I'm used to reading wine reviews that are essentially the description of
a fruit salad but today I read one that describes one of the flavour
notes as "singed bay leaf" (James Molesworth - Wine Spectator).
This must be the limit of pretentiousness!!!
So do I singe a bay leaf to find out what the hell he means or drink a
bottle?

On 2016-04-15, graham > wrote:
> I'm used to reading wine reviews that are essentially the description of
> a fruit salad but today I read one that describes one of the flavour
> notes as "singed bay leaf" (James Molesworth - Wine Spectator).
> This must be the limit of pretentiousness!!!
> So do I singe a bay leaf to find out what the hell he means or drink a
> bottle?

That's like when I went to a local winery to try their petite sarah.
The owner asked me what I was looking for. I told him I wanted a
"chewy" red. Another buyer --apparently looking to increase her
"pretentiousness"-- asked me if "chewy" was a proper wine tasting
term. Not knowing any better, I sed yes. Turns out I was right!

I think you can make up jes about any term and call it official. It's
been my experience, craft beers, cigars, and high quality coffees are
equally silly.

nb

On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 12:45:54 -0600, graham > wrote:

>I'm used to reading wine reviews that are essentially the description of
>a fruit salad but today I read one that describes one of the flavour
>notes as "singed bay leaf" (James Molesworth - Wine Spectator).
>This must be the limit of pretentiousness!!!
>So do I singe a bay leaf to find out what the hell he means or drink a
>bottle?

Drink a bottle and see, it's a no brainer choice

On 2016-04-15, > wrote:

> Drink a bottle and see, it's a no brainer choice

Works fer me.

I will NOT drink CA chards (chardonnays). Too "smoky". I prefer the
description, "like sucking ona Kingsford briquet".

nb

On 15 Apr 2016 20:22:27 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>I think you can make up jes about any term and call it official. It's
>been my experience, craft beers, cigars, and high quality coffees are
>equally silly.

Some ppl certainly take the descriptions to silly levels.

On 15/04/2016 2:23 PM, wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 12:45:54 -0600, graham > wrote:
>
>> I'm used to reading wine reviews that are essentially the description of
>> a fruit salad but today I read one that describes one of the flavour
>> notes as "singed bay leaf" (James Molesworth - Wine Spectator).
>> This must be the limit of pretentiousness!!!
>> So do I singe a bay leaf to find out what the hell he means or drink a
>> bottle?
>
> Drink a bottle and see, it's a no brainer choice
>
Not at $50!!!!
Graham

On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 15:25:47 -0600, graham > wrote:

>On 15/04/2016 2:23 PM, wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 12:45:54 -0600, graham > wrote:
>>
>>> I'm used to reading wine reviews that are essentially the description of
>>> a fruit salad but today I read one that describes one of the flavour
>>> notes as "singed bay leaf" (James Molesworth - Wine Spectator).
>>> This must be the limit of pretentiousness!!!
>>> So do I singe a bay leaf to find out what the hell he means or drink a
>>> bottle?
>>
>> Drink a bottle and see, it's a no brainer choice
>>
>Not at $50!!!!
>Graham

No, that's too pricey. I find I can be happy with far cheaper

On 2016-04-15 2:45 PM, graham wrote:
> I'm used to reading wine reviews that are essentially the description of
> a fruit salad but today I read one that describes one of the flavour
> notes as "singed bay leaf" (James Molesworth - Wine Spectator).
> This must be the limit of pretentiousness!!!
> So do I singe a bay leaf to find out what the hell he means or drink a
> bottle?

I agree with the part about it being pretentious. Unless he has a
reputation for exquisite taste and apt descriptions, I wouldn't bother
with his reviews or the wine.

On 2016-04-15 18:45:54 +0000, graham said:

> I'm used to reading wine reviews that are essentially the description
> of a fruit salad but today I read one that describes one of the flavour
> notes as "singed bay leaf" (James Molesworth - Wine Spectator).
> This must be the limit of pretentiousness!!!
> So do I singe a bay leaf to find out what the hell he means or drink a bottle?

