Not sure how you'd figure the complicated part. Number of ingredients?
Number of steps? Length of time in the kitchen?

I find it hard to pin on any one thing. I made pot stickers once. The
recipe made a ton and it took me many hours to do it. Same for ravioli when
I made a lot. Made puff pastry from scratch. That wasn't worth it. Have
also made Chinese Tomato Beef. Although it wasn't hard, it was a lot of
prep work. You have to partially freeze the beef to slice it and there are
so many different vegetables that need to be stir fried for different
lengths of time. Then there is the sauce. Baklava is time consuming. So
are hominy croquettes.

I think probably the one thing that gave me the most difficulty aside from
pie crust is taffy. I have tried assorted recipes and I somehow always
manage to cook it for too long. Turns into a potential tooth breaker.

On Fri, 4 Apr 2014 17:16:43 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>Not sure how you'd figure the complicated part. Number of ingredients?
>Number of steps? Length of time in the kitchen?
....
>I think probably the one thing that gave me the most difficulty aside from
>pie crust is taffy. I have tried assorted recipes and I somehow always
>manage to cook it for too long. Turns into a potential tooth breaker.

Probably in total my Cghristmas Candy. Many varieties, and I've done a
lot of expermentatikon over the 29 years I've been making it. And of
course my always challenging quintessential creation, my Chocolate
Covered Cheries! I REALLY do want to find a good way to keep them from
leaking! They certainly are a lot of exacting work!

And about your taffy: do you use a candy thermometer? They are quite
crucial to getting a candy syrup cooked to just the right
temp=hardness when cool. Except for my nephew, he makes his English
Toffee without one! He just seems to know when it's cooked enough!

John Kuthe...

"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 4 Apr 2014 17:16:43 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>Not sure how you'd figure the complicated part. Number of ingredients?
>>Number of steps? Length of time in the kitchen?
> ...
>>I think probably the one thing that gave me the most difficulty aside from
>>pie crust is taffy. I have tried assorted recipes and I somehow always
>>manage to cook it for too long. Turns into a potential tooth breaker.
>
> Probably in total my Cghristmas Candy. Many varieties, and I've done a
> lot of expermentatikon over the 29 years I've been making it. And of
> course my always challenging quintessential creation, my Chocolate
> Covered Cheries! I REALLY do want to find a good way to keep them from
> leaking! They certainly are a lot of exacting work!
>
> And about your taffy: do you use a candy thermometer? They are quite
> crucial to getting a candy syrup cooked to just the right
> temp=hardness when cool. Except for my nephew, he makes his English
> Toffee without one! He just seems to know when it's cooked enough!
>
> John Kuthe...

I have tried the taffy with and without the thermometer. Several different
thermometers. I finally gave up. I don't even like taffy so much. Some
candies can be complicated. Like fondant. Not so hard to make but needs a
few days to mellow before use.

On Saturday, April 5, 2014 10:16:43 AM UTC+10, Julie Bove wrote:
> Not sure how you'd figure the complicated part. Number of ingredients?
> Number of steps? Length of time in the kitchen?
> I find it hard to pin on any one thing.

Length of time won't make it too complicated, but it might make it too much effort. Subjective judgment works - you don't always need an objective metric.

Probably the most complicated thing made here has been Heston chips (by my wife, not me). Definitely the most complicated thing that's been made more than once. The most complicated thing that gets made regularly is lasagne.

That's looking at single dishes. Counting a whole dinner, it could any of a number of dinner parties. But then I have help.

> I made pot stickers once.

Time-consuming to make a lot, but not complicated, IMO. I rarely make (Asian-style filled) dumplings, since it's easy to buy good/adequate frozen ones, adequate (sometimes good!) fast food ones, or eat a whole bunch of good ones at yum cha.

On 4/4/2014 10:15 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "John Kuthe" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Fri, 4 Apr 2014 17:16:43 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Not sure how you'd figure the complicated part. Number of ingredients?
>>> Number of steps? Length of time in the kitchen?
>> ...
>>> I think probably the one thing that gave me the most difficulty aside
>>> from
>>> pie crust is taffy. I have tried assorted recipes and I somehow always
>>> manage to cook it for too long. Turns into a potential tooth breaker.
>>
>> Probably in total my Cghristmas Candy. Many varieties, and I've done a
>> lot of expermentatikon over the 29 years I've been making it. And of
>> course my always challenging quintessential creation, my Chocolate
>> Covered Cheries! I REALLY do want to find a good way to keep them from
>> leaking! They certainly are a lot of exacting work!
>>
>> And about your taffy: do you use a candy thermometer? They are quite
>> crucial to getting a candy syrup cooked to just the right
>> temp=hardness when cool. Except for my nephew, he makes his English
>> Toffee without one! He just seems to know when it's cooked enough!
>>
>> John Kuthe...
>
> I have tried the taffy with and without the thermometer. Several
> different thermometers. I finally gave up. I don't even like taffy so
> much. Some candies can be complicated. Like fondant. Not so hard to
> make but needs a few days to mellow before use.

