On Monday, August 4, 2014 10:35:22 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Sunday, August 3, 2014 7:19:08 PM UTC-4, Kalmia wrote:
>
> >
>
> > I won't even get INTO 'forte'.
>
>
>
> I learned that from George Carlin.

I learned that from a guy, (from Texas!) who used to beat the pants off me at cribbage.

> It was gratifying, later on, to hear Charles Emerson Winchester (on
>
> M*A*S*H) pronouncing the noun correctly. Those writers sure did
>
> their research well - but for all I know, David Ogden Stiers
>
> knew the correct pronunciation anyway.

Hey, I think I reMEMber that episode.

My high school drama coach tried to drill it into us that the word was 'KrisTian', not Chris-chin. Negotiate was another one of her pet peeves.

> (For those who don't know, you only pronounce the e when it's an
>
> adjective.)

Would you use it adjectivally in a sentence, please?

I bet you cringe at what some of the news-anchors are saying.

On Mon, 4 Aug 2014 09:09:54 -0700 (PDT), Kalmia
> wrote:

> My high school drama coach tried to drill it into us that the word was 'KrisTian', not Chris-chin. Negotiate was another one of her pet peeves.

Your coach would be wrong. There are two ways to pronounce it and her
way isn't the most common.
http://inogolo.com/pronunciation/Christian
http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?wor...&submit=Submit

There's only one way to pronounce negotiate.
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/u...tish/negotiate
http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?wor...&submit=Submit

Bonus points for: exit

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

"Kalmia" > wrote in message
...
> On Monday, August 4, 2014 10:35:22 AM UTC-4, wrote:
>> On Sunday, August 3, 2014 7:19:08 PM UTC-4, Kalmia wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I won't even get INTO 'forte'.
>>
>>
>>
>> I learned that from George Carlin.
>
> I learned that from a guy, (from Texas!) who used to beat the pants off me
> at cribbage.
>
>> It was gratifying, later on, to hear Charles Emerson Winchester (on
>>
>> M*A*S*H) pronouncing the noun correctly. Those writers sure did
>>
>> their research well - but for all I know, David Ogden Stiers
>>
>> knew the correct pronunciation anyway.
>
> Hey, I think I reMEMber that episode.
>
> My high school drama coach tried to drill it into us that the word was
> 'KrisTian', not Chris-chin. Negotiate was another one of her pet peeves.

I hate it when people say Crishin. I know of a woman who named her youngest
that and she always pronounced it that way. So did a friend of mine.
>
>> (For those who don't know, you only pronounce the e when it's an
>>
>> adjective.)
>
> Would you use it adjectivally in a sentence, please?
>
> I bet you cringe at what some of the news-anchors are saying.

On Monday, August 4, 2014 12:09:54 PM UTC-4, Kalmia wrote:
>
> Would you use it adjectivally in a sentence, please?

Here's how Carlin used it:

The English word forte, meaning "specialty" or "strong point," is not pronounced "for-tay." Got that? It is pronounced "fort." The Italian word forte, used in music notation, is pronounced "for-tay," and it instructs the musician to play loud: "She plays the skin flute, and her forte [fort] is playing forte [for-tay]." Look it up. And don't give me that whiny shit, "For-tay is listed as the second preference." There's a reason it's second: because it's not first!

(A lot more here):

http://sense.net//~blaine/funstuff/carlin.html

It's from his 1990s book, "Brain Droppings."


>
> I bet you cringe at what some of the news-anchors are saying.


I certainly do, usually regarding their grammar. See Carlin's first paragraph at the link.

My TV hasn't been working lately, and it makes me realize more than ever just how much of viewers' time gets wasted on so-called news when they could read newspapers - IMO, a significant percentage of TV news, these days, is....kitten videos. Or stuff like that. If I had a kid, I'd put REAL limits on screen time, as my cousins do with their incredibly adorable, bright, well-read, and polite preteen kids - they even have an attention span!!