"Singed bay leaf", pretentious? Hardly. It at least describes tastes:
bay leaf with a charred quality. Those a flavors. How about
"arrogant", or even "pretentious" as a flavor or nose descriptor?

I read a wine spectator remark that used the word "flinty" about 15
years ago. We thought that was pretty funny and used it a lot for
laughs. Remember those toy robots and space ships and the like in the
50's that had a flint in them and made sparks when their wheels were
turned? They smelled just the same as a wine I had about five years
later: flinty. So then I went to "presumptuous" as my favorite nebulous
descriptor.

On 2016-04-15 20:55:33 +0000, notbob said:

> On 2016-04-15, > wrote:
>
>> Drink a bottle and see, it's a no brainer choice
>
> Works fer me.
>
> I will NOT drink CA chards (chardonnays). Too "smoky". I prefer the
> description, "like sucking ona Kingsford briquet".

We're not fans of CA Chardonnay, but still have been cornered into
drinking many of them. They're not *all* smoky, in fact in my
experience it's a small minority.

Still the Kingsford line is useful...

On 4/15/2016 2:23 PM, wrote:
> Drink a bottle and see, it's a no brainer


Canuck sot talk...

On 15/04/2016 3:43 PM, gtr wrote:
> On 2016-04-15 18:45:54 +0000, graham said:
>
>> I'm used to reading wine reviews that are essentially the description
>> of a fruit salad but today I read one that describes one of the
>> flavour notes as "singed bay leaf" (James Molesworth - Wine Spectator).
>> This must be the limit of pretentiousness!!!
>> So do I singe a bay leaf to find out what the hell he means or drink a
>> bottle?
>
> "Singed bay leaf", pretentious? Hardly. It at least describes tastes:
> bay leaf with a charred quality. Those a flavors. How about
> "arrogant", or even "pretentious" as a flavor or nose descriptor?
>
> I read a wine spectator remark that used the word "flinty" about 15
> years ago. We thought that was pretty funny and used it a lot for
> laughs. Remember those toy robots and space ships and the like in the
> 50's that had a flint in them and made sparks when their wheels were
> turned? They smelled just the same as a wine I had about five years
> later: flinty. So then I went to "presumptuous" as my favorite nebulous
> descriptor.
>
Some of them really annoy me. Can you tell the difference in flavour
between red and black raspberries? Dammit, different red varieties differ
in flavour. There are scores more like that.
Graham

On 4/15/2016 2:55 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2016-04-15, > wrote:
>
>> Drink a bottle and see, it's a no brainer choice
>
> Works fer me.
>
> I will NOT drink CA chards (chardonnays). Too "smoky". I prefer the
> description, "like sucking ona Kingsford briquet".
>
> nb
>


Here ya go then:

http://www.ghettowine.com/annie/

On 2016-04-15 4:55 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2016-04-15, > wrote:
>
>> Drink a bottle and see, it's a no brainer choice
>
> Works fer me.
>
> I will NOT drink CA chards (chardonnays). Too "smoky". I prefer the
> description, "like sucking ona Kingsford briquet".
>

Well, there's a descriptor that would turn me off. My wife is a charter
member of the ABC Club.... anything but chardonnay. I am the opposite.
I like most chardonnays. Maybe it is the oak aging, because she can
drink them if they are unoaked. It may work well for the wineries if
people prefer their Chardonnay unoaked because those oak barrels are
expensive and getting more expensive all the time. Stainless may be
pricey, but you can wash them out and be ready for the next batch.

On 4/15/2016 4:01 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> My wife is a charter member of the ABC Club.... anything but
> chardonnay. I am the opposite. I like most chardonnays.

Almost ALL Canucks are unrepentant sots!

