I have to agree with the writer's demographic observations: <40
think bribing for a better table is wrong and >40 consider it
part of doing business.

http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000...?currentPage=1

I won't bribe to get seated but will calmly ask for a different
table if I find I don't like where we're headed. My moral code
just doesn't allow me to "grease" the wheel.

My gahdmother's 80-yo boyfriend doesn't think twice about
calmly palming a bill to the maître d'. He's so smooth that if
you didn't know what was going on, you'd miss it completely.
He's very subtle (and artist) and has never been turned away
from any restaurant.

Would you bribe your way in to a high-caliber restaurant?

The Ranger

On Jul 20, 9:32*am, "The Ranger" > wrote:
> I have to agree with the writer's demographic observations: <40
> think bribing for a better table is wrong and >40 consider it
> part of doing business.
>
> http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000...?currentPage=1
>
Nice article, calm, not overstated, clear reporting without a lot of
pseudo psychology. If I were doing a survey I would also ask if
people's attitudes varied when it was a business dinner versus a
personal occasion.

> I won't bribe to get seated but will calmly ask for a different
> table if I find I don't like where we're headed. My moral code
> just doesn't allow me to "grease" the wheel.

Do you really mean 'moral code'? I don't see considerations of right
and wrong entering at all. Certainly attitudes/inclinations/desires
vary a lot, but morals?

> Would you bribe your way in to a high-caliber restaurant?

I have done, but of course I'd rather plan ahead and have a legit
reservation. -aem

"The Ranger" > wrote in message
>
> Would you bribe your way in to a high-caliber restaurant?
>
> The Ranger

No, if they don't want me "as is" I don't want to patronize them either. If
I'm seated and treated well, I'll tip well.

Only time I "grease" the wheels is at the airport curbside check in to get
ahead of 300 other people.

On Jul 20, 9:32*am, "The Ranger" > wrote:
> I have to agree with the writer's demographic observations: <40
> think bribing for a better table is wrong and >40 consider it
> part of doing business.
>
> http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000...?currentPage=1
>
> I won't bribe to get seated but will calmly ask for a different
> table if I find I don't like where we're headed. My moral code
> just doesn't allow me to "grease" the wheel.
>
> My gahdmother's 80-yo boyfriend doesn't think twice about
> calmly palming a bill to the maître d'. He's so smooth that if
> you didn't know what was going on, you'd miss it completely.
> He's very subtle (and artist) and has never been turned away
> from any restaurant.
>
> Would you bribe your way in to a high-caliber restaurant?

Interesting article! It would be interesting to know if this happens
in a man's world only.

Karen

On Jul 20, 12:32�pm, "The Ranger" > wrote:
> I have to agree with the writer's demographic observations: <40
> think bribing for a better table is wrong and >40 consider it
> part of doing business.
>
> http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000...?currentPage=1
>
> I won't bribe to get seated but will calmly ask for a different
> table if I find I don't like where we're headed. My moral code
> just doesn't allow me to "grease" the wheel.
>
> My gahdmother's 80-yo boyfriend doesn't think twice about
> calmly palming a bill to the ma�tre d'. He's so smooth that if
> you didn't know what was going on, you'd miss it completely.
> He's very subtle (and artist) and has never been turned away
> from any restaurant.
>
> Would you bribe your way in to a high-caliber restaurant?


I wouldn't place myself in that position but if someone arrives
without previously making reservations and they really want to be
seated like now, then they pretty much have to find a greedy palm, and
if they want a choice location then the greed level goes up
comisserately... essentially it's line jumping and for sucessful line
jumping one needs to be prepasred to pay a rather stiff fee. The line
jumper is the real criminal, not the ma�tre d'.

