joannie wrote:
>
> what a disappointment! i thought this was a cooking NG. not a bunch of
> folks making insulting and racist remarks. Dago? not too nice. you
> all need to grow up a bit..........

I wasn't aware we were here for your amusement.

nancy

joannie wrote:
>
> what a disappointment! i thought this was a cooking NG. not a bunch of
> folks making insulting and racist remarks. Dago? not too nice. you
> all need to grow up a bit..........

I wasn't aware we were here for your amusement.

nancy

joannie wrote:
>
> what a disappointment! i thought this was a cooking NG. not a bunch of
> folks making insulting and racist remarks. Dago? not too nice. you
> all need to grow up a bit..........

I wasn't aware we were here for your amusement.

nancy

Kompu Kid > wrote:

> The process is much like cooking rice.

It *is* possible to prepare some types of pasta like risotto. This is
how they sometimes make it in Liguria and the recent (2002) NYT article
by Alain Ducasse seems to have made the method better known. See below.

Victor

From
<http://labellecuisine.com/archives/pasta/Alain%20Ducasse's%20Olive%20Mill%20Pasta.htm>

Pasta From the Italian Riviera
The New York Times, March 13, 2002
By Alain Ducasse, written with Florence Fabricant

"I prefer dry pasta, macaroni, to fresh noodles. One of my favorites is
a short twisted kind called strozzapreti. And I like to cook it the way
I learned from the farm families who have mills for pressing olives for
oil in rural Liguria on the Italian Riviera. They cook pasta like a
risotto.

I've been doing it for years now, and I would not cook macaroni any
other way. What happens is this. You do not boil the pasta in water
first. Rather, you start with some of your seasonings, the ingredients
that will make up your sauce, like olive oil, onions, garlic, tomatoes
and herbs.

In Liguria, they also use potatoes and even big white beans. They cook
the beans first, of course.

Once these ingredients have started to soften and perhaps taken on a bit
of color, you add the pasta and stir it around. Then you begin adding
stock, about a cup at a time, stirring everything together.

After 15 or 20 minutes your pasta is cooked and is coated with just
enough sauce - richly concentrated, almost creamy and perfectly
seasoned. It is a sauce that has picked up the flavor of the macaroni
and blended it with your other ingredients. You have taken advantage of
the pasta's natural starch, like the starch in arborio rice when you
make risotto.

You have to use a high-quality hard-wheat pasta, a pasta made with
old-fashioned bronze dies. It's usually labeled "artisanal." That kind
of pasta has the best flavor and also a rougher texture, so it can grab
the sauce. You couldn't cook spaghetti this way, but almost any
short-cut pasta, penne, for example, or gemelli or fusilli, would work.

I've served this pasta at my restaurant in Monte Carlo. But it is
really a modest dish, one that I would make at home and one that the
housewives in Liguria serve as the mainstay of a meal. These women are
the keepers of the best Italian cooking. A preparation like this also
illustrates the deep connection to the actual process and pleasure of
preparing food, something that is essential to me.

You're not just standing there waiting for a big pot of water to boil,
and then waiting for the macaroni to cook, and then applying a sauce.
You are participating every step of the way, stirring, seasoning,
reducing the liquid, enjoying the warmth and aromas around you, trusting
your palate and then sharing what you have prepared with others. It's
what I adore about cooking."


Olive Mill Pasta

Time: 45 minutes
Yield: 4 servings

1/2 cup extra virgin olive oil
4 tablespoons butter
2 medium-small onions, minced
1/4 pound fingerling potatoes, peeled and sliced 1/4-inch thick
5 1/2 cups, approximately, vegetable or light chicken stock
14 ounces artisanal strozzapreti pasta
Salt and freshly ground black pepper
2 medium-size ripe tomatoes, peeled, seeded, juiced and diced, or 2/3
cup diced sun-dried tomatoes, not oil-cured, covered with boiling water
and drained
1 garlic clove, peeled and crushed
8 branches fresh basil or arugula, leaves removed and slivered,stems
lightly crushed
1 bunch scallions, trimmed, slant-cut in 1-inch pieces
3 ounces freshly grated Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese, about 1 cup

1. Heat 1/4 cup oil in a 10-inch sauté pan. Add butter. When it melts,
add onions and potatoes. Cook, stirring gently, over medium heat until
they begin to turn golden.

2. In a small saucepan, bring stock to a slow simmer.

3. Add pasta to sauté pan, and stir gently. Lightly season with salt
and pepper, and add tomatoes, garlic and basil or arugula stems. Add 1
1/2 cups stock. Cook, stirring gently, until nearly all stock has
evaporated. Add scallions and another cup of stock, and cook, stirring,
adding additional stock from time to time, so there is always some
liquid in the pan, until pasta is al dente, about 18 minutes. Remove
garlic and herb stems.

4. Fold in cheese and all but 1 tablespoon remaining oil. Add slivered
herbs. Season with additional salt and pepper if needed. Transfer to
warm soup plates, taking care that the ingredients are well distributed.
Drizzle remaining oil over each and serve.

Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company

Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>
> No, but I have tried and liked a recipe (Italian, BTW) where pasta was
> cooked in its sauce. I can't remember exactly, but it was like, fry
> pasta in oil with a bit of onion, add passata di pomodoro, herbs,
> salt, pepper, some water, cook down. If I can find that recipe, i'll
> post it.
>
> Nathalie in Switzerland
>

I want it! I want it! I just tried a mac and cheese recipe where
you just (pretty much) plop everything into the oven. Don't have
to precook the mac. Maybe not the BEST mac in the world, but the
ease of preparation made up for it. And, best of all, my daughter
even liked it!
--
Jean B.

Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>
> No, but I have tried and liked a recipe (Italian, BTW) where pasta was
> cooked in its sauce. I can't remember exactly, but it was like, fry
> pasta in oil with a bit of onion, add passata di pomodoro, herbs,
> salt, pepper, some water, cook down. If I can find that recipe, i'll
> post it.
>
> Nathalie in Switzerland
>

I want it! I want it! I just tried a mac and cheese recipe where
you just (pretty much) plop everything into the oven. Don't have
to precook the mac. Maybe not the BEST mac in the world, but the
ease of preparation made up for it. And, best of all, my daughter
even liked it!
--
Jean B.

Nancy Young wrote:

> joannie wrote:
>
>>what a disappointment! i thought this was a cooking NG. not a bunch of
>>folks making insulting and racist remarks. Dago? not too nice. you
>>all need to grow up a bit..........
>
> I wasn't aware we were here for your amusement.

Of course we are. See how it works? Sheldon vomits his normal vitriol
and "you all" need to look into yourselves and correct those things
that joannie doesn't like.

Don't make me say this to you again.

Who's buying...?

Pastorio

Victor Sack wrote:

> Kompu Kid > wrote:
>=20
>>The process is much like cooking rice.
>=20
> It *is* possible to prepare some types of pasta like risotto.

It is possible, to be sure, and I'm sure this one would taste good and=20
have a nice mouthfeel with all that starch thickening the sauce. But=20
Ducasse has made a simple, rather unusual, rustic dish into some=20
hyperfastidious, hoity-toity affair and he "would not cook macaroni=20
any other way."

How pompously silly he looks. "I've served this pasta at my restaurant=20
in Monte Carlo. But it is really a modest dish, one that I would make=20
at home and one that the housewives in Liguria serve as the mainstay=20
of a meal. These women are the keepers of the best Italian cooking.=20
A preparation like this also illustrates the deep connection to the=20
actual process and pleasure of preparing food, something that is=20
essential to me."