On 2016-04-15 22:01:35 +0000, Dave Smith said:

>> I will NOT drink CA chards (chardonnays). Too "smoky". I prefer the
>> description, "like sucking ona Kingsford briquet".
>
> Well, there's a descriptor that would turn me off. My wife is a charter
> member of the ABC Club.... anything but chardonnay. I am the opposite.
> I like most chardonnays. Maybe it is the oak aging, because she can
> drink them if they are unoaked. It may work well for the wineries if
> people prefer their Chardonnay unoaked because those oak barrels are
> expensive and getting more expensive all the time. Stainless may be
> pricey, but you can wash them out and be ready for the next batch.

I've been so put off by CA Chardonnary that I've refused Chardonnay in
general, unless it was unavoidable (bev. at a gallery opening or some
such). Then we discovered French Chardonnay and suddenly it's
thoroughly viable.

On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 18:01:35 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> Well, there's a descriptor that would turn me off. My wife is a charter
> member of the ABC Club.... anything but chardonnay. I am the opposite.
> I like most chardonnays. Maybe it is the oak aging, because she can
> drink them if they are unoaked. It may work well for the wineries if
> people prefer their Chardonnay unoaked because those oak barrels are
> expensive and getting more expensive all the time. Stainless may be
> pricey, but you can wash them out and be ready for the next batch.
>

I don't like chardonnay in general because it is are too sweet, and
white wine shouldn't see the inside of an oak barrel. Period. I want
to taste the varietal, not charred wood.

--

sf

On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 18:08:59 -0700, gtr > wrote:

> Then we discovered French Chardonnay and suddenly it's
> thoroughly viable.

I love French wines too.

--

sf

"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 00:35:53 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 18:01:35 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, there's a descriptor that would turn me off. My wife is a charter
>>> member of the ABC Club.... anything but chardonnay. I am the opposite.
>>> I like most chardonnays. Maybe it is the oak aging, because she can
>>> drink them if they are unoaked. It may work well for the wineries if
>>> people prefer their Chardonnay unoaked because those oak barrels are
>>> expensive and getting more expensive all the time. Stainless may be
>>> pricey, but you can wash them out and be ready for the next batch.
>>>
>>
>>I don't like chardonnay in general because it is are too sweet, and
>>white wine shouldn't see the inside of an oak barrel. Period. I want
>>to taste the varietal, not charred wood.
>
> What if I like chardonnay? Does that me a bad person make?
>

Ooerrrr are you being brave or foolhardy?

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 10:07:28 +0100, "Ophelia" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Bruce" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 00:35:53 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 18:01:35 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, there's a descriptor that would turn me off. My wife is a
>>>>> charter
>>>>> member of the ABC Club.... anything but chardonnay. I am the
>>>>> opposite.
>>>>> I like most chardonnays. Maybe it is the oak aging, because she can
>>>>> drink them if they are unoaked. It may work well for the wineries if
>>>>> people prefer their Chardonnay unoaked because those oak barrels are
>>>>> expensive and getting more expensive all the time. Stainless may be
>>>>> pricey, but you can wash them out and be ready for the next batch.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I don't like chardonnay in general because it is are too sweet, and
>>>>white wine shouldn't see the inside of an oak barrel. Period. I want
>>>>to taste the varietal, not charred wood.
>>>
>>> What if I like chardonnay? Does that me a bad person make?
>>>
>>
>>Ooerrrr are you being brave or foolhardy?
>
> I'm not sure, but she said "Period", so I think I'm in trouble.

Oh dear ...