I'm not very ambitious and seldom make anything more complicated than
Indian, Chinese or Mexican food for supper. I guess I regard cakes as my
most complicated foods but, since I have long adhered to a fat-free
regime, I don't make them often. About my most common effort is
gingerbread, incorporating fresh ginger root.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

On 4/4/2014 8:16 PM, Julie Bove wrote:

> Not sure how you'd figure the complicated part. Number of ingredients?
> Number of steps? Length of time in the kitchen?
>
> I find it hard to pin on any one thing. I made pot stickers once. The
> recipe made a ton and it took me many hours to do it. Same for ravioli
> when I made a lot. Made puff pastry from scratch. That wasn't worth
> it. Have also made Chinese Tomato Beef. Although it wasn't hard, it
> was a lot of prep work. You have to partially freeze the beef to slice
> it and there are so many different vegetables that need to be stir fried
> for different lengths of time. Then there is the sauce. Baklava is
> time consuming. So are hominy croquettes.
>
> I think probably the one thing that gave me the most difficulty aside
> from pie crust is taffy. I have tried assorted recipes and I somehow
> always manage to cook it for too long. Turns into a potential tooth
> breaker.

Two things. One was ravioli about 30 years ago and I swore I'd never
make it from scratch again. But the TV chefs make it look so easy that
I'd probably try it again sometime. The second was perogi. That one
I'll never do again.


--
ღ.¸¸.œ«*¨`*œ¶
Cheryl

"Cheryl" > wrote in message
b.com...
> On 4/4/2014 8:16 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>> Not sure how you'd figure the complicated part. Number of ingredients?
>> Number of steps? Length of time in the kitchen?
>>
>> I find it hard to pin on any one thing. I made pot stickers once. The
>> recipe made a ton and it took me many hours to do it. Same for ravioli
>> when I made a lot. Made puff pastry from scratch. That wasn't worth
>> it. Have also made Chinese Tomato Beef. Although it wasn't hard, it
>> was a lot of prep work. You have to partially freeze the beef to slice
>> it and there are so many different vegetables that need to be stir fried
>> for different lengths of time. Then there is the sauce. Baklava is
>> time consuming. So are hominy croquettes.
>>
>> I think probably the one thing that gave me the most difficulty aside
>> from pie crust is taffy. I have tried assorted recipes and I somehow
>> always manage to cook it for too long. Turns into a potential tooth
>> breaker.
>
> Two things. One was ravioli about 30 years ago and I swore I'd never make
> it from scratch again. But the TV chefs make it look so easy that I'd
> probably try it again sometime. The second was perogi. That one I'll
> never do again.

They do make it look easy. It never is. I never tried pierogi but I have
made faux ones using those shells for stuffing. Tastes the same unless you
want fried. You couldn't fry those very well.

Julie Bove > wrote:

> Not sure how you'd figure the complicated part. Number of ingredients?
> Number of steps? Length of time in the kitchen?

Gefilte fish - the real thing, not the American fish-ball version
masquerading under that name. Skinning the fish and stuffing it back
into its skin is not easy for someone inexperienced.

Victor

"Victor Sack" > wrote in message
.. .
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>> Not sure how you'd figure the complicated part. Number of ingredients?
>> Number of steps? Length of time in the kitchen?
>
> Gefilte fish - the real thing, not the American fish-ball version
> masquerading under that name. Skinning the fish and stuffing it back
> into its skin is not easy for someone inexperienced.

Oh yes! I read about how to do that. Not for me!

In article >, says...
>
> "Cheryl" > wrote in message
> b.com...
> > On 4/4/2014 8:16 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> >
> >> Not sure how you'd figure the complicated part. Number of ingredients?
> >> Number of steps? Length of time in the kitchen?

Back in the 70's, a group of other young mums and me used to take
turns cooking a special evening dinner for each other every month. Women
only; the husbands were all at home babysitting the children. Three
courses all cooked from scratch. We were all keen cooks, the menus
relied heavily on 70's guru Robert Carrier and we ate some lovely
meals, complicated dishes that took hours to prepare. It was our self
indulgence, when we let our hair down, drank a lot of wine and had a
wonderful time.

One that I recall making (took hours) was individual brandy snap dishes,
filled with ginger icecream, and covered with a little golden cage made
with spun sugar. One I recall eating was a fabulous middle eastern
dish of chicken cooked in butter and apricots with pine nuts, lightly
spiced.

Now we're all older wiser and lazier.. and scattered. But the same
bunch still travel to get together for a meal in town once a month....
only we do it the easy way in a restaurant.

Janet UK

On 4/4/2014 11:45 PM, Cheryl wrote:

> Two things. One was ravioli about 30 years ago and I swore I'd never
> make it from scratch again. But the TV chefs make it look so easy that
> I'd probably try it again sometime. The second was perogi. That one
> I'll never do again.
>
>

I don't find them complicated as much as time consuming. We usually
make ravioli together. I roll the dough, my wife does the filling. My
wife has a good stuffing with ricotta, parm cheese, and prosciutto. You
can't find commercial stuff that good.

I remember pirogi at my Grandmother's house. We went for the day and my
mother and Aunt would also be helping out cutting the rounds and filling
them.

> wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 22:44:47 -0400, James Silverton
> > wrote:
>
>>On 4/4/2014 10:15 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>> "John Kuthe" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Fri, 4 Apr 2014 17:16:43 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Not sure how you'd figure the complicated part. Number of
>>>>> ingredients?
>>>>> Number of steps? Length of time in the kitchen?
>>>> ...
>>>>> I think probably the one thing that gave me the most difficulty aside
>>>>> from
>>>>> pie crust is taffy. I have tried assorted recipes and I somehow
>>>>> always
>>>>> manage to cook it for too long. Turns into a potential tooth breaker.
>>>>
>>>> Probably in total my Cghristmas Candy. Many varieties, and I've done a
>>>> lot of expermentatikon over the 29 years I've been making it. And of
>>>> course my always challenging quintessential creation, my Chocolate
>>>> Covered Cheries! I REALLY do want to find a good way to keep them from
>>>> leaking! They certainly are a lot of exacting work!
>>>>
>>>> And about your taffy: do you use a candy thermometer? They are quite
>>>> crucial to getting a candy syrup cooked to just the right
>>>> temp=hardness when cool. Except for my nephew, he makes his English
>>>> Toffee without one! He just seems to know when it's cooked enough!
>>>>
>>>> John Kuthe...
>>>
>>> I have tried the taffy with and without the thermometer. Several
>>> different thermometers. I finally gave up. I don't even like taffy so
>>> much. Some candies can be complicated. Like fondant. Not so hard to
>>> make but needs a few days to mellow before use.
>>
>>I'm not very ambitious and seldom make anything more complicated than
>>Indian, Chinese or Mexican food for supper. I guess I regard cakes as my
>>most complicated foods but, since I have long adhered to a fat-free
>>regime, I don't make them often. About my most common effort is
>>gingerbread, incorporating fresh ginger root.
>
> I once made a leg of lamb in aspic - made my own aspic, time consuming
> - then after the lamb was gently cooked and cold, I decorated it with
> carrot flowers, leek leaves and all sorts of things. Then the aspic
> had to be applied, very carefully, and left to set. It did look
> lovely, probably not worth the hours of labour though.

I hope took photos of that after all that work?

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 23:45:20 -0400, Cheryl >
wrote:

>Two things. One was ravioli about 30 years ago and I swore I'd never
>make it from scratch again. But the TV chefs make it look so easy that
>I'd probably try it again sometime. The second was perogi. That one
>I'll never do again.

Gnocchi. I watched a video on how to do it properly, and tried to
follow it exactly. Put the potatoes through a ricer, then spread them
out on the counter to dry before mixing the dough. Try as I might, I
couldn't get the hang of shaping the the things. And they ended up
tasting rather meh, after taking most of the afternoon to produce.

Doris

I think the most complicated thing I've made is baklava. Layer after layer after layer of phyllo, melted butter, nuts, etc, but it turned out great.

Denise in NH

On 4/5/2014 10:17 AM, Doris Night wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 23:45:20 -0400, Cheryl >
> wrote:
>
>> Two things. One was ravioli about 30 years ago and I swore I'd never
>> make it from scratch again. But the TV chefs make it look so easy that
>> I'd probably try it again sometime. The second was perogi. That one
>> I'll never do again.
>
> Gnocchi. I watched a video on how to do it properly, and tried to
> follow it exactly. Put the potatoes through a ricer, then spread them
> out on the counter to dry before mixing the dough. Try as I might, I
> couldn't get the hang of shaping the the things. And they ended up
> tasting rather meh, after taking most of the afternoon to produce.
>
> Doris
>
For me it was tamales. Tamales are really a multi-person assembly line
process. Without a lot of help they take forever to make. They were
delicious, though!

Jill

On 2014-04-05, jmcquown > wrote:

> For me it was tamales. Tamales are really a multi-person assembly line
> process. Without a lot of help they take forever to make.

.....and are mostly poor ppl fodder, simple filler food.

I was shocked when I helped a very traditional older Mexican lady make
tamales. I figured, since the tamales are not being sold for $$ to
stupid gringos, these will be meaty and satisfying. Wrong! The
masa/chili mix was fully 50% manteca and the mixture made up at least
85%-90% of the tamale! Despite these tamales being made for her
family, the meat mixture was still only a smear of flavor in the masa
crust. Only a few grams of actual meat made it to each finished
tamale. I love a good tamale, but "good" means it has some serious
meat in it. For the most part, traditional tamales do not. Merely
the tease of meat.

nb

On 4/5/2014 11:14 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2014-04-05, jmcquown > wrote:
>
>> For me it was tamales. Tamales are really a multi-person assembly line
>> process. Without a lot of help they take forever to make.
>
> ....and are mostly poor ppl fodder, simple filler food.
>
> I was shocked when I helped a very traditional older Mexican lady make
> tamales. I figured, since the tamales are not being sold for $$ to
> stupid gringos, these will be meaty and satisfying. Wrong! The
> masa/chili mix was fully 50% manteca and the mixture made up at least
> 85%-90% of the tamale! Despite these tamales being made for her
> family, the meat mixture was still only a smear of flavor in the masa
> crust. Only a few grams of actual meat made it to each finished
> tamale. I love a good tamale, but "good" means it has some serious
> meat in it. For the most part, traditional tamales do not. Merely
> the tease of meat.
>
> nb
>
<shrug> The ones I made had enough nicely spiced meat filling.
Spreading the masa dough, adding the filling then rolling them in soaked
corn husks to be steamed took a long time. They were worth it, but it
was a one-time thing for me. This was a couple of decades ago. I don't
even remember where I got the recipe.

