On 2/10/2010 3:13 AM, Steve B wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 10/1/2010 4:42 AM, Nancy2 wrote:
>>> On Sep 30, 6:48 pm, > wrote:
>>>> On 9/30/2010 11:16 AM, Nancy2 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> some useful information on that series. I used to watch "Dog the
>>>>> Bounty
>>>>>> Hunter." My wife can't bear to watch it but I have a strange
>>>>>> fascination
>>>>>> with grown men sobbing like little schoolgirls...- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>
>>>>> ...twisted. I like that in a person. LOL.
>>>>
>>>>> N.
>>>>
>>>> Twisted - you'd be surprised at how often I get that reaction from
>>>> people. Then again, maybe not. I'll have to check out Mr. Ramsey's
>>>> program - has he ever bawled like a little schoolgirl on his show? That
>>>> would be cool. :-)
>>>
>>> Nope, it's his targets who bawl. I've never seen Ramsey ever tear up
>>> - although he does come across as warm and sympathetic with employees
>>> and owners' relatives who have no say in how badly the restaurant is
>>> being run.
>>>
>>> N.
>>
>> I've seen a couple of programs where big macho guys will get all teary
>> eyed and sentimental and start whimpering. My brain tends to have a hard
>> time accepting what's on the screen sometimes. Sex and violence on TV, I
>> can understand - but this?
>
> We've seen everything else there is to see. They're looking for virgin
> territory, even if it is guys who clean out sewers, or people who dig
> quahogs, or simple fishermen, or swamp people who eat alligators before they
> eat them.
>
> We've come a long way since Jerry Springer. I'm just not sure which
> direction.
>
> Steve
>
>
From this perspective, you're going backwards fast!

Krypsis

On 10/1/2010 4:44 PM, sf wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 15:45:21 -1000, >
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/1/2010 2:32 PM, sf wrote:
>>> What they did to those poor cars was the other side of ridiculous.
>>>
>>> We watch one set in a Las Vegas pawn shop Father/son/grandson and
>>> "Chumley" and the one that's two men who travel middle American
>>> looking at junk that they call antiques. Neither is appointment
>>> television, but we'll watch if we stumble across one.
>>>
>>> I'm pretty much hooked on House Hunters International. I watched 3 in
>>> a row last night. I like Selling New York too, but never know when
>>> it's on so I rarely catch it.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I think you show good taste in your choice of TV fare.
>
> Heh! I'm stuck in a rut. I don't have appointment television even
> with Mad Men, which I LOVE.... I do like Curb Appeal and various
> decorating shows that have morphed over the years. I miss Christopher
> What's His Name from a million years ago on HGTV and now I like the
> skinny 6 foot+ blond who can decorate almost as good as he did. I
> also liked Lisa La Porto (spelling?) who was on Designed to Sell
> redo's. all of those shows that tell you that you can spend only
> $1000, $2000 to redecorate/redo.... sure that the cost of MATERIALS,
> mainly scraps materials and garage sales. What about labor? That's
> another $10,000 + easily. The general audience doesn't have their
> design sense or construction tools, so that's what we pay the money
> for in real life. Irritating. Tell us the *real* cost - materials
> PLUS labor... and it's all done in a weekend. Yeah, right.
>
>
>

It would be great to learn on these shows about the total and real costs
of remodeling and redecorating but mostly we have to fend for ourselves
and get educated the hard way or rely on a experienced person. You
really have to keep your wits about you when doing one of these - it's
tricky!

On 10/1/2010 5:51 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "dsi1" > wrote
>> The series was called "American Chopper" and combined brilliant custom
>> motorcycle design and fabrication against a backdrop of a
>> dysfunctional father/son relationship. The current offshoot of the
>> series is called "American Chopper: Senior vs. Junior" - I kid you
>> not. I haven't watched that show because the title is a turn-off for me.
>
>
> I watched 15 minutes of it. Horrid. It used to be interesting to watch a
> bike being built, but now it is more soap opera drama than motorcycle.

