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Obesity police's shaky science

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opi...73,print.story


And even if being thinner were better for you, DIETS DON'T WORK:

http://www.reuters.com/article/gc08/...2?pageNumber=1

"We concluded most of them would have been better off not going on the
diet at all. Their weight would be pretty much the same, and their
bodies would not suffer the wear and tear from losing weight and gaining
it all back," said Mann.

"Diets do not lead to sustained weight loss or health benefits for the
majority of people."


Diets don't work: http://kateharding.net/2007/04/12/diets-dont-work-but/

Diets don't work:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/0...s-dont-work-2/

(Might need registration, so here it is in full:

More Evidence That Diets Don’t Work
By tbilanow

As if we needed a reminder that diets mostly fail, The New England
Journal of Medicine has published a new report on an intense, tightly
controlled experiment involving more than 300 moderately obese people.

After two years of effort the dieters lost, on average, 6 to 10 pounds.
The study, funded in part by the Atkins Research Foundation, seemed
designed to prove that low-carb diets trump low-fat diets. But in the
end, all it really showed is that dieters can put forth tremendous
effort and reap very little benefit.

Dr. Dean Ornish, a proponent of low-fat diets, is critical of the study
design, particularly the fact that the so-called “low-fat” diet group
was really only a moderate-fat diet that included about 30 percent of
calories from fat. He writes more about the issue in a Newsweek column here.

The New England Journal report also affirmed something many women have
believed all along — that low-carb diets work better for men than women.
Male low-carb dieters lost about 11 pounds, compared to about 9 pounds
on a Mediterranean diet. Women low-carb dieters lost only about 5
pounds, compared to about 14 on the Mediterranean diet.

Diets don't work:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/po...5F60B2E1AB3C7F

And so on. Now can we get back to talking about cooking?

ObFood: I came home exhausted, and the kid was making dinner. She
doesn't cook much, and she wasn't impressed with her simple dinner of
veggies and rice, but I loved it, and I so appreciated her taking care
of us in that way.

Serene
--
42 Magazine, celebrating life with meaning. Inaugural issue is here!
http://42magazine.com

"But here's a handy hint: if your fabulous theory for ending war and
all other human conflict will not survive an online argument with
humourless feminists who are not afraid to throw rape around as an
example, your theory needs work." -- Aqua, alt.polyamory
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"Serene Vannoy" > wrote
?
>
> ObFood: I came home exhausted, and the kid was making dinner. She doesn't
> cook much, and she wasn't impressed with her simple dinner of veggies and
> rice, but I loved it, and I so appreciated her taking care of us in that
> way.


She sounds like a good kid.


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"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Serene Vannoy" > wrote
> ?
>>
>> ObFood: I came home exhausted, and the kid was making dinner. She doesn't
>> cook much, and she wasn't impressed with her simple dinner of veggies and
>> rice, but I loved it, and I so appreciated her taking care of us in that
>> way.

>
> She sounds like a good kid.


And well loved) There is a lot of love in that house



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cybercat wrote:
> "Serene Vannoy" > wrote
> ?
>> ObFood: I came home exhausted, and the kid was making dinner. She doesn't
>> cook much, and she wasn't impressed with her simple dinner of veggies and
>> rice, but I loved it, and I so appreciated her taking care of us in that
>> way.

>
> She sounds like a good kid.


She's a really good kid. She's had a hard few years, and she's coming
out of it well.

Serene

--
42 Magazine, celebrating life with meaning. Inaugural issue is here!
http://42magazine.com

"But here's a handy hint: if your fabulous theory for ending war and
all other human conflict will not survive an online argument with
humourless feminists who are not afraid to throw rape around as an
example, your theory needs work." -- Aqua, alt.polyamory
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Ophelia wrote:
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Serene Vannoy" > wrote
>> ?
>>> ObFood: I came home exhausted, and the kid was making dinner. She doesn't
>>> cook much, and she wasn't impressed with her simple dinner of veggies and
>>> rice, but I loved it, and I so appreciated her taking care of us in that
>>> way.

>> She sounds like a good kid.

>
> And well loved) There is a lot of love in that house
>
>
>


Yep. We're awfully lucky.

ObFood: Tonight, we stopped for hamburgers on our way home and got one
for the kid. Also, I got the best ever grape tomatoes for a dollar a
pound, and I'm gonna snarf a bazillion of them for "dessert".

