This pie crust thing is really starting to get to me. I made 3
attempts at crusts, today, all which failed miserably, IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxXYW...feature=relmfu

Look at the above video. Absolutely no cracking at edges. No matter
what I do, mine looks like the Arctic sea ice during the Spring thaw
or computer generated fractels. Huge 1"-2" cracks at the edge or just
plain tearing in half when picked up. It's driving me nuts! I do
notice the above crust is about 2-3 times thicker than my crusts. Is
that the secret? Double up on ingrediets and make 'em twice as thick?

I've tried more/less water, more/less shortening (not butter), colder,
warmer, tapered pins, straight pins, chilled every ingredient in the
house including tools, blah blah.... I matters not, the damn crust
begins breaking up so badly I end of doing a patchwork crust. Also,
now using the best ingredients. Pillsbury Best flour, Crisco, C&H sugar,
dried salt from the ass crack of sea goddeses, etc. This is starting
to **** me off!!

nb

notbob wrote:
>
> This pie crust thing is really starting to get to me. I made 3
> attempts at crusts, today, all which failed miserably, IMO.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxXYW...feature=relmfu
>
> Look at the above video. Absolutely no cracking at edges. No matter
> what I do, mine looks like the Arctic sea ice during the Spring thaw
> or computer generated fractels. Huge 1"-2" cracks at the edge or just
> plain tearing in half when picked up. It's driving me nuts! I do
> notice the above crust is about 2-3 times thicker than my crusts. Is
> that the secret? Double up on ingrediets and make 'em twice as thick?
>
> I've tried more/less water, more/less shortening (not butter), colder,
> warmer, tapered pins, straight pins, chilled every ingredient in the
> house including tools, blah blah.... I matters not, the damn crust
> begins breaking up so badly I end of doing a patchwork crust. Also,
> now using the best ingredients. Pillsbury Best flour, Crisco, C&H sugar,
> dried salt from the ass crack of sea goddeses, etc. This is starting
> to **** me off!!
>
> nb

Now you're seeing why I don't bother making crusts, I just focus on
what's going inside the crust. When I have made crusts though I haven't
had too much trouble with them.

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> This pie crust thing is really starting to get to me. I made 3
> attempts at crusts, today, all which failed miserably, IMO.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxXYW...feature=relmfu
>
> Look at the above video. Absolutely no cracking at edges. No matter
> what I do, mine looks like the Arctic sea ice during the Spring thaw
> or computer generated fractels. Huge 1"-2" cracks at the edge or just
> plain tearing in half when picked up. It's driving me nuts! I do
> notice the above crust is about 2-3 times thicker than my crusts. Is
> that the secret? Double up on ingrediets and make 'em twice as thick?
>
> I've tried more/less water, more/less shortening (not butter), colder,
> warmer, tapered pins, straight pins, chilled every ingredient in the
> house including tools, blah blah.... I matters not, the damn crust
> begins breaking up so badly I end of doing a patchwork crust. Also,
> now using the best ingredients. Pillsbury Best flour, Crisco, C&H sugar,
> dried salt from the ass crack of sea goddeses, etc. This is starting
> to **** me off!!
>
> nb

Your dough sounds too warm to me or your flour has a low protein content.
"Premium" these days is merely an opinion, not a fact. I always use ice
water. I have never used sugar in a pie crust. If I was making a sweet pie
the sugar was sprinkled on top before baking. Make sure you mix the fat
into the flour until it is made up of uniform pea sized balls of dough and
fat. A food processor really does a great job of this. Sea salt is
probably not doing much for you. Keep it cold is the rule. Add the ice
water in tablespoon increments until you have a tight and form dough. Don't
knead. Mix with a fork until the dough follows the fork around. Then just
keep pressing it together gently and add water as needed. Then gather it up
into a ball and let it rest wrapped in plastic in the fridge for a half
hour. I have always just used Pillsbury AP flour with great results.

Paul

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> This pie crust thing is really starting to get to me. I made 3
> attempts at crusts, today, all which failed miserably, IMO.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxXYW...feature=relmfu
>
> Look at the above video. Absolutely no cracking at edges. No matter
> what I do, mine looks like the Arctic sea ice during the Spring thaw
> or computer generated fractels. Huge 1"-2" cracks at the edge or just
> plain tearing in half when picked up. It's driving me nuts! I do
> notice the above crust is about 2-3 times thicker than my crusts. Is
> that the secret? Double up on ingrediets and make 'em twice as thick?
>
> I've tried more/less water, more/less shortening (not butter), colder,
> warmer, tapered pins, straight pins, chilled every ingredient in the
> house including tools, blah blah.... I matters not, the damn crust
> begins breaking up so badly I end of doing a patchwork crust. Also,
> now using the best ingredients. Pillsbury Best flour, Crisco, C&H sugar,
> dried salt from the ass crack of sea goddeses, etc. This is starting
> to **** me off!!