I make reservations for eateries I frequently patronize, and when I do
I ask for a particular favorite table. On Long Island I very often
ate at the Harbor View, I dined there frequently enough that as soon
as they heard my name on the phone they knew that I wanted to be
seated at an ocean view window in the room with the live Oldies band.
They didn't have a ma�tre d', they had a hostess... when I arrived I
always slipped her a twenty, that ensured I'd get seated at the table
I wanted the next time too.... the trick to tipping is to tip
generously enough so they remember you. I typically arrived about 45
minutes early, on purpose, so I'd have time to sit at the bar until
the hostess came to bring me to my table... at that point I tipped the
bartender for the evening. Wouldn't be ten minutes and the bar maid
would arrive with a comped drink, I tipped her at that point too...
tipping generously and in advance ensured I'd receive exceptional
service and I ate and I drank generously... there I'd tip the
waitperson after the meal but before the check arrived.. I don't limit
my tipping to a particular percentage, I tip generously. Had I wanted
to dine on the cheap I'd have stayed home. I didn't dine out all that
often at as you say, "high-caliber" restaurants, once or twice a month
at most. But when I did I wnasted to enjoy teh experience adn for
that one has to pay a premium... kind of like how some are willing to
pay for premium seats at a sporting event or the theater. When I hear
what some pay to watch grown men carousing like juveniles, tossing a
ball around, first thing comes to mind is those low class louts need
to grow up and get a life.... why is it not bribery for them to pay
$200 to sit on a small wooden seat in a crowded noisy smelly place and
go hungry unless they're willing pay $5 for one stinkin' weiner,
served by some nose picking derelict who hadn't bathed in a week.

The Ranger wrote:
> I have to agree with the writer's demographic observations: <40
> think bribing for a better table is wrong and >40 consider it
> part of doing business.

I'm 41, and I don't think it's wrong, just tacky.

Serene

--
"I think I have an umami receptor that has developed sentience." -- Stef

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
kind of like how some are willing to
pay for premium seats at a sporting event or the theater. When I hear
what some pay to watch grown men carousing like juveniles, tossing a
ball around, first thing comes to mind is those low class louts need
to grow up and get a life.... why is it not bribery for them to pay
$200 to sit on a small wooden seat in a crowded noisy smelly place and
go hungry unless they're willing pay $5 for one stinkin' weiner,
served by some nose picking derelict who hadn't bathed in a week.

***********************************************

You bring up a good point. I know people that pay a fortune for a seat at a
ball game, eat the $5 wiener washed down with a $10 beer, but will tip a
quarter for a cup of coffee and still begrudge the waitress.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

>
> You bring up a good point. I know people that pay a fortune for a seat at
> a ball game, eat the $5 wiener washed down with a $10 beer, but will tip a
> quarter for a cup of coffee and still begrudge the waitress.

OMG. Here we go again. Ed mentioned the word 'tip"...
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

Egg tastes better when it's not on your face...

Karen > wrote:

> Interesting article! It would be interesting to know if this happens
> in a man's world only.

Money is money. Ask any prostitute.

-sw

"Serene Vannoy" > wrote in message
...
> The Ranger wrote:
>> I have to agree with the writer's demographic observations: <40 think
>> bribing for a better table is wrong and >40 consider it part of doing
>> business.
>
> I'm 41, and I don't think it's wrong, just tacky.
>
You mean, bad form! I agree!

> The Ranger wrote:
> I have to agree with the writer's demographic observations: <40 think
> bribing for a better table is wrong and >40 consider it part of doing
> business.

>


It does fly in the face of the "egalitarianism" we profess in the U.S.

For years DH and I have said "There's WAY too much money floating around
out there..." (followed by "and too little of it floating our way.")