Pastorio

> This is=20
> how they sometimes make it in Liguria and the recent (2002) NYT article=
=20
> by Alain Ducasse seems to have made the method better known. See below=
=2E
>=20
> Victor
>=20
> From
> <http://labellecuisine.com/archives/pasta/Alain%20Ducasse's%20Olive%20M=
ill%20Pasta.htm>
>=20
> Pasta From the Italian Riviera
> The New York Times, March 13, 2002
> By Alain Ducasse, written with Florence Fabricant
>=20
> "I prefer dry pasta, macaroni, to fresh noodles. One of my favorites i=
s
> a short twisted kind called strozzapreti. And I like to cook it the wa=
y
> I learned from the farm families who have mills for pressing olives for=

> oil in rural Liguria on the Italian Riviera. They cook pasta like a
> risotto.
>=20
> I've been doing it for years now, and I would not cook macaroni any
> other way. What happens is this. You do not boil the pasta in water
> first. Rather, you start with some of your seasonings, the ingredients=

> that will make up your sauce, like olive oil, onions, garlic, tomatoes
> and herbs.
>=20
> In Liguria, they also use potatoes and even big white beans. They cook=

> the beans first, of course.
>=20
> Once these ingredients have started to soften and perhaps taken on a bi=
t
> of color, you add the pasta and stir it around. Then you begin adding
> stock, about a cup at a time, stirring everything together.
>=20
> After 15 or 20 minutes your pasta is cooked and is coated with just
> enough sauce - richly concentrated, almost creamy and perfectly
> seasoned. It is a sauce that has picked up the flavor of the macaroni
> and blended it with your other ingredients. You have taken advantage o=
f
> the pasta's natural starch, like the starch in arborio rice when you
> make risotto.
>=20
> You have to use a high-quality hard-wheat pasta, a pasta made with
> old-fashioned bronze dies. It's usually labeled "artisanal." That kin=
d
> of pasta has the best flavor and also a rougher texture, so it can grab=

> the sauce. You couldn't cook spaghetti this way, but almost any
> short-cut pasta, penne, for example, or gemelli or fusilli, would work.=

>=20
> I've served this pasta at my restaurant in Monte Carlo. But it is=20
> really a modest dish, one that I would make at home and one that the=20
> housewives in Liguria serve as the mainstay of a meal. These women are=
=20
> the keepers of the best Italian cooking. A preparation like this also =

> illustrates the deep connection to the actual process and pleasure of=20
> preparing food, something that is essential to me.
>=20
> You're not just standing there waiting for a big pot of water to boil,
> and then waiting for the macaroni to cook, and then applying a sauce.
> You are participating every step of the way, stirring, seasoning,
> reducing the liquid, enjoying the warmth and aromas around you, trustin=
g
> your palate and then sharing what you have prepared with others. It's
> what I adore about cooking."
> =
=20
>=20
> Olive Mill Pasta
>=20
> Time: 45 minutes
> Yield: 4 servings
>=20
> 1/2 cup extra virgin olive oil
> 4 tablespoons butter
> 2 medium-small onions, minced
> 1/4 pound fingerling potatoes, peeled and sliced 1/4-inch thick=20
> 5 1/2 cups, approximately, vegetable or light chicken stock
> 14 ounces artisanal strozzapreti pasta
> Salt and freshly ground black pepper
> 2 medium-size ripe tomatoes, peeled, seeded, juiced and diced, or 2/3=20
> cup diced sun-dried tomatoes, not oil-cured, covered with boiling water=
=20
> and drained=20
> 1 garlic clove, peeled and crushed=20
> 8 branches fresh basil or arugula, leaves removed and slivered,stems=20
> lightly crushed=20
> 1 bunch scallions, trimmed, slant-cut in 1-inch pieces
> 3 ounces freshly grated Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese, about 1 cup
>=20
> 1. Heat 1/4 cup oil in a 10-inch saut=E9 pan. Add butter. When it mel=
ts,
> add onions and potatoes. Cook, stirring gently, over medium heat until=

> they begin to turn golden.
>=20
> 2. In a small saucepan, bring stock to a slow simmer.
>=20
> 3. Add pasta to saut=E9 pan, and stir gently. Lightly season with salt=

> and pepper, and add tomatoes, garlic and basil or arugula stems. Add 1=

> 1/2 cups stock. Cook, stirring gently, until nearly all stock has
> evaporated. Add scallions and another cup of stock, and cook, stirring=
,
> adding additional stock from time to time, so there is always some
> liquid in the pan, until pasta is al dente, about 18 minutes. Remove
> garlic and herb stems.
>=20
> 4. Fold in cheese and all but 1 tablespoon remaining oil. Add slivered=

> herbs. Season with additional salt and pepper if needed. Transfer to
> warm soup plates, taking care that the ingredients are well distributed=
=2E
> Drizzle remaining oil over each and serve.
>=20
> Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company

Victor Sack wrote:

> Kompu Kid > wrote:
>=20
>>The process is much like cooking rice.
>=20
> It *is* possible to prepare some types of pasta like risotto.

It is possible, to be sure, and I'm sure this one would taste good and=20
have a nice mouthfeel with all that starch thickening the sauce. But=20
Ducasse has made a simple, rather unusual, rustic dish into some=20
hyperfastidious, hoity-toity affair and he "would not cook macaroni=20
any other way."

How pompously silly he looks. "I've served this pasta at my restaurant=20
in Monte Carlo. But it is really a modest dish, one that I would make=20
at home and one that the housewives in Liguria serve as the mainstay=20
of a meal. These women are the keepers of the best Italian cooking.=20
A preparation like this also illustrates the deep connection to the=20
actual process and pleasure of preparing food, something that is=20
essential to me."

Pastorio

> This is=20
> how they sometimes make it in Liguria and the recent (2002) NYT article=
=20
> by Alain Ducasse seems to have made the method better known. See below=
=2E
>=20
> Victor
>=20
> From
> <http://labellecuisine.com/archives/pasta/Alain%20Ducasse's%20Olive%20M=
ill%20Pasta.htm>
>=20
> Pasta From the Italian Riviera
> The New York Times, March 13, 2002
> By Alain Ducasse, written with Florence Fabricant
>=20
> "I prefer dry pasta, macaroni, to fresh noodles. One of my favorites i=
s
> a short twisted kind called strozzapreti. And I like to cook it the wa=
y
> I learned from the farm families who have mills for pressing olives for=

> oil in rural Liguria on the Italian Riviera. They cook pasta like a
> risotto.
>=20
> I've been doing it for years now, and I would not cook macaroni any
> other way. What happens is this. You do not boil the pasta in water
> first. Rather, you start with some of your seasonings, the ingredients=

> that will make up your sauce, like olive oil, onions, garlic, tomatoes
> and herbs.
>=20
> In Liguria, they also use potatoes and even big white beans. They cook=

> the beans first, of course.
>=20
> Once these ingredients have started to soften and perhaps taken on a bi=
t
> of color, you add the pasta and stir it around. Then you begin adding
> stock, about a cup at a time, stirring everything together.
>=20
> After 15 or 20 minutes your pasta is cooked and is coated with just
> enough sauce - richly concentrated, almost creamy and perfectly
> seasoned. It is a sauce that has picked up the flavor of the macaroni
> and blended it with your other ingredients. You have taken advantage o=
f
> the pasta's natural starch, like the starch in arborio rice when you
> make risotto.
>=20
> You have to use a high-quality hard-wheat pasta, a pasta made with
> old-fashioned bronze dies. It's usually labeled "artisanal." That kin=
d
> of pasta has the best flavor and also a rougher texture, so it can grab=