I'm a really good cook and baker but one thing I can rarely ever make right
is pie crust. I finally just gave up.

Had a roommate who rarely ever cooked but she could make a mean pie crust
without even using a recipe.

On 2011-01-16, Christine Dabney > wrote:

> Try this.
> http://articles.latimes.com/2007/feb...fo-calcook28/2
>
> Read the little insert that is on every page, and read the whole
> article..it is several pages long. The insert gives clearer
> directions on the amounts.

I'll read it tomorrow, but thanks Chris. I'm beat.

I jes took the finished pie 0ut of the oven and it looks and smells
great. Fresh blueberry made with tapioca. I'll take some pie slice
pics tomorrow and see if I can't get 'em up on my website. I've got
enough fresh blackberries and blueberries and crust fixins for 4 more
pies! I'm not giving up!

nb

On Jan 15, 11:31*pm, notbob > wrote:
> This pie crust thing is really starting to get to me. *I made 3
> attempts at crusts, today, all which failed miserably, IMO. *

One word:......PRACTICE! Three attempts do not make for an expert.
Don't give up...just keep working at it.

Once you perfect your method, you will find so many uses for a great
crust including pot pies, turnovers and deep fried pies.

I don't care for butter pastry. There is water in butter and that
doesn't make for flaky. I will always use shortening/lard
combination. Another little trick I learned is to add a half
teaspoon of baking powder to the flour mix. Will puff up the pastry
in a filled pie.

Good luck and keep practicing!! You can do it.

On Jan 16, 5:52*am, "Mr. Bill" > wrote:
> On Jan 15, 11:31*pm, notbob > wrote:
>
> > This pie crust thing is really starting to get to me. *I made 3
> > attempts at crusts, today, all which failed miserably, IMO. *
>
> One word:......PRACTICE! * Three attempts do not make for an expert.
> Don't give up...just keep working at it.
>
> Once you perfect your method, you will find so many uses for a great
> crust including pot pies, turnovers and deep fried pies.
>
> I don't care for butter pastry. *There is water in butter and that
> doesn't make for flaky. *I will always use shortening/lard
> combination. *

That's because you're a dumb hillBilly.

--Bryan

On Jan 15, 11:35*pm, Wayne Boatwright >
wrote:
> On Sat 15 Jan 2011 09:31:16p, notbob told us...
>
>
>
> > This pie crust thing is really starting to get to me. *I made 3
> > attempts at crusts, today, all which failed miserably, IMO. *
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxXYW...feature=relmfu
>
> > Look at the above video. *Absolutely no cracking at edges. *No
> > matter what I do, mine looks like the Arctic sea ice during the
> > Spring thaw or computer generated fractels. *Huge 1"-2" cracks at
> > the edge or just plain tearing in half when picked up. *It's
> > driving me nuts! *I do notice the above crust is about 2-3 times
> > thicker than my crusts. *Is that the secret? *Double up on
> > ingrediets and make 'em twice as thick?
>
> > I've tried more/less water, more/less shortening (not butter),
> > colder, warmer, tapered pins, straight pins, chilled every
> > ingredient in the house including tools, blah blah.... *I matters
> > not, the damn crust begins breaking up so badly I end of doing a
> > patchwork crust. *Also, now using the best ingredients. *Pillsbury
> > Best flour, Crisco, C&H sugar, dried salt from the ass crack of
> > sea goddeses, etc. *This is starting to **** me off!!
>
> > nb
>
> What you really need is to work side by side with someone who has no
> problem making pastry and learn more about both ingredients and
> technique. *As you're finding out, there are many variables that can
> effect a pie pastry. *I've *taught several friends that way, and
> they've never had a problem since then.
>
> Although I make several different types of crusts, my mainstay is the
> recipe that was on cans of Crisco back in the 1960s.
>
> 2-2/3 cup all-purpose flour
> 1 teaspoon salt
> 1 cup Crisco


Crisco is a good lubricant, eh Wayne, and I don't think it's even that
unhealthy when put into *that end* of the alimentary tract.
>
> * * * * * * * * * * *Wayne Boatwright