This is true - your average gear head ain't really interested in drama.
Well, maybe a slight bit is OK. :-)

On 10/2/2010 12:42 AM, atec77 wrote:
> On 2/10/2010 8:30 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>> On 10/1/2010 5:51 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>> "dsi1" > wrote
>>>> The series was called "American Chopper" and combined brilliant custom
>>>> motorcycle design and fabrication against a backdrop of a
>>>> dysfunctional father/son relationship. The current offshoot of the
>>>> series is called "American Chopper: Senior vs. Junior" - I kid you
>>>> not. I haven't watched that show because the title is a turn-off for
>>>> me.
>>>
>>>
>>> I watched 15 minutes of it. Horrid. It used to be interesting to watch a
>>> bike being built, but now it is more soap opera drama than motorcycle.
>>
>> This is true - your average gear head ain't really interested in drama.
>> Well, maybe a slight bit is OK. :-)
> I watched maybe 20 minutes at a friends place recently
>
> I left wondering how a pair of overgrown kiddies like these managed to
> get on telly ?
> the bikes looked fair but the behaviour needs a really big leather strap
> across their nether regions ( a basic bitchslap)although I do expect
> they would enjoy that
>

Sounds like the Teutuls may have jumped the shark with this one. :-)

On 01/10/2010 11:51 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "dsi1" > wrote
>> The series was called "American Chopper" and combined brilliant custom
>> motorcycle design and fabrication against a backdrop of a
>> dysfunctional father/son relationship. The current offshoot of the
>> series is called "American Chopper: Senior vs. Junior" - I kid you
>> not. I haven't watched that show because the title is a turn-off for me.
>
>
> I watched 15 minutes of it. Horrid. It used to be interesting to watch a
> bike being built, but now it is more soap opera drama than motorcycle.

It could have been well done as a how to type of show. They could show
the design, how the special parts were fabricated, how they adapted them
to fit the bike etc. But nope..... it's about characters, egos and
interpersonal dynamics. No thanks.

Back to the subject of Gordon Ramsey... he has good ideas about cooking,
service and how to run a restaurant, but I don't know how he would treat
employees in real life. I don't think that i would want to eat in a
restaurant where kitchen staff are abused like that. I wouldn't want to
be the target of revenge.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "dsi1" > wrote
>> The series was called "American Chopper" and combined brilliant custom
>> motorcycle design and fabrication against a backdrop of a dysfunctional
>> father/son relationship. The current offshoot of the series is called
>> "American Chopper: Senior vs. Junior" - I kid you not. I haven't watched
>> that show because the title is a turn-off for me.
>
>
> I watched 15 minutes of it. Horrid. It used to be interesting to watch a
> bike being built, but now it is more soap opera drama than motorcycle.

I don't call tack welding without a hood in a t shirt have anything to do
with building a bike. Or holding up a handlebar with one's hand and saying,
"There, that's about right." They essentially show a couple of guys hot
gluing some ideas and drawings together, and the next thing, dontcha know,
there's a fine looking CNC produced, finely TIGGED, artistically painted,
chromed bike rolling out.

Golllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, Goober.

Steve

"Krypsis" > wrote

>> We've come a long way since Jerry Springer. I'm just not sure which
>> direction.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
> From this perspective, you're going backwards fast!
>
> Krypsis

When, in retrospect, Jerry Springer starts looking like adolescent foreplay,
I must heartily agree with you.