> the sauce. You couldn't cook spaghetti this way, but almost any
> short-cut pasta, penne, for example, or gemelli or fusilli, would work.=

>=20
> I've served this pasta at my restaurant in Monte Carlo. But it is=20
> really a modest dish, one that I would make at home and one that the=20
> housewives in Liguria serve as the mainstay of a meal. These women are=
=20
> the keepers of the best Italian cooking. A preparation like this also =

> illustrates the deep connection to the actual process and pleasure of=20
> preparing food, something that is essential to me.
>=20
> You're not just standing there waiting for a big pot of water to boil,
> and then waiting for the macaroni to cook, and then applying a sauce.
> You are participating every step of the way, stirring, seasoning,
> reducing the liquid, enjoying the warmth and aromas around you, trustin=
g
> your palate and then sharing what you have prepared with others. It's
> what I adore about cooking."
> =
=20
>=20
> Olive Mill Pasta
>=20
> Time: 45 minutes
> Yield: 4 servings
>=20
> 1/2 cup extra virgin olive oil
> 4 tablespoons butter
> 2 medium-small onions, minced
> 1/4 pound fingerling potatoes, peeled and sliced 1/4-inch thick=20
> 5 1/2 cups, approximately, vegetable or light chicken stock
> 14 ounces artisanal strozzapreti pasta
> Salt and freshly ground black pepper
> 2 medium-size ripe tomatoes, peeled, seeded, juiced and diced, or 2/3=20
> cup diced sun-dried tomatoes, not oil-cured, covered with boiling water=
=20
> and drained=20
> 1 garlic clove, peeled and crushed=20
> 8 branches fresh basil or arugula, leaves removed and slivered,stems=20
> lightly crushed=20
> 1 bunch scallions, trimmed, slant-cut in 1-inch pieces
> 3 ounces freshly grated Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese, about 1 cup
>=20
> 1. Heat 1/4 cup oil in a 10-inch saut=E9 pan. Add butter. When it mel=
ts,
> add onions and potatoes. Cook, stirring gently, over medium heat until=

> they begin to turn golden.
>=20
> 2. In a small saucepan, bring stock to a slow simmer.
>=20
> 3. Add pasta to saut=E9 pan, and stir gently. Lightly season with salt=

> and pepper, and add tomatoes, garlic and basil or arugula stems. Add 1=

> 1/2 cups stock. Cook, stirring gently, until nearly all stock has
> evaporated. Add scallions and another cup of stock, and cook, stirring=
,
> adding additional stock from time to time, so there is always some
> liquid in the pan, until pasta is al dente, about 18 minutes. Remove
> garlic and herb stems.
>=20
> 4. Fold in cheese and all but 1 tablespoon remaining oil. Add slivered=

> herbs. Season with additional salt and pepper if needed. Transfer to
> warm soup plates, taking care that the ingredients are well distributed=
=2E
> Drizzle remaining oil over each and serve.
>=20
> Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company

"Jean B." > wrote in message
...
> Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>>
>> No, but I have tried and liked a recipe (Italian, BTW) where pasta was
>> cooked in its sauce. I can't remember exactly, but it was like, fry
>> pasta in oil with a bit of onion, add passata di pomodoro, herbs,
>> salt, pepper, some water, cook down. If I can find that recipe, i'll
>> post it.
>>
>> Nathalie in Switzerland
>>

Pasta is NEVER cooked in its sauce; it's SAUTED with it.
That's because pasta need to loose most of the starch, and this needs plenty
of water. I use a pan of 4 or 5 liters for up to six portions of pasta.
Even rigatoni, cannelloni or lasagne are first boiled (in plenty of salted
water) before be prepared to the oven.
If you want to saute tthe pasta just drain it 2 or 3 minutes before it's
cooked, drain it leaving a little water wit it (little means two table
spoonfull), and saute the pasta with the sauce.


> I want it! I want it! I just tried a mac and cheese recipe where you
> just (pretty much) plop everything into the oven. Don't have to precook
> the mac. Maybe not the BEST mac in the world, but the ease of preparation
> made up for it. And, best of all, my daughter even liked it!

I have seen in US eithr some kind of "glue" called pasta and raw pasta that
had to be boiled 10 minutes more...
This it the reason why I always have local food and never exotic food
(except chinese, indiian or japanese).
Because this kind of pasta is not poisonous it doesn't mean it's good...

Many years ago I saw in Austria a pasta served with marmalade and fat of
duck. Horrible to see...

Luca

"Jean B." > wrote in message
...
> Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>>
>> No, but I have tried and liked a recipe (Italian, BTW) where pasta was
>> cooked in its sauce. I can't remember exactly, but it was like, fry
>> pasta in oil with a bit of onion, add passata di pomodoro, herbs,
>> salt, pepper, some water, cook down. If I can find that recipe, i'll
>> post it.
>>
>> Nathalie in Switzerland
>>

Pasta is NEVER cooked in its sauce; it's SAUTED with it.
That's because pasta need to loose most of the starch, and this needs plenty
of water. I use a pan of 4 or 5 liters for up to six portions of pasta.
Even rigatoni, cannelloni or lasagne are first boiled (in plenty of salted
water) before be prepared to the oven.
If you want to saute tthe pasta just drain it 2 or 3 minutes before it's
cooked, drain it leaving a little water wit it (little means two table
spoonfull), and saute the pasta with the sauce.


> I want it! I want it! I just tried a mac and cheese recipe where you
> just (pretty much) plop everything into the oven. Don't have to precook
> the mac. Maybe not the BEST mac in the world, but the ease of preparation
> made up for it. And, best of all, my daughter even liked it!

I have seen in US eithr some kind of "glue" called pasta and raw pasta that
had to be boiled 10 minutes more...
This it the reason why I always have local food and never exotic food
(except chinese, indiian or japanese).
Because this kind of pasta is not poisonous it doesn't mean it's good...

Many years ago I saw in Austria a pasta served with marmalade and fat of
duck. Horrible to see...

Luca

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:45:09 +0200, "Luca Pinotti"
> wrote:

>"Jean B." > wrote in message
...
>> Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>>>
>>> No, but I have tried and liked a recipe (Italian, BTW) where pasta was
>>> cooked in its sauce. I can't remember exactly, but it was like, fry
>>> pasta in oil with a bit of onion, add passata di pomodoro, herbs,
>>> salt, pepper, some water, cook down. If I can find that recipe, i'll
>>> post it.
>>>
>>> Nathalie in Switzerland
>>>
>
>Pasta is NEVER cooked in its sauce; it's SAUTED with it.

Don' say *never*. You are Italian, but you can't know *everything*
about every regional Italian dish (just as I'm French, but can't
pretend to know everything about every French regional cooking - I'm
leraning every day, and having surprises too).
This recipe exists, I've seen it, it's Italian and it's good.

Nathali in Switzerland

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:45:09 +0200, "Luca Pinotti"
> wrote:

>"Jean B." > wrote in message
...
>> Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>>>
>>> No, but I have tried and liked a recipe (Italian, BTW) where pasta was
>>> cooked in its sauce. I can't remember exactly, but it was like, fry
>>> pasta in oil with a bit of onion, add passata di pomodoro, herbs,
>>> salt, pepper, some water, cook down. If I can find that recipe, i'll
>>> post it.
>>>
>>> Nathalie in Switzerland
>>>
>
>Pasta is NEVER cooked in its sauce; it's SAUTED with it.