Jill

On Fri, 4 Apr 2014 17:16:43 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>Not sure how you'd figure the complicated part. Number of ingredients?
>Number of steps? Length of time in the kitchen?
>
>I find it hard to pin on any one thing. I made pot stickers once. The
>recipe made a ton and it took me many hours to do it. Same for ravioli when
>I made a lot. Made puff pastry from scratch. That wasn't worth it. Have
>also made Chinese Tomato Beef. Although it wasn't hard, it was a lot of
>prep work. You have to partially freeze the beef to slice it and there are
>so many different vegetables that need to be stir fried for different
>lengths of time. Then there is the sauce. Baklava is time consuming. So
>are hominy croquettes.
>
>I think probably the one thing that gave me the most difficulty aside from
>pie crust is taffy. I have tried assorted recipes and I somehow always
>manage to cook it for too long. Turns into a potential tooth breaker.

Manicotti. It is not that complicated but takes a long time. Day 1
is start the sauce and make the shells. Day 2 is make the filling and
assemble it.. I usually made about 32, which went into freezer
containers except enough for dinner that night .

Now I make Ziti casserole which is much easier. I also make the sauce
with tomatoes from the garden and can it.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

On 4/5/2014 10:14 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2014-04-05, jmcquown > wrote:
>
>> For me it was tamales. Tamales are really a multi-person assembly line
>> process. Without a lot of help they take forever to make.
>
> ....and are mostly poor ppl fodder, simple filler food.
>
> I was shocked when I helped a very traditional older Mexican lady make
> tamales. I figured, since the tamales are not being sold for $$ to
> stupid gringos, these will be meaty and satisfying. Wrong! The
> masa/chili mix was fully 50% manteca and the mixture made up at least
> 85%-90% of the tamale! Despite these tamales being made for her
> family, the meat mixture was still only a smear of flavor in the masa
> crust. Only a few grams of actual meat made it to each finished
> tamale. I love a good tamale, but "good" means it has some serious
> meat in it. For the most part, traditional tamales do not. Merely
> the tease of meat.


All the more reason to make them yourself. We make our own with the
meat filling being the majority component. Since it is pretty labor
intensive, we make a LOT... freezing most of them for later use. Unlike
some traditional recipes, we also season the Masa so that adds flavor.

We live in a town that is almost 40% Hispanic and have some very good
Mexican restaurants, but I never order tamales. Our home made ones are
much better.

George L

On 2014-04-05 10:25 AM, wrote:
> I think the most complicated thing I've made is baklava. Layer after
> layer after layer of phyllo, melted butter, nuts, etc, but it turned
> out great.

That's tedious out not particularly complicated. You just have to have
every thing ready and to work fast. If you want to step that one up,
try Galaktobouriko, similar dish but with a rich, sweet custard instead
of the nuts, and cut into larger servings.


The most complicated recipe I ever tackled was Boeuf end Crute from a
French cook book. It is basically serving size pieces of beef
Wellington. it was what my wife had decided on having for a dinner party
we were hosting. She took off and left me to prepare it.

It involved partially roasting a chunk of tenderloin, cutting it into
serving sizes, placing it on a sheets of puff pastry ( see page xx),
topping it with liver pate (see page xx) and Druxelles (see page xx).
The Druxelle recipe called for clarified butter (see page xx ),which was
a recipe for about one cup, and I needed only 2 Tbsp,

It called for 1-1/2 cup browning sauce (see page xx) and that one
included several cups of beef brother (see page xx) and 1/4 cup fresh
tomato puree (see page XX).

Among these recipes there were also booze ingredients, Madeira, white
wine and brandy.

I confess that I took some short cuts. There was a lot of muttering
going on as I tackled these ingredients and the sub recipes. I kept
thinking this had better be good.

It was. It was incredible. I did it one other time. If I ever see it on
a menu I will have it a third time. I am not going to all that work again.

On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 10:17:23 -0400, Doris Night
> wrote:

> On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 23:45:20 -0400, Cheryl >
> wrote:
>
> >Two things. One was ravioli about 30 years ago and I swore I'd never
> >make it from scratch again. But the TV chefs make it look so easy that
> >I'd probably try it again sometime. The second was perogi. That one
> >I'll never do again.
>
> Gnocchi. I watched a video on how to do it properly, and tried to
> follow it exactly. Put the potatoes through a ricer, then spread them
> out on the counter to dry before mixing the dough. Try as I might, I
> couldn't get the hang of shaping the the things. And they ended up
> tasting rather meh, after taking most of the afternoon to produce.
>
I've decided that if I ever make gnocchi, it will be ricotta based
because I haven't ever eaten a potato gnocchi that I truly enjoyed
(even when I know they are house made).... but ricotta gnocchi are
like eating a little piece of heaven.


--

Good Food.
Good Friends.
Good Memories.

On 4/5/2014 12:05 PM, George Leppla wrote:
> On 4/5/2014 10:14 AM, notbob wrote:
>> On 2014-04-05, jmcquown > wrote:
>>
>>> For me it was tamales. Tamales are really a multi-person assembly line
>>> process. Without a lot of help they take forever to make.
>>
>>
(snippety)

>> crust. Only a few grams of actual meat made it to each finished
>> tamale. I love a good tamale, but "good" means it has some serious
>> meat in it. For the most part, traditional tamales do not. Merely
>> the tease of meat.
>
>
> All the more reason to make them yourself. We make our own with the
> meat filling being the majority component. Since it is pretty labor
> intensive, we make a LOT... freezing most of them for later use. Unlike
> some traditional recipes, we also season the Masa so that adds flavor.
>
> We live in a town that is almost 40% Hispanic and have some very good
> Mexican restaurants, but I never order tamales. Our home made ones are
> much better.
>
> George L
>
>
I used to go to a small restaurant with co-workers in Memphis that
served a different type of tamale. These were not made with
manteca/masa dough. They appeared to be cooked in some sort of dense,
yet very moist, flour dough mixture. I'd never seen anything like them,
before or since. They were *loaded* with spicy shredded meat filling,
topped with a nice white cheese sauce. Very filling!