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 2016-04-16 3:35 AM, sf wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 18:01:35 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> Well, there's a descriptor that would turn me off. My wife is a charter
>> member of the ABC Club.... anything but chardonnay. I am the opposite.
>> I like most chardonnays. Maybe it is the oak aging, because she can
>> drink them if they are unoaked. It may work well for the wineries if
>> people prefer their Chardonnay unoaked because those oak barrels are
>> expensive and getting more expensive all the time. Stainless may be
>> pricey, but you can wash them out and be ready for the next batch.
>>
>
> I don't like chardonnay in general because it is are too sweet, and
> white wine shouldn't see the inside of an oak barrel. Period. I want
> to taste the varietal, not charred wood.
>

Chardonnay is sweet? It is classified as a dry. I have had some oak
aged Chardonnay that were really good. My wife didn't like them, but I
do. OTOH, she likes reds that are oak aged.

On 4/15/2016 11:45 AM, graham wrote:
> I'm used to reading wine reviews that are essentially the description of
> a fruit salad but today I read one that describes one of the flavour
> notes as "singed bay leaf" (James Molesworth - Wine Spectator).
> This must be the limit of pretentiousness!!!
> So do I singe a bay leaf to find out what the hell he means or drink a
> bottle?


Try the bottle up yer caboose; you know you wanna.
LOL

On 4/16/2016 4:36 AM, Bruce wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 00:35:53 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 18:01:35 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Well, there's a descriptor that would turn me off. My wife is a charter
>>> member of the ABC Club.... anything but chardonnay. I am the opposite.
>>> I like most chardonnays. Maybe it is the oak aging, because she can
>>> drink them if they are unoaked. It may work well for the wineries if
>>> people prefer their Chardonnay unoaked because those oak barrels are
>>> expensive and getting more expensive all the time. Stainless may be
>>> pricey, but you can wash them out and be ready for the next batch.
>>>
>>
>> I don't like chardonnay in general because it is are too sweet, and
>> white wine shouldn't see the inside of an oak barrel. Period. I want
>> to taste the varietal, not charred wood.
>
> What if I like chardonnay? Does that me a bad person make?
>

Not only do I like it, I like it oaked. Oak has hints of vanilla, my
favorite flavor. I'm also a traditionalist I guess. Barrels were used
to store wine for a couple of centuries before stainless existed.

On 4/16/2016 10:44 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 4/16/2016 4:36 AM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 00:35:53 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 18:01:35 -0400, Dave Smith
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, there's a descriptor that would turn me off. My wife is a charter
>>>> member of the ABC Club.... anything but chardonnay. I am the opposite.
>>>> I like most chardonnays. Maybe it is the oak aging, because she can
>>>> drink them if they are unoaked. It may work well for the wineries if
>>>> people prefer their Chardonnay unoaked because those oak barrels are
>>>> expensive and getting more expensive all the time. Stainless may be
>>>> pricey, but you can wash them out and be ready for the next batch.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't like chardonnay in general because it is are too sweet, and
>>> white wine shouldn't see the inside of an oak barrel. Period. I want
>>> to taste the varietal, not charred wood.
>>
>> What if I like chardonnay? Does that me a bad person make?
>>
>
> Not only do I like it, I like it oaked. Oak has hints of vanilla, my
> favorite flavor. I'm also a traditionalist I guess. Barrels were used
> to store wine for a couple of centuries before stainless existed.

True, but the tannins from oak bother me. Oaked chardonnay is sometimes
okay, but red wines from oak barrels really disturb my stomach. I avoid
them at all costs. And any price

Jill

On 4/16/2016 8:33 AM, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote:
> On 4/15/2016 11:45 AM, graham wrote:
>> I'm used to reading wine reviews that are essentially the description of
>> a fruit salad but today I read one that describes one of the flavour
>> notes as "singed bay leaf" (James Molesworth - Wine Spectator).
>> This must be the limit of pretentiousness!!!
>> So do I singe a bay leaf to find out what the hell he means or drink a
>> bottle?
>
>
> Try the bottle up yer caboose; you know you wanna.
> LOL

Graham is into farm sex, the bottle is just to get the ram interested...