We've experienced some wonderful meals in both expensive and lesser
restaurants, but most of the quality was unrelated to a restaurant's
"celebrity" status. Its importance to networking, sure; food, not so much.

gloria p

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
> "Sheldon" wrote"
>
> �kind of like how some are willing to
> pay for premium seats at a sporting event or the theater. �When I hear
> what some pay to watch grown men carousing like juveniles, tossing a
> ball around, first thing comes to mind is those low class louts need
> to grow up and get a life.... why is it not bribery for them to pay
> $200 to sit on a small wooden seat in a crowded noisy smelly place and
> go hungry unless they're willing pay $5 for one stinkin' weiner,
> served by some nose picking derelict who hadn't bathed in a week.
>
> ***********************************************
>
> You bring up a good point. I know people that pay a fortune for a seat at a
> ball game, eat the $5 wiener washed down with a $10 beer, but will tip a
> quarter for a cup of coffee and still begrudge the waitress.

All about priorities... most women who go to the beauty salon spend
all day there and come home looking no different and maybe worse, but
their purse is more than $100 lighter... and many do this every week
like it's a religious experience on the mount (Mount Clairol).. and
for this failed reconstruction they tip more than they drop in the
basket at sunday mass. Then after this beautification project they
equate to urban gentrification they strut their USS Cellulite tugboat
width butt around the mall in their brand spanky new walmart sweats
with gittery Elvis decal thinking they look sweet sixteen and
celebrate by dining at IHOP and begrudge the tip... why, because baldy
paunchy hubby has been ogling the 23 yer old 110 pound 5' 7" waitress
with her ass tight as a snare drum and C cups that don't really need a
bra who has never seen the inside of a beauty salon... hubby put down
five crumpled singles for the two tuna melts and diet cokes but soon
as he turned his back Mrs $35 waxed eyebrows glommed four of those
singles.

On Jul 20, 4:13�pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
> "Sheldon" > wrote in message
>
> �kind of like how some are willing to
> pay for premium seats at a sporting event or the theater. �When I hear
> what some pay to watch grown men carousing like juveniles, tossing a
> ball around, first thing comes to mind is those low class louts need
> to grow up and get a life.... why is it not bribery for them to pay
> $200 to sit on a small wooden seat in a crowded noisy smelly place and
> go hungry unless they're willing pay $5 for one stinkin' weiner,
> served by some nose picking derelict who hadn't bathed in a week.
>
> ***********************************************
>
> You bring up a good point. I know people that pay a fortune for a seat at a
> ball game, eat the $5 wiener washed down with a $10 beer, but will tip a
> quarter for a cup of coffee and still begrudge the waitress.

I won't tip that tube steak vender but I don't mind paying for a good
meal and tipping for good service at a classy restaurant. The last
time I paid for a ticket to a sporting event I paid 75 cents and ten
Elsie wrappers to sit in the bleachers at Ebbets field to watch the
Brooklyn Dodgers.

Sheldon wrote:

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
> "Sheldon" wrote"
>
> ?kind of like how some are willing to
> pay for premium seats at a sporting event or the theater. ?When I hear
> what some pay to watch grown men carousing like juveniles, tossing a
> ball around, first thing comes to mind is those low class louts need
> to grow up and get a life.... why is it not bribery for them to pay
> $200 to sit on a small wooden seat in a crowded noisy smelly place and
> go hungry unless they're willing pay $5 for one stinkin' weiner,
> served by some nose picking derelict who hadn't bathed in a week.
>
> ***********************************************
>
> You bring up a good point. I know people that pay a fortune for a seat at
a
> ball game, eat the $5 wiener washed down with a $10 beer, but will tip a
> quarter for a cup of coffee and still begrudge the waitress.

All about priorities... most women who go to the beauty salon spend
all day there and come home looking no different and maybe worse, but
their purse is more than $100 lighter... and many do this every week
like it's a religious experience on the mount (Mount Clairol).. and
for this failed reconstruction they tip more than they drop in the
basket at sunday mass. Then after this beautification project they
equate to urban gentrification they strut their USS Cellulite tugboat
width butt around the mall in their brand spanky new walmart sweats
with gittery Elvis decal thinking they look sweet sixteen and
celebrate by dining at IHOP and begrudge the tip... why, because baldy
paunchy hubby has been ogling the 23 yer old 110 pound 5' 7" waitress
with her ass tight as a snare drum and C cups that don't really need a
bra who has never seen the inside of a beauty salon... hubby put down
five crumpled singles for the two tuna melts and diet cokes but soon
as he turned his back Mrs $35 waxed eyebrows glommed four of those
singles.
-------------------------

GM:

You mean to say that cyberwide-load's hubbie took her out for
dinner...!!!???