Jill

On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 10:42:48 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

> On 4/5/2014 10:17 AM, Doris Night wrote:
> > On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 23:45:20 -0400, Cheryl >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Two things. One was ravioli about 30 years ago and I swore I'd never
> >> make it from scratch again. But the TV chefs make it look so easy that
> >> I'd probably try it again sometime. The second was perogi. That one
> >> I'll never do again.
> >
> > Gnocchi. I watched a video on how to do it properly, and tried to
> > follow it exactly. Put the potatoes through a ricer, then spread them
> > out on the counter to dry before mixing the dough. Try as I might, I
> > couldn't get the hang of shaping the the things. And they ended up
> > tasting rather meh, after taking most of the afternoon to produce.
> >
> > Doris
> >
> For me it was tamales. Tamales are really a multi-person assembly line
> process. Without a lot of help they take forever to make. They were
> delicious, though!
>
I'm with whoever said ravioli. I don't mind making the filling and
filling the ravioli and I don't mind mixing the pasta dough. BUT
rolling it out is a huge chore that I don't enjoy and after all that
work... they tasted just like fresh ravioli from the refrigerated
section which told me one of two things: either

1. I suck at it
-or-
2. Refrigerated ravioli is pretty darned good (I vote for that)

So, I decided to cross ravioli off my list. OTOH, I make excellent
gnudi, so I don't care.


--

Good Food.
Good Friends.
Good Memories.

On 5 Apr 2014 15:14:20 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> On 2014-04-05, jmcquown > wrote:
>
> > For me it was tamales. Tamales are really a multi-person assembly line
> > process. Without a lot of help they take forever to make.
>
> ....and are mostly poor ppl fodder, simple filler food.
>
> I was shocked when I helped a very traditional older Mexican lady make
> tamales. I figured, since the tamales are not being sold for $$ to
> stupid gringos, these will be meaty and satisfying. Wrong! The
> masa/chili mix was fully 50% manteca and the mixture made up at least
> 85%-90% of the tamale! Despite these tamales being made for her
> family, the meat mixture was still only a smear of flavor in the masa
> crust. Only a few grams of actual meat made it to each finished
> tamale. I love a good tamale, but "good" means it has some serious
> meat in it. For the most part, traditional tamales do not. Merely
> the tease of meat.
>
Which is why you make your own. OTOH, "the tamale lady" that sells
outside one of the local grocery stores makes them just the way I'd
make my own... only better, because one of her fillings is chili verde
(pork). Oh, yum! Think I'll get some today... they're huge and only
$2 each.


--

Good Food.
Good Friends.
Good Memories.

On Sat, 5 Apr 2014 10:45:41 +0200, (Victor Sack)
wrote:

> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
> > Not sure how you'd figure the complicated part. Number of ingredients?
> > Number of steps? Length of time in the kitchen?
>
> Gefilte fish - the real thing, not the American fish-ball version
> masquerading under that name. Skinning the fish and stuffing it back
> into its skin is not easy for someone inexperienced.
>
I'd be happy just knowing how to make the fish ball version. The
first time I tried it, they had been made by a Jewish granny gearing
up for some Jewish holiday. Maybe it was Purim, maybe it was
something else.



--

Good Food.
Good Friends.
Good Memories.

On Sat, 5 Apr 2014 07:25:05 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

> I think the most complicated thing I've made is baklava. Layer after layer after layer of phyllo, melted butter, nuts, etc, but it turned out great.
>

I've done a "not quite" baklava a couple of times. I combined two
recipes on the box of phyllo, so it was a baklava filling rolled cigar
style. Super good, but we don't eat a lot of sweets and that was a
LOT of sweets.


--

Good Food.
Good Friends.
Good Memories.

On 2014-04-05 12:37 PM, jmcquown wrote:

>> We live in a town that is almost 40% Hispanic and have some very good
>> Mexican restaurants, but I never order tamales. Our home made ones are
>> much better.
>>
>> George L
>>
>>
> I used to go to a small restaurant with co-workers in Memphis that
> served a different type of tamale. These were not made with
> manteca/masa dough. They appeared to be cooked in some sort of dense,
> yet very moist, flour dough mixture. I'd never seen anything like them,
> before or since. They were *loaded* with spicy shredded meat filling,
> topped with a nice white cheese sauce. Very filling!
>

I must be missing something. I have had tamales in local "Mexican"
restaurants and I have had tamales homemade by my neighbours Mexican
friends who always bring lots of interesting foods to their parties.
Based on my experiences, I would not think they were worth the effort or
order, or to make. There is not Hispanic community around here other
than the seasonal farm labourers.