Don' say *never*. You are Italian, but you can't know *everything*
about every regional Italian dish (just as I'm French, but can't
pretend to know everything about every French regional cooking - I'm
leraning every day, and having surprises too).
This recipe exists, I've seen it, it's Italian and it's good.

Nathali in Switzerland

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:55:39 +0200, Nathalie Chiva
> wrote:

>On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:45:09 +0200, "Luca Pinotti"
> wrote:
>
>>"Jean B." > wrote in message
...
>>> Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>>>>
>>>> No, but I have tried and liked a recipe (Italian, BTW) where pasta was
>>>> cooked in its sauce. I can't remember exactly, but it was like, fry
>>>> pasta in oil with a bit of onion, add passata di pomodoro, herbs,
>>>> salt, pepper, some water, cook down. If I can find that recipe, i'll
>>>> post it.
>>>>
>>>> Nathalie in Switzerland
>>>>
>>
>>Pasta is NEVER cooked in its sauce; it's SAUTED with it.
>
>Don' say *never*. You are Italian, but you can't know *everything*
>about every regional Italian dish (just as I'm French, but can't
>pretend to know everything about every French regional cooking - I'm
>leraning every day, and having surprises too).
>This recipe exists, I've seen it, it's Italian and it's good.
>
>Nathali in Switzerland

OK, I'm posting the recipe I was talking about in a separate thread,
but here is a link for you (in Italian):
http://www.gennarino.org/tradizioni/deficeira.htm
So you see, it indeed exists in Italian cooking...

Nathalie in Switzerland

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:55:39 +0200, Nathalie Chiva
> wrote:

>On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:45:09 +0200, "Luca Pinotti"
> wrote:
>
>>"Jean B." > wrote in message
...
>>> Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>>>>
>>>> No, but I have tried and liked a recipe (Italian, BTW) where pasta was
>>>> cooked in its sauce. I can't remember exactly, but it was like, fry
>>>> pasta in oil with a bit of onion, add passata di pomodoro, herbs,
>>>> salt, pepper, some water, cook down. If I can find that recipe, i'll
>>>> post it.
>>>>
>>>> Nathalie in Switzerland
>>>>
>>
>>Pasta is NEVER cooked in its sauce; it's SAUTED with it.
>
>Don' say *never*. You are Italian, but you can't know *everything*
>about every regional Italian dish (just as I'm French, but can't
>pretend to know everything about every French regional cooking - I'm
>leraning every day, and having surprises too).
>This recipe exists, I've seen it, it's Italian and it's good.
>
>Nathali in Switzerland

OK, I'm posting the recipe I was talking about in a separate thread,
but here is a link for you (in Italian):
http://www.gennarino.org/tradizioni/deficeira.htm
So you see, it indeed exists in Italian cooking...

Nathalie in Switzerland

Nathalie Chiva wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:45:09 +0200, "Luca Pinotti"
> > wrote:
>
>> "Jean B." > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>>>>
>>>> No, but I have tried and liked a recipe (Italian, BTW) where pasta
>>>> was cooked in its sauce. I can't remember exactly, but it was
>>>> like, fry pasta in oil with a bit of onion, add passata di
>>>> pomodoro, herbs, salt, pepper, some water, cook down. If I can
>>>> find that recipe, i'll post it.
>>>>
>>>> Nathalie in Switzerland
>>>>
>>
>> Pasta is NEVER cooked in its sauce; it's SAUTED with it.
>
> Don' say *never*. You are Italian, but you can't know *everything*
> about every regional Italian dish (just as I'm French, but can't
> pretend to know everything about every French regional cooking - I'm
> leraning every day, and having surprises too).
> This recipe exists, I've seen it, it's Italian and it's good.

I can say never because I never heard about this recipe, because I know a
pro cook and because we have three TV programs about Italian regional cusine
every week and a short recipe twice a day after the news.
I'm curious. So please send me the recipe or the name so I'll look for it.
Sometimes is called pasta something that is not really a pasta, but looks
like pasta. Gnocchi, for example, are not pasta even if are a first course
and are served with the same sauce.

Please let me know.

Nathalie Chiva wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:55:39 +0200, Nathalie Chiva
> > wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:45:09 +0200, "Luca Pinotti"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> "Jean B." > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> No, but I have tried and liked a recipe (Italian, BTW) where
>>>>> pasta was cooked in its sauce. I can't remember exactly, but it
>>>>> was like, fry pasta in oil with a bit of onion, add passata di
>>>>> pomodoro, herbs, salt, pepper, some water, cook down. If I can
>>>>> find that recipe, i'll post it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nathalie in Switzerland
>>>>>
>>>
>>> Pasta is NEVER cooked in its sauce; it's SAUTED with it.
>>
>> Don' say *never*. You are Italian, but you can't know *everything*
>> about every regional Italian dish (just as I'm French, but can't
>> pretend to know everything about every French regional cooking - I'm
>> leraning every day, and having surprises too).
>> This recipe exists, I've seen it, it's Italian and it's good.
>>
>> Nathali in Switzerland
>
> OK, I'm posting the recipe I was talking about in a separate thread,
> but here is a link for you (in Italian):
> http://www.gennarino.org/tradizioni/deficeira.htm
> So you see, it indeed exists in Italian cooking...

Thanks.
Few considerations:
Because it comes from western Liguria is nearly French... ;-)
Is reported to be desueted ("quasi caduta in disuso") because of the
difficulty to find a pasta that can resist at a 25 minutes cooking. In fact
is describesd to be more a risotto than a pasta.
Is nice to know this recipe, but it has more an historical value than a real
cusine recipe. I know there is restaurant somewhere near Rome where are
prepared acient recipes, from imperial Rome to Etruschi. They serve pork
vagina stuffed and boiled in a mixture of wine and honey. That's italian,
indeed, but I'll not suggest it.

Luca

Nathalie Chiva wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:55:39 +0200, Nathalie Chiva
> > wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:45:09 +0200, "Luca Pinotti"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> "Jean B." > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> No, but I have tried and liked a recipe (Italian, BTW) where
>>>>> pasta was cooked in its sauce. I can't remember exactly, but it
>>>>> was like, fry pasta in oil with a bit of onion, add passata di
>>>>> pomodoro, herbs, salt, pepper, some water, cook down. If I can
>>>>> find that recipe, i'll post it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nathalie in Switzerland
>>>>>
>>>
>>> Pasta is NEVER cooked in its sauce; it's SAUTED with it.
>>
>> Don' say *never*. You are Italian, but you can't know *everything*
>> about every regional Italian dish (just as I'm French, but can't
>> pretend to know everything about every French regional cooking - I'm
>> leraning every day, and having surprises too).
>> This recipe exists, I've seen it, it's Italian and it's good.
>>
>> Nathali in Switzerland
>
> OK, I'm posting the recipe I was talking about in a separate thread,
> but here is a link for you (in Italian):
> http://www.gennarino.org/tradizioni/deficeira.htm
> So you see, it indeed exists in Italian cooking...

Thanks.
Few considerations:
Because it comes from western Liguria is nearly French... ;-)
Is reported to be desueted ("quasi caduta in disuso") because of the
difficulty to find a pasta that can resist at a 25 minutes cooking. In fact
is describesd to be more a risotto than a pasta.
Is nice to know this recipe, but it has more an historical value than a real
cusine recipe. I know there is restaurant somewhere near Rome where are
prepared acient recipes, from imperial Rome to Etruschi. They serve pork
vagina stuffed and boiled in a mixture of wine and honey. That's italian,
indeed, but I'll not suggest it.

