Goomba wrote:
> Janet wrote:
>
>> Thankyou. I knew JW's don't permit blood transfusion and organ
>> transplants but not that any religions objected to vaccination.
>
> Not Christian Scientists? I seem to recall they eschew doctors...but I
> dunno for sure?

A few weeks ago someone posted this joke -

What do you call a lizard who refuses to go to the vet when sick?
Christian Science Monitor.

I'll add another joke about a religious sect -

What's an Amish quickie?
Ohhh .... about an hour .... and .... a half.

On 2/21/2011 6:49 AM, Jean B. wrote:
> Looking back, I should have home schooled her from the beginning. BUT
> she needed to be exposed to other kids, or so I thought.
>
> Yes, she was horribly bored too. She entered school eager to learn,
> ahead of the other kids (not pushed by me; I followed her interests,
> making material available to her) and was totally ignored. I put her
> into private school, and that was a disaster--very clique-y. Home
> schooling at that point would not have been as possible. I probably
> still should have done that.
>
> I don't believe in medicating kids so they will fit in (well, I am sure
> there are cases where medication is necessary). She was quiet, didn't
> disrupt anything. A lot of the time, the meds seem to be for pretty
> normal behavior.
>

Medicating kids is a tough choice for most parents. We went into this
with reservations. My son had some bad side effects. Taking him out of
school solved that problem - including his problems with asthma and
allergies.

On Feb 21, 9:39*am, Melba's Jammin' >
wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
>
>
>
>
> *Miche > wrote:
> > In article >,
> > *sf > wrote:
>
> > > On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:48:48 +1300, Miche > wrote:
>
> > > > In article >,
> > > > *sf > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 07:56:28 +1300, Miche > wrote:
>
> > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > *sf > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 16:47:50 -0800 (PST), lainie
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > I'm betting a site like the Beef Cattle Production would be
> > > > > > > > clearly
> > > > > > > > biased.
>
> > > > > > > I'm not disputing growth hormones... what I'm disputing is
> > > > > > > "autism".
>
> > > > > > Seriously?
>
> > > > > Yes, seriously.
>
> > > > You really don't believe autism exists?
>
> > > *Don't* put words into my mouth. *I'm disputing that autism can be
> > > "injected" into meat. *Hormones, yes - autism, no.

> I'm pretty sure the OP was not suggesting that autism is injected into
> meat. LOL!! *

Of course autism can't be injected into meat. I forgot how picky this
group could be!!

Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
> Holy Order of the Sacred Sisters of St. Pectina of Jella
> "Always in a jam, never in a stew; sometimes in a pickle."
> Pepparkakor particulars posted 11-29-2010;http://web.me.com/barbschaller- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Feb 21, 6:25*pm, lainie > wrote:
> On Feb 21, 9:39*am, Melba's Jammin' >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
> > >,
>
> > *Miche > wrote:
> > > In article >,
> > > *sf > wrote:
>
> > > > On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:48:48 +1300, Miche > wrote:
>
> > > > > In article >,
> > > > > *sf > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 07:56:28 +1300, Miche > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > > *sf > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 16:47:50 -0800 (PST), lainie
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > I'm betting a site like the Beef Cattle Production would be
> > > > > > > > > clearly
> > > > > > > > > biased.
>
> > > > > > > > I'm not disputing growth hormones... what I'm disputing is
> > > > > > > > "autism".
>
> > > > > > > Seriously?
>
> > > > > > Yes, seriously.
>
> > > > > You really don't believe autism exists?
>
> > > > *Don't* put words into my mouth. *I'm disputing that autism can be
> > > > "injected" into meat. *Hormones, yes - autism, no.
> > I'm pretty sure the OP was not suggesting that autism is injected into
> > meat. LOL!! *
>
> Of course autism can't be injected into meat. I forgot how picky this
> group could be!!
>
Maybe someone injected some bad haircut into something I ate. Yeah,
that has to be it.

--Bryan

In article
>,
lainie > wrote:

> On Feb 21, 9:39*am, Melba's Jammin' >
> wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *Miche > wrote:
> > > In article >,
> > > *sf > wrote:
> >
> > > > On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:48:48 +1300, Miche > wrote:
> >
> > > > > In article >,
> > > > > *sf > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 07:56:28 +1300, Miche >
> > > > > > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > > *sf > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 16:47:50 -0800 (PST), lainie
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > > I'm betting a site like the Beef Cattle Production would be
> > > > > > > > > clearly
> > > > > > > > > biased.
> >
> > > > > > > > I'm not disputing growth hormones... what I'm disputing is
> > > > > > > > "autism".
> >
> > > > > > > Seriously?
> >
> > > > > > Yes, seriously.
> >
> > > > > You really don't believe autism exists?
> >
> > > > *Don't* put words into my mouth. *I'm disputing that autism can be
> > > > "injected" into meat. *Hormones, yes - autism, no.
>
> > I'm pretty sure the OP was not suggesting that autism is injected into
> > meat. LOL!! *
>
> Of course autism can't be injected into meat. I forgot how picky this
> group could be!!
>
> Barb,
> >
> > - Show quoted text -