It disgusts me the way some print journalists, who should know better, sometimes say stuff like "things have just changed in child-rearing and there's nothing parents can do about it." No, they could. If they weren't such cowards. There is NO reason to put a TV or videogames in the kid's BEDROOM if you care about their reading skills at all. When they cry, just say: "Think how happy you'll be when, unlike your classmates, you'll actually be able to write and spell by the time you're 8. Maybe you'll even get an A or two."

Lenona.

On Tue, 5 Aug 2014 08:32:02 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

> On Monday, August 4, 2014 12:09:54 PM UTC-4, Kalmia wrote:
> >
> > Would you use it adjectivally in a sentence, please?
>
> Here's how Carlin used it:
>
> The English word forte, meaning "specialty" or "strong point," is not pronounced "for-tay." Got that? It is pronounced "fort." The Italian word forte, used in music notation, is pronounced "for-tay," and it instructs the musician to play loud: "She plays the skin flute, and her forte [fort] is playing forte [for-tay]." Look it up. And don't give me that whiny shit, "For-tay is listed as the second preference." There's a reason it's second: because it's not first!

Those fancy French words are best left to the French, British and
musicians. Americans hear a word pronounced "fort" and think of it as
an abbreviation of fortification. If we mean it's not a "strong
point", that's what we say...unless (of course) we're trying to
demonstrate how cosmopolitan we are. Then it's foot in mouth.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 1:00:51 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:


> Those fancy French words are best left to the French, British and
>
> musicians. Americans hear a word pronounced "fort" and think of it as
>
> an abbreviation of fortification. If we mean it's not a "strong
>
> point", that's what we say...unless (of course) we're trying to
>
> demonstrate how cosmopolitan we are. Then it's foot in mouth.


"Best left to"?

If we all cared about being well-read and well-informed in general,
regardless of whether we had the chance to go to college or not, a lot
of not-so-long words wouldn't sound "cosmopolitan," just part of the
normal vocabulary of someone over 30 or even 20.

I seem to remember an article by a teacher that told of how a class
of teens in a middle-class(?) high school flatly refused to contemplate
the idea that one purpose of high school is to expand your vocabulary.
Quote (not verbatim) from a student: "If you people (adults) would only
talk like everyone else, we wouldn't need all those extra words."

Reminds me of how some people say that nowadays, the purpose of college
is to prove you have a high school education.

Lenona.

> wrote in message
...
> On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 1:00:51 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>
>
>> Those fancy French words are best left to the French, British and
>>
>> musicians. Americans hear a word pronounced "fort" and think of it as
>>
>> an abbreviation of fortification. If we mean it's not a "strong
>>
>> point", that's what we say...unless (of course) we're trying to
>>
>> demonstrate how cosmopolitan we are. Then it's foot in mouth.
>
>
> "Best left to"?
>
> If we all cared about being well-read and well-informed in general,
> regardless of whether we had the chance to go to college or not, a lot
> of not-so-long words wouldn't sound "cosmopolitan," just part of the
> normal vocabulary of someone over 30 or even 20.
>
> I seem to remember an article by a teacher that told of how a class
> of teens in a middle-class(?) high school flatly refused to contemplate
> the idea that one purpose of high school is to expand your vocabulary.
> Quote (not verbatim) from a student: "If you people (adults) would only
> talk like everyone else, we wouldn't need all those extra words."
>
> Reminds me of how some people say that nowadays, the purpose of college
> is to prove you have a high school education.
>


I used to have a boss who would pause and pause to think of a word, then say
it and complete his sentence. I would as "what does **that word** mean?"
He would then just use a normal, simple word that meant the same thing.

On Tue, 5 Aug 2014 15:27:30 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

> On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 1:00:51 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>
>
> > Those fancy French words are best left to the French, British and
> >
> > musicians. Americans hear a word pronounced "fort" and think of it as
> >
> > an abbreviation of fortification. If we mean it's not a "strong
> >
> > point", that's what we say...unless (of course) we're trying to
> >
> > demonstrate how cosmopolitan we are. Then it's foot in mouth.
>
>
> "Best left to"?