Serene

--
42 Magazine, celebrating life with meaning. Inaugural issue is here!
http://42magazine.com

"But here's a handy hint: if your fabulous theory for ending war and
all other human conflict will not survive an online argument with
humourless feminists who are not afraid to throw rape around as an
example, your theory needs work." -- Aqua, alt.polyamory


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"Serene Vannoy" > wrote
>
> ObFood: Tonight, we stopped for hamburgers on our way home and got one for
> the kid. Also, I got the best ever grape tomatoes for a dollar a pound,
> and I'm gonna snarf a bazillion of them for "dessert".
>


I love grape tomatos. They are nice sliced (so they will not shoot out the
sides) with raw onions on sub type sandwiches, too. I have been cooking very
little this summer, mostly eating simple stuff like salads and sandwiches
(and watermelon!) at home, with the occasional big old greasy fast food
meal. Today it was a Bojangles bacon egg and cheese biscuit with fries. Big,
seasoned, half-floppy, half crispy, perfect potatoes. Mmm. Also, (and this
should wow the rfc crowd, haha!) I have discovered Shake N Bake, using it on
chicken legs after soaking them in milk for a few hours. Excellent cold, in
salads, or snarfed over the sink off the bone.


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On Jul 30, 11:56*pm, "cybercat" > wrote:
> snarfed over the sink off the bone.


I don't need to hear about your night job, slut.
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cybercat wrote:
> "Serene Vannoy" > wrote
>> ObFood: Tonight, we stopped for hamburgers on our way home and got one for
>> the kid. Also, I got the best ever grape tomatoes for a dollar a pound,
>> and I'm gonna snarf a bazillion of them for "dessert".
>>

>
> I love grape tomatos. They are nice sliced (so they will not shoot out the
> sides) with raw onions on sub type sandwiches, too. I have been cooking very
> little this summer, mostly eating simple stuff like salads and sandwiches
> (and watermelon!) at home, with the occasional big old greasy fast food
> meal. Today it was a Bojangles bacon egg and cheese biscuit with fries. Big,
> seasoned, half-floppy, half crispy, perfect potatoes. Mmm. Also, (and this
> should wow the rfc crowd, haha!) I have discovered Shake N Bake, using it on
> chicken legs after soaking them in milk for a few hours. Excellent cold, in
> salads, or snarfed over the sink off the bone.
>
>


I know the style. I've been eating yogurt and/or cereal for breakfast,
salad/fruit for lunch and or dinner time frame mostly, with an
occasional indulgence. I have some BOGO coupons for Culver's double
deluxe burgers that expire today, so it's likely I'll indulge that
today. I also have some steamed burger with onions and mushrooms I made
yesterday for a more healthy loose meat sandwich yesterday. The left
over will likely go towards a chili on Saturday or Sunday. Guess I'll be
burgered out by the end of the week-end and switching to chicken :-) But
now is the right time to enjoy the salad and fruit as they are at least
50% off around here this time of the season.

Bob
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On Jul 31, 5:56*am, Bob Muncie > wrote:
> cybercat wrote:
> > "Serene Vannoy" > wrote
> >> ObFood: Tonight, we stopped for hamburgers on our way home and got one for
> >> the kid. *Also, I got the best ever grape tomatoes for a dollar a pound,
> >> and I'm gonna snarf a bazillion of them for "dessert".

>
> > I love grape tomatos. They are nice sliced (so they will not shoot out the
> > sides) with raw onions on sub type sandwiches, too. I have been cooking very
> > little this summer, mostly eating simple stuff like salads and sandwiches
> > (and watermelon!) at home, with the occasional big old greasy fast food
> > meal. Today it was a Bojangles bacon egg and cheese biscuit with fries. Big,
> > seasoned, half-floppy, half crispy, perfect potatoes. Mmm. Also, (and this
> > should wow the rfc crowd, haha!) I have discovered Shake N Bake, using it on
> > chicken legs after soaking them in milk for a few hours. Excellent cold, in
> > salads, or snarfed over the sink off the bone.

>
> I know the style. I've been eating yogurt and/or cereal for breakfast,
> salad/fruit for lunch and or dinner time frame mostly, with an
> occasional indulgence. I have some BOGO coupons for Culver's double
> deluxe burgers that expire today, so it's likely I'll indulge that
> today.


Man, my cup runneth over with restaurant coupons. I have buches of
BOGO coupons for any sandwich at a particular McD's. Del Taco put out
a sheet of coupons, so I searched the recycling containers in my old
neighborhood for those, and got lots of BK and Hardee's too, as they
were in the same mailer. I have a bunch of Entertainment books that
are good until Nov. 1, and some restaurant.com dining certificates.

White Castle has a coupon out now too: http://whitecastle.com/craversaver/coupon.html

I'll be getting some other good deals today, as the church is having
their garage sale. Got my eyes on a bike (that needs a little work),
a runner sled (for next winter), an old Monopoly game (for the extra
hotels and such, since my cat likes to relocate them), and a few other
things. I'm lining up early. I want that bike.
>
> Bob


--Bryan
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Bobo Bonobo® said...

> Man, my cup runneth over with restaurant coupons. I have buches of
> BOGO coupons for any sandwich at a particular McD's.


I've never heard of a coupon being location specific!?!