Are you calling me picky? Hell, *I* wasn't the one who thought you were
suggesting that autism was injected into meat. <rolls eyes>
--
Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Holy Order of the Sacred Sisters of St. Pectina of Jella
"Always in a jam, never in a stew; sometimes in a pickle."
Pepparkakor particulars posted 11-29-2010;
http://web.me.com/barbschaller

In article >, dsi1@usenet-
news.net says...
>
> On 2/21/2011 6:49 AM, Jean B. wrote:
> > Looking back, I should have home schooled her from the beginning. BUT
> > she needed to be exposed to other kids, or so I thought.
> >
> > Yes, she was horribly bored too. She entered school eager to learn,
> > ahead of the other kids (not pushed by me; I followed her interests,
> > making material available to her) and was totally ignored. I put her
> > into private school, and that was a disaster--very clique-y. Home
> > schooling at that point would not have been as possible. I probably
> > still should have done that.
> >
> > I don't believe in medicating kids so they will fit in (well, I am sure
> > there are cases where medication is necessary). She was quiet, didn't
> > disrupt anything. A lot of the time, the meds seem to be for pretty
> > normal behavior.
> >
>
> Medicating kids is a tough choice for most parents. We went into this
> with reservations. My son had some bad side effects. Taking him out of
> school solved that problem - including his problems with asthma and
> allergies.

FWIW, in my early '50s I after sneering at "drugging our kids" for many
years, got to wondering if I actually had ADHD. According to two
different shrinks I met the profile so one of them prescribed Ritalin
for me.

That was a real eye-opener. For the first time in my life all my
affairs were in order, the bills were paid on time, the house was
spotless, I had time to make breakfast before work, I was arriving at
appointments on time, and I wasn't noticing any effects from the meds.
It wasn't like I thought it was where the meds just drug the kid into
lethargy.

Unfortunately the meds stopped working for me after a while.

So, with regard to ADHD anyway, I'd say that the decision to medicate,
if it were my kid, would be a slam-dunk, not to help the kid "fit in"
but because it makes it easier for him or her do do the things that he
or she wants to do in life.

However, _listen_ to the kid--if he's not happy with what the meds are
doing to him, he's likely overmedicated.

On Feb 21, 8:40*pm, Melba's Jammin' >
wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
>
>
>
>
> *lainie > wrote:
> > On Feb 21, 9:39 am, Melba's Jammin' >
> > wrote:
> > > In article
> > > >,
>
> > > Miche > wrote:
> > > > In article >,
> > > > sf > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:48:48 +1300, Miche > wrote:
>
> > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > sf > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 07:56:28 +1300, Miche >
> > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > > > sf > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 16:47:50 -0800 (PST), lainie
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > I'm betting a site like the Beef Cattle Production would be
> > > > > > > > > > clearly
> > > > > > > > > > biased.
>
> > > > > > > > > I'm not disputing growth hormones... what I'm disputing is
> > > > > > > > > "autism".
>
> > > > > > > > Seriously?
>
> > > > > > > Yes, seriously.
>
> > > > > > You really don't believe autism exists?
>
> > > > > *Don't* put words into my mouth. I'm disputing that autism can be
> > > > > "injected" into meat. Hormones, yes - autism, no.
>
> > > I'm pretty sure the OP was not suggesting that autism is injected into
> > > meat. LOL!!
>
> > Of course autism can't be injected into meat. I forgot how picky this
> > group could be!!
>
> > Barb,
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> Are you calling me picky? *Hell, *I* wasn't the one who thought you were
> suggesting that autism was injected into meat. *<rolls eyes>
> --
> Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
> Holy Order of the Sacred Sisters of St. Pectina of Jella
> "Always in a jam, never in a stew; sometimes in a pickle."
> Pepparkakor particulars posted 11-29-2010;http://web.me.com/barbschaller- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No, no, no. I'm sorry. You misunderstood. My 'picky; comment was
not addressed at you.

I was happy that someone got that I forgot a friggin' comma!

dsi1 wrote:
> On 2/21/2011 6:49 AM, Jean B. wrote:
>> Looking back, I should have home schooled her from the beginning. BUT
>> she needed to be exposed to other kids, or so I thought.
>>
>> Yes, she was horribly bored too. She entered school eager to learn,
>> ahead of the other kids (not pushed by me; I followed her interests,
>> making material available to her) and was totally ignored. I put her
>> into private school, and that was a disaster--very clique-y. Home
>> schooling at that point would not have been as possible. I probably
>> still should have done that.
>>
>> I don't believe in medicating kids so they will fit in (well, I am sure
>> there are cases where medication is necessary). She was quiet, didn't
>> disrupt anything. A lot of the time, the meds seem to be for pretty
>> normal behavior.
>>
>
> Medicating kids is a tough choice for most parents. We went into this
> with reservations. My son had some bad side effects. Taking him out of
> school solved that problem - including his problems with asthma and
> allergies.