--
Best
Greg

"The Ranger" > wrote in message
ndwidth...
>I have to agree with the writer's demographic observations: <40 think
>bribing for a better table is wrong and >40 consider it part of doing
>business.
>
> http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000...?currentPage=1
>
> I won't bribe to get seated but will calmly ask for a different table if I
> find I don't like where we're headed. My moral code just doesn't allow me
> to "grease" the wheel.
>
> My gahdmother's 80-yo boyfriend doesn't think twice about calmly palming a
> bill to the maître d'. He's so smooth that if you didn't know what was
> going on, you'd miss it completely. He's very subtle (and artist) and has
> never been turned away from any restaurant.
>
> Would you bribe your way in to a high-caliber restaurant?
>
> The Ranger


I think that depends on the custom of the area and restaurant. As a general
rule no but Vegas or NYC are a different story.

In some cities money has less meaning and therefore I don't think you can
make a general rule.


--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:56:08 -0500, "Gregory Morrow"
> wrote:

>You mean to say that cyberwide-load's hubbie took her out for
>dinner...!!!???

Honey...does this dress make my butt too big?

Why no, darling.....all those damn Klondike bars made your ass look
big.

Dimitri > wrote in message
...
[snip]
> I think that depends on the custom of the area and
> restaurant. As a general rule no but Vegas or NYC
> are a different story.

So you don't think greasing the wheel at a few of the LA
hotspots would gain you any advantage?

The Ranger

Karen wrote:
>
> Interesting article! It would be interesting to know if this happens
> in a man's world only.


Phoebe Damrosch in _Service Included_ has a good chapter on being a
female waiter at Per Se, a top notch restaurant where it's usually men
who hold the job. She talks about the tips/bribe subject in particular.
It's more complicated than this, but the simple answer to your
question is yes. Men do the bribing, and men accept the bribes. She
talks about the exceptions. Her restaurant had a system of sharing the
bribes/tips with the rest of the staff.


--Lia

Julia Altshuler wrote:
> Karen wrote:
>
> > Interesting article! It would be interesting to know if this happens
> > in a man's world only.
>
> Phoebe Damrosch in _Service Included_ has a good chapter on being a
> female waiter at Per Se, a top notch restaurant where it's usually men
> who hold the job. �She talks about the tips/bribe subject in particular.
> � It's more complicated than this, but the simple answer to your
> question is yes. �Men do the bribing, and men accept the bribes. �She
> talks about the exceptions. �Her restaurant had a system of sharing the
> bribes/tips with the rest of the staff.


That's nonsense, you can't come to a conclusion based on one (1)
person's personal experience at one (1) eatery.

It's been my experience over many years at many, many restaurants that
most of the stasff staff is female, and most men tip more generously
than women, and all things being equal men tip females better than
they tip males. Yes, men do most of the tipping, and that's why most
restaurant service staff is female. And if I have to explain it to
you then you likely won't get it.

Sheldon > wrote:

> ... when I arrived I
> always slipped her a twenty, that ensured I'd get seated at the table
> I wanted the next time too.... the trick to tipping is to tip
> generously enough so they remember you. I typically arrived about 45
> minutes early, on purpose, so I'd have time to sit at the bar until
> the hostess came to bring me to my table... at that point I tipped the
> bartender for the evening. Wouldn't be ten minutes and the bar maid
> would arrive with a comped drink, I tipped her at that point too...
> tipping generously and in advance ensured I'd receive exceptional
> service and I ate and I drank generously... there I'd tip the
> waitperson after the meal but before the check arrived.. I don't limit
> my tipping to a particular percentage, I tip generously.