Victor Sack wrote:
>Julie Bove wrote:
>
>> Not sure how you'd figure the complicated part. Number of ingredients?
>> Number of steps? Length of time in the kitchen?
>
>Gefilte fish - the real thing, not the American fish-ball version
>masquerading under that name. Skinning the fish and stuffing it back
>into its skin is not easy for someone inexperienced.
>
>Victor

Bubbe Sack! lol

On 2014-04-05 12:45 PM, sf wrote:

> I've done a "not quite" baklava a couple of times. I combined two
> recipes on the box of phyllo, so it was a baklava filling rolled cigar
> style. Super good, but we don't eat a lot of sweets and that was a
> LOT of sweets.
>

Yeah. It is sweet for people who like sweets. I can't imagine anyone
who doesn't eat sweets enjoying it. From my experience, every place that
makes baklava does it differently. By the time you get past the richness
of the butter slathered between each layer and all that syrup poured
over it, whatever you used for a filling is pretty well drowned out by
the rich sweetness.

I did not eat Baklava for a long time because of the problem I used to
have when I ate nuts. Since I got my gall bladder out there are all
sorts of foods that I can eat again. I have even had a few things with
nuts without suffering. It may be time to try baklava again, though I
would rather have the custard version.... Galaktobourika.

The last time I made Baklava my son said it made him sick. No wonder. He
ate about half of the batch I had made. I would have been suffering
with a lot less that that. One small piece goes a long way.

On 4/5/2014 2:14 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2014-04-05 12:37 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>
>>> We live in a town that is almost 40% Hispanic and have some very good
>>> Mexican restaurants, but I never order tamales. Our home made ones are
>>> much better.
>>>
>>> George L
>>>
>>>
>> I used to go to a small restaurant with co-workers in Memphis that
>> served a different type of tamale. These were not made with
>> manteca/masa dough. They appeared to be cooked in some sort of dense,
>> yet very moist, flour dough mixture. I'd never seen anything like them,
>> before or since. They were *loaded* with spicy shredded meat filling,
>> topped with a nice white cheese sauce. Very filling!
>>
>
> I must be missing something. I have had tamales in local "Mexican"
> restaurants and I have had tamales homemade by my neighbours Mexican
> friends who always bring lots of interesting foods to their parties.
> Based on my experiences, I would not think they were worth the effort or
> order, or to make. There is not Hispanic community around here other
> than the seasonal farm labourers.
>
Well, what you're missing is home made tamales. Recap: notbob had some
made by a "Mexican" lady for her family and said they were skimpy on
meat filling and disappointing. I said the ones I made myself had
plenty of meat filling. But they were time-consuming, too much work.
George agreed home made are better. I mentioned an odd kind of tamale
from a restaurant which were very good.

It sounds like what you're missing is never having had (or made) good
from scratch tamales.

Jill

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 4/5/2014 2:14 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2014-04-05 12:37 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>
>>>> We live in a town that is almost 40% Hispanic and have some very good
>>>> Mexican restaurants, but I never order tamales. Our home made ones are
>>>> much better.
>>>>
>>>> George L
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I used to go to a small restaurant with co-workers in Memphis that
>>> served a different type of tamale. These were not made with
>>> manteca/masa dough. They appeared to be cooked in some sort of dense,
>>> yet very moist, flour dough mixture. I'd never seen anything like them,
>>> before or since. They were *loaded* with spicy shredded meat filling,
>>> topped with a nice white cheese sauce. Very filling!
>>>
>>
>> I must be missing something. I have had tamales in local "Mexican"
>> restaurants and I have had tamales homemade by my neighbours Mexican
>> friends who always bring lots of interesting foods to their parties.
>> Based on my experiences, I would not think they were worth the effort or
>> order, or to make. There is not Hispanic community around here other
>> than the seasonal farm labourers.
>>
> Well, what you're missing is home made tamales. Recap: notbob had some
> made by a "Mexican" lady for her family and said they were skimpy on meat
> filling and disappointing. I said the ones I made myself had plenty of
> meat filling. But they were time-consuming, too much work. George agreed
> home made are better. I mentioned an odd kind of tamale from a restaurant
> which were very good.
>
> It sounds like what you're missing is never having had (or made) good from
> scratch tamales.
>
> Jill

I made some last Christmas since I had never made them before, they were
time consuming so I scratched them from things I wanted to try again, though
they tasted fine. Then I gave my neighbors Divinity and he brought over some
tamales his wife had made (Hispanic family) they were wonderful!!! Next year
I plan to do that again. :-)

Cheri

On 2014-04-05 3:12 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 4/5/2014 2:14 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2014-04-05 12:37 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>
>>>> We live in a town that is almost 40% Hispanic and have some very good
>>>> Mexican restaurants, but I never order tamales. Our home made ones are
>>>> much better.
>>>>
>>>> George L
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I used to go to a small restaurant with co-workers in Memphis that
>>> served a different type of tamale. These were not made with
>>> manteca/masa dough. They appeared to be cooked in some sort of dense,
>>> yet very moist, flour dough mixture. I'd never seen anything like them,
>>> before or since. They were *loaded* with spicy shredded meat filling,
>>> topped with a nice white cheese sauce. Very filling!
>>>
>>
>> I must be missing something. I have had tamales in local "Mexican"
>> restaurants and I have had tamales homemade by my neighbours Mexican
>> friends who always bring lots of interesting foods to their parties.
>> Based on my experiences, I would not think they were worth the effort or
>> order, or to make. There is not Hispanic community around here other
>> than the seasonal farm labourers.
>>
> Well, what you're missing is home made tamales. Recap: notbob had some
> made by a "Mexican" lady for her family and said they were skimpy on
> meat filling and disappointing. I said the ones I made myself had
> plenty of meat filling. But they were time-consuming, too much work.
> George agreed home made are better. I mentioned an odd kind of tamale
> from a restaurant which were very good.
>
> It sounds like what you're missing is never having had (or made) good
> from scratch tamales.
>

Exactly. Since my experience with restaurant tamales and those of a
women who has provided me with some very tasty Mexican treats, I don't
see myself getting interested in making them at home.