I am sure meds ARE necessary at times, but they also seem to be
used on kids who previously would have been regarded as fairly normal.

--
Jean B.

Bryan wrote:
> sf > wrote:
>> Bryan > wrote:
>
>> > The guy who faked the research about vaccines and autism should be
>> > hanged by the neck until dead.
>> > It should be done on live TV. *They should strip him first so he shits
>> > himself publicly. *He is a murderer.
>>
>> How did you extrapolate "murderer" out of that?
>>
> Knowingly faking research that has cause thousands of children to skip
> immunizations leads to children dying. Children too young to get the
> vaccine are protected by herd immunity. Scientists who fake research,
> and convince ignorant parents not to vaccinate their children, are no
> better than someone who gives a child a loaded gun to play with.
> http://thestir.cafemom.com/toddler/1...drew_wakefield

Parents stupid enough to not vaccinate might be moving evolution forward
in favor of intelligence except for the herd immunity feature. One of
my grand kids might die because some moron pulls their kid out of the
standard vaccination program.

I get why declining vaccinations need to be allowed but there absolutely
need to be public consequences when a child gets sick because some moron
opted out. It needs to be at least as high risk to opt out as it is to
take the vaccine.

And I agree - The person who faked the data in the study should be shown
videos of children dying. At his trial. And the jury should see the
videos as well. Because tha'ts what he did when he faked the data.

Bryan wrote:
> "Pete C." > wrote:
>
>> Pretty simple, his fraud caused a large number of less intelligent
>> parents to not vaccinate their children, and as a result, a number of
>> those children died from vaccine preventable diseases.
>
> Now you're making it look like a good thing, weeding the children of
> "less intelligent parents" out of the gene pool.

If it weren't for the herd immunity feature that would be true. If some
moron opts out of vaccinations and their kid gets sick and/or dies I
have plenty of sympathy for the innocent child, none for the moron who
tried to get my grand kids sick by contagion.

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:03:15 -0600, Pete C. wrote:

> "J. Clarke" wrote:
>>
>>
>> Bear in mind that people who whine about "toxins" often don't understand
>> that there are thresholds--if a lot will kill you a little _must_ be so
>> horribly dangerous that the substance must be banned. Eventually
>> they're going to get around to applying that logic to air and water,
>> both of which will kill you in sufficient quantity.
>
> Bear in mind that those thresholds are subject to revision as more
> scientific data is collected. Also bear in mind that there are
> interactions with other substances in the environment and what may be a
> "safe" level of toxin X may interact with another compound to produce
> toxin Y at a level which is not "safe".

yes, flourides are in drinking water and we're all dead now. happy?

blake

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:49:17 -0500, Goomba wrote:

> Janet wrote:
>
>> Thankyou. I knew JW's don't permit blood transfusion and organ
>> transplants but not that any religions objected to vaccination.
>>
>> Janet
>
> Not Christian Scientists? I seem to recall they eschew doctors...but I
> dunno for sure?
>
> (*some* JW will accept blood as long as their family/friends don't know
> about it)

kinda like baptists and bourbon.

your pal,
blake

blake murphy wrote:
>
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:03:15 -0600, Pete C. wrote:
>
> > "J. Clarke" wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Bear in mind that people who whine about "toxins" often don't understand
> >> that there are thresholds--if a lot will kill you a little _must_ be so
> >> horribly dangerous that the substance must be banned. Eventually
> >> they're going to get around to applying that logic to air and water,
> >> both of which will kill you in sufficient quantity.
> >
> > Bear in mind that those thresholds are subject to revision as more
> > scientific data is collected. Also bear in mind that there are
> > interactions with other substances in the environment and what may be a
> > "safe" level of toxin X may interact with another compound to produce
> > toxin Y at a level which is not "safe".
>
> yes, flourides are in drinking water and we're all dead now. happy?
>
> blake

The government just significantly lowered the recommended fluoride level
in municipal water systems in recognition of the illnesses it's linked
to. Fluoride belongs in your toothpaste, not in your drinking water.

On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 21:19:35 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> wrote:

> I get why declining vaccinations need to be allowed but there absolutely
> need to be public consequences when a child gets sick because some moron
> opted out. It needs to be at least as high risk to opt out as it is to
> take the vaccine.

