Regarding Key Lime Pies:

Most recipes I've seen, call for a half cup of Key Lime Juice. However
that seems to make an extremely strong pie.

I'm using home-grown Key Limes, not the store-bought limes from Mexico.
They are fully ripe, not picked green. Does this explain the extra
strong taste, or could there be some other reason?

Fred

Fred McKenzie wrote:
> Regarding Key Lime Pies:
>
> Most recipes I've seen, call for a half cup of Key Lime Juice. However
> that seems to make an extremely strong pie.
>
> I'm using home-grown Key Limes, not the store-bought limes from Mexico.
> They are fully ripe, not picked green. Does this explain the extra
> strong taste, or could there be some other reason?
>
> Fred


My guess is the recipes are for Key(tm) lime juice (Persian lime juice
in a cleverly labeled bottle, not really Key Limes)

Try backing off to 1/3 cup of juice and see how it works. Or dilute
the juice with bottled lemon juice. (ouch. People just started
throwing things at me)

Bob

In article >, Andy > wrote:

> That certainly would depend on the recipe as a whole. Also if it calls
> for any measure of lime zest that will also tarten it up some.

Bob and Andy-

I see that one recipe calls for one tablespoon of zest, but another
calls for one teaspoon.

It would also be reasonable to cut the lime juice to 1/3 cup. There
should still be plenty of key lime flavor. I found another recipe that
uses 1/4 cup of juice.

Thanks for the prompt responses.

Fred

In article >, Andy > wrote:

> Another mention, the more you take away and depending on the size of the
> pie plate, the shallower the pie will be. Probably not by much though. Or
> use a smaller diameter pie plate?
>
> Maybe the sugar measure is deficient?

I checked with the cook! This recipe was for 2 teaspoons of zest, but
it was tightly packed. That is the most likely source of the extra
tartness.

Going from 1/2 cup to 1/3 cup is a reduction of 1 1/3 ounces.

The pie was sweet enough. Do you think more sugar would reduce the
sense of tartness?

Fred

"Fred McKenzie" > wrote in message
...
| Regarding Key Lime Pies:
|
| Most recipes I've seen, call for a half cup of Key Lime Juice. However
| that seems to make an extremely strong pie.
|
| I'm using home-grown Key Limes, not the store-bought limes from Mexico.
| They are fully ripe, not picked green. Does this explain the extra
| strong taste, or could there be some other reason?
|
| Fred

There is great variance in home-grown fruit, as you know. The one
recipe I would stand by is the one from Joe's Stone Crabs in Miami,
"Eat at Joe's," which specifies: 3 egg yolks, grated zest of 2 limes,
about 1 1/2 teaspoon, 14 oz condensed milk and 2/3 C key lime
juice. Definitely key limes, perhaps yours are somewhat bitter,
which would only show up in cooking as they are overwhelming to
the taste and you might not detect the bitterness from the juice
alone. Suggestion would be to make the recipe with commercial
key limes and see if there is any difference. I've spent about 30
years trying and am still not satisfied but Joe's recipe is the closest
to that of Joe's restaurant in Miami, which is the absolute best that
I have ever had. Fun, isn't it?

pavane

zxcvbob wrote:

> My guess is the recipes are for Key(tm) lime juice (Persian lime
> juice in a cleverly labeled bottle, not really Key Limes)

My understanding is that the bottled juice is the Mexican lime, which
is the same as the Key lime. There are large commercial orchards and
plants producing concentrate in Mexico.



Brian

--
Day 330 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project

In article >,
zxcvbob > wrote:

> Fred McKenzie wrote:
> > Regarding Key Lime Pies:
> >
> > Most recipes I've seen, call for a half cup of Key Lime Juice. However
> > that seems to make an extremely strong pie.
> >
> > I'm using home-grown Key Limes, not the store-bought limes from Mexico.
> > They are fully ripe, not picked green. Does this explain the extra
> > strong taste, or could there be some other reason?
> >
> > Fred
>
>
> My guess is the recipes are for Key(tm) lime juice (Persian lime juice
> in a cleverly labeled bottle, not really Key Limes)
>
> Try backing off to 1/3 cup of juice and see how it works. Or dilute
> the juice with bottled lemon juice. (ouch. People just started
> throwing things at me)

Wimps. I use 2/3 cup of key lime juice for a 9" pie. I do, however,
use Mexican limes, which are closer to the original Key Limes than the
larger Persians. I refuse to use bottled lime juice, which tastes stale
and skanky to me. Many (most?) of the bottled products that claim to be
"Key Lime Juice" are actually made from Persians.