Luca

Luca Pinotti wrote:
> Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:45:09 +0200, "Luca Pinotti"
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Jean B." > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>No, but I have tried and liked a recipe (Italian, BTW) where pasta
>>>>>was cooked in its sauce. I can't remember exactly, but it was
>>>>>like, fry pasta in oil with a bit of onion, add passata di
>>>>>pomodoro, herbs, salt, pepper, some water, cook down. If I can
>>>>>find that recipe, i'll post it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Nathalie in Switzerland
>>>>>
>>>
>>>Pasta is NEVER cooked in its sauce; it's SAUTED with it.
>>
>>Don' say *never*. You are Italian, but you can't know *everything*
>>about every regional Italian dish (just as I'm French, but can't
>>pretend to know everything about every French regional cooking - I'm
>>leraning every day, and having surprises too).
>>This recipe exists, I've seen it, it's Italian and it's good.
>
>
> I can say never because I never heard about this recipe, because I know a
> pro cook and because we have three TV programs about Italian regional cusine
> every week and a short recipe twice a day after the news.

I don't see how any of those thing make you an authority on the topic.
Maybe you *are* an authority on Italian food, but not because of those
credentials.

> I'm curious. So please send me the recipe or the name so I'll look for it.
> Sometimes is called pasta something that is not really a pasta, but looks
> like pasta. Gnocchi, for example, are not pasta even if are a first course
> and are served with the same sauce. Please let me know.

Best regards,
Bob

Luca Pinotti wrote:
> Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:45:09 +0200, "Luca Pinotti"
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Jean B." > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>No, but I have tried and liked a recipe (Italian, BTW) where pasta
>>>>>was cooked in its sauce. I can't remember exactly, but it was
>>>>>like, fry pasta in oil with a bit of onion, add passata di
>>>>>pomodoro, herbs, salt, pepper, some water, cook down. If I can
>>>>>find that recipe, i'll post it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Nathalie in Switzerland
>>>>>
>>>
>>>Pasta is NEVER cooked in its sauce; it's SAUTED with it.
>>
>>Don' say *never*. You are Italian, but you can't know *everything*
>>about every regional Italian dish (just as I'm French, but can't
>>pretend to know everything about every French regional cooking - I'm
>>leraning every day, and having surprises too).
>>This recipe exists, I've seen it, it's Italian and it's good.
>
>
> I can say never because I never heard about this recipe, because I know a
> pro cook and because we have three TV programs about Italian regional cusine
> every week and a short recipe twice a day after the news.

I don't see how any of those thing make you an authority on the topic.
Maybe you *are* an authority on Italian food, but not because of those
credentials.

> I'm curious. So please send me the recipe or the name so I'll look for it.
> Sometimes is called pasta something that is not really a pasta, but looks
> like pasta. Gnocchi, for example, are not pasta even if are a first course
> and are served with the same sauce. Please let me know.

Best regards,
Bob

"Curly Sue" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 12:16:07 -0500, zxcvbob >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Jake-leg" was a very specific problem during Prohibition caused by
>>triorthocresyl phosphate added to a patent medicine called Jamaican
>>Ginger. It's not something you would get from bad moonshine -- at least
>>not since about 60 or 70 years ago.
>
> I've wondered for a long time *why* the TOCP ended up in a batch of
> Ginger Jake. This stuff has even been a contaminant in other
> beverages (not in the US) in the past 10 yr..
>
> After reading these rfc posts I did another web search and got a
> couple of different clues on the "why"/"how," still nothing definitive
> except that it was intentional (in the Jake instance).
>
> Also, thanks Jack for the refernce to the song!
>
> Sue(tm)
> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

I enjoy finding small snippets of history where I thought there wasn't any
more.

Jack Hystery

"Curly Sue" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 12:16:07 -0500, zxcvbob >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Jake-leg" was a very specific problem during Prohibition caused by
>>triorthocresyl phosphate added to a patent medicine called Jamaican
>>Ginger. It's not something you would get from bad moonshine -- at least
>>not since about 60 or 70 years ago.
>
> I've wondered for a long time *why* the TOCP ended up in a batch of
> Ginger Jake. This stuff has even been a contaminant in other
> beverages (not in the US) in the past 10 yr..
>
> After reading these rfc posts I did another web search and got a
> couple of different clues on the "why"/"how," still nothing definitive
> except that it was intentional (in the Jake instance).
>
> Also, thanks Jack for the refernce to the song!
>
> Sue(tm)
> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

I enjoy finding small snippets of history where I thought there wasn't any
more.

Jack Hystery

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
> joannie wrote:
>>
>> what a disappointment! i thought this was a cooking NG. not a bunch of
>> folks making insulting and racist remarks. Dago? not too nice. you
>> all need to grow up a bit..........
>
> I wasn't aware we were here for your amusement.
>
> nancy

We're not???!!! Oh, I'll take things more seriously then.

Jack Stoic

zxcvbob wrote:
> Luca Pinotti wrote:
>> Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:45:09 +0200, "Luca Pinotti"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> "Jean B." > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> No, but I have tried and liked a recipe (Italian, BTW) where
>>>>>> pasta was cooked in its sauce. I can't remember exactly, but it was
>>>>>> like, fry pasta in oil with a bit of onion, add passata di
>>>>>> pomodoro, herbs, salt, pepper, some water, cook down. If I can
>>>>>> find that recipe, i'll post it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nathalie in Switzerland
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pasta is NEVER cooked in its sauce; it's SAUTED with it.
>>>
>>> Don' say *never*. You are Italian, but you can't know *everything*
>>> about every regional Italian dish (just as I'm French, but can't
>>> pretend to know everything about every French regional cooking - I'm
>>> leraning every day, and having surprises too).
>>> This recipe exists, I've seen it, it's Italian and it's good.
>>
>>
>> I can say never because I never heard about this recipe, because I
>> know a pro cook and because we have three TV programs about Italian
>> regional cusine every week and a short recipe twice a day after the
>> news.
>
> I don't see how any of those thing make you an authority on the topic.
> Maybe you *are* an authority on Italian food, but not because of those
> credentials.

You are right. This was just en example of how the regional cusine is taken
into account here, and how many information we have about local recipes.
I'm not saying I'm an authority because I'm not; I'm just informed enough to
ask to not confuse cooking with archeology.

zxcvbob wrote:
> Luca Pinotti wrote:
>> Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:45:09 +0200, "Luca Pinotti"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> "Jean B." > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> No, but I have tried and liked a recipe (Italian, BTW) where
>>>>>> pasta was cooked in its sauce. I can't remember exactly, but it was
>>>>>> like, fry pasta in oil with a bit of onion, add passata di
>>>>>> pomodoro, herbs, salt, pepper, some water, cook down. If I can
>>>>>> find that recipe, i'll post it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nathalie in Switzerland
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pasta is NEVER cooked in its sauce; it's SAUTED with it.
>>>
>>> Don' say *never*. You are Italian, but you can't know *everything*
>>> about every regional Italian dish (just as I'm French, but can't
>>> pretend to know everything about every French regional cooking - I'm
>>> leraning every day, and having surprises too).
>>> This recipe exists, I've seen it, it's Italian and it's good.
>>
>>
>> I can say never because I never heard about this recipe, because I
>> know a pro cook and because we have three TV programs about Italian
>> regional cusine every week and a short recipe twice a day after the
>> news.
>
> I don't see how any of those thing make you an authority on the topic.
> Maybe you *are* an authority on Italian food, but not because of those
> credentials.

