICE people do.

That said, O hates you with a passion for all your past stalking
of her. Even nice people can snap sometimes. What if O came to
see you with her legal shotgun to end all of your stalking crap.
Even legal guns kill people.

No one should be restricted from owning a firearm.

Remember, most of your stastics of the US are night time bad guys
shooting other bad guys. The good gunowners mostly stay inside
their homes at night.

"Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
...

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 8:49:03 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 08:42:38 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>
> >Bruce wrote:
> >>
> >> lucretia wrote:
> >> >You sound like the voice of the NRA!
> >>
> >> You'd think intelligent Americans would only have to look at the
> >> statistics. I wonder how Europeans ever became Americans. It must have
> >> been a similar process that turned a Hobbit into Gollum.
> >
> >And honestly, you both sound very uneducated and naive.
> >My old Boy Scout motto: Be Prepared
> >It's just common sense.
> >
> >Good people with guns don't go out killing others. Guns are not
> >the problem.
>
> Perhaps not but those good people with guns are often careless with
> the guns and their kids wind up shooting other kids while they handle
> the guns, also remember a case where the mum permitted to carry had
> her toddler in the supermarket cart and toddler curiously takes gun
> out of her purse and shoots her dead. Yes, it was an outside chance,
> but it shouldn't have been able to happen. It's totally crazy IMO!

Oh, hell. Some woman in Texas killed her toddler
by playing chicken with her kids using an SUV. No guns
are necessary for the sufficiently stupid:

<https://apnews.com/4da71f14bd174c37adc06cd722758330>

Cindy Hamilton

===

OMG!!!

On 2019-06-24 9:48 a.m., Gary wrote:
> Janet wrote:

>> The NRA has spun gullible Americans fake news that "gun control" in
>> Australia and UK means people are "not allowed to have firearms", or
>> are "not allowed" to defend themselves, their family home and property
>> against intruders with whatever force is required, including lethal.
>
> If you shoot an intruder, make sure they die inside your home.
> Also make sure they carry a weapon. Plant one if necessary before
> calling the police. Saves alot of legal trouble.

Just remember that there can be fallout. Even if the punk was armed his
mama would be whining that he boy was a good boy who wouldn't never have
done that.

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> Just remember that there can be fallout. Even if the punk was armed his
> mama would be whining that he boy was a good boy who wouldn't never have
> done that.

You see that all the time and it's sickening to me. Grieving
family interviewed in their living room, always holding a cute
old picture of their rat-ass kid and crying that it's just not
fair. He was such a good boy. It's all more touchy-feely crap to
me. These criminals need to be celebrated when they die while
committing a crime. F them and their cute little young-kid
pictures.

In article >, says...
>
> Janet wrote:
> >
> > In article >, says...
> >
> > > Oh hush. You know perfectly well how sensitive bruce is. And he is
> > > not allowed to have a firearm, so don't even mention stuff like that.
> >
> > <sigh> You are misinformed.
> >
> > I know Australians AND many Brits who own legally licensed guns
> > (Ophelia, for example).
>
> That's the good people that own guns, Janet.
>
> > The NRA has spun gullible Americans fake news that "gun control" in
> > Australia and UK means people are "not allowed to have firearms", or
> > are "not allowed" to defend themselves, their family home and property
> > against intruders with whatever force is required, including lethal.
>
> If you shoot an intruder, make sure they die inside your home.
> Also make sure they carry a weapon. Plant one if necessary before
> calling the police. Saves alot of legal trouble.

None of that would be necessary here. The same law applies to unarmed
intruders carrying no weapon .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19886504

"What force does the law allow?

In England and Wales, anyone can use "reasonable" force to protect
themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime.
Householders are protected from prosecution as long as they act
"honestly and instinctively" in the heat of the moment. "Fine
judgements" over the level of force used are not expected, says the
Crown Prosecution Service.

What this means in practice is that someone can claim they attacked in
self-defence if they genuinely believed they were in peril - even if in
hindsight they were clearly wrong.

Victims do not have to wait to be attacked if they are in their home and
fear for themselves or others. These guidelines also apply if someone,
in the spur of the moment, picks up an item to use as a weapon. The law
very clearly says that a householder is not expected to weigh up the
arguments for and against in the heat of the moment - but they have to
show that their actions were reasonable in the moment.

"What is the situation if the intruder dies?

It is still lawful to act in reasonable self-defence, even if the
intruder dies as a result. "


Janet UK

On 2019-06-24 10:45 a.m., Gary wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> Just remember that there can be fallout. Even if the punk was armed his
>> mama would be whining that he boy was a good boy who wouldn't never have
>> done that.
>
> You see that all the time and it's sickening to me. Grieving
> family interviewed in their living room, always holding a cute
> old picture of their rat-ass kid and crying that it's just not
> fair. He was such a good boy. It's all more touchy-feely crap to
> me. These criminals need to be celebrated when they die while
> committing a crime. F them and their cute little young-kid
> pictures.
>

We saw that sort of thing in an incident where a young man was shot by a
cop. Cop just picked on the kid because he was walking down the middle
of the road and they showed photos of an innocent looking young kid
rather than more up to date photos of a large man who had just stolen
stuff from a convenience store and bullied the owner.