Yes. You people are the ones who rely on French words to say
something that can be better understood by everyone when using
English. If "fort" means "strong point", then say "strong point" and
don't try to be cute.
>
> If we all cared about being well-read and well-informed in general,
> regardless of whether we had the chance to go to college or not, a lot
> of not-so-long words wouldn't sound "cosmopolitan," just part of the
> normal vocabulary of someone over 30 or even 20.

You're an East Coaster. French words are part of the fabric back
there. Words like "forte" are obviously not very well learned by the
natives or else people would know when it's appropriate to say fortay
and when they should say fort. If they did, the common misuse
wouldn't be made fun of by a comedian.
>
> I seem to remember an article by a teacher that told of how a class
> of teens in a middle-class(?) high school flatly refused to contemplate
> the idea that one purpose of high school is to expand your vocabulary.
> Quote (not verbatim) from a student: "If you people (adults) would only
> talk like everyone else, we wouldn't need all those extra words."
>
> Reminds me of how some people say that nowadays, the purpose of college
> is to prove you have a high school education.
>
I've never heard that, but again... you're an east coaster. You guys
are different.



--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 12:28:25 AM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2014 15:27:30 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 1:00:51 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>

> >
>
> > "Best left to"?
>
>
>
> Yes. You people are the ones who rely on French words to say
>
> something that can be better understood by everyone when using
>
> English. If "fort" means "strong point", then say "strong point" and
>
> don't try to be cute.
>
> >
>
> > If we all cared about being well-read and well-informed in general,
>
> > regardless of whether we had the chance to go to college or not, a lot
>
> > of not-so-long words wouldn't sound "cosmopolitan," just part of the
>
> > normal vocabulary of someone over 30 or even 20.
>
>
>
> You're an East Coaster. French words are part of the fabric back
>
> there. Words like "forte" are obviously not very well learned by the
>
> natives or else people would know when it's appropriate to say fortay
>
> and when they should say fort. If they did, the common misuse
>
> wouldn't be made fun of by a comedian.
>

Yes, and very small kids in some rural parts of the country might get
angry and frustrated by the long, unfamiliar French word "restaurant"
when adults could just say "a place to eat." Not to mention unfamiliar
words like "gargantuan" or "substantial" or "vast" when you just say
"big."

Reminds me of the 16-year-old, book-hating Scarlett O'Hara. "She hated
people who used words unknown to her."

Why, exactly, was it civilized for her to hate such people, per se?

As if her preferences should rule the world?


Lenona.

On Wed, 6 Aug 2014 13:01:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

> On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 12:28:25 AM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> > On Tue, 5 Aug 2014 15:27:30 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 1:00:51 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> >
>
> > >
> >
> > > "Best left to"?
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes. You people are the ones who rely on French words to say
> >
> > something that can be better understood by everyone when using
> >
> > English. If "fort" means "strong point", then say "strong point" and
> >
> > don't try to be cute.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > If we all cared about being well-read and well-informed in general,
> >
> > > regardless of whether we had the chance to go to college or not, a lot
> >
> > > of not-so-long words wouldn't sound "cosmopolitan," just part of the
> >
> > > normal vocabulary of someone over 30 or even 20.
> >
> >
> >
> > You're an East Coaster. French words are part of the fabric back
> >
> > there. Words like "forte" are obviously not very well learned by the
> >
> > natives or else people would know when it's appropriate to say fortay
> >
> > and when they should say fort. If they did, the common misuse
> >
> > wouldn't be made fun of by a comedian.
> >
>
> Yes, and very small kids in some rural parts of the country might get
> angry and frustrated by the long, unfamiliar French word "restaurant"
> when adults could just say "a place to eat." Not to mention unfamiliar
> words like "gargantuan" or "substantial" or "vast" when you just say
> "big."