I grew up in South Florida, and sampled KLP from a lot of recipes and
restaurants. My all-time favorite is from Mangrove Mama's, a cozy
little bar & restaurant on Sugarloaf Key (milepost 20). You can find
several alleged versions of their recipe via Google. Here's the one
that I use, as posted to usenet a few years back:

<http://groups.google.com/group/seattle.eats/msg/1f7796e96e35ab58?hl=en>

--
Julian Vrieslander

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 04:06:24 -0800, Julian Vrieslander
> wrote:

><http://groups.google.com/group/seattle.eats/msg/1f7796e96e35ab58?hl=en>

I'm in the meringue camp. Picked that up from the years of
vacationing in Florida as a kid.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

sf wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 04:06:24 -0800, Julian Vrieslander
> > wrote:
>
>
>> <http://groups.google.com/group/seattle.eats/msg/1f7796e96e35ab58?hl=en>
>>
>
> I'm in the meringue camp. Picked that up from the years of
> vacationing in Florida as a kid.


The best Key Lime Pie I ever had, was made with a typical pie crust and
they used meringue that seemed like it was 6 inches thick. That pie was
so awesome, George wanted to marry the cook. We were in nowheresville,
on the island of Roatan, one of the Bay Islands of Honduras.


BTW, thanks to Julian for the recipe.


Becca

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> I'm in the meringue camp.

Floridians, and other true believers of the KLP religion, are divided
into factions on this issue. Most restaurants seem to go with a
towering meringue, maybe because it looks more impressive, or because
that's what customers expect. I take a generous dollop of real whipped
cream (not the stuff from a can) next to my slice. To me, the texture
and flavor are a better counterpoint to a tart KLP.

--
Julian Vrieslander

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 22:50:52 -0800, Julian Vrieslander
> wrote:

>In article >,
> sf > wrote:
>
>> I'm in the meringue camp.
>
>Floridians, and other true believers of the KLP religion, are divided
>into factions on this issue. Most restaurants seem to go with a
>towering meringue, maybe because it looks more impressive, or because
>that's what customers expect. I take a generous dollop of real whipped
>cream (not the stuff from a can) next to my slice. To me, the texture
>and flavor are a better counterpoint to a tart KLP.

Huh. To me (not overly sweet) meringue is the perfect counterpoint...
you don't eat lemon pie with meringue? Whipped cream belongs on
pumpkin pie, gingerbread cake and strawberry shortcake.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

sf > wrote:

>On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 22:50:52 -0800, Julian Vrieslander
> wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>> sf > wrote:
>>
>>> I'm in the meringue camp.
>>
>>Floridians, and other true believers of the KLP religion, are divided
>>into factions on this issue. Most restaurants seem to go with a
>>towering meringue, maybe because it looks more impressive, or because
>>that's what customers expect. I take a generous dollop of real whipped
>>cream (not the stuff from a can) next to my slice. To me, the texture
>>and flavor are a better counterpoint to a tart KLP.
>
>Huh. To me (not overly sweet) meringue is the perfect counterpoint...
>you don't eat lemon pie with meringue? Whipped cream belongs on
>pumpkin pie, gingerbread cake and strawberry shortcake.

Agreed... whipped cream with key lime/lemon pie is TIAD... of course
that bit about not using canned tells me Julian is full of
cockydoody-poopoo... he just made that up thinking it would somehow
elevate his culinary persona to babboon ass facedom.

Sheldon blathered:

> Agreed... whipped cream with key lime/lemon pie is TIAD... of course
> that bit about not using canned tells me Julian is full of
> cockydoody-poopoo... he just made that up thinking it would somehow
> elevate his culinary persona to babboon ass facedom.