On 2016-04-16, Dave Smith > wrote:

>>> member of the ABC Club.... anything but chardonnay. I am the opposite.
>>> I like most chardonnays. Maybe it is the oak aging, because she can
>>> drink them if they are unoaked.

Try a French white Burgundy. They are chardonnay grapes and many are
not oaked. You can also find un-oaked chards from NZ and OZ. Sez
right on the label.

nb

On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 09:59:58 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2016-04-16 3:35 AM, sf wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 18:01:35 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Well, there's a descriptor that would turn me off. My wife is a charter
>>> member of the ABC Club.... anything but chardonnay. I am the opposite.
>>> I like most chardonnays. Maybe it is the oak aging, because she can
>>> drink them if they are unoaked. It may work well for the wineries if
>>> people prefer their Chardonnay unoaked because those oak barrels are
>>> expensive and getting more expensive all the time. Stainless may be
>>> pricey, but you can wash them out and be ready for the next batch.
>>>
>>
>> I don't like chardonnay in general because it is are too sweet, and
>> white wine shouldn't see the inside of an oak barrel. Period. I want
>> to taste the varietal, not charred wood.
>>
>
>Chardonnay is sweet? It is classified as a dry. I have had some oak
>aged Chardonnay that were really good. My wife didn't like them, but I
>do. OTOH, she likes reds that are oak aged.

Then she'd like the wine of my youth, real dago red aged in huge
ancient oak barrels in Brooklyn basements, made by old Italian boccie
fanatics starting from crates of local grapes that arrived by horse
drawn carts, all decked out on Sundays with their straw fedoras and
puffing guinea stinkers.
http://www.cigardiary.com/content/pa...exported-italy
https://www.famous-smoke.com/brand/de+nobili+cigars
https://www.famous-smoke.com/brand/cao+italia+cigars
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...inea%20stinker
A Ruffino Chianti is still my favorite wine.
http://www.ruffino.com/us

On 16/04/2016 1:20 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2016-04-16, Dave Smith > wrote:
>
>>>> member of the ABC Club.... anything but chardonnay. I am the opposite.
>>>> I like most chardonnays. Maybe it is the oak aging, because she can
>>>> drink them if they are unoaked.
>
> Try a French white Burgundy.
>They are chardonnay grapes

That's where it comes from!!!

>and many are not oaked.

Probably because they use old barrels or only lightly toasted ones.
I have some from Puligny Montrachet and Meursault (I went there on a
cycling holiday) but if you want to try a Californian chardonnay that
comes close to the Burgundian style, try those of Walter Hansel, Russian
River. They are not cheap but well worth it for a special occasion. His
pinot noirs are also superb.
Graham

On 2016-04-16, graham > wrote:

> comes close to the Burgundian style, try those of Walter Hansel, Russian
> River.

I coulda prolly found it in CA, but little chance where I live now.
Thnx, anyway.

nb

On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 18:36:38 +1000, Bruce > wrote:

> On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 00:35:53 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 18:01:35 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Well, there's a descriptor that would turn me off. My wife is a charter
> >> member of the ABC Club.... anything but chardonnay. I am the opposite.
> >> I like most chardonnays. Maybe it is the oak aging, because she can
> >> drink them if they are unoaked. It may work well for the wineries if
> >> people prefer their Chardonnay unoaked because those oak barrels are
> >> expensive and getting more expensive all the time. Stainless may be
> >> pricey, but you can wash them out and be ready for the next batch.
> >>
> >
> >I don't like chardonnay in general because it is are too sweet, and
> >white wine shouldn't see the inside of an oak barrel. Period. I want
> >to taste the varietal, not charred wood.
>
> What if I like chardonnay? Does that me a bad person make?

I stated my personal preferences. You can drink sewer water if you
wish.

