http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574...-29277,00.html


"The results suggest that vegetarian diets, particularly vegan diets, are
associated with lower bone mineral density," Mr Nguyen wrote in the study,
published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

"As viscous as motor oil swirled in a swamp, redolent of burnt bell peppers
nested in by incontinent mice and a finish reminiscent of the dregs of a
stale can of Coca-Cola that someone has been using as an ashtray. Not a bad
drink, though."
Excerpt from "The Moose Turd Wine Tasting" by T. A. Nonymous

"PeterL" > wrote in message 5...
| http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574...-29277,00.html
|
|
| "The results suggest that vegetarian diets, particularly vegan diets, are
| associated with lower bone mineral density," Mr Nguyen wrote in the study,
| published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

"But the magnitude of the association is clinically insignificant," he added.

pavane

PeterL wrote on Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:16:41 +0000 (UTC):

> "The results suggest that vegetarian diets, particularly vegan
> diets, are associated with lower bone mineral density," Mr
> Nguyen wrote in the study, published in the American Journal
> of Clinical Nutrition.

Go the blackboard and write 1000 times "Correllation is not causality"!
Or else, give the correllation coefficient and number of measurements so
that others can judge for themselves.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"James Silverton" > wrote in news:WJ33m.2049
:

> PeterL wrote on Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:16:41 +0000 (UTC):
>
>> "The results suggest that vegetarian diets, particularly vegan
>> diets, are associated with lower bone mineral density," Mr
>> Nguyen wrote in the study, published in the American Journal
>> of Clinical Nutrition.
>
> Go the blackboard and write 1000 times "Correllation is not causality"!
> Or else, give the correllation coefficient and number of measurements so
> that others can judge for themselves.
>



Ummmmmmmmmm, go tell that to either news.com.au, or Mr Tuan Nguyen, who is
from Sydney's Garvan Institute for Medical Research and collaborated on
the project with the Pham Ngoc Thach University of Medicine in Ho Chi
Minh City.


Can't you just be *told*....... like all the other 'studies' that have
been done to 'prove' that things are bad you us??


(BTW, did you even *read* the whole article?? Or just the part that was
copied above??)


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

"As viscous as motor oil swirled in a swamp, redolent of burnt bell
peppers nested in by incontinent mice and a finish reminiscent of the
dregs of a stale can of Coca-Cola that someone has been using as an
ashtray. Not a bad drink, though."
Excerpt from "The Moose Turd Wine Tasting" by T. A. Nonymous

PeterL wrote on Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:52:17 +0000 (UTC):

>> PeterL wrote on Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:16:41 +0000 (UTC):
>>
>>> "The results suggest that vegetarian diets, particularly
>>> vegan diets, are associated with lower bone mineral
>>> density," Mr Nguyen wrote in the study, published in the
>>> American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.
>>
>> Go the blackboard and write 1000 times "Correllation is not
>> causality"! Or else, give the correllation coefficient and
>> number of measurements so that others can judge for
>> themselves.
>>
> Ummmmmmmmmm, go tell that to either news.com.au, or Mr Tuan
> Nguyen, who is from Sydney's Garvan Institute for Medical
> Research and collaborated on the project with the Pham Ngoc
> Thach University of Medicine in Ho Chi Minh City.

> Can't you just be *told*....... like all the other 'studies'
> that have been done to 'prove' that things are bad you us??

> (BTW, did you even *read* the whole article?? Or just the part
> that was copied above??)

Another case for the blackboard: "Physicians are often lousy
statisticians!"


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Jul 2, 10:59*am, "James Silverton" >
wrote:
> *PeterL *wrote *on Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:52:17 +0000 (UTC):
>
>
>
> >> *PeterL *wrote *on Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:16:41 +0000 (UTC):
>
> >>> "The results suggest that vegetarian diets, particularly
> >>> vegan diets, are associated with lower bone mineral
> >>> density," Mr Nguyen wrote in the study, published in the
> >>> American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.
>
> >> Go the blackboard and write 1000 times "Correllation is not
> >> causality"! Or else, give the correllation coefficient and
> >> number of measurements so that others can judge for
> >> themselves.
>
> > Ummmmmmmmmm, go tell that to either news.com.au, or Mr Tuan
> > Nguyen, who is from Sydney's Garvan Institute *for Medical
> > Research *and collaborated on the project with the Pham Ngoc
> > Thach University *of Medicine in Ho Chi Minh City.
> > Can't you just be *told*....... like all the other 'studies'
> > that have been done to 'prove' that things are bad you us??
> > (BTW, did you even *read* the whole article?? Or just the part
> > that was copied above??)
>
> Another case for the blackboard: "Physicians are often lousy
> statisticians!"
>
> --
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

And note the word 'suggest'. Hell, that can get any conclusion off
the hook. Just one more study to confuse the public.