<laugh> In your dreams. You're the cheapest ******* on earth. You
don't even eat out because you *hate* to tip and you're afraid
they'll spit in your food.

Keep on dreaming if it somehow makes you saner.

-sw

On Jul 20, 6:04*pm, Sheldon > wrote:
> That's nonsense, you can't come to a conclusion based on one (1)
> person's personal experience at one (1) eatery.
>
> It's been my experience over many years at many, many restaurants that
> most of the stasff staff is female, and most men tip more generously
> than women, and all things being equal men tip females better than
> they tip males. *Yes, men do most of the tipping, and that's why most
> restaurant service staff is female. *And if I have to explain it to
> you then you likely won't get it.

Tipping doesn't seem to have gender definitions, but bribing is a
dance between the male customer and male maitre d.

Karen

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:15:20 -0700 (PDT), Karen >
wrote:

>Tipping doesn't seem to have gender definitions, but bribing is a
>dance between the male customer and male maitre d.

Tipping the maitre'd should be done on the way out the door after a
meal. The maitre'd will NEVER forget you and will be falling all
over your next entrance!!

On Jul 20, 12:32*pm, "The Ranger" > wrote:

> Would you bribe your way in to a high-caliber restaurant?

No. I probably wouldn't go to a high-caliber restaurant if it didn't
require a bribe, either. Just not my scene.

It's just food, for Pete's sake. (I know that's heresy here, but
whether
you pay $2 or $200, it all ends up the same.) Of course, a woman has
to have some standards, but I prefer a middle-of-the-road approach.
My idea of a special night out is dinner for two at an Asian fusion
place
in Ann Arbor. Since we don't drink... wine, it's usually about $70
for
both of us.

Cindy Hamilton

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:32:08 -0700, "The Ranger"
> wrote:

>I have to agree with the writer's demographic observations: <40
>think bribing for a better table is wrong and >40 consider it
>part of doing business.
>
>http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000...?currentPage=1
>
>I won't bribe to get seated but will calmly ask for a different
>table if I find I don't like where we're headed. My moral code
>just doesn't allow me to "grease" the wheel.
>
>My gahdmother's 80-yo boyfriend doesn't think twice about
>calmly palming a bill to the maître d'. He's so smooth that if
>you didn't know what was going on, you'd miss it completely.
>He's very subtle (and artist) and has never been turned away
>from any restaurant.
>
>Would you bribe your way in to a high-caliber restaurant?
>
>The Ranger
>

any place i had to 'bribe' my way into i couldn't afford anyway.

your pal,
blake
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"The Ranger" > wrote in message
...
> Dimitri > wrote in message
> ...
> [snip]
>> I think that depends on the custom of the area and
>> restaurant. As a general rule no but Vegas or NYC
>> are a different story.
>
> So you don't think greasing the wheel at a few of the LA hotspots would
> gain you any advantage?
>
> The Ranger

Since I am a native of LA & I think for the most part "LA Hotspots" are
bullshit and don't interest me in any way shape or form. No matter how much
you tip at SPAGO you'll never be one of their celebs.

For example, I had dinner one night in New York with Cary Grant, of course
we were at different tables.

Same with Gene Shallot we were at the Carnegie together at different tables.
He really enjoyed his matzo ball soup.

:-)


--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

"Karen" > wrote in message
...
On Jul 20, 6:04 pm, Sheldon > wrote:
> That's nonsense, you can't come to a conclusion based on one (1)
> person's personal experience at one (1) eatery.
>
> It's been my experience over many years at many, many restaurants that
> most of the stasff staff is female, and most men tip more generously
> than women, and all things being equal men tip females better than
> they tip males. Yes, men do most of the tipping, and that's why most
> restaurant service staff is female. And if I have to explain it to
> you then you likely won't get it.