--

sf

On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 09:59:58 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 2016-04-16 3:35 AM, sf wrote:
> > On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 18:01:35 -0400, Dave Smith
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> Well, there's a descriptor that would turn me off. My wife is a charter
> >> member of the ABC Club.... anything but chardonnay. I am the opposite.
> >> I like most chardonnays. Maybe it is the oak aging, because she can
> >> drink them if they are unoaked. It may work well for the wineries if
> >> people prefer their Chardonnay unoaked because those oak barrels are
> >> expensive and getting more expensive all the time. Stainless may be
> >> pricey, but you can wash them out and be ready for the next batch.
> >>
> >
> > I don't like chardonnay in general because it is are too sweet, and
> > white wine shouldn't see the inside of an oak barrel. Period. I want
> > to taste the varietal, not charred wood.
> >
>
> Chardonnay is sweet? It is classified as a dry. I have had some oak
> aged Chardonnay that were really good. My wife didn't like them, but I
> do. OTOH, she likes reds that are oak aged.

That's what beginner drinkers might think. They aren't syrupy sweet
like a Marsala, but they are definitely sweet. I can find dry
examples of practically every white wine that's normally on the sweet
side, but one or two examples doesn't make a trend. If you have oak
aged chardonnay that tastes good, I bet they aren't near the price
point that most people would consider an everyday wine.

As far as oak aging reds, it's more appropriate for a decent red
because it adds to the complexity of the finished flavor.

--

sf

On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 18:28:02 +1000, Bruce > wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 01:10:13 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 09:59:58 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 2016-04-16 3:35 AM, sf wrote:
> >> > On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 18:01:35 -0400, Dave Smith
> >> > > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Well, there's a descriptor that would turn me off. My wife is a charter
> >> >> member of the ABC Club.... anything but chardonnay. I am the opposite.
> >> >> I like most chardonnays. Maybe it is the oak aging, because she can
> >> >> drink them if they are unoaked. It may work well for the wineries if
> >> >> people prefer their Chardonnay unoaked because those oak barrels are
> >> >> expensive and getting more expensive all the time. Stainless may be
> >> >> pricey, but you can wash them out and be ready for the next batch.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > I don't like chardonnay in general because it is are too sweet, and
> >> > white wine shouldn't see the inside of an oak barrel. Period. I want
> >> > to taste the varietal, not charred wood.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Chardonnay is sweet? It is classified as a dry. I have had some oak
> >> aged Chardonnay that were really good. My wife didn't like them, but I
> >> do. OTOH, she likes reds that are oak aged.
> >
> >That's what beginner drinkers might think. They aren't syrupy sweet
> >like a Marsala, but they are definitely sweet. I can find dry
> >examples of practically every white wine that's normally on the sweet
> >side, but one or two examples doesn't make a trend. If you have oak
> >aged chardonnay that tastes good, I bet they aren't near the price
> >point that most people would consider an everyday wine.
> >
> >As far as oak aging reds, it's more appropriate for a decent red
> >because it adds to the complexity of the finished flavor.
>
> "I stated my personal preferences." (sf)

Yep. My preferences are just as personalized as yours and I'm talking
about everyday California wines. I've gone the expensive wine route
and it wasn't for me. I want drink now wines. Not a fan of
Australian wines (sorry), love NZ Sauvignon Blanc - but I've grown
tired of them, and looking around for something new. I'll probably
scope out South American wines, beginning with Chile.

--

sf

On 2016-04-17 4:10 AM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 09:59:58 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:

>>> I don't like chardonnay in general because it is are too sweet, and
>>> white wine shouldn't see the inside of an oak barrel. Period. I want
>>> to taste the varietal, not charred wood.
>>>
>>
>> Chardonnay is sweet? It is classified as a dry. I have had some oak
>> aged Chardonnay that were really good. My wife didn't like them, but I
>> do. OTOH, she likes reds that are oak aged.
>
> That's what beginner drinkers might think. They aren't syrupy sweet
> like a Marsala, but they are definitely sweet. I can find dry
> examples of practically every white wine that's normally on the sweet
> side, but one or two examples doesn't make a trend.