> Del Taco put out
> a sheet of coupons, so I searched the recycling containers in my old
> neighborhood for those,


That paints a terrible mental picture. We used to get poor people going
through curbside trash looking for aluminum cans and they would toss
anything in their way onto the curb. We called them human roaches.


> and got lots of BK and Hardee's too, as they
> were in the same mailer. I have a bunch of Entertainment books that
> are good until Nov. 1, and some restaurant.com dining certificates.
>
> White Castle has a coupon out now too:
> http://whitecastle.com/craversaver/coupon.html


An upgrade? HA!!! Either those are really teeny tiny burgers or there's
something unusually large about the small drink and regular fries. Ah, the
magic of advertising.


> I'll be getting some other good deals today, as the church is having
> their garage sale. Got my eyes on a bike (that needs a little work),
> a runner sled (for next winter), an old Monopoly game (for the extra
> hotels and such, since my cat likes to relocate them), and a few other
> things. I'm lining up early. I want that bike.



I'd give you my Trek 24-speed if you were local. Lately, my hills have
continually gotten steeper and steeper.

Andy


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On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:31:34 -0700, Serene Vannoy >
wrote:

>Ophelia wrote:
>> "cybercat" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Serene Vannoy" > wrote
>>> ?
>>>> ObFood: I came home exhausted, and the kid was making dinner. She doesn't
>>>> cook much, and she wasn't impressed with her simple dinner of veggies and
>>>> rice, but I loved it, and I so appreciated her taking care of us in that
>>>> way.
>>> She sounds like a good kid.

>>
>> And well loved) There is a lot of love in that house
>>
>>
>>

>
>Yep. We're awfully lucky.
>
>ObFood: Tonight, we stopped for hamburgers on our way home and got one
>for the kid. Also, I got the best ever grape tomatoes for a dollar a
>pound, and I'm gonna snarf a bazillion of them for "dessert".
>
>Serene


Picked up two packs at costco, alittle sea salt and they're a terrific dessert.
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"Bob Muncie" > wrote
>
> I know the style. I've been eating yogurt and/or cereal for breakfast,
> salad/fruit for lunch and or dinner time frame mostly, with an occasional
> indulgence. I have some BOGO coupons for Culver's double deluxe burgers
> that expire today, so it's likely I'll indulge that today. I also have
> some steamed burger with onions and mushrooms I made yesterday for a more
> healthy loose meat sandwich yesterday.


Hmm, what is this "steamed burger?"

The left
> over will likely go towards a chili on Saturday or Sunday. Guess I'll be
> burgered out by the end of the week-end and switching to chicken :-) But
> now is the right time to enjoy the salad and fruit as they are at least
> 50% off around here this time of the season.
>


Yes indeed. Man, they had four pints of really nice blueberries (not wild, I
know, I am deprived!) for $6 the other week the most expensive grocery
around, then they were four for $5 couple days ago! I had no idea they are
full of Omega 3 fatty acids, like fish, did you know that?


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> > that expire today, so it's likely I'll indulge that today. I also have
> > some steamed burger with onions and mushrooms I made yesterday for a more
> > healthy loose meat sandwich yesterday.

>
> Hmm, what is this "steamed burger?"
>


The key was he said "loose meat." Just throw the hamburger in a hot
pan and stir it like crazy until it's all broken up and cooked through
- it shouldn't get browned which would make the bits hard and dry. It
just gets "steamed."

N.
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cybercat wrote:
> "Bob Muncie" > wrote
>> I know the style. I've been eating yogurt and/or cereal for breakfast,
>> salad/fruit for lunch and or dinner time frame mostly, with an occasional
>> indulgence. I have some BOGO coupons for Culver's double deluxe burgers
>> that expire today, so it's likely I'll indulge that today. I also have
>> some steamed burger with onions and mushrooms I made yesterday for a more
>> healthy loose meat sandwich yesterday.

>
> Hmm, what is this "steamed burger?"
>
> The left
>> over will likely go towards a chili on Saturday or Sunday. Guess I'll be
>> burgered out by the end of the week-end and switching to chicken :-) But
>> now is the right time to enjoy the salad and fruit as they are at least
>> 50% off around here this time of the season.
>>

>
> Yes indeed. Man, they had four pints of really nice blueberries (not wild, I
> know, I am deprived!) for $6 the other week the most expensive grocery
> around, then they were four for $5 couple days ago! I had no idea they are
> full of Omega 3 fatty acids, like fish, did you know that?
>
>


CC -

I will often times get burger (doesn't matter the % of fat for this cook
method) season well, put in a steamer rack on top of a coffee filter
that sits inside a smaller size stock pot. Two cups of water boiling,
add the steamer rack to the pot, cover and cook for appropriate time
(depends on thickness of the burger. In the above case, I mentioned
loose meat so the form was more like a maid-rite which is just highly
seasoned burger that is in loose format, and served on steamed buns with
mustard, chopped onions, and pickles. I could have also made them in a
hamburger shape (I have those round egg molds for frying eggs for muffin
sandwiches) but since I was making some for chili, I didn't bother.
Throw in a couple of buns to steam before serving. But I did saute
mushrooms and onions in olive oil to add to the burger after I broke it
up. Chopped raw onion is also a normal topping for the sandwiches.