I was under the impression that unvaccinated children were not allowed
in public schools. I could be wrong though.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

sf wrote:
>
> On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 21:19:35 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> > wrote:
>
> > I get why declining vaccinations need to be allowed but there absolutely
> > need to be public consequences when a child gets sick because some moron
> > opted out. It needs to be at least as high risk to opt out as it is to
> > take the vaccine.
>
> I was under the impression that unvaccinated children were not allowed
> in public schools. I could be wrong though.

You are indeed wrong, and the "religious" exemption is typically what is
used to get around vaccination requirements though in most cases the
reason for the opposition to vaccination is not actually religious
based.

Personally, I take every vaccine I can get my hands on and have never
had an issue with any of them.

On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:22:35 -0600, "Pete C." >
wrote:

> Personally, I take every vaccine I can get my hands on and have never
> had an issue with any of them.

Me too.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On 2/21/2011 9:39 AM, Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> In >,
>> > wrote:
>>

>>> *Don't* put words into my mouth. I'm disputing that autism can be
>>> > > "injected" into meat. Hormones, yes - autism, no.

I actually got it when you wrote it and snickered.

> I'm pretty sure the OP was not suggesting that autism is injected into
> meat. LOL!!
>
> Oh, where's Grammar Girl when we need her? I wonder how the thread
> would have gone if the subject line had been, "Do hormone-injected meats
> cause autism?"
>

That would have made much more sense. But I often write things
incorrectly, misspell words that I usually don't, so I ignore the
grammar and spelling mistakes. After all, we're not being graded here.
At least not by the majority. But I still think I recognize humor when
I see it, and sf's comment was obviously tongue-in-cheek.

On 2/21/2011 4:06 AM, dsi1 wrote:
>
> Personally, I didn't care much what the diagnosis was. Kids like these
> are common - smart kids with a great capacity for learning that are
> bored to death at school. We had a hell of a time with my son's older
> brother and it was obvious that the school had no expertise in this area.
>
> My son was taking anti-anxiety drugs and going to a shrink in our effort
> to make him fit in. He suffered from allergies and respiratory problems
> and was taking drugs for this. The drugs were making him paranoid and
> probably suicidal.
>
> My moment of clarity came when the counselor/case worker smiled her
> hideous grin and announced to me that I had a smart son, I knew what I
> had to do - remove him from that environment. So we did. That pretty
> much cured him, no drugs, no anxiety, no allergies or respiratory
> problems. It was the smartest move we ever made.

Good for you! I'm so glad to see that! Did you end up
home-schooling? All parents need to take that special interest in their
kids. Unfortunately, too many don't, and they leave their kids in the
incomplete "care" of the public schools. That isn't their job. It
definitely takes a special person to be a good teacher, and probably a
lot of heartache.

On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 21:51:34 -0500, Cheryl >
wrote:

>On 2/21/2011 4:06 AM, dsi1 wrote:

>>
>> My moment of clarity came when the counselor/case worker smiled her
>> hideous grin and announced to me that I had a smart son, I knew what I
>> had to do - remove him from that environment. So we did. That pretty
>> much cured him, no drugs, no anxiety, no allergies or respiratory
>> problems. It was the smartest move we ever made.
>
>Good for you! I'm so glad to see that! Did you end up
>home-schooling? All parents need to take that special interest in their
>kids. Unfortunately, too many don't, and they leave their kids in the
>incomplete "care" of the public schools. That isn't their job. It
>definitely takes a special person to be a good teacher, and probably a
>lot of heartache.


Either of the previous two paragraphs could make me nauseated. Taken
together, they are ipecac.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 21:19:35 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> > wrote:
>
>> I get why declining vaccinations need to be allowed but there absolutely
>> need to be public consequences when a child gets sick because some moron
>> opted out. It needs to be at least as high risk to opt out as it is to
>> take the vaccine.
>
> I was under the impression that unvaccinated children were not allowed
> in public schools. I could be wrong though.

You're wrong. I don't know the particulars though. Parents have to fill
out some sort of paperwork or something.

In article >,
says...
>
> On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 21:51:34 -0500, Cheryl >
> wrote:
>
> >On 2/21/2011 4:06 AM, dsi1 wrote:
>
> >>
> >> My moment of clarity came when the counselor/case worker smiled her
> >> hideous grin and announced to me that I had a smart son, I knew what I
> >> had to do - remove him from that environment. So we did. That pretty
> >> much cured him, no drugs, no anxiety, no allergies or respiratory
> >> problems. It was the smartest move we ever made.
> >
> >Good for you! I'm so glad to see that! Did you end up
> >home-schooling? All parents need to take that special interest in their
> >kids. Unfortunately, too many don't, and they leave their kids in the
> >incomplete "care" of the public schools. That isn't their job. It
> >definitely takes a special person to be a good teacher, and probably a
> >lot of heartache.
>
>
> Either of the previous two paragraphs could make me nauseated. Taken
> together, they are ipecac.