--Bryan

On Jan 15, 10:31*pm, notbob > wrote:
> This pie crust thing is really starting to get to me. *I made 3
> attempts at crusts, today, all which failed miserably, IMO. *
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxXYW...feature=relmfu
>
> Look at the above video. *Absolutely no cracking at edges. *No matter
> what I do, mine looks like the Arctic sea ice during the Spring thaw
> or computer generated fractels. *Huge 1"-2" cracks at the edge or just
> plain tearing in half when picked up. *It's driving me nuts! *I do
> notice the above crust is about 2-3 times thicker than my crusts. *Is
> that the secret? *Double up on ingrediets and make 'em twice as thick?
>
> I've tried more/less water, more/less shortening (not butter), colder,
> warmer, tapered pins, straight pins, chilled every ingredient in the
> house including tools, blah blah.... *I matters not, the damn crust
> begins breaking up so badly I end of doing a patchwork crust. *Also,
> now using the best ingredients. *Pillsbury Best flour, Crisco, C&H sugar,
> dried salt from the ass crack of sea goddeses, etc. *This is starting
> to **** me off!!

Crisco is not a "best ingredient." Talk about ass cracks. The only
thing that stuff is useful for is as an anal lubricant for buggery.
>
> nb

--Bryan

On Jan 16, 8:24*am, Janet > wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
>
>
> > This pie crust thing is really starting to get to me. *I made 3
> > attempts at crusts, today, all which failed miserably, IMO. *
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxXYW...feature=relmfu
>
> > Look at the above video.
>
> * I did. IMO the pastry was over-handled and much too thick.
> * I suspect you are an engineer, and that's your main *problem
> with pastry. Forget the physics and over-controlling the materials.
> Really good pastry needs a more hands-off, relaxed and intuitive
> approach, a bit like sex.

It's a balance Janet! You are correct, ease off the engineering
approach, but don't abandoned it completely. Careful control over
temperature and other factors are very important in baking, but so is
not over-worrying too! And always handle pie dough as little as
possible, because you do not want to "develop" the gluten as you would
while kneading a french bread dough or pizza crust to make it tough
and chewy. With pie dough you want the exact opposite!

And have fun with it! Don't worry so much about the perfect appearance
of the final product. My old boss in the donut shop years ago (a baker
from the old school) used to come in occasionally and invent some new
thing, and often it looked like hell, but tasted like heaven! ]

Baking is an art and a science. Use both!

John Kuthe...

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> This pie crust thing is really starting to get to me. I made 3
> attempts at crusts, today, all which failed miserably, IMO.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxXYW...feature=relmfu
>
> Look at the above video. Absolutely no cracking at edges. No matter
> what I do, mine looks like the Arctic sea ice during the Spring thaw
> or computer generated fractels. Huge 1"-2" cracks at the edge or just
> plain tearing in half when picked up. It's driving me nuts! I do
> notice the above crust is about 2-3 times thicker than my crusts. Is
> that the secret? Double up on ingrediets and make 'em twice as thick?
>
> I've tried more/less water, more/less shortening (not butter), colder,
> warmer, tapered pins, straight pins, chilled every ingredient in the
> house including tools, blah blah.... I matters not, the damn crust
> begins breaking up so badly I end of doing a patchwork crust. Also,
> now using the best ingredients. Pillsbury Best flour, Crisco, C&H sugar,
> dried salt from the ass crack of sea goddeses, etc. This is starting
> to **** me off!!
>
> nb
Ages ago, I stopped chilling the dough before rolling it out as I found that
chilled dough always cracked. That dough in the clip didn't look chilled to
me.
Graham

On Jan 16, 8:36*am, "graham" > wrote:
> "notbob" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > This pie crust thing is really starting to get to me. *I made 3
> > attempts at crusts, today, all which failed miserably, IMO.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxXYW...feature=relmfu
>
> > Look at the above video. *Absolutely no cracking at edges. *No matter
> > what I do, mine looks like the Arctic sea ice during the Spring thaw
> > or computer generated fractels. *Huge 1"-2" cracks at the edge or just
> > plain tearing in half when picked up. *It's driving me nuts! *I do
> > notice the above crust is about 2-3 times thicker than my crusts. *Is
> > that the secret? *Double up on ingrediets and make 'em twice as thick?
>
> > I've tried more/less water, more/less shortening (not butter), colder,
> > warmer, tapered pins, straight pins, chilled every ingredient in the
> > house including tools, blah blah.... *I matters not, the damn crust
> > begins breaking up so badly I end of doing a patchwork crust. *Also,
> > now using the best ingredients. *Pillsbury Best flour, Crisco, C&H sugar,
> > dried salt from the ass crack of sea goddeses, etc. *This is starting
> > to **** me off!!
>
> > nb
>
> Ages ago, I stopped chilling the dough before rolling it out as I found that
> chilled dough always cracked. *That dough in the clip didn't look chilled to
> me.
> Graham

I roll out my pie dough at cool to room temp. I put my pie dough in a
cool place to rest after mixing. If I put it in the refrigerator to
rest, I take it out and let it come up to room temp before rolling
out.