The burger cooked this way is pretty ugly coming out as it's gray, but
it does taste good, and is a healthy way to cook it.

The remainder that I'll use for chili will go into a saute pan with
cumin and chili pepper (I use chipotle), stir until somewhat dry, and
add to chili base (and yes I use beans).

Bob

My dog even benefits as he gets some of the greased water to his dry
food before disposing of the water :-)

In sandwich form, you could also add shredded cheese (I uses cheddar or
mozzarella)or if you formed the burgers, sliced cheese also works well.
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Nancy2 wrote:
>>> that expire today, so it's likely I'll indulge that today. I also have
>>> some steamed burger with onions and mushrooms I made yesterday for a more
>>> healthy loose meat sandwich yesterday.

>> Hmm, what is this "steamed burger?"
>>

>
> The key was he said "loose meat." Just throw the hamburger in a hot
> pan and stir it like crazy until it's all broken up and cooked through
> - it shouldn't get browned which would make the bits hard and dry. It
> just gets "steamed."
>
> N.


Thanks Nancy, and you would be right to assume I started doing it that
way before the steam basket method came to me later on. A traditional
"maid-rite" copykat is to do exactly what you describe, and than add
beef broth back into the mix once the burger is cooked and broken up to
re-moisten (the steam factor I think). That would also allow for the
steaming of the rolls or buns.

Bob


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Bobo Bonobo® wrote:

> Man, my cup runneth over with restaurant coupons. I have buches of
> BOGO coupons for any sandwich at a particular McD's. Del Taco put out
> a sheet of coupons, so I searched the recycling containers in my old
> neighborhood for those, and got lots of BK and Hardee's too, as they
> were in the same mailer. I have a bunch of Entertainment books that
> are good until Nov. 1, and some restaurant.com dining certificates.
>
> White Castle has a coupon out now too: http://whitecastle.com/craversaver/coupon.html


Wait a minute. You rag on people who eat margarine, and you eat at
McDonald's? Yeesh.

Serene

--
42 Magazine, celebrating life with meaning. Inaugural issue is here!
http://42magazine.com

"But here's a handy hint: if your fabulous theory for ending war and
all other human conflict will not survive an online argument with
humourless feminists who are not afraid to throw rape around as an
example, your theory needs work." -- Aqua, alt.polyamory
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"Serene Vannoy" > wrote in message
...
> Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
>
>> Man, my cup runneth over with restaurant coupons. I have buches of
>> BOGO coupons for any sandwich at a particular McD's. Del Taco put out
>> a sheet of coupons, so I searched the recycling containers in my old
>> neighborhood for those, and got lots of BK and Hardee's too, as they
>> were in the same mailer. I have a bunch of Entertainment books that
>> are good until Nov. 1, and some restaurant.com dining certificates.
>>
>> White Castle has a coupon out now too:
>> http://whitecastle.com/craversaver/coupon.html

>
> Wait a minute. You rag on people who eat margarine, and you eat at
> McDonald's? Yeesh.
>


hilarious.

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"Bob Muncie" > wrote
[snips]
>
> In sandwich form, you could also add shredded cheese (I uses cheddar or
> mozzarella)or if you formed the burgers, sliced cheese also works well.


Sounds pretty good!


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On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:11:33 -0700, Serene Vannoy wrote:

> Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
>
>> Man, my cup runneth over with restaurant coupons. I have buches of
>> BOGO coupons for any sandwich at a particular McD's. Del Taco put out
>> a sheet of coupons, so I searched the recycling containers in my old
>> neighborhood for those, and got lots of BK and Hardee's too, as they
>> were in the same mailer. I have a bunch of Entertainment books that
>> are good until Nov. 1, and some restaurant.com dining certificates.
>>
>> White Castle has a coupon out now too: http://whitecastle.com/craversaver/coupon.html

>
> Wait a minute. You rag on people who eat margarine, and you eat at
> McDonald's? Yeesh.
>
> Serene


well, otherwise he would live forever.

your pal,
blake
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On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 07:53:42 -0500, Andy > fired up random
neurons and synapses to opine:

>That paints a terrible mental picture. We used to get poor people going
>through curbside trash looking for aluminum cans and they would toss
>anything in their way onto the curb. We called them human roaches.