Why would they make you nauseated?

On 2/22/2011 4:51 PM, Cheryl wrote:
> On 2/21/2011 4:06 AM, dsi1 wrote:
>>
>> Personally, I didn't care much what the diagnosis was. Kids like these
>> are common - smart kids with a great capacity for learning that are
>> bored to death at school. We had a hell of a time with my son's older
>> brother and it was obvious that the school had no expertise in this area.
>>
>> My son was taking anti-anxiety drugs and going to a shrink in our effort
>> to make him fit in. He suffered from allergies and respiratory problems
>> and was taking drugs for this. The drugs were making him paranoid and
>> probably suicidal.
>>
>> My moment of clarity came when the counselor/case worker smiled her
>> hideous grin and announced to me that I had a smart son, I knew what I
>> had to do - remove him from that environment. So we did. That pretty
>> much cured him, no drugs, no anxiety, no allergies or respiratory
>> problems. It was the smartest move we ever made.
>
> Good for you! I'm so glad to see that! Did you end up home-schooling?
> All parents need to take that special interest in their kids.
> Unfortunately, too many don't, and they leave their kids in the
> incomplete "care" of the public schools. That isn't their job. It
> definitely takes a special person to be a good teacher, and probably a
> lot of heartache.
>

My son was home schooled but it was all pretty unstructured. He's back
in classes at the community college which I think is a better
environment - I suck as a teacher. As it goes, these kids don't really
appreciate the education system until they get to the college level. I
sure didn't.

He liked my stuffed bell peppers so I taught him how to prepare it
yesterday and he made it tonight. He said it turned out pretty bland.
Stuffing peppers and cooking it is easy. Learning how to season is
tough. I'll have to come up with a better way to teach this other than
dumping what appears to be random amounts in the bowl.

The two things I'd like him to learn from me is to play the guitar and
cook. These are things most worthwhile. :-)

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 01:07:18 -0500, "J. Clarke"
> wrote:


>>
>> Either of the previous two paragraphs could make me nauseated. Taken
>> together, they are ipecac.
>
>Why would they make you nauseated?

Because each was loaded with bloviated bullshit, unfounded nonsense
and maudlin idiocy.

Otherwise, gosh, they're swell.

Boron

In article >,
says...
>
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 01:07:18 -0500, "J. Clarke"
> > wrote:
>
>
> >>
> >> Either of the previous two paragraphs could make me nauseated. Taken
> >> together, they are ipecac.
> >
> >Why would they make you nauseated?
>
> Because each was loaded with bloviated bullshit, unfounded nonsense
> and maudlin idiocy.
>
> Otherwise, gosh, they're swell.

In other words you have no logical argument to present, you just didn't
like them.

sf wrote:

> I was under the impression that unvaccinated children were not allowed
> in public schools. I could be wrong though.
>
Weren't you a 1st grade teacher? Wouldn't you be aware of the "ins and
outs" of this stuff...??

On Feb 19, 5:35*pm, lainie > wrote:
> Probaly not a new theory, but it worries me for my children,
> grandchildren and soon to be grandchild . I can't afford 'organic'
> food - as they cannot either. *What a crap shoot.

You might have a lot more to worry about if the parents
a. drive like idiots, endangering the kids' lives.
b. smoke in the house
c. feed the kids junk, soda, etc.


These are just a few of the things which come to mind which can rob a
kid of health and nurturing a lot faster than hormones.

In article
>,
Kalmia > wrote:

> On Feb 19, 5:35*pm, lainie > wrote:
> > Probaly not a new theory, but it worries me for my children,
> > grandchildren and soon to be grandchild . I can't afford 'organic'
> > food - as they cannot either. *What a crap shoot.
>
> You might have a lot more to worry about if the parents
> a. drive like idiots, endangering the kids' lives.
> b. smoke in the house
> c. feed the kids junk, soda, etc.
>
>
> These are just a few of the things which come to mind which can rob a
> kid of health and nurturing a lot faster than hormones.

That brings up an interesting question, which I had never thought about
before. I am a severe Type II diabetic, and I inject insulin twice a
day. A common question I'm asked is why I don't just take insulin
orally? Well, that's because the body digests the insulin. It's just
food. That makes sense. I learned here on this group that insulin is
not a very complicated substance. In the past, insulin was obtained
from slaughterhouses, from pigs and cows. I don't know why that isn't
used anymore (they clone human insulin now), but it worked fine. So
it's fine that it's digested, because otherwise, every time you ate a
nice juicy steak, it would affect your insulin levels. So, is it the
same for other animal hormones? That makes sense, since normally when
they give medicines to animals, they put it in their food. That's a lot
easier than giving the animal an injection. You would give an animal an
injection rather than put it in the food if oral administration didn't
work, or didn't work well.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article >,
Goomba > wrote:

> sf wrote:
>
> > I was under the impression that unvaccinated children were not allowed
> > in public schools. I could be wrong though.
> >
> Weren't you a 1st grade teacher? Wouldn't you be aware of the "ins and
> outs" of this stuff...??