....and thus Sheldon reveals that he prefers to consume whipped cream which
has been squirted.

Apparently in Sheldon's mind, NOBODY would be so high-falutin' as to apply a
whisk to whipping cream! But once the cream has been SQUIRTED, Sheldon will
happily dive tongue-first right into it.

Bob

"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
...
| Sheldon blathered:
|
| > Agreed... whipped cream with key lime/lemon pie is TIAD... of course
| > that bit about not using canned tells me Julian is full of
| > cockydoody-poopoo... he just made that up thinking it would somehow
| > elevate his culinary persona to babboon ass facedom.
|
| ...and thus Sheldon reveals that he prefers to consume whipped cream which
| has been squirted.
|
| Apparently in Sheldon's mind, NOBODY would be so high-falutin' as to apply a
| whisk to whipping cream! But once the cream has been SQUIRTED, Sheldon will
| happily dive tongue-first right into it.
|
| Bob

Now that's a mental image that I didn't need this morning...

pavane

On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 05:49:33 -0800, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

>Sheldon blathered:
>
>> Agreed... whipped cream with key lime/lemon pie is TIAD... of course
>> that bit about not using canned tells me Julian is full of
>> cockydoody-poopoo... he just made that up thinking it would somehow
>> elevate his culinary persona to babboon ass facedom.
>
>...and thus Sheldon reveals that he prefers to consume whipped cream which
>has been squirted.
>
>Apparently in Sheldon's mind, NOBODY would be so high-falutin' as to apply a
>whisk to whipping cream! But once the cream has been SQUIRTED, Sheldon will
>happily dive tongue-first right into it.
>
I am not going as far as either of you. I prefer meringue on lemon
and lime pies, and whipped cream can come out of a can or be hand
whipped. Both have their place and I don't have a problem with either
one. I'm certainly not going to sacrifice serial 1/2 pints of heavy
cream just so I can occasionally have whipped cream on something at
whim and I'm not about to rush down to 7-11 to buy heavy cream when I
get that whim either, so canned it is unless I plan ahead.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 09:08:29 -0800, Ranee at Arabian Knits
> wrote:

> I don't like soft meringue at all,

Really? Maybe what you've had was too sweet.

>and only enjoy hard meringues in small quantities.

Hard meringue is take it or leave it for me and given a choice, I
leave it... except for the forgotten pies (which I've only eaten once)
and I'm going to try forgotten cookies. They are an in between
meringue though.

>I've never liked lemon meringue pies. I prefer
>lemon, lime, coconut, chocolate, all of those kinds of pies with cream
>topping.

I took to meringue pies like a duck to water, but I didn't get them
very often nor do I make them very often - we're talking in terms of
decades at this point. Coconut and chocolate are cream pies so I
assume they should have whipped cream and not meringue. I don't think
I've ever seen a meringue on them.

AFAIC when I make lemon and lime pies making a meringue is cost
effective as well as my preference because I'm using yolks in the
filling... so making meringue is a no brainer for me, I do that to use
up the whites.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 22:50:52 -0800, Julian Vrieslander
> > wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>> sf > wrote:
>>
>>> I'm in the meringue camp.
>>
>>Floridians, and other true believers of the KLP religion, are divided
>>into factions on this issue. Most restaurants seem to go with a
>>towering meringue, maybe because it looks more impressive, or because
>>that's what customers expect. I take a generous dollop of real whipped
>>cream (not the stuff from a can) next to my slice. To me, the texture
>>and flavor are a better counterpoint to a tart KLP.
>
> Huh. To me (not overly sweet) meringue is the perfect counterpoint...
> you don't eat lemon pie with meringue? Whipped cream belongs on
> pumpkin pie, gingerbread cake and strawberry shortcake.
>
> --
> I love cooking with wine.
> Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Lemon meringue pie is not the only kind of lemon pie. Lemon Chess pie needs
whipped cream. Lemon chess pie is better than lemon meringue.


Ms P

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> To me (not overly sweet) meringue is the perfect counterpoint...
> you don't eat lemon pie with meringue?