On 2019-06-24 10:48 a.m., Janet wrote:
> In article >, says...
>>
>> Janet wrote:
>>>
>>> In article >, says...
>>>
>>>> Oh hush. You know perfectly well how sensitive bruce is. And he is
>>>> not allowed to have a firearm, so don't even mention stuff like that.
>>>
>>> <sigh> You are misinformed.
>>>
>>> I know Australians AND many Brits who own legally licensed guns
>>> (Ophelia, for example).
>>
>> That's the good people that own guns, Janet.
>>
>>> The NRA has spun gullible Americans fake news that "gun control" in
>>> Australia and UK means people are "not allowed to have firearms", or
>>> are "not allowed" to defend themselves, their family home and property
>>> against intruders with whatever force is required, including lethal.
>>
>> If you shoot an intruder, make sure they die inside your home.
>> Also make sure they carry a weapon. Plant one if necessary before
>> calling the police. Saves alot of legal trouble.
>
> None of that would be necessary here. The same law applies to unarmed
> intruders carrying no weapon .
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19886504
>
> "What force does the law allow?
>
> In England and Wales, anyone can use "reasonable" force to protect
> themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime.
> Householders are protected from prosecution as long as they act
> "honestly and instinctively" in the heat of the moment. "Fine
> judgements" over the level of force used are not expected, says the
> Crown Prosecution Service.
>
> What this means in practice is that someone can claim they attacked in
> self-defence if they genuinely believed they were in peril - even if in
> hindsight they were clearly wrong.
>
> Victims do not have to wait to be attacked if they are in their home and
> fear for themselves or others. These guidelines also apply if someone,
> in the spur of the moment, picks up an item to use as a weapon. The law
> very clearly says that a householder is not expected to weigh up the
> arguments for and against in the heat of the moment - but they have to
> show that their actions were reasonable in the moment.
>
> "What is the situation if the intruder dies?
>
> It is still lawful to act in reasonable self-defence, even if the
> intruder dies as a result. "
>


I thought your laws were pretty much the same as ours. You are allowed
to protect yourself, but you are pretty much restricted to using only as
much force as required to deal with the threat you are facing. You
can't use lethal for someone just being there or stealing. You can just
someone who is attacking you with a weapon and you fear for your
life.... however... firearms have to be safely stored. If you have time
to go and get the gun, unlock it, find the ammunition and load it, then
you weren't in enough peril to justify using it.

In article >, says...
>
> Janet wrote:
> >
> > "The claim that gun ownership stops crime is common in the U.S., and
> > that belief drives laws that make it easy to own and keep firearms.
> > But about 30 careful studies show more guns are linked to more crimes:
> > murders, rapes, and others."
>
> Here's a careful study for you, Janet. As you mentioned Ophelia
> and her husband own legal guns. They use them for hunting as all
> NICE people do.
>
> That said, O hates you with a passion for all your past stalking
> of her.

I have never stalked her. That's her paranoid delusion.

RFC has recently seen her posting identical, repeated accusations to
and about Pamela. We're just two of numerous posters targeted by her in
the same way.



Janet UK

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 8:52:44 AM UTC-5, Janet wrote:
>
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...not-stop-more-
> crimes-evidence-shows/?redirect=1
>
> "The claim that gun ownership stops crime is common in the U.S., and
> that belief drives laws that make it easy to own and keep firearms.
> But about 30 careful studies show more guns are linked to more crimes:
> murders, rapes, and others."
>
>
> Janet UK
>
Gun ownership probably does not stop crime in the USA. But a well placed
bullet will stop THAT intruder from ever breaking in your house or anyone
else's house ever again.

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 9:22:12 AM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 8:49:03 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps not but those good people with guns are often careless with
> > the guns and their kids wind up shooting other kids while they handle
> > the guns, also remember a case where the mum permitted to carry had
> > her toddler in the supermarket cart and toddler curiously takes gun
> > out of her purse and shoots her dead. Yes, it was an outside chance,
> > but it shouldn't have been able to happen. It's totally crazy IMO!
>
> Oh, hell. Some woman in Texas killed her toddler
> by playing chicken with her kids using an SUV. No guns
> are necessary for the sufficiently stupid:
>
> <https://apnews.com/4da71f14bd174c37adc06cd722758330>
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
I read that over the week-end. It begs the question "How stupid can you be?"
In her case, exceeding stupid; bordering on retarded.

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 7:34:09 AM UTC-10, wrote:
> On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 8:52:44 AM UTC-5, Janet wrote:
> >
> > https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...not-stop-more-
> > crimes-evidence-shows/?redirect=1
> >
> > "The claim that gun ownership stops crime is common in the U.S., and
> > that belief drives laws that make it easy to own and keep firearms.
> > But about 30 careful studies show more guns are linked to more crimes:
> > murders, rapes, and others."
> >
> >
> > Janet UK
> >
> Gun ownership probably does not stop crime in the USA. But a well placed
> bullet will stop THAT intruder from ever breaking in your house or anyone
> else's house ever again.