One would think so, but there is an attempt to let teachers concentrate
on teaching, and not be responsible for a whole lot of other stuff.
Many people think the schools should have significant responsibilities
for health care and feeding of their students, but there just isn't the
funding for it.

My wife is the president of the local school board, so I asked her about
this. They have one nurse, for four schools and 1700 students, K-6
grades. She is responsible for keeping the records for immunizations
and screenings. I believe she does the screenings also. I believe the
school secretaries actually keep the records. For minor scrapes, the
school secretaries apply bandages.

State law requires vaccinations. Parents can opt out, though, and
submit a signed form for the school records. No reason is given, just
"personal reasons". If there is an outbreak of a contagious disease,
the school nurse can prohibit unvaccinated students from attending
school during the outbreak.

This information is for California, where both sf and I live.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Pete C. wrote:
> sf wrote:
>> Doug Freyburger > wrote:
>
>> > I get why declining vaccinations need to be allowed but there absolutely
>> > need to be public consequences when a child gets sick because some moron
>> > opted out. It needs to be at least as high risk to opt out as it is to
>> > take the vaccine.
>
>> I was under the impression that unvaccinated children were not allowed
>> in public schools. I could be wrong though.
>
> You are indeed wrong, and the "religious" exemption is typically what is
> used to get around vaccination requirements though in most cases the
> reason for the opposition to vaccination is not actually religious
> based.

Kids without vaccinations should be placed in special needs classes and
that should be reflected on their school record. Their parents are
morons and they need to know that acting like a moron as a parent is
going to exclude their children from ever making it into a top 10
college. I am sympathetic to the innocent children but I have no
sympathy for adults trying to make my grand children sick through their
decisions.

> Personally, I take every vaccine I can get my hands on and have never
> had an issue with any of them.

Me too. And my kids and grand kids.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 17:10:24 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> wrote:

> Kids without vaccinations should be placed in special needs classes and
> that should be reflected on their school record. Their parents are
> morons and they need to know that acting like a moron as a parent is
> going to exclude their children from ever making it into a top 10
> college. I am sympathetic to the innocent children but I have no
> sympathy for adults trying to make my grand children sick through their
> decisions.

I am not a doctor so *IMO* - If your grandchildren and greats are
properly vaccinated, they shouldn't be getting sick from the
unvaccinated ones... the unvaccinated ones should be making each other
sick. Like everyone else, I feel sorry for the kids - not their
idiotic parents. Unfortunately, it's usually "god's will" when the
worst happens, but my opinion is - if god has really willed it, we
wouldn't have such easy access to vaccinations that can prevent it
from happening.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

In article >,
says...
>
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 17:10:24 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> > wrote:
>
> > Kids without vaccinations should be placed in special needs classes and
> > that should be reflected on their school record. Their parents are
> > morons and they need to know that acting like a moron as a parent is
> > going to exclude their children from ever making it into a top 10
> > college. I am sympathetic to the innocent children but I have no
> > sympathy for adults trying to make my grand children sick through their
> > decisions.
>
> I am not a doctor so *IMO* - If your grandchildren and greats are
> properly vaccinated, they shouldn't be getting sick from the
> unvaccinated ones... the unvaccinated ones should be making each other
> sick. Like everyone else, I feel sorry for the kids - not their
> idiotic parents. Unfortunately, it's usually "god's will" when the
> worst happens, but my opinion is - if god has really willed it, we
> wouldn't have such easy access to vaccinations that can prevent it
> from happening.

What a bunch of shit... You are trying to take the blame from lilly
livered liberals and dumb doper hippies, and turn it to the Faithful.
Bullshit, but I guess we shouldn't expect more than trolling, from a
troll.. <plonk>

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 09:04:20 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:

> In article >,
> Goomba > wrote:
>
> > sf wrote:
> >
> > > I was under the impression that unvaccinated children were not allowed
> > > in public schools. I could be wrong though.
> > >
> > Weren't you a 1st grade teacher? Wouldn't you be aware of the "ins and
> > outs" of this stuff...??
>
> One would think so,

Why? Teachers are not responsible for the enrollment process. It
wasn't my decision to make or responsibility to follow through. None
of that even takes place at the school level anymore - or it didn't
during the last enrollment period I worked. Maybe teacher
responsibilities are different in tiny school districts filled with
religious fanatics and other lunatics (or in the South, where teachers
are really dumped on), but I doubt it. The point is - teachers are on
a "need to know" basis with personal issues and I didn't need to know.