I like lemon pie with meringue, but I just like whipped cream better.
We make whipped cream with one of those Swiss gizmos that take the
nitrous oxide cartridges ("whip-its"). There are a couple of advantages
to this gizmo. Unlike the squirters you buy in the supermarket, you can
sweeten and flavor the stuff to your own preferences (I like to add a
splash of vanilla). After charging the gizmo, the whipped cream is
usable for several days - usually more than enough for us to finish off
a pie, or a pint of ice cream.

I sometimes make whipped cream by hand (or electric beater), if I want a
thicker consistency.

My personal feeling is that meringue looks nice, but does not add much
flavor to a pie. I guess some people like the texture of it. Meringue
also has a tendency to separate and go runny if the pie is not consumed
in a day or two.

Anyway, as the French say: "chacon à son goût", (translation: "Choke on
some goo").

--
Julian Vrieslander

Cindy wrote:

> I haven't made lemon meringue pie in years, and rarely find a good one.
> The SO has converted me to the whipped cream camp for key lime pie.

I'm right with you on that. Growing up in Florida, the key lime pies we got
in the Florida Keys all had whipped cream on top. I think the meringue
version was created by people who confused lemon meringue and key lime pies.


> The one cream pie that I eat is Tom Douglas's triple coconut cream pie,
> which is a religious experience. I've had it twice this fall, courtesy
> of our football bets.

I like chocolate cream pie a LOT. I'm also fond of the coconut cream pie
recipe from _Miami Spice_. But I haven't had either one for years. I'm not a
big fan of meringue on pies, though I like it on old-fashioned banana
pudding and as a stand-alone element of desserts. (I made Frangelico
meringues with orange-chocolate béarnaise as part of my Valentine's Day menu
last year.)

Is the Tom Douglas you mention the same one who owns restaurants in Seattle,
and who competed on Iron Chef America several years ago? Is the triple
coconut cream pie recipe available online?

Coconut Cream Pie (adapted from _Miami Spice_)

1 cup milk
1 cup canned coconut cream such as Coco Lopez
2 large eggs
6 tablespoons granulated sugar
3 tablespoons all-purpose flour
2 cups shredded (finely grated) fresh coconut
1 teaspoon unsalted butter
1 Coconut Pie Crust (recipe follows)
1 cup heavy (or whipping) cream
3 tablespoons confectioner's sugar
1 tablespoon light rum or amaretto
1/2 cup shredded (finely grated) coconut, toasted (see note)

Scald the milk and coconut cream in a heavy saucepan. Beat the eggs in a
large mixing bowl. Whisk in the granulated sugar, followed by the flour. Add
the 2 cups shredded coconut and whisk until smooth.

Whisk 1/4 cup of the scalded milk mixture into the egg mixture to warm it.
Whisk the egg mixture into the milk mixture remaining in the saucepan. Boil
the filling, whisking steadily, until thick and bubbly, about 2 minutes.
Transfer the filling to a bowl, dot the top with the butter, and let cool.

Spoon the filling into the coconut crust and let it cool completely. Cover
and refrigerate until thoroughly chilled, 2 hours.

Whip the cream in a chilled bowl, adding the confectioner's sugar and liquor
as it thickens. Continue to beat until stiff peaks form. Spoon the cream
into a pastry bag fitted with a large star tip. Decorate the top of the pie
with rosettes of whipped cream and sprinkle evenly with the toasted coconut.
Refrigerate, uncovered, until ready to serve.


Coconut Pie Crust

1 1/2 cups all-purpose flour
1/4 cup shredded (finely grated) coconut
3/4 teaspoon salt
2 tablespoons sugar
3 tablespoons cold unsalted butter, cut into 1/2-inch pieces
2 egg yolks
5 to 6 tablespoons canned coconut cream, such as Coco Lopez

Place the flour, shredded coconut, salt, sugar, and butter in a food
processor. Run the machine until the butter is completely cut in; the
mixture should feel sandy, like cornmeal.

Add the egg yolks and coconut cream and pulse until the dough comes together
into a smooth ball, 1 to 2 minutes. If the dough seems too dry (it should
be soft and pliable), add a little more coconut cream.