John Kuthe...

On 2011-01-16, graham > wrote:

> Ages ago, I stopped chilling the dough before rolling it out as I found that
> chilled dough always cracked. That dough in the clip didn't look chilled to
> me.

I've been wondering about that since last night. When I rolled out
the first crust, freshly chilled out of the fridge, it cracked all
over the place, tore in the middle, in short, ripped and split at the
slightest touch. I barely got dough into the pan. Badly patched, but
good enough, I started on the other crust.

It was from the same batch and spent the same amt of time in the
fridge, but was much easier to roll. Less major splitting at edges
and I was able to roll it all the way out to about 10-11 inches and
just got it onto the pie over the fruit. The only difference between
the two was the 2nd crust had more time to warm up while sitting on
the counter.

With all this constant obsession with cold this, cold that, cold
counters and ice filled rolling pins, yada yada, I'm beginning to
wonder if you are right about the warmer dough, when rolling, graham.
I have a single crust in the freezer and will let it defrost and see
if a warmer crust might roll out with less cracking.

Thanks.

nb

On 2011-01-16, Janet > wrote:

>> I did. IMO the pastry was over-handled and much too thick.
>> I suspect you are an engineer, and that's your main problem
>> with pastry. Forget the physics and over-controlling the materials.

You notice, that did you!?

>> Really good pastry needs a more hands-off, relaxed and intuitive
>> approach, a bit like sex.

No wonder I can't do it!

Actually, I'n not so controlling as being fanatical about following a
recipe. I was also always good at "reading the manual".

>> spread I use in sandwiches. The kind of fat is not crucial, but it
>> should be straight from the fridge.

Ok, I can see how cold fat is important. I also think I might be
overcutting in the fat. More reading seems to indicate one needs only
coat the fat pieces with flour, not make it thoroughly mixed.

>> ball in a plastic bag in the fridge; for at least 15 mins, but several
>> hours is okay, until you are ready to cook the pie. Preheat the oven
>> and get your filling ready, before fetching the pastry from the fridge.
>> Lightly flour the rolling pin ( I prefer straight -side wooden pin) and
>> rolling space (I favour stainless steel counter top
>> because it's cool). But if pushed, a jam jar and kitchen table top is
>> fine.
>
> The commonest error is over-wetting, overhandling and over-rolling the
> pastry. I never touch the pastry with my palms (fingers are cooler).

I may be over-wetting, but know I'm not overhandling, a no-no I
learned a long time ago with biscuits. As for overrolling, not sure
how one can avoid that. Gotta roll it out till it's big enough. The
only other handling I may be doing is re-patching the huge split
pieces back togethor, something I spen almost more time on than
actually rolling, which seems pretty straight forward.

Thank you for taking time to share your insights and tips, Janet.
I'll keep at it.

nb

On 16/01/2011 12:35 AM, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Sat 15 Jan 2011 09:31:16p, notbob told us...
>
>> This pie crust thing is really starting to get to me. I made 3
>> attempts at crusts, today, all which failed miserably, IMO.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxXYW...feature=relmfu
>>
>> Look at the above video. Absolutely no cracking at edges. No
>> matter what I do, mine looks like the Arctic sea ice during the
>> Spring thaw or computer generated fractels. Huge 1"-2" cracks at
>> the edge or just plain tearing in half when picked up. It's
>> driving me nuts! I do notice the above crust is about 2-3 times
>> thicker than my crusts. Is that the secret? Double up on
>> ingrediets and make 'em twice as thick?
>>
>> I've tried more/less water, more/less shortening (not butter),
>> colder, warmer, tapered pins, straight pins, chilled every
>> ingredient in the house including tools, blah blah.... I matters
>> not, the damn crust begins breaking up so badly I end of doing a
>> patchwork crust. Also, now using the best ingredients. Pillsbury
>> Best flour, Crisco, C&H sugar, dried salt from the ass crack of
>> sea goddeses, etc. This is starting to **** me off!!
>>
>> nb
>
> What you really need is to work side by side with someone who has no
> problem making pastry and learn more about both ingredients and
> technique. As you're finding out, there are many variables that can
> effect a pie pastry. I've taught several friends that way, and
> they've never had a problem since then.
>
> Although I make several different types of crusts, my mainstay is the
> recipe that was on cans of Crisco back in the 1960s.
>
> 2-2/3 cup all-purpose flour
> 1 teaspoon salt
> 1 cup Crisco
> 6-8 tablespoons ice water


Mine is the one that was on the Crisco box here until recently

2 cups flour
1 cup Crisco
1 egg
1 tbsp vinegar
2 tbsp cold water

Sometimes I use the same recipe with lard instead of shortening.