The LA City council has been discussing putting locks on homeowners'
recycling bins b/c of this. Personally, I think it's a petty, cruel
move for the more affluent to lock away something that's being thrown
out. Counterintuitive, IMHO, but the City council insists that it will
keep the "undesirables" out of residential neighborhoods. They also
attempted to keep the taco trucks from parking for more than one hour
in one place - claimed it hurt local restaurants. Like a taco truck is
going to be competition for a restaurant? Likewise, the Santa Ana city
council has been discussing banning the ice cream handcarts. What a
crock. What's next? Ban the little old ladies in SA from using their
iconic umbrellas?

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

--

"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "meatloaf" with "cox"






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"Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message >
>>That paints a terrible mental picture. We used to get poor people going
>>through curbside trash looking for aluminum cans and they would toss
>>anything in their way onto the curb. We called them human roaches.

>
> The LA City council has been discussing putting locks on homeowners'
> recycling bins b/c of this. Personally, I think it's a petty, cruel
> move for the more affluent to lock away something that's being thrown
> out. Counterintuitive, IMHO, but the City council insists that it will
> keep the "undesirables" out of residential neighborhoods.


There is money in those bins. The town loses when the aluminum goes into
the pockets of the trash faries instead of the town coffers. I'm sure both
sides make good arguments but I never thought enough about it to take sides.



They also
> attempted to keep the taco trucks from parking for more than one hour
> in one place - claimed it hurt local restaurants. Like a taco truck is
> going to be competition for a restaurant?


Why isn't it? You are walking to a restaurant for lunch at $10 and pass a
taco truck. You decide instead to grab a $2 taco instead of patronizing the
local restaurant. Again, arguments can be made for both views but they do
take customers away from the storefronts. That is capatalism. The truck
should be licensed and paying business taxes though.


Likewise, the Santa Ana city
> council has been discussing banning the ice cream handcarts. What a
> crock.


Probably.


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"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message >
> Likewise, the Santa Ana city
>> council has been discussing banning the ice cream handcarts. What a
>> crock.

>
> Probably.
>

Isn't that similar to what happened in Carmel a few years ago?
Clint East wood for Mayor!




Crazy Californications


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In article >,
Terry Pulliam Burd > wrote:

> The LA City council has been discussing putting locks on homeowners'
> recycling bins b/c of this. Personally, I think it's a petty, cruel
> move for the more affluent to lock away something that's being thrown
> out.


It's stealing. Look for higher garbage rates if it doesn't stop.

> Counterintuitive, IMHO, but the City council insists that it will
> keep the "undesirables" out of residential neighborhoods.


I have had the homeless steal my newspapers. I don't think they were
going to read them, but rather, sleep on them. I have had people steal
aluminum cans. I have tried to tell my son to bring in the beer cans
when he was done. I have found the local old lady in my back yard,
harvesting cans.

> They also
> attempted to keep the taco trucks from parking for more than one hour
> in one place - claimed it hurt local restaurants. Like a taco truck is
> going to be competition for a restaurant?


Of course they are. I like them, but it is something to think about.

> Likewise, the Santa Ana city
> council has been discussing banning the ice cream handcarts. What a
> crock.


Something else to think about. They provide a valuable service, but
they are still competition.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

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Terry Pulliam Burd said...

> On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 07:53:42 -0500, Andy > fired up random
> neurons and synapses to opine:
>
>>That paints a terrible mental picture. We used to get poor people going
>>through curbside trash looking for aluminum cans and they would toss
>>anything in their way onto the curb. We called them human roaches.

>
> The LA City council has been discussing putting locks on homeowners'
> recycling bins b/c of this. Personally, I think it's a petty, cruel
> move for the more affluent to lock away something that's being thrown
> out. Counterintuitive, IMHO, but the City council insists that it will
> keep the "undesirables" out of residential neighborhoods. They also
> attempted to keep the taco trucks from parking for more than one hour
> in one place - claimed it hurt local restaurants. Like a taco truck is
> going to be competition for a restaurant? Likewise, the Santa Ana city
> council has been discussing banning the ice cream handcarts. What a
> crock. What's next? Ban the little old ladies in SA from using their
> iconic umbrellas?
>
> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd



Around center city Philly, there are food carts all over, serving all kinds
of cuisine. Some of the best, actually.

At the courthouse in town, a family holds permits to two food carts, one at
the front and one at the side entrance. They do a landslide business for
the legals who can't stray too far from the courtrooms. The carts are the
ones they stand inside with grills, etc., cooking good food at fair prices.

There are plenty of restaurants blocks or so away but with the population
of jurors, etc., they are all easily overrun at lunch. Jurors get a clip on
lapel pin to get quicker service and 10% off in the interest of time and as
a courtesy for doing their civic duty. I'm very proud of that, having
served jury duty several times.

On recycling... In L.A., at the time, recycling wasn't mandatory. We didn't
have separate recycling bins like we do today. I'm not positive but except
for the return-deposit bottles, the public is not allowed to privately turn
in recyclable materials. In any case, nobody's ever swiped our curb
recycling. Maybe down on the flatlands they do. I dunno.