Tipping doesn't seem to have gender definitions, but bribing is a
dance between the male customer and male maitre d.

Karen

A little sexist don't you think?


--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 08:55:01 -0700, "Dimitri" >
wrote:

>
>"The Ranger" > wrote in message
...
>> Dimitri > wrote in message
>> ...
>> [snip]
>>> I think that depends on the custom of the area and
>>> restaurant. As a general rule no but Vegas or NYC
>>> are a different story.
>>
>> So you don't think greasing the wheel at a few of the LA hotspots would
>> gain you any advantage?
>>
>> The Ranger
>
>Since I am a native of LA & I think for the most part "LA Hotspots" are
>bullshit and don't interest me in any way shape or form. No matter how much
>you tip at SPAGO you'll never be one of their celebs.
>
>For example, I had dinner one night in New York with Cary Grant, of course
>we were at different tables.
>
>Same with Gene Shallot we were at the Carnegie together at different tables.
>He really enjoyed his matzo ball soup.
>
What tickles me about restaurants serving celebrities is the way the
waiter recites the menu to them, "we have a special <insert> tonight"
as if they're the only one privileged enough to hear about it.



--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:04:50 -0700, "Dimitri" >
wrote:

>
>"Karen" > wrote in message
>
>Tipping doesn't seem to have gender definitions, but bribing is a
>dance between the male customer and male maitre d.
>
>Karen
>
>A little sexist don't you think?

What's up with your news reader? It's not quoting properly!


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

"sf" wrote in message ...
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 08:55:01 -0700, "Dimitri" >
> wrote:

<snip>


>>Since I am a native of LA & I think for the most part "LA Hotspots" are
>>bullshit and don't interest me in any way shape or form. No matter how
>>much
>>you tip at SPAGO you'll never be one of their celebs.
>>
>>For example, I had dinner one night in New York with Cary Grant, of course
>>we were at different tables.
>>
>>Same with Gene Shallot we were at the Carnegie together at different
>>tables.
>>He really enjoyed his matzo ball soup.
>>
> What tickles me about restaurants serving celebrities is the way the
> waiter recites the menu to them, "we have a special <insert> tonight"
> as if they're the only one privileged enough to hear about it.
>
>
>
> --
> I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the
> number of carats in a diamond.
>
> Mae West

What was it Mo Green said to Michael Corleone in the Godfather when he
arrived in Vegas? "My chef will cook special for you"?


--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> "The Ranger" wrote:
>
> > Would you bribe your way in to a high-caliber restaurant?
>
> No. �I probably wouldn't go to a high-caliber restaurant if it didn't
> require a bribe, either. �Just not my scene.
>
> It's just food, for Pete's sake. �(I know that's heresy here, but
> whether
> you pay $2 or $200, it all ends up the same.) �Of course, a woman has
> to have some standards, but I prefer a middle-of-the-road approach.
> My idea of a special night out is dinner for two at an Asian fusion
> place
> in Ann Arbor. �Since we don't drink... wine, it's usually about $70
> for
> both of us.

Depends what's meant by "high-calber", the OP is mute on that point...
at $70 for essentially stir fry I'd call that high caliber prices..
and since you don't drink... booze, you can do just as well at less
than half that price at a neighborhood golden wok take out... hey, as
you say it all ends up the same. But that's not the point... you can
ride from point A to point B in a Toyota Corolla but it just ain't
nearly the same ride as in a Chrysler 300 SRT.

There are plenty of very popular eateries that don't cost very much at
all (The Ground Round on Lung Guyland - essentially a burger joint)
where folks line up 50 deep and wait two hours for a table, they don't
take reservations and you can't bribe your way in... they grind the
meat right out in the open, and they make the best onion rings served
mountain high, But I don't stand on line to eat anywhere, haven't
since boot camp... so I've only been a few times at off hours on week
days (when I didn't see many cars in the parking lot I might hang a
quick left), a really great burger with all the fixings and a beer
cost like $15 per... The Ground Round is a high-caliber burger joint.