Steve

"Steve B" > wrote in message
...
>I watch Ramsey's program.
>
> I like it.
>
> I like it because he tells the truth. I like it because he confronts
> owner/operators with the truth and holds up a mirror. I guess no one
> notices that, that he does not give specific instructions as how to
> operate, manage, but only to show the owner/operators how things work when
> you do it THIS way.
>
> Some of these people should NEVER EVER have gone into the restaurant
> business.
>
> I would NEVER EVER consider going into a restaurant business. I have
> owned bars, and the profit margin is much greater. The management and
> success of a restaurant is based on so many unpredictable and predictable
> things. Food spoils, booze doesn't.
>
> Mr. Ramsey's show deals with the restaurants that are just about to go
> over the falls, so it is apparent that there has been a failure on one or
> more of the component parts.
>
> When you hear why some of these people went into the restaurant business,
> and what they have spent money on, and how they have squandered profits,
> and all of what the general business population would call "bad choices",
> it is apparent that a lot of them are self indulgent creeps who have an
> inheritance, or some other source of funds who want to set up their own
> little living room situation every evening. There are a lot of them who
> insist that mingling with the crowd is more important than good food.
>
> All Gordon Ramsey does is hold up a mirror. How the restaurant owner
> takes that impression is up to them. They are getting a HUGE consultant
> service essentially for free, and yet a lot of them totally disregard it.
>
> I am very happy to see the shows where they go back and visit the
> restaurants a year later, and the owners/operators have learned to operate
> the business, or at least live within their income.
>
> When someone commits suicide, there is always the category of blame. The
> truth of the matter is that the person would have committed suicide
> anyway, regardless of who they claim to have caused it. It's always
> someone else's fault, according to the person committing suicide.
>
> There is no blame or fault at all. There isn't even any responsibility.
> It's merely a personal choice that some people still cannot even after
> death take responsibility for, as they have had a life full of bad
> personal choices, and it has ALWAYS been someone else's fault.
>
> I speak from personal experience.
>
> Steve
>

I haven't heard (nor do I care about) someone who committed suicide, but you
can hardly blame Gordon Ramsay for that. As for the show 'Kitchen
Nightmares'... have you ever looked into those kitchens on the show? Ever
seen the mouldy crap he's pulled out of their walk-in refrigerators? And
they're serving this to customers? EWWWWWW! Or serving nothing but frozen
food... I remember seeing one show where they were right on a lake and it
was a seafood restaurant. You're not getting fresh fish? Nope, they were
buying frozen crap. Come on!

They are invariably family-owned restaurants, too. No one wants to tell
"Dad" he's a lousy cook. But guess what? You are and you don't belong in
the kitchen. The places are filthy, the food sucks and they wonder why
customers aren't lining up at the door.

Gordon's crew goes in, refits the kitchens with totally new appliances,
spruces up the dining rooms, gives them a simpler menu and teaches them how
to cook it. Opening night is always a fun thing to watch as the customers
appreciate good food for a change

If anyone killed themself over a failing restaurant it's because they ran it
into the ground. All by themself.

Jill

"sf" > wrote in message
...
>
> Neither one did it during a show taping, but they had participated on
> one of his shows in the past. Obviously they were unstable, you don't
> commit suicide just because someone calls you stupid on television.
>
> <http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheet/item/rachel-brown-hells-kitchen-and-joseph-cerniglia-commit-suicide/reality-tv-nightmare/>
>
> <http://uktodaynews.com/9127/joseph-cerniglia-becomes-second-gordon-ramsay-contestant-after-rachel-brown-hells-kitchen-to-commit-suicide/>
>
>

The only reason this is linked is because he was on 'Kitchen Nigtmares'
which brought him in contact with Gordon Ramsay (which, BTW, I wish people
would spell correctly! It's Ramsay, not Ramsey.) I'm pretty sure this guy
was in way over his head even before he came into contact with Ramsay. The
guy (Cerneglia) was unstable to begin with and failing in the restaurant
business just put him over the top.

Restaurants are hard work. I sure as hell wouldn't work in one again.
Forget about owning one!

Jill

jmcquown wrote:

> The only reason this is linked is because he was on 'Kitchen
> Nigtmares' which brought him in contact with Gordon Ramsay (which,
> BTW, I wish people would spell correctly! It's Ramsay, not Ramsey.)
> I'm pretty sure this guy was in way over his head even before he came
> into contact with Ramsay. The guy (Cerneglia) was unstable to begin
> with and failing in the restaurant business just put him over the top.

I caught an interview where the guy's sister says Gordon and he
kept in touch and were friends. Just in case there was any lingering
doubt Gordon's restaurant makeover had anything to do with the
suicide. The sister says they have been much more successful
since the show.