Andy
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"Andy" > wrote in message ...
> Bobo Bonobo® said...
>
>> Man, my cup runneth over with restaurant coupons. I have buches of
>> BOGO coupons for any sandwich at a particular McD's.

>
> I've never heard of a coupon being location specific!?!
>
>
>> Del Taco put out
>> a sheet of coupons, so I searched the recycling containers in my old
>> neighborhood for those,

>
> That paints a terrible mental picture. We used to get poor people going
> through curbside trash looking for aluminum cans and they would toss
> anything in their way onto the curb. We called them human roaches.



In a large city in Brazil (Curitiba), outside of almost every building is a
re-cycling container. I believe the only things you are allowed to put
there are cardboard, glass and cans. During the day, people can come around
and collect these things and sell them at a city recycling center in
exchange for food vouchers and bus passes. The city also "hires" homeless
and poor people to literally sweep the streets. They are issued a wheeled
barrel and a broom and a safety vest and they walk along, hand sweeping the
gutters and sidewalks. Again, they are paid with food vouchers. Curitiba is
the cleanest city I have ever visited, anywhere.

George L



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"Ed Pawlowski" writes:
>
> There is money in those bins. The town loses when the aluminum goes into
> the pockets of the trash faries instead of the town coffers. I'm sure
> both sides make good arguments but I never thought enough about it to take
> sides.
>
>

In NY all aluminum beverage cans, plastic soda bottles, and glass beverage
bottles carry a 5˘ deposit. Folks can choose to save them and return them
to the stores themselves where they get the deposit money, or bring them to
a neighborhood recycling center where they don't get the deposit money...
many just drop the deposit containers off at the recycling machines at the
markets where anyone can take the time to pass them into the machines. The
deposit is a good thing, it's very rare to find our streets littered with
beverage containers anymore... and those that are tossed from car windows
get collected by the few vagrants who patrol road shoulders for deposit
bottles and other assorted recyleables (good for them). I think it's the
dumbest thing to have home owners place recycleables out at the curb, that
only invites garbage pickers. Deposit bottles is probably one of the most
worthwhile pieces of legislature enacted in the past century


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"brooklyn1" > wrote in message
news
>
> "Ed Pawlowski" writes:
>>
>> There is money in those bins. The town loses when the aluminum goes into
>> the pockets of the trash faries instead of the town coffers. I'm sure
>> both sides make good arguments but I never thought enough about it to
>> take sides.
>>
>>

> In NY all aluminum beverage cans, plastic soda bottles, and glass beverage
> bottles carry a 5˘ deposit. Folks can choose to save them and return them
> to the stores themselves where they get the deposit money, or bring them
> to a neighborhood recycling center where they don't get the deposit
> money... many just drop the deposit containers off at the recycling
> machines at the markets where anyone can take the time to pass them into
> the machines. The deposit is a good thing, it's very rare to find our
> streets littered with beverage containers anymore... and those that are
> tossed from car windows get collected by the few vagrants who patrol road
> shoulders for deposit bottles and other assorted recyleables (good for
> them). I think it's the dumbest thing to have home owners place
> recycleables out at the curb, that only invites garbage pickers. Deposit
> bottles is probably one of the most worthwhile pieces of legislature
> enacted in the past century



I agree. In the cause of limiting litter, I'd like to see a 5 cent tax on
every Styrofoam cup (cold and hot)... especially those huge "bucket-o-soda"
monstrosities. Use the revenue to fund more recycling research.

George L


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On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:24:47 -0700, Dan Abel > wrote:

>> They also
>> attempted to keep the taco trucks from parking for more than one hour
>> in one place - claimed it hurt local restaurants. Like a taco truck is
>> going to be competition for a restaurant?

>
>Of course they are. I like them, but it is something to think about.


I didn't know all that, I just knew some of the smarter truck owners
have resorted to Twitter to alert regulars of their whereabouts.
>
>> Likewise, the Santa Ana city
>> council has been discussing banning the ice cream handcarts. What a
>> crock.

>
>Something else to think about. They provide a valuable service, but
>they are still competition.


Next to go will be the old fashioned ice cream truck. Shame.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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"George Leppla" > wrote in message
>
> I agree. In the cause of limiting litter, I'd like to see a 5 cent tax on
> every Styrofoam cup (cold and hot)... especially those huge
> "bucket-o-soda" monstrosities. Use the revenue to fund more recycling
> research.
>
> George L


The 5˘ tax would be a government money grab. There is no research needed to
recycle them, you just have to get ignorant assholes to put them in the bin
instead of tossing them out the window. They are quite easily recycled with
20+ year old technology.