You are right. This was just en example of how the regional cusine is taken
into account here, and how many information we have about local recipes.
I'm not saying I'm an authority because I'm not; I'm just informed enough to
ask to not confuse cooking with archeology.

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:14:04 GMT, "Jack Schidt®"
> wrote:

>
>"Curly Sue" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 12:16:07 -0500, zxcvbob >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Jake-leg" was a very specific problem during Prohibition caused by
>>>triorthocresyl phosphate added to a patent medicine called Jamaican
>>>Ginger. It's not something you would get from bad moonshine -- at least
>>>not since about 60 or 70 years ago.
>>
>> I've wondered for a long time *why* the TOCP ended up in a batch of
>> Ginger Jake. This stuff has even been a contaminant in other
>> beverages (not in the US) in the past 10 yr..
>>
>> After reading these rfc posts I did another web search and got a
>> couple of different clues on the "why"/"how," still nothing definitive
>> except that it was intentional (in the Jake instance).
>>
>> Also, thanks Jack for the refernce to the song!
>>
>> Sue(tm)
>> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
>
>I enjoy finding small snippets of history where I thought there wasn't any
>more.
>
>Jack Hystery

There is lots out there; just a matter of documentation! Some is easy
to find; other stuff is more obscure. Here's another you might not
have heard of: "radium girls."

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:14:04 GMT, "Jack Schidt®"
> wrote:

>
>"Curly Sue" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 12:16:07 -0500, zxcvbob >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Jake-leg" was a very specific problem during Prohibition caused by
>>>triorthocresyl phosphate added to a patent medicine called Jamaican
>>>Ginger. It's not something you would get from bad moonshine -- at least
>>>not since about 60 or 70 years ago.
>>
>> I've wondered for a long time *why* the TOCP ended up in a batch of
>> Ginger Jake. This stuff has even been a contaminant in other
>> beverages (not in the US) in the past 10 yr..
>>
>> After reading these rfc posts I did another web search and got a
>> couple of different clues on the "why"/"how," still nothing definitive
>> except that it was intentional (in the Jake instance).
>>
>> Also, thanks Jack for the refernce to the song!
>>
>> Sue(tm)
>> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
>
>I enjoy finding small snippets of history where I thought there wasn't any
>more.
>
>Jack Hystery

There is lots out there; just a matter of documentation! Some is easy
to find; other stuff is more obscure. Here's another you might not
have heard of: "radium girls."

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Curly Sue wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:14:04 GMT, "Jack Schidt®"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>"Curly Sue" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 12:16:07 -0500, zxcvbob >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Jake-leg" was a very specific problem during Prohibition caused by
>>>>triorthocresyl phosphate added to a patent medicine called Jamaican
>>>>Ginger. It's not something you would get from bad moonshine -- at least
>>>>not since about 60 or 70 years ago.
>>>
>>>I've wondered for a long time *why* the TOCP ended up in a batch of
>>>Ginger Jake. This stuff has even been a contaminant in other
>>>beverages (not in the US) in the past 10 yr..
>>>
>>>After reading these rfc posts I did another web search and got a
>>>couple of different clues on the "why"/"how," still nothing definitive
>>>except that it was intentional (in the Jake instance).
>>>
>>>Also, thanks Jack for the refernce to the song!
>>>
>>>Sue(tm)
>>>Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
>>
>>I enjoy finding small snippets of history where I thought there wasn't any
>>more.
>>
>>Jack Hystery
>
>
> There is lots out there; just a matter of documentation! Some is easy
> to find; other stuff is more obscure. Here's another you might not
> have heard of: "radium girls."
>

It that the ones who used to paint the glow-in-the-dark paint on clocks
and watches back in, I dunno, 1950? And some of them would lick the
tips of the brushes to get a sharp point?

Bob

Curly Sue wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:14:04 GMT, "Jack Schidt®"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>"Curly Sue" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 12:16:07 -0500, zxcvbob >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Jake-leg" was a very specific problem during Prohibition caused by
>>>>triorthocresyl phosphate added to a patent medicine called Jamaican
>>>>Ginger. It's not something you would get from bad moonshine -- at least
>>>>not since about 60 or 70 years ago.
>>>
>>>I've wondered for a long time *why* the TOCP ended up in a batch of
>>>Ginger Jake. This stuff has even been a contaminant in other
>>>beverages (not in the US) in the past 10 yr..
>>>
>>>After reading these rfc posts I did another web search and got a
>>>couple of different clues on the "why"/"how," still nothing definitive
>>>except that it was intentional (in the Jake instance).
>>>
>>>Also, thanks Jack for the refernce to the song!
>>>
>>>Sue(tm)
>>>Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
>>
>>I enjoy finding small snippets of history where I thought there wasn't any
>>more.
>>
>>Jack Hystery
>
>
> There is lots out there; just a matter of documentation! Some is easy
> to find; other stuff is more obscure. Here's another you might not
> have heard of: "radium girls."
>

It that the ones who used to paint the glow-in-the-dark paint on clocks
and watches back in, I dunno, 1950? And some of them would lick the
tips of the brushes to get a sharp point?

Bob

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:54:15 -0500, zxcvbob >
wrote:

>Curly Sue wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:14:04 GMT, "Jack Schidt®"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Curly Sue" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 12:16:07 -0500, zxcvbob >
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Jake-leg" was a very specific problem during Prohibition caused by
>>>>>triorthocresyl phosphate added to a patent medicine called Jamaican
>>>>>Ginger. It's not something you would get from bad moonshine -- at least
>>>>>not since about 60 or 70 years ago.
>>>>
>>>>I've wondered for a long time *why* the TOCP ended up in a batch of
>>>>Ginger Jake. This stuff has even been a contaminant in other
>>>>beverages (not in the US) in the past 10 yr..
>>>>
>>>>After reading these rfc posts I did another web search and got a
>>>>couple of different clues on the "why"/"how," still nothing definitive
>>>>except that it was intentional (in the Jake instance).
>>>>
>>>>Also, thanks Jack for the refernce to the song!
>>>>
>>>>Sue(tm)
>>>>Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
>>>
>>>I enjoy finding small snippets of history where I thought there wasn't any
>>>more.
>>>
>>>Jack Hystery
>>
>>
>> There is lots out there; just a matter of documentation! Some is easy
>> to find; other stuff is more obscure. Here's another you might not
>> have heard of: "radium girls."
>>
>
>It that the ones who used to paint the glow-in-the-dark paint on clocks
>and watches back in, I dunno, 1950? And some of them would lick the
>tips of the brushes to get a sharp point?
>
>Bob

Yes, but I believe it was about 30 yr earlier than that.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:54:15 -0500, zxcvbob >
wrote:

>Curly Sue wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:14:04 GMT, "Jack Schidt®"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Curly Sue" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 12:16:07 -0500, zxcvbob >
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Jake-leg" was a very specific problem during Prohibition caused by
>>>>>triorthocresyl phosphate added to a patent medicine called Jamaican
>>>>>Ginger. It's not something you would get from bad moonshine -- at least
>>>>>not since about 60 or 70 years ago.
>>>>
>>>>I've wondered for a long time *why* the TOCP ended up in a batch of
>>>>Ginger Jake. This stuff has even been a contaminant in other
>>>>beverages (not in the US) in the past 10 yr..
>>>>
>>>>After reading these rfc posts I did another web search and got a
>>>>couple of different clues on the "why"/"how," still nothing definitive
>>>>except that it was intentional (in the Jake instance).
>>>>
>>>>Also, thanks Jack for the refernce to the song!
>>>>
>>>>Sue(tm)
>>>>Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
>>>
>>>I enjoy finding small snippets of history where I thought there wasn't any
>>>more.
>>>
>>>Jack Hystery
>>
>>
>> There is lots out there; just a matter of documentation! Some is easy
>> to find; other stuff is more obscure. Here's another you might not
>> have heard of: "radium girls."
>>
>
>It that the ones who used to paint the glow-in-the-dark paint on clocks
>and watches back in, I dunno, 1950? And some of them would lick the
>tips of the brushes to get a sharp point?
>
>Bob

Yes, but I believe it was about 30 yr earlier than that.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Bob (this one) > wrote:

> But
> Ducasse has made a simple, rather unusual, rustic dish into some
> hyperfastidious, hoity-toity affair

It doesn't really look particularly hoity-toity or hyperfastidious to
me. The recipe looks very similar to many risotto ones, not any more
complicated.