Maybe some day I will happen upon good tamales and decide that there is
hope for them.

> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 5 Apr 2014 15:10:31 +0100, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
> wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 22:44:47 -0400, James Silverton
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 4/4/2014 10:15 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "John Kuthe" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> On Fri, 4 Apr 2014 17:16:43 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure how you'd figure the complicated part. Number of
>>>>>>> ingredients?
>>>>>>> Number of steps? Length of time in the kitchen?
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> I think probably the one thing that gave me the most difficulty
>>>>>>> aside
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> pie crust is taffy. I have tried assorted recipes and I somehow
>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>> manage to cook it for too long. Turns into a potential tooth
>>>>>>> breaker.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably in total my Cghristmas Candy. Many varieties, and I've done
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> lot of expermentatikon over the 29 years I've been making it. And of
>>>>>> course my always challenging quintessential creation, my Chocolate
>>>>>> Covered Cheries! I REALLY do want to find a good way to keep them
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> leaking! They certainly are a lot of exacting work!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And about your taffy: do you use a candy thermometer? They are quite
>>>>>> crucial to getting a candy syrup cooked to just the right
>>>>>> temp=hardness when cool. Except for my nephew, he makes his English
>>>>>> Toffee without one! He just seems to know when it's cooked enough!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John Kuthe...
>>>>>
>>>>> I have tried the taffy with and without the thermometer. Several
>>>>> different thermometers. I finally gave up. I don't even like taffy
>>>>> so
>>>>> much. Some candies can be complicated. Like fondant. Not so hard to
>>>>> make but needs a few days to mellow before use.
>>>>
>>>>I'm not very ambitious and seldom make anything more complicated than
>>>>Indian, Chinese or Mexican food for supper. I guess I regard cakes as my
>>>>most complicated foods but, since I have long adhered to a fat-free
>>>>regime, I don't make them often. About my most common effort is
>>>>gingerbread, incorporating fresh ginger root.
>>>
>>> I once made a leg of lamb in aspic - made my own aspic, time consuming
>>> - then after the lamb was gently cooked and cold, I decorated it with
>>> carrot flowers, leek leaves and all sorts of things. Then the aspic
>>> had to be applied, very carefully, and left to set. It did look
>>> lovely, probably not worth the hours of labour though.
>>
>>I hope took photos of that after all that work?
>
> In one of the boxes somewhere, pre-digital days

That's ok, so long as you have it)

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 4/5/2014 2:14 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2014-04-05 12:37 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>
>>>> We live in a town that is almost 40% Hispanic and have some very good
>>>> Mexican restaurants, but I never order tamales. Our home made ones are
>>>> much better.
>>>>
>>>> George L
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I used to go to a small restaurant with co-workers in Memphis that
>>> served a different type of tamale. These were not made with
>>> manteca/masa dough. They appeared to be cooked in some sort of dense,
>>> yet very moist, flour dough mixture. I'd never seen anything like them,
>>> before or since. They were *loaded* with spicy shredded meat filling,
>>> topped with a nice white cheese sauce. Very filling!
>>>
>>
>> I must be missing something. I have had tamales in local "Mexican"
>> restaurants and I have had tamales homemade by my neighbours Mexican
>> friends who always bring lots of interesting foods to their parties.
>> Based on my experiences, I would not think they were worth the effort or
>> order, or to make. There is not Hispanic community around here other
>> than the seasonal farm labourers.
>>
> Well, what you're missing is home made tamales. Recap: notbob had some
> made by a "Mexican" lady for her family and said they were skimpy on meat
> filling and disappointing. I said the ones I made myself had plenty of
> meat filling. But they were time-consuming, too much work. George agreed
> home made are better. I mentioned an odd kind of tamale from a restaurant
> which were very good.
>
> It sounds like what you're missing is never having had (or made) good from
> scratch tamales.

Or in my case never really knew what they were)

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 5 Apr 2014 15:14:20 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>On 2014-04-05, jmcquown > wrote:
>
>> For me it was tamales. Tamales are really a multi-person assembly line
>> process. Without a lot of help they take forever to make.
>
>....and are mostly poor ppl fodder, simple filler food.
>
>I was shocked when I helped a very traditional older Mexican lady make
>tamales. I figured, since the tamales are not being sold for $$ to
>stupid gringos, these will be meaty and satisfying. Wrong! The
>masa/chili mix was fully 50% manteca and the mixture made up at least
>85%-90% of the tamale! Despite these tamales being made for her
>family, the meat mixture was still only a smear of flavor in the masa
>crust. Only a few grams of actual meat made it to each finished
>tamale. I love a good tamale, but "good" means it has some serious
>meat in it. For the most part, traditional tamales do not. Merely
>the tease of meat.
>
>nb

It is possible that the woman was making tamales for an large extended
family and could not afford enough meat to make them like the
"gringos" think they should be. If you have plenty of money or are
making them for a limited number of people you can use as much meat as
you want.