> but there is an attempt to let teachers concentrate
> on teaching, and not be responsible for a whole lot of other stuff.

There are only so many hours in a day and as it is, there are more
mandated minutes than there are teaching minutes. The principal in
one of my schools insisted that nothing overlap, so teachers were
caught between a rock and a hard place when it came to satisfying
state/district/principal requirements.

> Many people think the schools should have significant responsibilities
> for health care and feeding of their students, but there just isn't the
> funding for it.

Goomba is a typical know-it-all outsider making assumptions she
shouldn't be making. Maybe I should start telling her that she needs
more responsibilities to earn her outrageous salary since all she does
is change bedpans and take temperatures.

Teachers are responsible for *teaching* students /after/ they have
been enrolled. They are not responsible for ensuring that children
meet the enrollment requirements of the district or tracking medical
records after enrollment. That's what central office and school
nurses are there for. All I needed to do on an IEP was note when the
last vision and hearing tests were given, which is more than general
ed teachers are required to do. IEPs are written online now, so that
information is inserted automatically by the computer program.
Vaccinations or that parents declined vaccinating their child for
"personal reasons" is not noted.
>
> My wife is the president of the local school board, so I asked her about
> this. They have one nurse, for four schools and 1700 students, K-6
> grades. She is responsible for keeping the records for immunizations
> and screenings. I believe she does the screenings also.

In my district, vision and hearing screenings are done by trained
professionals who bring in specialized equipment. The hearing people
use a specially equipped van where the screenings are conducted.

> I believe the school secretaries actually keep the records.

Schools store student records in *** (kume) files. School nurses
track the medical part of the records... school secretaries have more
than enough on their plate as it is. Just calling parents about
absences takes one person more than half a day, so the secretary needs
a "secretary" for that. Secretaries have access to critical legal and
personal student information and teachers shouldn't be gossiping about
their students personal lives - which includes medical decisions made
by their idiotic parents. Ask your wife about *privacy* issues and
medical records. Then ask her who is responsible for making school
related medical decisions. Goomba should be able to understand the
line of command, but apparently she can't extrapolate.

> For minor scrapes, the school secretaries apply bandages.

Yes. They administer certain meds (after the paperwork is filled out)
and call ambulances too.
>
> State law requires vaccinations.

That's all I know or care about and I wasn't responsible for screening
or enforcement. Personal choices concerning lack of vaccinations are
on a need to know basis and I didn't need to know. School nurses
screen medical records yearly and parents are told to present
evidence of vaccination when they are not up to date. If they don't
produce the evidence after a grace period, students are not allowed to
attend school until they do. That's when I'd come in for the
educational part. Just because they're not attending school doesn't
mean they're expected to rot in front of the TV.

> Parents can opt out, though, and
> submit a signed form for the school records. No reason is given, just
> "personal reasons". If there is an outbreak of a contagious disease,
> the school nurse can prohibit unvaccinated students from attending
> school during the outbreak.
>
> This information is for California, where both sf and I live.


--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 00:36:57 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:

> My son was home schooled but it was all pretty unstructured. He's back
> in classes at the community college which I think is a better
> environment - I suck as a teacher. As it goes, these kids don't really
> appreciate the education system until they get to the college level. I
> sure didn't.

I think it has to do more with being in control of what they are
learning. I know my interest in school improved as I gained control
and my son went from being abysmal in high school to pretty darned
good when he found something that interested him in college.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 12:42:15 -0500, I_am_Tosk
> wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> >
> > On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 17:10:24 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Kids without vaccinations should be placed in special needs classes and
> > > that should be reflected on their school record. Their parents are
> > > morons and they need to know that acting like a moron as a parent is
> > > going to exclude their children from ever making it into a top 10
> > > college. I am sympathetic to the innocent children but I have no
> > > sympathy for adults trying to make my grand children sick through their
> > > decisions.
> >
> > I am not a doctor so *IMO* - If your grandchildren and greats are
> > properly vaccinated, they shouldn't be getting sick from the
> > unvaccinated ones... the unvaccinated ones should be making each other
> > sick. Like everyone else, I feel sorry for the kids - not their
> > idiotic parents. Unfortunately, it's usually "god's will" when the
> > worst happens, but my opinion is - if god has really willed it, we
> > wouldn't have such easy access to vaccinations that can prevent it
> > from happening.
>
> What a bunch of shit... You are trying to take the blame from lilly
> livered liberals and dumb doper hippies, and turn it to the Faithful.
> Bullshit, but I guess we shouldn't expect more than trolling, from a
> troll.. <plonk>

Ahhhh! The sweet sound of being plonked by an idiot.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

In article
>,
Dan Abel > wrote:

> In article >,
> Goomba > wrote:
>
> > sf wrote:
> >
> > > I was under the impression that unvaccinated children were not allowed
> > > in public schools. I could be wrong though.
> > >
> > Weren't you a 1st grade teacher? Wouldn't you be aware of the "ins and
> > outs" of this stuff...??
>
> One would think so, but there is an attempt to let teachers concentrate
> on teaching, and not be responsible for a whole lot of other stuff.
> Many people think the schools should have significant responsibilities
> for health care and feeding of their students, but there just isn't the
> funding for it.
>
> My wife is the president of the local school board, so I asked her about
> this. They have one nurse, for four schools and 1700 students, K-6
> grades. She is responsible for keeping the records for immunizations
> and screenings. I believe she does the screenings also. I believe the
> school secretaries actually keep the records. For minor scrapes, the
> school secretaries apply bandages.
>
> State law requires vaccinations. Parents can opt out, though, and
> submit a signed form for the school records. No reason is given, just
> "personal reasons". If there is an outbreak of a contagious disease,
> the school nurse can prohibit unvaccinated students from attending
> school during the outbreak.
>
> This information is for California, where both sf and I live.

I don't think Goomba was suggesting that Barbara be the hall monitor for
enforcement, only that she could reasonably be expected to know district
or state policy about it. <shrug>

--
Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Holy Order of the Sacred Sisters of St. Pectina of Jella
"Always in a jam, never in a stew; sometimes in a pickle."
Pepparkakor particulars posted 11-29-2010;
http://web.me.com/barbschaller

On Feb 23, 12:29*pm, sf > wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 17:10:24 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
>
> > wrote:
> > Kids without vaccinations should be placed in special needs classes and
> > that should be reflected on their school record. *Their parents are
> > morons and they need to know that acting like a moron as a parent is
> > going to exclude their children from ever making it into a top 10
> > college. *I am sympathetic to the innocent children but I have no
> > sympathy for adults trying to make my grand children sick through their
> > decisions.
>
> I am not a doctor so *IMO* - If your grandchildren and greats are
> properly vaccinated, they shouldn't be getting sick from the
> unvaccinated ones... the unvaccinated ones should be making each other
> sick. *Like everyone else, I feel sorry for the kids - not their
> idiotic parents. *Unfortunately, it's usually "god's will" when the
> worst happens, but my opinion is - if god has really willed it, we
> wouldn't have such easy access to vaccinations that can prevent it
> from happening.

Of course, there's us older adults to consider, too. Our old
vaccinations
might not be as effective as they once were. A pool of unvaccinated
children represents a reservoir of viruses and bacteria that could
unnecessarily make us sick. I really don't want to get polio or
mumps or whooping cough just because some superstitious
parents don't get their kids vaccinated.

Cindy Hamilton

sf wrote:
> Doug Freyburger > wrote:
>
>> Kids without vaccinations should be placed in special needs classes and
>> that should be reflected on their school record. Their parents are
>> morons and they need to know that acting like a moron as a parent is
>> going to exclude their children from ever making it into a top 10
>> college. I am sympathetic to the innocent children but I have no
>> sympathy for adults trying to make my grand children sick through their
>> decisions.
>
> I am not a doctor so *IMO* - If your grandchildren and greats are
> properly vaccinated, they shouldn't be getting sick from the
> unvaccinated ones... the unvaccinated ones should be making each other
> sick. Like everyone else, I feel sorry for the kids - not their
> idiotic parents.

Kids get vaccinated on different schedules. I want them as soon as
possible but the schedule is how it happens. Older kids who weren't
vaccinated can get sick before the regularly scheduled vaccinations and
infect the younger kids.

> Unfortunately, it's usually "god's will" when the
> worst happens, but my opinion is - if god has really willed it, we
> wouldn't have such easy access to vaccinations that can prevent it
> from happening.

But parts of the timing are outside of our control when there are folks
who opt out their kids.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 14:07:54 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

> I don't think Goomba was suggesting that Barbara be the hall monitor for
> enforcement, only that she could reasonably be expected to know district
> or state policy about it. <shrug>

Parent's personal choice is/was none of my business.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

sf wrote:
>
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 14:07:54 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> > wrote:
>
> > I don't think Goomba was suggesting that Barbara be the hall monitor for
> > enforcement, only that she could reasonably be expected to know district
> > or state policy about it. <shrug>
>
> Parent's personal choice is/was none of my business.

Their unvaccinated "Typhoid Marys" are a threat to you directly, so they
are your business. They are especially a hazard when they travel to
other countries with their parents and bring back diseases that are
normally not found in the US.

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> I don't think Goomba was suggesting that Barbara be the hall monitor for
> enforcement, only that she could reasonably be expected to know district
> or state policy about it. <shrug>
>
It certainly is fairly common knowledge that some folks claim a
religious exemption from the vaccination laws. I'm sure most teachers
have heard of this issue (even just in passing) to be aware of it.