On 16/01/2011 9:28 AM, Bryan wrote:

>
> Crisco is not a "best ingredient." Talk about ass cracks. The only
> thing that stuff is useful for is as an anal lubricant for buggery.
>>


We will have to defer to your experience.

On 16/01/2011 9:43 AM, Janet wrote:

>
> The commonest error is over-wetting, overhandling and over-rolling the
> pastry. I never touch the pastry with my palms (fingers are cooler).
>
>

Confession time.... I often make up my pie dough, split it into two,
form balls, press them out by hand and roll it out immediately.... and
it works fine.

Maybe there is a fear factor with pie dough. Some people seem to be
afraid of it and end up having problems. Others feel comfortable and
have no problems with it. Personally, I find pie dough very easy to make
and work with.

On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 11:12:07 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 16/01/2011 9:43 AM, Janet wrote:
>
>>
>> The commonest error is over-wetting, overhandling and over-rolling the
>> pastry. I never touch the pastry with my palms (fingers are cooler).
>>
>>
>
>Confession time.... I often make up my pie dough, split it into two,
>form balls, press them out by hand and roll it out immediately.... and
>it works fine.
>
>Maybe there is a fear factor with pie dough. Some people seem to be
>afraid of it and end up having problems. Others feel comfortable and
>have no problems with it. Personally, I find pie dough very easy to make
>and work with.

At cool times of the year or if one has an air conditioned kitchen,
that works perfectly well, but when fruits and berries are at their
local best and the temp in the kitchen is in the high 80s, a rest in
the fridge helps.

The other reason for putting the dough aside is to allow the gluten to
relax.

Boron

In article >,
Janet > wrote:

> Really good pastry needs a more hands-off, . . . approach, a bit like
> sex.

Well, where's the fun in that?!
--
Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Holy Order of the Sacred Sisters of St. Pectina of Jella
"Always in a jam, never in a stew; sometimes in a pickle."
Pepparkakor particulars posted 11-29-2010;
http://web.me.com/barbschaller

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> On 2011-01-16, graham > wrote:
>
>> Ages ago, I stopped chilling the dough before rolling it out as I found
>> that
>> chilled dough always cracked. That dough in the clip didn't look chilled
>> to
>> me.
>
> I've been wondering about that since last night. When I rolled out
> the first crust, freshly chilled out of the fridge, it cracked all
> over the place, tore in the middle, in short, ripped and split at the
> slightest touch. I barely got dough into the pan. Badly patched, but
> good enough, I started on the other crust.
>
> It was from the same batch and spent the same amt of time in the
> fridge, but was much easier to roll. Less major splitting at edges
> and I was able to roll it all the way out to about 10-11 inches and
> just got it onto the pie over the fruit. The only difference between
> the two was the 2nd crust had more time to warm up while sitting on
> the counter.
>
> With all this constant obsession with cold this, cold that, cold
> counters and ice filled rolling pins, yada yada, I'm beginning to
> wonder if you are right about the warmer dough, when rolling, graham.
> I have a single crust in the freezer and will let it defrost and see
> if a warmer crust might roll out with less cracking.
>
> Thanks.
>

Please post your findings!!

My Mother made superb pastry and always rolled it out and used it
immediately on making it (we didn't have a fridge when I was a child in the
UK, not many did). I am sure that the plain flour she used was softer than
the AP flour commonly in much of the US and Canada so it wouldn't need time
to relax the gluten. I never use AP flour for pastry and always use "cake
and pastry" flour and roll it out immediately. I do, however, chill the
fats, butter and/or lard, (I NEVER use that abomination called Crisco) as it
is very important to keep the fat from turning oily and thus being absorbed
by the flour.
Incidentally, AP flour in the northern US and Canada is "harder" than the
type used by French bakers to make baguettes.
Graham

On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 11:37:04 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Janet > wrote:
>
>> Really good pastry needs a more hands-off, . . . approach, a bit like
>> sex.
>
>Well, where's the fun in that?!

Many don't work their pie crust cold enough and they over blend the
shortening into the flour... it's better to stop blending when there
are still large pieces of shortening (makes a lighter flakier crust)
and a good trick is to use flour direct from the freezer... also,
especially for noobies, don't try to roll crusts too thin. And don't
bother to patch in pieces lest the dough is overworked, simply cut
extra dough into shapes and use to decorate the top crust while
covering tears/holes... egg wash makes good glue.