If you're trying to say "fort" and "fortay" are in common usage. I
beg to differ. Again. You're an East Coaster. You people live and
breath French. Hit the flat states and the rest of the country does
not.
>
> Reminds me of the 16-year-old, book-hating Scarlett O'Hara. "She hated
> people who used words unknown to her."
>
> Why, exactly, was it civilized for her to hate such people, per se?
>
> As if her preferences should rule the world?
>
She was a character in a book, subject to the author's whims, but
maybe you haven't figured that part out yet.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 1:00:51 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2014 08:32:02 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Monday, August 4, 2014 12:09:54 PM UTC-4, Kalmia wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > Would you use it adjectivally in a sentence, please?
>
> >
>
> > Here's how Carlin used it:
>
> >
>
> > The English word forte, meaning "specialty" or "strong point," is not pronounced "for-tay." Got that? It is pronounced "fort." The Italian word forte, used in music notation, is pronounced "for-tay," and it instructs the musician to play loud: "She plays the skin flute, and her forte [fort] is playing forte [for-tay]." Look it up. And don't give me that whiny shit, "For-tay is listed as the second preference." There's a reason it's second: because it's not first!
>
>
>
> Those fancy French words are best left to the French, British and
>
> musicians. Americans hear a word pronounced "fort" and think of it as
>
> an abbreviation of fortification. If we mean it's not a "strong
>
> point", that's what we say...unless (of course) we're trying to
>
> demonstrate how cosmopolitan we are. Then it's foot in mouth.

Another goodie is the habit of plastering umlauts over just about any vowel one cares to choose, to make it look German. Likewise galling, ( get the almost-pun? ), is that practice of sticking accents over any French word ending in 'e'. AGGHH. Especially guilty of this are those developers who name subdivisions, streets etc. and probably never even mastered to, too and two.

"John" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 05 Aug 2014 10:00:51 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 5 Aug 2014 08:32:02 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, August 4, 2014 12:09:54 PM UTC-4, Kalmia wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Would you use it adjectivally in a sentence, please?
>>>
>>> Here's how Carlin used it:
>>>
>>> The English word forte, meaning "specialty" or "strong point," is not
>>> pronounced
>>> "for-tay." Got that? It is pronounced "fort." The Italian word forte,
>>> used in music
>>> notation, is pronounced "for-tay," and it instructs the musician to play
>>> loud: "She
>>> plays the skin flute, and her forte [fort] is playing forte [for-tay]."
>>> Look it up. And
>>> don't give me that whiny shit, "For-tay is listed as the second
>>> preference." There's
>>> a reason it's second: because it's not first!
>>
>>Those fancy French words are best left to the French, British and
>>musicians. Americans hear a word pronounced "fort" and think of it as
>>an abbreviation of fortification. If we mean it's not a "strong
>>point", that's what we say...unless (of course) we're trying to
>>demonstrate how cosmopolitan we are. Then it's foot in mouth.
>
> Who needs French anyway. If English was good enough for Jesus, it's
> good enough for us!
>

well said!

On Wed, 06 Aug 2014 09:27:59 +1000, John > wrote:

> Who needs French anyway. If English was good enough for Jesus, it's
> good enough for us!
>

You got it brotha... the Jesus with blond hair and blue eyes.


--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On 8/6/2014 12:29 AM, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Aug 2014 09:27:59 +1000, John > wrote:
>
>> Who needs French anyway. If English was good enough for Jesus, it's
>> good enough for us!
>>
>
> You got it brotha... the Jesus with blond hair and blue eyes.
>
>
LOL If Jesus had shown up in the 1960's in Haight-Ashbury he'd have
been considered a long-haired hippie. He might have developed a cult
following... at least until the Bee Gees came along.

Jill

>
> Who needs French anyway. If English was good enough for Jesus, it's
>
> good enough for us!
>

Jesus who??