I haven't seen all the episodes of the show but I caught that one.
If memory serves, people were routinely asking for takeout containers
before they even ate a bite because he served enormous plates that
were piled with food. And not charging all that much.

nancy

jmcquown wrote:
> "Steve B" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I watch Ramsey's program.
>>
>> I like it.
>>
>> I like it because he tells the truth. I like it because he confronts
>> owner/operators with the truth and holds up a mirror. I guess no one
>> notices that, that he does not give specific instructions as how to
>> operate, manage, but only to show the owner/operators how things work
>> when you do it THIS way.
>>
>> Some of these people should NEVER EVER have gone into the restaurant
>> business.
>>
>> I would NEVER EVER consider going into a restaurant business. I have
>> owned bars, and the profit margin is much greater. The management
>> and success of a restaurant is based on so many unpredictable and
>> predictable things. Food spoils, booze doesn't.
>>
>> Mr. Ramsey's show deals with the restaurants that are just about to
>> go over the falls, so it is apparent that there has been a failure on
>> one or more of the component parts.
>>
>> When you hear why some of these people went into the restaurant
>> business, and what they have spent money on, and how they have
>> squandered profits, and all of what the general business population
>> would call "bad choices", it is apparent that a lot of them are self
>> indulgent creeps who have an inheritance, or some other source of
>> funds who want to set up their own little living room situation every
>> evening. There are a lot of them who insist that mingling with the
>> crowd is more important than good food.
>>
>> All Gordon Ramsey does is hold up a mirror. How the restaurant owner
>> takes that impression is up to them. They are getting a HUGE
>> consultant service essentially for free, and yet a lot of them
>> totally disregard it.
>>
>> I am very happy to see the shows where they go back and visit the
>> restaurants a year later, and the owners/operators have learned to
>> operate the business, or at least live within their income.
>>
>> When someone commits suicide, there is always the category of blame.
>> The truth of the matter is that the person would have committed
>> suicide anyway, regardless of who they claim to have caused it. It's
>> always someone else's fault, according to the person committing suicide.
>>
>> There is no blame or fault at all. There isn't even any
>> responsibility. It's merely a personal choice that some people still
>> cannot even after death take responsibility for, as they have had a
>> life full of bad personal choices, and it has ALWAYS been someone
>> else's fault.
>>
>> I speak from personal experience.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
> I haven't heard (nor do I care about) someone who committed suicide,
> but you can hardly blame Gordon Ramsay for that. As for the show
> 'Kitchen Nightmares'... have you ever looked into those kitchens on
> the show? Ever seen the mouldy crap he's pulled out of their walk-in
> refrigerators? And they're serving this to customers? EWWWWWW! Or
> serving nothing but frozen food... I remember seeing one show where
> they were right on a lake and it was a seafood restaurant. You're not
> getting fresh fish? Nope, they were buying frozen crap. Come on!
>
> They are invariably family-owned restaurants, too. No one wants to
> tell "Dad" he's a lousy cook. But guess what? You are and you don't
> belong in the kitchen. The places are filthy, the food sucks and they
> wonder why customers aren't lining up at the door.
>
> Gordon's crew goes in, refits the kitchens with totally new
> appliances, spruces up the dining rooms, gives them a simpler menu and
> teaches them how to cook it. Opening night is always a fun thing to
> watch as the customers appreciate good food for a change
>
> If anyone killed themself over a failing restaurant it's because they
> ran it into the ground. All by themself.
>
> Jill
Restaurants fail more than any other business. 20% make it a year.
That's why franchises are so popular and people are willing to share
their profits for a better shot at success.

On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:17:15 -0400, LG > wrote:

>jmcquown wrote:
>> "Steve B" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I watch Ramsey's program.
>>>
>>> I like it.
>>>
>>> I like it because he tells the truth. I like it because he confronts
>>> owner/operators with the truth and holds up a mirror. I guess no one
>>> notices that, that he does not give specific instructions as how to
>>> operate, manage, but only to show the owner/operators how things work
>>> when you do it THIS way.
>>>
>>> Some of these people should NEVER EVER have gone into the restaurant
>>> business.
>>>
>>> I would NEVER EVER consider going into a restaurant business. I have
>>> owned bars, and the profit margin is much greater. The management
>>> and success of a restaurant is based on so many unpredictable and
>>> predictable things. Food spoils, booze doesn't.
>>>
>>> Mr. Ramsey's show deals with the restaurants that are just about to
>>> go over the falls, so it is apparent that there has been a failure on
>>> one or more of the component parts.
>>>
>>> When you hear why some of these people went into the restaurant
>>> business, and what they have spent money on, and how they have
>>> squandered profits, and all of what the general business population
>>> would call "bad choices", it is apparent that a lot of them are self
>>> indulgent creeps who have an inheritance, or some other source of
>>> funds who want to set up their own little living room situation every
>>> evening. There are a lot of them who insist that mingling with the
>>> crowd is more important than good food.
>>>
>>> All Gordon Ramsey does is hold up a mirror. How the restaurant owner
>>> takes that impression is up to them. They are getting a HUGE
>>> consultant service essentially for free, and yet a lot of them
>>> totally disregard it.
>>>
>>> I am very happy to see the shows where they go back and visit the
>>> restaurants a year later, and the owners/operators have learned to
>>> operate the business, or at least live within their income.
>>>
>>> When someone commits suicide, there is always the category of blame.
>>> The truth of the matter is that the person would have committed
>>> suicide anyway, regardless of who they claim to have caused it. It's
>>> always someone else's fault, according to the person committing suicide.
>>>
>>> There is no blame or fault at all. There isn't even any
>>> responsibility. It's merely a personal choice that some people still
>>> cannot even after death take responsibility for, as they have had a
>>> life full of bad personal choices, and it has ALWAYS been someone
>>> else's fault.
>>>
>>> I speak from personal experience.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>
>> I haven't heard (nor do I care about) someone who committed suicide,
>> but you can hardly blame Gordon Ramsay for that. As for the show
>> 'Kitchen Nightmares'... have you ever looked into those kitchens on
>> the show? Ever seen the mouldy crap he's pulled out of their walk-in
>> refrigerators? And they're serving this to customers? EWWWWWW! Or
>> serving nothing but frozen food... I remember seeing one show where
>> they were right on a lake and it was a seafood restaurant. You're not
>> getting fresh fish? Nope, they were buying frozen crap. Come on!
>>
>> They are invariably family-owned restaurants, too. No one wants to
>> tell "Dad" he's a lousy cook. But guess what? You are and you don't
>> belong in the kitchen. The places are filthy, the food sucks and they
>> wonder why customers aren't lining up at the door.
>>
>> Gordon's crew goes in, refits the kitchens with totally new
>> appliances, spruces up the dining rooms, gives them a simpler menu and
>> teaches them how to cook it. Opening night is always a fun thing to
>> watch as the customers appreciate good food for a change
>>
>> If anyone killed themself over a failing restaurant it's because they
>> ran it into the ground. All by themself.
>>
>> Jill
>Restaurants fail more than any other business. 20% make it a year.
>That's why franchises are so popular and people are willing to share
>their profits for a better shot at success.

That 20% failure rate is for the franchised/chain eateries, those have
a relatively high failure rate too. It's more like a 50% failure rate
for non franchised eateries... it's near impossible to secure a
personal loan to open any restaurant... people wanting a loan to open
a restaurant need a secured loan, typically they put up their house,
and it better have high equity.

"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:17:15 -0400, LG > wrote:
>

>>Restaurants fail more than any other business. 20% make it a year.
>>That's why franchises are so popular and people are willing to share
>>their profits for a better shot at success.
>
> That 20% failure rate is for the franchised/chain eateries, those have
> a relatively high failure rate too. It's more like a 50% failure rate
> for non franchised eateries... it's near impossible to secure a
> personal loan to open any restaurant... people wanting a loan to open
> a restaurant need a secured loan, typically they put up their house,
> and it better have high equity.


I believe he was saying that only 20% of new restaurants stay open for
business for year. 80% don't last that long. Your 50% figure is generous.
In the food service industry 50/50 success/failure are good odds.

I've been wondering which show it was. I saw that one, too. The decor was ho-hum and poeple just showed up because it was a double meal.

Thanks. Although I'd rather not watch his abrasive tactics, G. Ramsay does provide a much-needed wake up call to manydecen chefs who have either lost their direction or are so intent on seeing their dreams work out, without comprimise, that they are captaining sinking ships.