On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 07:36:00 -0700, "graham" > wrote:

> Ages ago, I stopped chilling the dough before rolling it out as I found that
> chilled dough always cracked. That dough in the clip didn't look chilled to
> me.

I agree that chilling will initiate a cracked edge, but the cracks
aren't so bad that I can't cut them off. Personal experience has told
me that dough needs to rest, but it's a whole lot easier to roll dough
before it's been in the refrigerator. So next time I make a crust, I
will roll it out first and then let it rest in the refrigerator.

--

Carrot cake counts as a serving of vegetables.

On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 06:41:51 -0800 (PST), John Kuthe
> wrote:

> If I put it in the refrigerator to rest, I take it out and let it come up to room
> temp before rolling out.

I've tried to do that, but I guess I'm too impatient. How long to you
leave it out? Say the room is 65°.

--

Carrot cake counts as a serving of vegetables.

On 16/01/2011 12:53 PM, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Sun 16 Jan 2011 09:04:22a, Dave Smith told us...
>
>> On 16/01/2011 12:35 AM, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> On Sat 15 Jan 2011 09:31:16p, notbob told us...
>>>
>>>> This pie crust thing is really starting to get to me. I made 3
>>>> attempts at crusts, today, all which failed miserably, IMO.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxXYW...feature=relmfu
>>>>
>>>> Look at the above video. Absolutely no cracking at edges. No
>>>> matter what I do, mine looks like the Arctic sea ice during the
>>>> Spring thaw or computer generated fractels. Huge 1"-2" cracks
>>>> at the edge or just plain tearing in half when picked up. It's
>>>> driving me nuts! I do notice the above crust is about 2-3 times
>>>> thicker than my crusts. Is that the secret? Double up on
>>>> ingrediets and make 'em twice as thick?
>>>>
>>>> I've tried more/less water, more/less shortening (not butter),
>>>> colder, warmer, tapered pins, straight pins, chilled every
>>>> ingredient in the house including tools, blah blah.... I
>>>> matters not, the damn crust begins breaking up so badly I end of
>>>> doing a patchwork crust. Also, now using the best ingredients.
>>>> Pillsbury Best flour, Crisco, C&H sugar, dried salt from the ass
>>>> crack of sea goddeses, etc. This is starting to **** me off!!
>>>>
>>>> nb
>>>
>>> What you really need is to work side by side with someone who has
>>> no problem making pastry and learn more about both ingredients
>>> and technique. As you're finding out, there are many variables
>>> that can effect a pie pastry. I've taught several friends that
>>> way, and they've never had a problem since then.
>>>
>>> Although I make several different types of crusts, my mainstay is
>>> the recipe that was on cans of Crisco back in the 1960s.
>>>
>>> 2-2/3 cup all-purpose flour
>>> 1 teaspoon salt
>>> 1 cup Crisco
>>> 6-8 tablespoons ice water
>>
>>
>> Mine is the one that was on the Crisco box here until recently
>>
>> 2 cups flour
>> 1 cup Crisco
>> 1 egg
>> 1 tbsp vinegar
>> 2 tbsp cold water
>>
>> Sometimes I use the same recipe with lard instead of shortening.
>>
>
> I'll have to give that one a try sometime, Dave. Does it produce a
> flaky or crumbly baked crust?
>
Flaky

On 16 Jan 2011 15:28:26 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> With all this constant obsession with cold this, cold that, cold
> counters and ice filled rolling pins, yada yada, I'm beginning to
> wonder if you are right about the warmer dough, when rolling, graham.
> I have a single crust in the freezer and will let it defrost and see
> if a warmer crust might roll out with less cracking.

I think cold is the key when cutting your fat into the butter. I
froze my butter cubes the last time I made dough and it worked
great... but I have a food processor that I use to make dough now. It
wouldn't work if I was using my hands.

I know dough needs to rest, but like you - I'm questioning "how cold
is cold?"

--

Carrot cake counts as a serving of vegetables.

On 16/01/2011 12:53 PM, Janet wrote:
one can avoid that. Gotta roll it out till it's big enough.
>
> Rolling only needs a few passes at very light pressure. No need to
> crush the pastry into submission with the full strength of your manly
> physique.
>

It also helps to roll in different directions. Don't just got up and
down and side to side.

On 16/01/2011 1:10 PM, graham wrote:

> My Mother made superb pastry and always rolled it out and used it
> immediately on making it (we didn't have a fridge when I was a child in the
> UK, not many did). I am sure that the plain flour she used was softer than
> the AP flour commonly in much of the US and Canada so it wouldn't need time
> to relax the gluten. I never use AP flour for pastry and always use "cake
> and pastry" flour and roll it out immediately. I do, however, chill the
> fats, butter and/or lard, (I NEVER use that abomination called Crisco) as it
> is very important to keep the fat from turning oily and thus being absorbed
> by the flour.