> and he "would not cook macaroni
> any other way."

Indeed, that was ridiculous. Another gem is "I prefer dry pasta,
macaroni, to fresh noodles."

> How pompously silly he looks. "I've served this pasta at my restaurant
> in Monte Carlo. But it is really a modest dish, one that I would make
> at home and one that the housewives in Liguria serve as the mainstay
> of a meal. These women are the keepers of the best Italian cooking.
> A preparation like this also illustrates the deep connection to the
> actual process and pleasure of preparing food, something that is
> essential to me."

I don't necessarily agree. The last sentence is indeed a bit precious,
but I wonder who really wrote it. Ducasse, who is of course French, is
obviously not sure enough of his English or of his general ability to
express himself if he had to be assigned a co-author, Florence
Fabricant, for a single, short article/recipe. As to his supposed
pomposity, I would say that a chef with a total of six or seven Michelin
stars at extremely expensive restaurants usually can't fail to have a
reputation of someone serving hoity-toity or hyperfastidious dishes and
his mentioning his offering such a modest dish at his restaurant in
Monte Carlo does serve a useful purpose.

Victor

Bob (this one) > wrote:

> But
> Ducasse has made a simple, rather unusual, rustic dish into some
> hyperfastidious, hoity-toity affair

It doesn't really look particularly hoity-toity or hyperfastidious to
me. The recipe looks very similar to many risotto ones, not any more
complicated.

> and he "would not cook macaroni
> any other way."

Indeed, that was ridiculous. Another gem is "I prefer dry pasta,
macaroni, to fresh noodles."

> How pompously silly he looks. "I've served this pasta at my restaurant
> in Monte Carlo. But it is really a modest dish, one that I would make
> at home and one that the housewives in Liguria serve as the mainstay
> of a meal. These women are the keepers of the best Italian cooking.
> A preparation like this also illustrates the deep connection to the
> actual process and pleasure of preparing food, something that is
> essential to me."

I don't necessarily agree. The last sentence is indeed a bit precious,
but I wonder who really wrote it. Ducasse, who is of course French, is
obviously not sure enough of his English or of his general ability to
express himself if he had to be assigned a co-author, Florence
Fabricant, for a single, short article/recipe. As to his supposed
pomposity, I would say that a chef with a total of six or seven Michelin
stars at extremely expensive restaurants usually can't fail to have a
reputation of someone serving hoity-toity or hyperfastidious dishes and
his mentioning his offering such a modest dish at his restaurant in
Monte Carlo does serve a useful purpose.

Victor

Victor Sack wrote:

> Bob (this one) > wrote:
>
>> But Ducasse has made a simple, rather unusual, rustic dish into
>> some hyperfastidious, hoity-toity affair
>
> It doesn't really look particularly hoity-toity or hyperfastidious
> to me. The recipe looks very similar to many risotto ones, not any
> more complicated.
>
>> and he "would not cook macaroni any other way."
>
> Indeed, that was ridiculous. Another gem is "I prefer dry pasta,
> macaroni, to fresh noodles."

<G> If this is the only way he'll cook pasta, he's kinda stuck with
his choices. Dry or none.

>> How pompously silly he looks. "I've served this pasta at my
>> restaurant in Monte Carlo. But it is really a modest dish, one
>> that I would make at home and one that the housewives in Liguria
>> serve as the mainstay of a meal. These women are the keepers of
>> the best Italian cooking. A preparation like this also
>> illustrates the deep connection to the actual process and
>> pleasure of preparing food, something that is essential to me."
>
> I don't necessarily agree. The last sentence is indeed a bit
> precious, but I wonder who really wrote it. Ducasse, who is of
> course French, is obviously not sure enough of his English or of
> his general ability to express himself if he had to be assigned a
> co-author, Florence Fabricant, for a single, short article/recipe.
> As to his supposed pomposity, I would say that a chef with a total
> of six or seven Michelin stars at extremely expensive restaurants
> usually can't fail to have a reputation of someone serving
> hoity-toity or hyperfastidious dishes and his mentioning his
> offering such a modest dish at his restaurant in Monte Carlo does
> serve a useful purpose.

Victor, there's no question, IMO, that Ducasse is a world-class
culinary talent and a major international influence. I just think this
sort of inflated propaganda sells him short. Florence should know
better than to pen such raised-eyebrow stuff.

"A preparation like this also illustrates the deep connection to the
actual process and pleasure of preparing food, something that is
essential to me." This reads like some annual report from a dot com
company (written by some hypergeek computer wizard who cut all his
language classes) where I know what each word means but the totality
is no longer English.

I think it's funny how much of this there is in the culinary world.

Good thing they're judged on the food, not their words. <G>

Pastorio

Victor Sack wrote:

> Bob (this one) > wrote:
>
>> But Ducasse has made a simple, rather unusual, rustic dish into
>> some hyperfastidious, hoity-toity affair
>
> It doesn't really look particularly hoity-toity or hyperfastidious
> to me. The recipe looks very similar to many risotto ones, not any
> more complicated.
>
>> and he "would not cook macaroni any other way."
>
> Indeed, that was ridiculous. Another gem is "I prefer dry pasta,
> macaroni, to fresh noodles."

<G> If this is the only way he'll cook pasta, he's kinda stuck with
his choices. Dry or none.

>> How pompously silly he looks. "I've served this pasta at my
>> restaurant in Monte Carlo. But it is really a modest dish, one
>> that I would make at home and one that the housewives in Liguria
>> serve as the mainstay of a meal. These women are the keepers of
>> the best Italian cooking. A preparation like this also
>> illustrates the deep connection to the actual process and
>> pleasure of preparing food, something that is essential to me."
>
> I don't necessarily agree. The last sentence is indeed a bit
> precious, but I wonder who really wrote it. Ducasse, who is of
> course French, is obviously not sure enough of his English or of
> his general ability to express himself if he had to be assigned a
> co-author, Florence Fabricant, for a single, short article/recipe.
> As to his supposed pomposity, I would say that a chef with a total
> of six or seven Michelin stars at extremely expensive restaurants
> usually can't fail to have a reputation of someone serving
> hoity-toity or hyperfastidious dishes and his mentioning his
> offering such a modest dish at his restaurant in Monte Carlo does
> serve a useful purpose.

Victor, there's no question, IMO, that Ducasse is a world-class
culinary talent and a major international influence. I just think this
sort of inflated propaganda sells him short. Florence should know
better than to pen such raised-eyebrow stuff.