--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

On 2014-04-05 4:49 PM, The Cook wrote:

>
> It is possible that the woman was making tamales for an large extended
> family and could not afford enough meat to make them like the
> "gringos" think they should be. If you have plenty of money or are
> making them for a limited number of people you can use as much meat as
> you want.
>


That may have been the case with the authentically made tamales I had.
The family had recently immigrated here from Mexico and the mother
wanted to open a restaurant. They lived next to my new neighbour's old
house. Our neighbour has big parties several times a year, more or less
pot luck and this family (mother, two sons and their wives and two
kids) bring enough food to feed a couple dozen, but not usually meat
dishes. These tamales did not have much meat or spice. They were pretty
bland. They were pretty much like those I had had years earlier in a
Mexican restaurant. They didn't taste much different from grits. I like
grits well enough as a starch dish, and I just figured that tamales are
a hell of a lot of work for a similar result.

Not having much of a Hispanic community in the area, and not having any
good Mexican restaurants, they don't seem to have caught on around here.

On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 14:22:26 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 2014-04-05 12:45 PM, sf wrote:
>
> > I've done a "not quite" baklava a couple of times. I combined two
> > recipes on the box of phyllo, so it was a baklava filling rolled cigar
> > style. Super good, but we don't eat a lot of sweets and that was a
> > LOT of sweets.
> >
>
> Yeah. It is sweet for people who like sweets. I can't imagine anyone
> who doesn't eat sweets enjoying it. From my experience, every place that
> makes baklava does it differently. By the time you get past the richness
> of the butter slathered between each layer and all that syrup poured
> over it, whatever you used for a filling is pretty well drowned out by
> the rich sweetness.
>
> I did not eat Baklava for a long time because of the problem I used to
> have when I ate nuts. Since I got my gall bladder out there are all
> sorts of foods that I can eat again. I have even had a few things with
> nuts without suffering. It may be time to try baklava again, though I
> would rather have the custard version.... Galaktobourika.
>
> The last time I made Baklava my son said it made him sick. No wonder. He
> ate about half of the batch I had made. I would have been suffering
> with a lot less that that. One small piece goes a long way.
>
I find I can eat a lot more sweets than my husband, because I've never
been a borderline diabetic. I imagine that your pancreas has
something to do with tolerating sweets too. In any case, sweets have
never made me feel physically bad - I just don't care for them....
probably because I'm a female and my weight would suffer if I indulged
too much.


--

Good Food.
Good Friends.
Good Memories.

On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 12:23:01 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 2014-04-05 10:25 AM, wrote:
> > I think the most complicated thing I've made is baklava. Layer after
> > layer after layer of phyllo, melted butter, nuts, etc, but it turned
> > out great.
>
> That's tedious out not particularly complicated. You just have to have
> every thing ready and to work fast. If you want to step that one up,
> try Galaktobouriko, similar dish but with a rich, sweet custard instead
> of the nuts, and cut into larger servings.

Phyllo isn't hard to work with, but you do have to know how. My
absolute favorite thing to do with it is appetizer sized "tyropita" -
which is a couple of layers of phyllo with a filling that is folded
into a triangle, like the American flag. You can buy them
commercially now and they're almost as good as home made, so I haven't
done that in years.


--

Good Food.
Good Friends.
Good Memories.

On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 12:37:46 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

> On 4/5/2014 12:05 PM, George Leppla wrote:
> > On 4/5/2014 10:14 AM, notbob wrote:
> >> On 2014-04-05, jmcquown > wrote:
> >>
> >>> For me it was tamales. Tamales are really a multi-person assembly line
> >>> process. Without a lot of help they take forever to make.
> >>
> >>
> (snippety)
>
> >> crust. Only a few grams of actual meat made it to each finished
> >> tamale. I love a good tamale, but "good" means it has some serious
> >> meat in it. For the most part, traditional tamales do not. Merely
> >> the tease of meat.
> >
> >
> > All the more reason to make them yourself. We make our own with the
> > meat filling being the majority component. Since it is pretty labor
> > intensive, we make a LOT... freezing most of them for later use. Unlike
> > some traditional recipes, we also season the Masa so that adds flavor.
> >
> > We live in a town that is almost 40% Hispanic and have some very good
> > Mexican restaurants, but I never order tamales. Our home made ones are
> > much better.
> >
> > George L
> >
> >
> I used to go to a small restaurant with co-workers in Memphis that
> served a different type of tamale. These were not made with
> manteca/masa dough. They appeared to be cooked in some sort of dense,
> yet very moist, flour dough mixture. I'd never seen anything like them,
> before or since. They were *loaded* with spicy shredded meat filling,
> topped with a nice white cheese sauce. Very filling!
>

Different areas of Mexico, Central and South America make tamales
different ways. Some are loaded with filling, others aren't.


--

Good Food.
Good Friends.
Good Memories.

On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 15:12:27 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

> It sounds like what you're missing is never having had (or made) good
> from scratch tamales.

Agree!


--

Good Food.
Good Friends.
Good Memories.