Gee, a glass of milk sounds good right now. Thanks for the reminder,
even if wasn't anyone's intent.

"PeterL" > wrote in message
5...
> http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574...-29277,00.html
>
>
> "The results suggest that vegetarian diets, particularly vegan diets, are
> associated with lower bone mineral density," Mr Nguyen wrote in the study,
> published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.


Yep. They really screw themselves up. I knew this one bat shit crazy vegan
who had bones like a bird. She was so delicate a stiff wind could snap a
leg. And she thought she was so healthy even though her diet lacked every
amino acid the body needs to assimilate calcium. She refused all calcium
supplements because they were not vegan as they were made from oyster
shells. Silly because calcium is calcium and has passed through many
sources over its billions years life span. She's going to be one seriously
handicapped person in her 50s with serious bone loss issues.

Vegetarian is actually quite easy and does not require a PhD in nutrition to
get right. Vegans are just insane idiots.

Paul

PeterL wrote:
> "James Silverton" > wrote in news:WJ33m.2049
> :
>
>> PeterL wrote on Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:16:41 +0000 (UTC):
>>
>>> "The results suggest that vegetarian diets, particularly vegan
>>> diets, are associated with lower bone mineral density," Mr
>>> Nguyen wrote in the study, published in the American Journal
>>> of Clinical Nutrition.
>> Go the blackboard and write 1000 times "Correllation is not causality"!
>> Or else, give the correllation coefficient and number of measurements so
>> that others can judge for themselves.
>>
>
>
>
> Ummmmmmmmmm, go tell that to either news.com.au, or Mr Tuan Nguyen, who is
> from Sydney's Garvan Institute for Medical Research and collaborated on
> the project with the Pham Ngoc Thach University of Medicine in Ho Chi
> Minh City.
>
>
> Can't you just be *told*....... like all the other 'studies' that have
> been done to 'prove' that things are bad you us??
>
>
> (BTW, did you even *read* the whole article?? Or just the part that was
> copied above??)
>
>

Sigh .

Did you ? If so you probably should not have written the subject line
in such a conclusive manner . No where is there a conclusion that
such a diet is *no good for your bones*

In fact the article actually states

There was "practically no difference" between the bones of meat-eaters
and ovolactovegetarians, who excluded meat and seafood but ate eggs and
dairy products, he said.


What you have achieved even in the unlikely event you did not mean to
is attract attention to another of your posts that may impress you
but is highly inaccurate and short on substance .


The article you quoted is also inaccurate . The Researcher is well
known and respected and is actually a Professor .

Here is the press release in full (which I read last night )

For those interested

Quote

Summarising a fractured debate about meat, fish, eggs, vegetables and bones

MEDIA RELEASE: 02 Jul 2009

Summarising a fractured debate about meat, fish, eggs, vegetables and bones

Until now, medical opinion about the impact of vegetarian diets on bone
health has been based on anecdotal evidence and a range of contradictory
findings that sometimes rely on studies too small to be biologically
relevant.

Researchers in Australia and Vietnam searched all peer-reviewed
literature on the subject, selecting nine studies for analysis. The nine
studies compared bone mineral density (BMD) of meat eaters and
vegetarians from around the world, including 2,749 men and women.

Their results showed that people on vegetarian diets have BMD roughly 5%
lower than non-vegetarians.

The study was led by Professor Tuan Nguyen from Sydney’s Garvan
Institute of Medical Research and Dr Ho-Pham Thuc Lan from the Pham Ngoc
Thach University of Medicine in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam. Their
findings are published online today in the American Journal of Clinical
Nutrition.

“There has been much debate surrounding this issue,” commented Nguyen.
“Discrepancies in findings, inadequate clinical samples and poor
comparative data have all contributed to the confusion.”

“Many studies tell us, for example, that countries with a high rate of
vegetable consumption have a low risk of hip fracture. This implies that
vegetable consumption is good for bone health.”

“Other studies have highlighted lower BMD measurements among vegetarians
and have come to the opposite conclusion.”

“The truth, of course, encompasses many dietary and lifestyle factors.
While BMD is important, it is not the only thing that contributes to
fracture risk.”

Given the rising number of vegetarians (roughly 5% in Western countries)
and the widespread incidence of osteoporosis (2 million people in
Australia alone), the issue is worth resolving.

The team adopted a rigorous approach. Of the 922 peer-reviewed journal
articles produced by their literature search, 9 met the criteria
considered suitable for analysis. Studies had to be original, undertaken
on people over 18, with vegetarian and non-vegetarian diets as factors
and BMD as outcome.

The term ‘vegetarian diet’ included 4 types of vegetarian diet:
semi-vegetarian (excluding meat); lactoovovegetarian (excluding meat and
seafood); lactovegetarian (excluding meat, seafood and eggs but not milk
and dairy products); and vegan (excluding all foods of animal origin).