I ain't no beginner, and I live in a wine producing region. If you want
syrupy sweet, try our ice wines. The good ones have wonderfully complex
flavours, but they are extremely sweet. On charts of wines by sweetness,
Chardonnay is listed a dry wine. It is not bone dry like some reds, but
it is a dry white.



> If you have oak
> aged chardonnay that tastes good, I bet they aren't near the price
> point that most people would consider an everyday wine.

They are usually at least double.

>
> As far as oak aging reds, it's more appropriate for a decent red
> because it adds to the complexity of the finished flavor.

And white wines are not capable of being complex?

On 4/17/2016 5:44 AM, Bruce wrote:


>>
>> Yep. My preferences are just as personalized as yours and I'm talking
>> about everyday California wines. I've gone the expensive wine route
>> and it wasn't for me. I want drink now wines. Not a fan of
>> Australian wines (sorry), love NZ Sauvignon Blanc - but I've grown
>> tired of them, and looking around for something new. I'll probably
>> scope out South American wines, beginning with Chile.
>
> California (and Australia and every other major wine region) offers
> such a variety of wines, that it's strange that you have to go wine
> shopping all over the world.
>

IMO, it is silly to say an entire country is good or bad no matter what
your personal taste is. Every region will have wine that you like or
don't like. I like this one but not so much the winery a mile down the
road. Depends on many factors in the growing and production.

I've had wines from many different countries. Some I like more than
others within a country, not any different than different brands of
ketchup.

On 2016-04-17 09:44:01 +0000, Bruce said:

> California (and Australia and every other major wine region) offers
> such a variety of wines, that it's strange that you have to go wine
> shopping all over the world.

Variety doesn't mean good. I've drunk a zillion CA wines, and many are
serviceable, but they aren't as complex as almost any French wine I can
pick up here in CA--and I rarely by a wine that costs more than about
$20. One reason is that they don't import swill and ship it all the
way to CA to sell it competitively with the local wines. Whereas the
local wines can be shuttled around at very little expense, so there's
plenty of cheap swill available in every little bar and restaurants.

I don't know why the French consistently make good wine if you take
this distribution thing out of it. In France every damn wine I drink is
great too. More analysis won't add anything to the process. I defer
to the French.

On 2016-04-17 14:48:33 +0000, Ed Pawlowski said:

> IMO, it is silly to say an entire country is good or bad no matter what
> your personal taste is.

Romania.

> Every region will have wine that you like or don't like. I like this
> one but not so much the winery a mile down the road. Depends on many
> factors in the growing and production.

Sure, so it just takes sorting through them, one at a time, to find
some you like. When everybody with a vowel in their name is apparently
producing wine in CA, it can be a long slog of sorting.

> I've had wines from many different countries. Some I like more than
> others within a country, not any different than different brands of
> ketchup.

I don't know what you drink, and I don't dismiss a country altogether,
but I find the wines from Italy and Spain, are not hardly so diverse as
those from France, and rarely so complex at the same price point.
Again, distribution from those countries all the way to my town may be
part of the process.

On 2016-04-17 13:26:24 +0000, Dave Smith said:

>> As far as oak aging reds, it's more appropriate for a decent red
>> because it adds to the complexity of the finished flavor.
>
> And white wines are not capable of being complex?

They are not capable of being *AS* complex as a red wine, no.