Gather the dough into a ball and wrap on plastic. Refrigerate for 1 hour, or
freeze for 15 minutes.

Preheat the oven to 400°F.

Roll out the dough on a lightly floured work surface to 11 inches in
diameter. Use it to line a 9-inch pie pan. Prick the bottom of the crust
with a fork and decoratively crimp and trim the edges. Line the crust with
aluminum foil and fill with baking weights, beans, or rice.

Blind-bake the crust for 12 to 15 minutes (see Notes). Remove the weights
and foil. Continue baking until nicely browned, about 5 minutes. Transfer
the pie shell to a wire rack to let cool.

NOTES:

1. To toast shredded coconut, spread the coconut on a baking sheet, place it
in a preheated 350°F oven, and brown, stirring frequently, for 5 to 8
minutes. If you prefer, you can toast chopped macadamia nuts instead.

2. Canned coconut cream tends to solidify when cold. If the coconut cream is
too hard to pour, set the can in a bowl of hot water to warm it.

3. Blind-baking refers to cooking a pie crust without the filling. The
uncooked crust is first lined with foil or parchment paper and baking
weights, beans, or rice, which are added to weigh down the dough as it bakes
and prevent bubbling. The foil and weights are removed for the last 5
minutes of baking to allow the crust to dry out.

4. The coconut crust also makes a nice crust for banana cream pie.


Bob

In article >,
"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote:

snip>
> I like chocolate cream pie a LOT. I'm also fond of the coconut cream pie
> recipe from _Miami Spice_. But I haven't had either one for years. I'm not a
> big fan of meringue on pies, though I like it on old-fashioned banana
> pudding and as a stand-alone element of desserts. (I made Frangelico
> meringues with orange-chocolate béarnaise as part of my Valentine's Day menu
> last year.)
>
> Is the Tom Douglas you mention the same one who owns restaurants in Seattle,
> and who competed on Iron Chef America several years ago? Is the triple
> coconut cream pie recipe available online?

Yes, it is that Tom Douglas. We went to Etta's when I lost the football
bet, and to the Dahlia Lounge when I won it. His recipe should be on
the internet somewhere. He published it in his first book, and it's
been shown ad nauseam on the local PBS station KCTS Cooks show. You
might be able to find it if you go to tomdouglas.com.

I've not tried the Miami Spice coconut cream pie. We have the cookbook,
since the SO is a Florida boy. Looks like one to try for an upcoming
birthday party...

Cindy
>

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me

In article >,
"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote:

> Is the Tom Douglas you mention the same one who owns restaurants in Seattle,
> and who competed on Iron Chef America several years ago? Is the triple
> coconut cream pie recipe available online?

<http://www.cakespy.com/2008/04/coconut-dream-love-affair-with-tom.html>

--
Julian Vrieslander

Julian proffered:

>> Is the Tom Douglas you mention the same one who owns restaurants in
>> Seattle, and who competed on Iron Chef America several years ago? Is the
>> triple coconut cream pie recipe available online?
>
> <http://www.cakespy.com/2008/04/coconut-dream-love-affair-with-tom.html>

Holy Toledo, thanks!

Of course, this presents me with a dilemma: Now that I have the recipe,
SHOULD I make it? Or should I stick to raw celery and carrots for a while
first?

Bob

In article >,
"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote:

> Julian proffered:
>
> >> Is the Tom Douglas you mention the same one who owns restaurants in
> >> Seattle, and who competed on Iron Chef America several years ago? Is the
> >> triple coconut cream pie recipe available online?
> >
> > <http://www.cakespy.com/2008/04/coconut-dream-love-affair-with-tom.html>
>
> Holy Toledo, thanks!
>
> Of course, this presents me with a dilemma: Now that I have the recipe,
> SHOULD I make it? Or should I stick to raw celery and carrots for a while
> first?
>
> Bob

Moderation in all things, Bob. You don't want to OD on carrots lest
your skin turn orange. You make the coconut cream pie, invite friends
over, it gets consumed, everyone's happy.

Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me