I use all purpose flour and I use Crisco and I get a lot of compliments
about my pie crusts.

On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 13:29:59 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 16/01/2011 12:53 PM, Janet wrote:
> one can avoid that. Gotta roll it out till it's big enough.
> >
> > Rolling only needs a few passes at very light pressure. No need to
> > crush the pastry into submission with the full strength of your manly
> > physique.
> >
>
> It also helps to roll in different directions. Don't just got up and
> down and side to side.

I think he turns the pastry with almost every pass.

--

Carrot cake counts as a serving of vegetables.

On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 13:32:28 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 16/01/2011 1:10 PM, graham wrote:
>
> > My Mother made superb pastry and always rolled it out and used it
> > immediately on making it (we didn't have a fridge when I was a child in the
> > UK, not many did). I am sure that the plain flour she used was softer than
> > the AP flour commonly in much of the US and Canada so it wouldn't need time
> > to relax the gluten. I never use AP flour for pastry and always use "cake
> > and pastry" flour and roll it out immediately. I do, however, chill the
> > fats, butter and/or lard, (I NEVER use that abomination called Crisco) as it
> > is very important to keep the fat from turning oily and thus being absorbed
> > by the flour.
>
>
> I use all purpose flour and I use Crisco and I get a lot of compliments
> about my pie crusts.

The best pie crust maker I know does that too, plus she uses the
recipe on the Crisco label.

--

Carrot cake counts as a serving of vegetables.

On 2011-01-16, graham > wrote:

> Please post your findings!!

That's a big 10-4!

> My Mother made superb pastry and always rolled it out and used it
> immediately on making it....

I'll definitely be trying warmer dough.

> and pastry" flour and roll it out immediately. I do, however, chill the
> fats, butter and/or lard, (I NEVER use that abomination called
> Crisco)....

Likewise on the chilled fats.

I have a lrg can of Crisco, about half used. I'll start trying butter
when I run out. OTOH, of my two pies, the baked crusts have been,
despite my dough rolling complaints, absolutely brilliant in flavor
and texture. I will never use another frozen pie crust or buy a
supermarket pie, ever again, no matter how much grief the crust is to
roll out. Store-bought crusts are weak, thin, and soggy in
comparison. The biggest shock in my two pie attempts, is, despite my
shortcomings and mistakes, they've been miles above the crap sold in
stores. That enough reason to continue, right there!

> Incidentally, AP flour in the northern US and Canada is "harder" than the
> type used by French bakers to make baguettes.

The US has soft Winter wheat. White Lily and Martha White both sell
it. Now that Smuckers has their shipping depts operating again, I'll be
buying some, soon


> Graham
>
>

On 16/01/2011 1:49 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 13:29:59 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> On 16/01/2011 12:53 PM, Janet wrote:
>> one can avoid that. Gotta roll it out till it's big enough.
>>>
>>> Rolling only needs a few passes at very light pressure. No need to
>>> crush the pastry into submission with the full strength of your manly
>>> physique.
>>>
>>
>> It also helps to roll in different directions. Don't just got up and
>> down and side to side.
>
> I think he turns the pastry with almost every pass.
>

I turn the roller instead. up, down, side to side, then diagonally.

On 16/01/2011 1:52 PM, sf wrote:

>>
>>> My Mother made superb pastry and always rolled it out and used it
>>> immediately on making it (we didn't have a fridge when I was a child in the
>>> UK, not many did). I am sure that the plain flour she used was softer than
>>> the AP flour commonly in much of the US and Canada so it wouldn't need time
>>> to relax the gluten. I never use AP flour for pastry and always use "cake
>>> and pastry" flour and roll it out immediately. I do, however, chill the
>>> fats, butter and/or lard, (I NEVER use that abomination called Crisco) as it
>>> is very important to keep the fat from turning oily and thus being absorbed
>>> by the flour.
>>
>>
>> I use all purpose flour and I use Crisco and I get a lot of compliments
>> about my pie crusts.
>
> The best pie crust maker I know does that too, plus she uses the
> recipe on the Crisco label.
>

It is always interesting to hear someone scorn your methods and
ingredients while enjoying the results yourself and having so many
compliments.

On 2011-01-16, graham > wrote:


> Please post your findings!!

OK, here's one.