"A preparation like this also illustrates the deep connection to the
actual process and pleasure of preparing food, something that is
essential to me." This reads like some annual report from a dot com
company (written by some hypergeek computer wizard who cut all his
language classes) where I know what each word means but the totality
is no longer English.

I think it's funny how much of this there is in the culinary world.

Good thing they're judged on the food, not their words. <G>

Pastorio

Some suggested I experiement. And I did!

I am happy to report to you that I cooked some pasta TWICE according
to the recipe I have heard from my friend, which calls for NOT
draining the water.

It turned out to be delicious.

Here is my recipe:

1 lb pasta
1/2 cup water.
Salt to taste.
4 tablespoons of virgin olive oil

Add the olive oil and salt to water and bring it to a boil in a pot.
Reduce heat.

Add the pasta, make sure you to immerse all in water right away by
constantly stirring it for a few minutes.

Close the lid of the pot, and simmer for about 8 minutes. Start
checking the pasta aftrwards regularly until done.

Make sure the pot is deep enough to avoid boiling over. If you still
get boil overs, leave the lis slightly ajar.

The pasta tastes very different when done this way. It does not taste
starchy at all as some said it would.

Next I will try adding some sauce and see how it tastes then.

Deguza



(Kompu Kid) wrote in message . com>...
> Hello All:
>
> I looked in the archives of this newsgroup but could not find any
> discussions on this.
>
> A friend of mine says that there is an alternate way of cooking pasta:
>
> - Put enough water in a pot. Add pasta and salt.
> - Bring the mix to a boil.
> - Then simmer until water is gone.
>
> The process is much like cooking rice.
>
> He could not give me the amount of water needed off hand, but
> suggested that I start with a 1 to 1 ratio.
>
> He operates an Italian restaurant so I assume he knows what he is
> saying.
>
> Has anybody else run into cooking pasta this way?
>
> Deguza

Almost forgot:

Somebody else is talking about cooking the pasta this way as well.
See: http://www.htby.org/archives/000184.html

Gal Called J.J. wrote:
> One time on Usenet, "Bob (this one)" > said:
>
>>Kompu Kid wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Almost forgot:
>>>
>>>Somebody else is talking about cooking the pasta this way as well.
>>>See: http://www.htby.org/archives/000184.html
>>
>>I looked it over and didn't see anybody talking about cooking pasta
>>the way you suggested without draining the water. What I saw were a
>>bunch of incompetent and ignorant cooks speculating about a technique
>>that's already well-established.
>
>
> I had to chuckle at the way the discussion degenerates into
> sneaky advertising plugs.
>
> <snip>
>
>>You can't immerse a pound of pasta in 1/2 cup water. The best you can
>>hope for is to dampen the surfaces with all that stirring, and it
>>absolutely eliminates stranded pastas like spaghetti or linguine.
>>
>>1/2 cup water weighs 1/4 pound. Even adding in the oil (1/4 cup), it
>>would give the finished pasta a total weight of less than 1 1/2 pounds.
>>
>>Bullshit.
>
> The first thing that comes to my mind is "how hard is it to just
> drain the damned pasta?"! Someone once told me that my grandmother
> didn't boil her pasta, she turned off the heat and let it sit. I
> tried this once, but I thought it tasted water-logged. I tend to
> think I must have done it wrong...

It was water-logged. Did they also say that her pasta was good?

I thought not.

Pastorio

Gal Called J.J. wrote:

> One time on Usenet, "Bob (this one)" > said:
>
>>Gal Called J.J. wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>>The first thing that comes to my mind is "how hard is it to just
>>>drain the damned pasta?"! Someone once told me that my grandmother
>>>didn't boil her pasta, she turned off the heat and let it sit. I
>>>tried this once, but I thought it tasted water-logged. I tend to
>>>think I must have done it wrong...
>>
>>It was water-logged. Did they also say that her pasta was good?
>>
>>I thought not.
>
> Au contraire, learned Bob -- Gramma's seafood spaghetti was
> a big favorite with family and friends. But given that your
> reaction to the non-boil method is the same as mine, I suspect
> that the informant in this case was just confused about how she
> cooked the pasta. This discussion took place long after Gramma
> had passed, and while it didn't really sound right to me, I had
> to try it. I wish I'd paid better attention to her cooking
> methods when I had the chance...

There's an obscure way to finish cooking pasta in the sauce that I've
seen in a few Italian kitchens. It consists of kind of par-boiling the
pasta (like 4 minutes), mixing it with sauce, and finishing it in a
closed vessel in the oven. Always done with strongly flavored sauces,
particularly seafood.

I've even seen this done in a parchment package - "en papillote" as a
French chef would say. It's good. The pasta ends up a tad more firm
than usual with very rich flavoring from the sauce. Fussy, though. A
few minutes too many and you have fish-flavored glue.

Pastorio

Bob (this one) wrote:
> Gal Called J.J. wrote:
>
>> One time on Usenet, "Bob (this one)" > said:
>>
>>> Gal Called J.J. wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> The first thing that comes to my mind is "how hard is it to just
>>>> drain the damned pasta?"! Someone once told me that my grandmother
>>>> didn't boil her pasta, she turned off the heat and let it sit. I
>>>> tried this once, but I thought it tasted water-logged. I tend to
>>>> think I must have done it wrong...
>>>
>>> It was water-logged. Did they also say that her pasta was good?
>>>
>>> I thought not.
>>
>> Au contraire, learned Bob -- Gramma's seafood spaghetti was
>> a big favorite with family and friends. But given that your
>> reaction to the non-boil method is the same as mine, I suspect
>> that the informant in this case was just confused about how she
>> cooked the pasta. This discussion took place long after Gramma
>> had passed, and while it didn't really sound right to me, I had
>> to try it. I wish I'd paid better attention to her cooking
>> methods when I had the chance...
>
> There's an obscure way to finish cooking pasta in the sauce that I've
> seen in a few Italian kitchens. It consists of kind of par-boiling the
> pasta (like 4 minutes), mixing it with sauce, and finishing it in a
> closed vessel in the oven. Always done with strongly flavored sauces,
> particularly seafood.

> I've even seen this done in a parchment package - "en papillote" as a
> French chef would say. It's good. The pasta ends up a tad more firm
> than usual with very rich flavoring from the sauce. Fussy, though. A

These are spaghetti "al cartoccio". Sometimes called "allo scoglio"
although this can be finished in a pan and not "en papillote".
Better to define the recipe as "spaghetti di mare al cartoccio" because you
could find "spaghetti al catoccio" with a different recipes (just tuna fish
and no fresh seafood).


Anyway, this could help:
From www.dececco.it
"There is a lot more to learn when it comes to cooking pasta. The art of
pasta making starts from the choice of the pasta itself, but it requires
attention and care even before it meets the sauce, which should enhance its
aroma and flavour and not cover its imperfections.
To bring a plate of perfect pasta to the table, scrupulously follow the main
cooking rules.

First of all choose a large saucepan, in order to collect as much heat as
possible, it should be wide enough to comfortably contain the water needed
for cooking the pasta, i.e. a litre of water every hundred grams of pasta.
The third rule regards the salt; it should be kitchen salt and its quantity
should be in proportioned to the quantity of water: 10 g of salt for each
litre of water.

When the water reaches a rolling boil, salt it and toss the pasta in it. At
De Cecco we always suggest raising the heat and covering the pan with a lid
in order to bring the water to the boil again. After the first stir to
separate the pasta, let it cook following cooking time indications, which
change according to the different types of pasta, recommended by De Cecco
and indicated on each packet."

Luca

--
Nolite proicere margaritas ad porcos