"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 01:10:13 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 09:59:58 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2016-04-16 3:35 AM, sf wrote:
>>> > On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 18:01:35 -0400, Dave Smith
>>> > > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Well, there's a descriptor that would turn me off. My wife is a
>>> >> charter
>>> >> member of the ABC Club.... anything but chardonnay. I am the
>>> >> opposite.
>>> >> I like most chardonnays. Maybe it is the oak aging, because she can
>>> >> drink them if they are unoaked. It may work well for the wineries if
>>> >> people prefer their Chardonnay unoaked because those oak barrels are
>>> >> expensive and getting more expensive all the time. Stainless may be
>>> >> pricey, but you can wash them out and be ready for the next batch.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > I don't like chardonnay in general because it is are too sweet, and
>>> > white wine shouldn't see the inside of an oak barrel. Period. I want
>>> > to taste the varietal, not charred wood.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Chardonnay is sweet? It is classified as a dry. I have had some oak
>>> aged Chardonnay that were really good. My wife didn't like them, but I
>>> do. OTOH, she likes reds that are oak aged.
>>
>>That's what beginner drinkers might think. They aren't syrupy sweet
>>like a Marsala, but they are definitely sweet. I can find dry
>>examples of practically every white wine that's normally on the sweet
>>side, but one or two examples doesn't make a trend. If you have oak
>>aged chardonnay that tastes good, I bet they aren't near the price
>>point that most people would consider an everyday wine.
>>
>>As far as oak aging reds, it's more appropriate for a decent red
>>because it adds to the complexity of the finished flavor.
>
> "I stated my personal preferences." (sf)
>
> --
> Bruce

Yep, and as the saying goes..."good wine is the wine that YOU like."

Cheri

On 4/17/2016 11:26 AM, gtr wrote:

>
> I don't know what you drink, and I don't dismiss a country altogether,
> but I find the wines from Italy and Spain, are not hardly so diverse as
> those from France, and rarely so complex at the same price point. Again,
> distribution from those countries all the way to my town may be part of
> the process.
>

We went to Olive Garden for lunch and they offer a sample of wine. I
got a Moscato. Horrid stuff; barely drank the taste they gave me. A
year or so later I had a moscato and it was pretty good. My point is,
don't be to quick to write off an entire country, let alone a particular
variety, to easily.


At any given time I have 150 or so bottles of wine on hand, about half
each of white and red. I buy from a few of the local wineries here in
CT. They have both, but the whites tend to be better than the reds in
this area.
http://www.ctwine.com/wineries-and-vineyards/
Stonington, Sharp Hill, Taylor Brook, Sunset Meadow are all in my cellar.

I've also bought wine from www.wsjwine.com They have a good deal for
a signup and OK prices after the first case. Works out to $15 a bottle.
I get a couple of cases a year and have never had one I didn't like.

I have two wine coolers and one is at 47 degrees for whites, the other
at 58 degrees for red that I generally take out and open an hour ahead
of drinking in the mid 60's.

A couple of stores I frequent often have tastings and I may pick up a
bottle or two if I like what they have.

I tend to drink Italian wines if we are having Italian food. I'm a
traditionalist that way.If we are having a good steak I will decant on
the the big reds. Other than that, I'm not adverse to trying anything.

We have wine with dinner maybe two or three nights a week.

On 2016-04-17 11:24 AM, gtr wrote:
> On 2016-04-17 09:44:01 +0000, Bruce said:
>
>> California (and Australia and every other major wine region) offers
>> such a variety of wines, that it's strange that you have to go wine
>> shopping all over the world.
>
> Variety doesn't mean good. I've drunk a zillion CA wines, and many are
> serviceable, but they aren't as complex as almost any French wine I can
> pick up here in CA--and I rarely by a wine that costs more than about
> $20. One reason is that they don't import swill and ship it all the way
> to CA to sell it competitively with the local wines. Whereas the local
> wines can be shuttled around at very little expense, so there's plenty
> of cheap swill available in every little bar and restaurants.
>
> I don't know why the French consistently make good wine if you take this
> distribution thing out of it. In France every damn wine I drink is great
> too. More analysis won't add anything to the process. I defer to the
> French.

The French also make a lot of mediocre wines. It is a matter of
marketing. I have known many people who disparaged our local wines and
prided themselves on drinking imported French and Italian wines, but
they were buying the plonk, not the good stuff. Our local vineyards
produce a lot of really good wines.