Interesting show. Just have to be int he mood. House Hunters Intl. and No Reservations are my favs.

Gorio wrote:
> 'Nancy Young[_2_ Wrote:

>> I haven't seen all the episodes of the show but I caught that one.
>> If memory serves, people were routinely asking for takeout containers
>> before they even ate a bite because he served enormous plates that
>> were piled with food. And not charging all that much.

> I've been wondering which show it was. I saw that one, too. The decor
> was ho-hum and poeple just showed up because it was a double meal.

Exactly. I eat out pretty often so I'm accustomed to the size of
restaurant meals and I'm one to take leftovers home ... these
plates he was serving were huge even to me. Like platters.

> Thanks. Although I'd rather not watch his abrasive tactics, G. Ramsay
> does provide a much-needed wake up call to manydecen chefs who have
> either lost their direction or are so intent on seeing their dreams
> work out, without comprimise, that they are captaining sinking ships.

Some of them are so unreasonable that I have to chalk it up to It's a
show, they have to make it entertaining. But some of the filth I saw,
that's crazy. (laugh) I don't mean Gordon's mouth, I mean the
kitchens.

> Interesting show. Just have to be int he mood. House Hunters Intl. and
> No Reservations are my favs.

I like to watch people buying or selling houses, apparently, but I
have to watch House Hunters on DVR so I can fast forward through
the repetitive format. Always enjoy watching Anthony, too, I think
he's amusing.

nancy

On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 23:38:03 -0400, "Paco" > wrote:

>
>
>"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:17:15 -0400, LG > wrote:
>>
>
>>>Restaurants fail more than any other business. 20% make it a year.
>>>That's why franchises are so popular and people are willing to share
>>>their profits for a better shot at success.
>>
>> That 20% failure rate is for the franchised/chain eateries, those have
>> a relatively high failure rate too. It's more like a 50% failure rate
>> for non franchised eateries... it's near impossible to secure a
>> personal loan to open any restaurant... people wanting a loan to open
>> a restaurant need a secured loan, typically they put up their house,
>> and it better have high equity.
>
>
>I believe he was saying that only 20% of new restaurants stay open for
>business for year. 80% don't last that long. Your 50% figure is generous.
>In the food service industry 50/50 success/failure are good odds.

I was addressing the first year too, my 50% is less generous but I
believe closer to reality. I read somewhere that less than 5% of
restaurants remain in business after seven years. Of course these are
generalities, the average rate encompassing all geographical locations
and all types of cusine, and doesn't consider change of ownership (a
restaurnt can be at the same location for forty years but have gone
through twenty owners). Banks that do make secured business loans
charge the highest interest rate to open an eatery. In many large
urban areas if one needs money for and wants to open a restaurant they
don't approach a bank, instead they need to arrange a meeting with the
local organized crime boss. After interviewing they decide you can
make it they will set you up with a location, equipment, and
suppliers, they'll even make sure no competion muscles into your
area... of course there're rules and obligations.

The largest risk to restaurant failure is among people who can cook
opening a restuarant thinking they know how to operate a business.
Most successful operations are owned by business people who can't cook
a lick but know how to run a business and how to hire those who can
cook. Even noteable celebrities and celebrity cooks who own
restuarants do not get involved with their day to day operation, they
employ managers.

Paco wrote:
>
>
> "Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message
> ...
>> On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:17:15 -0400, LG > wrote:
>>
>
>>> Restaurants fail more than any other business. 20% make it a year.
>>> That's why franchises are so popular and people are willing to share
>>> their profits for a better shot at success.
>>
>> That 20% failure rate is for the franchised/chain eateries, those have
>> a relatively high failure rate too. It's more like a 50% failure rate
>> for non franchised eateries... it's near impossible to secure a
>> personal loan to open any restaurant... people wanting a loan to open
>> a restaurant need a secured loan, typically they put up their house,
>> and it better have high equity.
>
>
> I believe he was saying that only 20% of new restaurants stay open for
> business for year. 80% don't last that long. Your 50% figure is
> generous. In the food service industry 50/50 success/failure are good
> odds.
I thought it was clear.