Professor Nguyen and Dr. Thuc Lan believe the study has answered some
important questions. “The term ‘vegetarian’ is loosely used, so we felt
it was valuable to compare the impact of different vegetarian diets,”
said Nguyen.

“We found there was practically no difference between meat eaters and
ovolactovegetarians.”

“While there is a difference between meat eaters and vegans, that
difference is small.”

“We conclude that vegetarians as a group have lower BMD than meat eaters
as a group, but whether the difference translates into increased
fracture risk has yet to be resolved.”


ABOUT GARVAN
The Garvan Institute of Medical Research was founded in 1963. Initially
a research department of St Vincent's Hospital in Sydney, it is now one
of Australia's largest medical research institutions with nearly 500
scientists, students and support staff. Garvan's main research programs
a Cancer, Diabetes & Obesity, Immunology and Inflammation,
Osteoporosis and Bone Biology, and Neuroscience. The Garvan's mission is
to make significant contributions to medical science that will change
the directions of science and medicine and have major impacts on human
health. The outcome of Garvan's discoveries is the development of better
methods of diagnosis, treatment, and ultimately, prevention of disease.

"Paul M. Cook" > wrote in
:

>
> "PeterL" > wrote in message
> 5...
>> http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574...-29277,00.html
>>
>>
>> "The results suggest that vegetarian diets, particularly vegan diets,
>> are associated with lower bone mineral density," Mr Nguyen wrote in the
>> study, published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.
>
>
> Yep. They really screw themselves up. I knew this one bat shit crazy
> vegan who had bones like a bird. She was so delicate a stiff wind could
> snap a leg. And she thought she was so healthy even though her diet
> lacked every amino acid the body needs to assimilate calcium. She
> refused all calcium supplements because they were not vegan as they were
> made from oyster shells. Silly because calcium is calcium and has
> passed through many sources over its billions years life span. She's
> going to be one seriously handicapped person in her 50s with serious
> bone loss issues.
>
> Vegetarian is actually quite easy and does not require a PhD in
> nutrition to get right. Vegans are just insane idiots.
>



Yep, the study shows there is a difference, slight that it may be. But
when it comes to a difference in Bone Density, the difference is a cracker
:-)


I know a lot of vegetarians who are 'vegetarian' because it's a LAM-LAM
thing. (Look At Me-Look At Me) They think it's the hip/cool/in-thing to
do.

They pronounce their undying devotion to the 'cause' and try and convert
everyone around them, whilst wearing leather jackets, boots etc.

Then you have the 'mad-hatters'.... the vegans.

I knew one tosser who was in the same organisation I was, who created a
fuss every time we had a function. He had to personally approve any food
cooked for him and his wife (who had to become a vegan because *he* said
so!!)..... and he wouldn't even have ordinary salt on his food.......
"because it has bones in it"!!! He would then stand around extolling the
virtues of veganism, and berate everyone for their meat eating habits.

I organised a couple of the later functions, and just told him "You want
to attend, you bring your own food if you're not going to eat what the
rest of us are eating." He got the hint and stayed away, and finally left
the organisation.


I've shown before that vegetarians/vegans are nut-jobs.........


http://i42.tinypic.com/2zzmf5f.jpg

--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

If we aren't supposed to eat animals..... why are they made of meat??

"PeterL" > wrote in message . 25...

> I've shown before that vegetarians/vegans are nut-jobs.........

Wow, what an intellect, what a he-man. The world thanks you.
Our admiration knows no limits. Kissy kissy, Petey boy.

pavane

5% difference is really small, and almost statistically insignificant.
Also meat eaters tend to be heavier so naturally have denser bones.
How many overweight vegans do you know?

On Jul 2, 3:36*pm, "pavane" > wrote:
> "PeterL" > wrote in messagenews:Xns9C3D2D4F8EE0Peterhomeinbrissie@210. 8.230.25...
>
> |http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574...-29277,00.html
> |
> |
> | "The results suggest that vegetarian diets, particularly vegan diets, are
> | associated with lower bone mineral density," Mr Nguyen wrote in the study,
> | published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.
>
> "But the magnitude of the association is clinically insignificant," he added.
>
> pavane

Hi there!!
my name is cassandra;im a mom and new in the group
just want to say hi and wish you all well..
.....As a mom i love cooking and preparing food

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 07:24:47 -0700 (PDT), Cass Gomez
> wrote:

>On Jul 2, 3:36*pm, "pavane" > wrote:
>> "PeterL" > wrote in messagenews:Xns9C3D2D4F8EE0Peterhomeinbrissie@210. 8.230.25...
>>
>> |http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574...-29277,00.html
>> |
>> |
>> | "The results suggest that vegetarian diets, particularly vegan diets, are
>> | associated with lower bone mineral density," Mr Nguyen wrote in the study,
>> | published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.
>>
>> "But the magnitude of the association is clinically insignificant," he added.
>>
>> pavane
>
>Hi there!!
>my name is cassandra;im a mom and new in the group
>just want to say hi and wish you all well..
>....As a mom i love cooking and preparing food


This should be fun.