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"brooklyn1" > wrote in message
> In NY all aluminum beverage cans, plastic soda bottles, and glass beverage
> bottles carry a 5˘ deposit. Folks can choose to save them and return them
> to the stores themselves where they get the deposit money, or bring them
> to a neighborhood recycling center where they don't get the deposit
> money... many just drop the deposit containers off at the recycling
> machines at the markets where anyone can take the time to pass them into
> the machines.


I don't mind hauling them back, I just hate to put them in the machine when
it is crowded. Glass here, cans there and a line waiting for the plastic
machines. I found a better solution. The high school graduating class
takes them as a fund raiser the first Saturday of the month. Just pull up
and pop the trunk and they grab them out for you. .




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On Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:45:47 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" > fired
up random neurons and synapses to opine:

>There is money in those bins. The town loses when the aluminum goes into
>the pockets of the trash faries instead of the town coffers. I'm sure both
>sides make good arguments but I never thought enough about it to take sides.


I can't imagine that it isn't more trouble than it's worth to lock up
the recycling bins, esp. here in SoCal. All the recycling bins I've
seen at the curb aren't segregated by type (paper, cans, glass, etc.),
but just put into one big heap. How does that work, anyway? Do the
bins actually get sorted? How? Always wondered about that...

>Why isn't it? You are walking to a restaurant for lunch at $10 and pass a
>taco truck. You decide instead to grab a $2 taco instead of patronizing the
>local restaurant. Again, arguments can be made for both views but they do
>take customers away from the storefronts. That is capatalism. The truck
>should be licensed and paying business taxes though.


Generally speaking, the taco trucks park in industrial areas, near car
washes, building sites, etc., where there aren't any restaurants.
AAMOF, I don't actually recall having seen any taco trucks parked near
restaurants either in LA or here in OC.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

--

"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "meatloaf" with "cox"




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"Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
>
> I can't imagine that it isn't more trouble than it's worth to lock up
> the recycling bins, esp. here in SoCal. All the recycling bins I've
> seen at the curb aren't segregated by type (paper, cans, glass, etc.),
> but just put into one big heap. How does that work, anyway? Do the
> bins actually get sorted? How? Always wondered about that...


Our town went to that about a year ago. The first sort is with magnets to
get the steel out, then a series of light versus heavy sorting and some h
and picking.
>


>
> Generally speaking, the taco trucks park in industrial areas, near car
> washes, building sites, etc., where there aren't any restaurants.
> AAMOF, I don't actually recall having seen any taco trucks parked near
> restaurants either in LA or here in OC.
>


In that case, it would be of little consequence. One of the towns near us
had problems when trucks were parking on the downtown street taking
customers from the regular places. Most factories have had roach coach
service for years. Parking near a building site would fill a need.


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"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "brooklyn1" > wrote in message
>> In NY all aluminum beverage cans, plastic soda bottles, and glass
>> beverage bottles carry a 5˘ deposit. Folks can choose to save them and
>> return them to the stores themselves where they get the deposit money, or
>> bring them to a neighborhood recycling center where they don't get the
>> deposit money... many just drop the deposit containers off at the
>> recycling machines at the markets where anyone can take the time to pass
>> them into the machines.

>
> I don't mind hauling them back, I just hate to put them in the machine
> when it is crowded. Glass here, cans there and a line waiting for the
> plastic machines. I found a better solution. The high school graduating
> class takes them as a fund raiser the first Saturday of the month. Just
> pull up and pop the trunk and they grab them out for you. .
>

Read my last statement. Many just bring a huge leaf bag filled and leave it
in the deposit return machine room, someone will push them through the
machines... I think that's a better solution than having to remember when
the fund raiser occurs, and what about the rest of the year. I don't have
what I'd consider a lot of deposit containers, I use the machines 2-3 times
a year, maybe $3 worth each time, I don't mind spending ten minutes to get
my deposit back, and I only bring them when I'm going shopping anyway, I
make no special trip. The machines at my stupidmarket are in a separate
alcove built on to the outside of the store, it's one of those all glass 4
season rooms and there is an attendant... it's right adjacent to the front
entrance in full view of the parking lot and the store's service desk, and
it's well lit, it's actually safer than typical ATMs.... the small
stupidmarket here Opens at 7 AM and closes at 8 PM, the deposit machines are
not accessible when the store is closed. They have those new high speed
type machines, they eat the containers as fast as you can feed them. There
are even those hand cleaner/sanitizer stations and wet towel dispensors.
That room is kept clean and safe. There are enough machines to serve our
population, I never had to wait more than a few minutes for someone to
finish, but usually I'm the only one. I do know that some of those return
facilities can be a disgusting mess, depends mostly on the neighborhood.
The only problem I encounter is sometimes when I get home and find the
deposit receipts still in my pocket, I forgot to turn them in at checkout...
next time.