A well placed bullet will stop a guy from ever testifying against you in a court of law too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Nf1zWJzTU

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 12:43:55 PM UTC-5, dsi1 wrote:
>
> On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 7:34:09 AM UTC-10, wrote:
> >
> > Gun ownership probably does not stop crime in the USA. But a well placed
> > bullet will stop THAT intruder from ever breaking in your house or anyone
> > else's house ever again.
>
> A well placed bullet will stop a guy from ever testifying against you in a court of law too!
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Nf1zWJzTU
>
Alright! I bet she didn't think that parrot would spill the beans and land
her stupid butt in prison. She should have gotten the death penalty.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 08:29:58 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>Bruce wrote:
>>
>> Gary wrote:
>> >Firearms are here to stay regardless of new restrictive laws.
>> >Wrong to take them away from the "good guys" that only shoot
>> >people in self defense. Better to make more harsh penalties for
>> >using one to commit a crime.
>>
>> It's very simple. The US has the most relaxed gun laws of the western
>> world. And wayyyy more gun deaths than any other western country.
>> Enough said.
>
>Remember too. Many of those gun deaths are the bad guys shooting
>other bad guys late at night. That's not necessarily a bad thing,
>imo.

No, I'm all for it.

>You don't own a firearm and neither do I. Neither of us worry
>about that, do we?

No.

>Most gun deaths happen during the dark hours when all the bad
>people are out. I stay home then, safe, and watch westerns with
>guns. lol

We'd need statistics that tell us how many gun deaths involve innocent
people.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:14:11 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>Bruce wrote:
>>
>> I mean, Cindy's husband's home
>> alone (oh no, an adult man, alone!) with a gun within reach in case
>> the perp invades their home! We don't even lock the doors at night.
>
>Well, you definitely should lock your doors at night no matter
>where you live. Don't be a fool.

They'll come in anyway. In summer our doors are open, but we have
screen doors against bugs , snakes etc. You only need a sharp knife to
make a hole in them and open the latch.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 14:34:16 +0100, Janet > wrote:

>In article >, says...
>
>> Oh hush. You know perfectly well how sensitive bruce is. And he is
>> not allowed to have a firearm, so don't even mention stuff like that.
>
> <sigh> You are misinformed.
>
> I know Australians AND many Brits who own legally licensed guns
>(Ophelia, for example).

Yes, I could have a gun if I wanted. I think I'd have to go to a short
gun handling class to get the permit. Or that was the case in
Tasmania.

> The NRA has spun gullible Americans fake news that "gun control" in
>Australia and UK means people are "not allowed to have firearms", or
>are "not allowed" to defend themselves, their family home and property
>against intruders with whatever force is required, including lethal.

Americans and "news" are a problematic combination.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 07:22:09 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 8:49:03 AM UTC-4, wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 08:42:38 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>>
>> >Bruce wrote:
>> >>
>> >> lucretia wrote:
>> >> >You sound like the voice of the NRA!
>> >>
>> >> You'd think intelligent Americans would only have to look at the
>> >> statistics. I wonder how Europeans ever became Americans. It must have
>> >> been a similar process that turned a Hobbit into Gollum.
>> >
>> >And honestly, you both sound very uneducated and naive.
>> >My old Boy Scout motto: Be Prepared
>> >It's just common sense.
>> >
>> >Good people with guns don't go out killing others. Guns are not
>> >the problem.
>>
>> Perhaps not but those good people with guns are often careless with
>> the guns and their kids wind up shooting other kids while they handle
>> the guns, also remember a case where the mum permitted to carry had
>> her toddler in the supermarket cart and toddler curiously takes gun
>> out of her purse and shoots her dead. Yes, it was an outside chance,
>> but it shouldn't have been able to happen. It's totally crazy IMO!
>
>Oh, hell. Some woman in Texas killed her toddler
>by playing chicken with her kids using an SUV. No guns
>are necessary for the sufficiently stupid:
>
><https://apnews.com/4da71f14bd174c37adc06cd722758330>
>
>Cindy Hamilton

Yes, I saw that - did you note how many kids had already been taken
from her? I could go with ordered tube tying there

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:36:46 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:

>On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 9:22:12 AM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>> On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 8:49:03 AM UTC-4, wrote:
>> >
>> > Perhaps not but those good people with guns are often careless with
>> > the guns and their kids wind up shooting other kids while they handle
>> > the guns, also remember a case where the mum permitted to carry had
>> > her toddler in the supermarket cart and toddler curiously takes gun
>> > out of her purse and shoots her dead. Yes, it was an outside chance,
>> > but it shouldn't have been able to happen. It's totally crazy IMO!
>>
>> Oh, hell. Some woman in Texas killed her toddler
>> by playing chicken with her kids using an SUV. No guns
>> are necessary for the sufficiently stupid:
>>
>> <https://apnews.com/4da71f14bd174c37adc06cd722758330>
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
>I read that over the week-end. It begs the question "How stupid can you be?"
>In her case, exceeding stupid; bordering on retarded.

I think from what I read she was mentally lacking but I also think,
given the number of children previously removed from her, there should
be enforced sterilisation.