V

On Jul 2, 12:11*pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
> "PeterL" > wrote in message
>
> 5...
>
> >http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574...-29277,00.html
>
> > "The results suggest that vegetarian diets, particularly vegan diets, are
> > associated with lower bone mineral density," Mr Nguyen wrote in the study,
> > published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.
>
> Yep. *They really screw themselves up. *I knew this one bat shit crazy vegan
> who had bones like a bird. *She was so delicate a stiff wind could snap a
> leg. *And she thought she was so healthy even though her diet lacked every
> amino acid the body needs to assimilate calcium. *She refused all calcium
> supplements because they were not vegan as they were made from oyster
> shells. *Silly because calcium is calcium and has passed through many
> sources over its billions years life span. *She's going to be one seriously
> handicapped person in her 50s with serious bone loss issues.
>
> Vegetarian is actually quite easy and does not require a PhD in nutrition to
> get right. *Vegans are just insane idiots.
>
> Paul

Vegans can get the nutrients they need, but they do have to eat a wide
variety of foods that are not in the standard Caucasian diet. Heavy
doses of dark, green, leafy veggies will handle the calcium needs, as
will weight-bearing exercise like walking or housework. Proteins can
be completed with grains and various beans in combination over the
course of a week's intake.

I didn't read the article so the following is conjectu if the
people the researchers were counting were from areas where there are
food shortages, that would account for more of the problems than just
the vegan diet.

maxine in ri
not a vegan

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 03:05:00 +0000 (UTC), PeterL wrote:
>
> I've shown before that vegetarians/vegans are nut-jobs.........
>

....but not as many times as you've shown yourself to be a nut-job.

blake

On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 21:01:01 -0700 (PDT), "Mr. Nonsense"
> wrote:

>5% difference is really small, and almost statistically insignificant.
>Also meat eaters tend to be heavier so naturally have denser bones.
>How many overweight vegans do you know?

and meat eaters have better teeth, something to do with tearing flesh
from bones ;0)

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 07:24:47 -0700 (PDT), Cass Gomez
> wrote:


IP# 124.105.77.53

Registrant:
Philippine Long Distance Telephone Co.
14th Floor Ramon Cojuangco Building
Makati Avenue
Makati, Metro Manila 1200
PH

Domain Name: PLDT.NET

On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:08:35 GMT, blake murphy
> wrote:

>On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 03:05:00 +0000 (UTC), PeterL wrote:
>>
>> I've shown before that vegetarians/vegans are nut-jobs.........
>>
>
>...but not as many times as you've shown yourself to be a nut-job.
>
I went through my KF yesterday to figure out why it takes so long to
get the bodies of new headers. It turned out my KF was clogged with
PL, PL followers and PL pretenders that had no cut off date. I
actually had more for PL and his fans than I had for real *spam*!

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

sf > wrote in news:k4js459tlnqfbqqb05v77qn0seuig682s4@
4ax.com:

> On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:08:35 GMT, blake murphy
> > wrote:
>

>>...but not as many times as you've shown yourself to be a nut-job.
>>
> I went through my KF yesterday to figure out why it takes so long to
> get the bodies of new headers. It turned out my KF was clogged with
> PL, PL followers and PL pretenders that had no cut off date. I
> actually had more for PL and his fans than I had for real *spam*!
>



LOL!!! One lame cripple talking to another lame cripple!!



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

"As viscous as motor oil swirled in a swamp, redolent of burnt bell peppers
nested in by incontinent mice and a finish reminiscent of the dregs of a
stale can of Coca-Cola that someone has been using as an ashtray. Not a bad
drink, though."
Excerpt from "The Moose Turd Wine Tasting" by T. A. Nonymous

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 21:16:03 +0000 (UTC), PeterL wrote:

> sf > wrote in news:k4js459tlnqfbqqb05v77qn0seuig682s4@
> 4ax.com:
>
>> On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:08:35 GMT, blake murphy
>> > wrote:
>>
>
>>>...but not as many times as you've shown yourself to be a nut-job.
>>>
>> I went through my KF yesterday to figure out why it takes so long to
>> get the bodies of new headers. It turned out my KF was clogged with
>> PL, PL followers and PL pretenders that had no cut off date. I
>> actually had more for PL and his fans than I had for real *spam*!
>>
>
> LOL!!! One lame cripple talking to another lame cripple!!his

i don't need my feet to kick your as in this venue.

blake