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"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
>>
>> I can't imagine that it isn't more trouble than it's worth to lock up
>> the recycling bins, esp. here in SoCal. All the recycling bins I've
>> seen at the curb aren't segregated by type (paper, cans, glass, etc.),
>> but just put into one big heap. How does that work, anyway? Do the
>> bins actually get sorted? How? Always wondered about that...

>
> Our town went to that about a year ago. The first sort is with magnets to
> get the steel out, then a series of light versus heavy sorting and some h
> and picking.
>
>


Our town like most in NY has a town dump, it's fenced, attended, and
operates by regular business hours... and there is a minimal charge to dump
household trash and different fees to dump appliances, building materials,
etc. I'm not familar with the fees as I pay for private sanitation pick up
but they must be less than I pay as lots of people use the town dump
regularly... my tenant does. My private sanitation pick up is once a week,
this morning in fact, so I have to remember to put it out to the road on
Monday night, with tax costs me $28/month... I feel it's worth the $7/wk not
having to load up my car with smelly garbage and drive to the dump and still
have to pay like $3, and most of my trash by weight is used cat litter.
Most people hereabouts bury it on their property but I'd rather not pollute
my land... they bury their non burnable trash too... hillybillys... they
bury everything, even if a house burns down they doze a big hole and bury it
all, or when they do a major alteration like a new roof or new toilet, they
bury the old stuff. We don't have a lot of recyclables to segregate
because of the deposit containers law. My private trash collection doesn't
require me to separate anything, only that the trash is in a tied plastic
trash bag inside a covered trash can. Also a lot of people here use burn
barrels (55 gallon drums), so their only trash is glass, metal, and plastics
which they bring to the dump when they accumulate enough, if they don't bury
it. Actually the burn barrels are now illegal except when there is snow on
the ground but people still use them all year... my neighbor has one of
those "Chiminia" things on his patio, he sits out there drinking scotch
while he burns trash... he doesn't need the trash burning ambiance as an
excuse, he drinks scotch every day.


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Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
> I can't imagine that it isn't more trouble than it's worth to lock up
> the recycling bins, esp. here in SoCal. All the recycling bins I've
> seen at the curb aren't segregated by type (paper, cans, glass, etc.),
> but just put into one big heap. How does that work, anyway? Do the
> bins actually get sorted? How? Always wondered about that...


They call that "single-stream" recycling. At the recycling plant, the
material goes through giant tumblers that include magnets and fans.
This is much easier for homeowners than using multiple bins.


Becca


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Becca said...

> Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
>> I can't imagine that it isn't more trouble than it's worth to lock up
>> the recycling bins, esp. here in SoCal. All the recycling bins I've
>> seen at the curb aren't segregated by type (paper, cans, glass, etc.),
>> but just put into one big heap. How does that work, anyway? Do the
>> bins actually get sorted? How? Always wondered about that...

>
> They call that "single-stream" recycling. At the recycling plant, the
> material goes through giant tumblers that include magnets and fans.
> This is much easier for homeowners than using multiple bins.
>
>
> Becca



Right! Sorting is a thing of the past.

Andy

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On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 12:27:21 -0500, Andy > wrote:

>Becca said...
>
>>
>> They call that "single-stream" recycling. At the recycling plant, the
>> material goes through giant tumblers that include magnets and fans.
>> This is much easier for homeowners than using multiple bins.
>>

>
>Right! Sorting is a thing of the past.
>

Would somebody please call San Francisco and tell them to get with the
times? We have 4 frikkin cans to deal with.


--
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Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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sf said...

> On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 12:27:21 -0500, Andy > wrote:
>
>>Becca said...
>>
>>>
>>> They call that "single-stream" recycling. At the recycling plant, the
>>> material goes through giant tumblers that include magnets and fans.
>>> This is much easier for homeowners than using multiple bins.
>>>

>>
>>Right! Sorting is a thing of the past.
>>

> Would somebody please call San Francisco and tell them to get with the
> times? We have 4 frikkin cans to deal with.



sf,

That's what ya get for living in the most expensive city in America! Bitch
to your senator Diane Feinstein!!!!!!!

Andy

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On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:24:10 -0500, Andy > wrote:

>sf,
>
>That's what ya get for living in the most expensive city in America! Bitch
>to your senator Diane Feinstein!!!!!!!
>

Not sure what she has to do with it. I like Pelosi too.


--
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Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 12:27:21 -0500, Andy > wrote:
>
>>Becca said...
>>
>>>
>>> They call that "single-stream" recycling. At the recycling plant, the
>>> material goes through giant tumblers that include magnets and fans.
>>> This is much easier for homeowners than using multiple bins.
>>>

>>
>>Right! Sorting is a thing of the past.
>>

> Would somebody please call San Francisco and tell them to get with the
> times? We have 4 frikkin cans to deal with.
>

I thought you people loved fussing with that kind of thing.


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