I used Kraft Instant Tapioca flakes instead of flour or cornstarch. I
don't know about cornstarch, not having used it yet, but the tapioca
has it all over flour. The blueberry filling came out moist and clear
with none of flour's cloudy appearance. It seems to add nothing in
the way of flavor, too. Just a nice glossy thickener. It's a bit
pricey at about $3+ per 8 oz (vol) box, but I only needed 2 oz in the
pie. Maybe I can find it cheaper in bulk at health food store.

nb

On 2011-01-16, Dave Smith > wrote:

> I turn the roller instead. up, down, side to side, then diagonally.

I have one of those tapered rolling pins. It turns on a dime, but can
make for uneven crust if not carefull. The jury is still out on this
one.

nb

On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 14:17:42 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 16/01/2011 1:49 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 13:29:59 -0500, Dave Smith
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> On 16/01/2011 12:53 PM, Janet wrote:
> >> one can avoid that. Gotta roll it out till it's big enough.
> >>>
> >>> Rolling only needs a few passes at very light pressure. No need to
> >>> crush the pastry into submission with the full strength of your manly
> >>> physique.
> >>>
> >>
> >> It also helps to roll in different directions. Don't just got up and
> >> down and side to side.
> >
> > I think he turns the pastry with almost every pass.
> >
>
> I turn the roller instead. up, down, side to side, then diagonally.

How do you keep the bottom from sticking?

--

Carrot cake counts as a serving of vegetables.

On 16/01/2011 2:33 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2011-01-16, Dave > wrote:
>
>> I turn the roller instead. up, down, side to side, then diagonally.
>
> I have one of those tapered rolling pins. It turns on a dime, but can
> make for uneven crust if not carefull. The jury is still out on this
> one.


I use a French (tapered) rolling pin. I may not be lifting it up to
turn, but I do not have pressure on it when I do change the angle. I may
not be articulate enough to describe the exact technique for rolling the
dough into a circle. The best I can suggest is that when you roll in a
particular direction the dough moves in that direction, so you just have
to keep and eye on it and when it starts getting oblong you have to go
widthwise instead of lengthwise.

The texture of of the dough can change considerably doe various reasons.
When the dough is just right, it tends to roll of into a nice circle
without any effort just by rotating the rolling angle.

On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 14:19:36 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 16/01/2011 1:52 PM, sf wrote:
>
> >
> > The best pie crust maker I know does that too, plus she uses the
> > recipe on the Crisco label.
> >
>
> It is always interesting to hear someone scorn your methods and
> ingredients while enjoying the results yourself and having so many
> compliments.

And then it turns out the scorner never does it himself, he's just
criticizing... something that takes a set of big brass balls.
Unfortunately, the people they intimidate are those who don't feel
confident talking to strangers on the internet about what they do in
the kitchen - so they just stay silent and continue to lurk.

--

Carrot cake counts as a serving of vegetables.

On 16 Jan 2011 19:29:43 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> I used Kraft Instant Tapioca flakes instead of flour or cornstarch.

Tapioca flakes? That's a new one on me. I want to look for it. Is
it up there on the shelf with tapioca pearls or in a different
section?

--

Carrot cake counts as a serving of vegetables.

On 16 Jan 2011 19:33:18 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> On 2011-01-16, Dave Smith > wrote:
>
> > I turn the roller instead. up, down, side to side, then diagonally.
>
> I have one of those tapered rolling pins. It turns on a dime, but can
> make for uneven crust if not carefull. The jury is still out on this
> one.
>

I told you to use (buy) the one that's the same thickness from end to
end. Still haven't figured out why anyone needs a tapered one.


--

Carrot cake counts as a serving of vegetables.

On 16/01/2011 2:44 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 14:19:36 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> On 16/01/2011 1:52 PM, sf wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The best pie crust maker I know does that too, plus she uses the
>>> recipe on the Crisco label.
>>>
>>
>> It is always interesting to hear someone scorn your methods and
>> ingredients while enjoying the results yourself and having so many
>> compliments.
>
> And then it turns out the scorner never does it himself, he's just
> criticizing... something that takes a set of big brass balls.
> Unfortunately, the people they intimidate are those who don't feel
> confident talking to strangers on the internet about what they do in
> the kitchen - so they just stay silent and continue to lurk.
>

I make no claim to being the world's greatest baker, but I do have lots
of experience with pies. Over the last 30 yers I have probably made at
least 3 pies per month. Some have been better than others, but I can
tell you that I rarely buy pies. The cheap pies aren't worth eating and
the expensive pies from good bakeries are no better than I make.

There is one exception. Last year the little bakery in town was selling
fresh sour cherry pies in season for $6.99. It's at least $4.50 for a
quart of fresh cherries and it takes more than half an hour to pit them.
Her pastry is pretty good, and it means I am paying about $1.50 for
someone else to bake on one of the hottest days of the year.