But if I'm going to pay like $100-$150 a couple for a steak dinner at
a high caliber place (to me high caliber means proper attire too)
what's a ten spot to the hostess to ensure a better seating location
and to get seated ahead of two other couples who are too tight
fisted. When you tip the hostess word passes at the get-go to all the
other staff and you do indeed get better service, and better food and
drink. Everything in life has its price and not all things are
equal... there are steak dinners and there are Steak Dinners... there
are dentists and there are Dentists. You can call it chi-chi Asian
fusion all you like, it's stir fry... I wouldn't spend $70 at any
restaurant for a small plate of sauted onions and broccoli with a few
tiny bits of mystery meat swimming in thickened bouillion cube
sauce... and all "fusion" means is that it's way over priced for
teensy portions of mediocre food served with a paper umbrella.

The only reason I go out to eat is for a pleasant change of decor and
attentive service... if I'm not willing to open my wallet for service
then I can eat just as well if not better at home... in fact I know I
can always eat better at home but I'll have to do all the labor. I
don't know why so many folks think labor should be free.. when you tip
the hostess you are making a tacit contract for their attentitiveness
to their ensuring your experience is more pleasurable... how is that
service not labor, labor that requires renumeration... when the
hostess comes to my table a couple three times during dinner to ask if
everything is okay that alone is what ensures everything will be okay,
the other staff aren't blind.

The exhorbitant prices on the menu is for food only, really not a whit
of difference from the exhorbitant prices on a vending machine, always
remember that when you go to any restaurant you are not owed any
consideration other than having food placed in front of you. Anyone
unwilling to tip really should eat home... if unwilling to cook or
unable there are literally hundreds of take outs, many will even
deliver... but then you had better tip, or never order from them
again. And usually those delivery emplyees in the neighborhood know
each other and talk to each other, and in turn talk to the cooks as
well... don't stiff them.

> "Karen" wrote
> > Sheldon wrote:
>
> > That's nonsense, you can't come to a conclusion based on one (1)
> > person's personal experience at one (1) eatery.
>
> > It's been my experience over many years at many, many restaurants that
> > most of the staff staff is female, and most men tip more generously
> > than women, and all things being equal men tip females better than
> > they tip males. Yes, men do most of the tipping, and that's why most
> > restaurant service staff is female. And if I have to explain it to
> > you then you likely won't get it.
>
> Tipping doesn't seem to have gender definitions, but bribing is a
> dance between the male customer and male maitre d.
>
> Karen

Only if ***.

In the US a maitre d is rare, a hostess is typical.

I just knew there'd be someone who never learned about the birds and
bees. *Everything* is sex... this is an indisputable fact of life...
sex sells, always has since the Garden of Eden, always will. Most
women don't know how to tip, they don't want to know how to tip,
because society still views handling money as a male venue. Most
women view tipping as unfeminine, for that very reason many of those
females who do know how to tip purposely pretend ignorance.

Tipping is not a bribe, tipping is never a bribe... anyone who views
tipping as a bribe is an extortionist. Anyone who attmpts to bribe by
over tipping is a schmuck, a guinea wanna be maffioso, or both.
Tipping is payment for *more/better* service than what is contracted
for in the posted price. Tipping is extra pay for extra service.
People who take the extra service but don't pay are thieves. People
who think tipping is bribery are those who never learned to say
please, thank you, and excuse me... those who never learned to tip
never learned social graces... make no mistake about it, a host/ess
gift is a tip, you obviously don't... the obverse of tipping is
schnorring.

I refuse to socialize with wallet fumblers... when a date is set to go
out to dinner (or wherever) and on the way the other guy has to stop
at an ATM I quickly develop an illness because the fact that they
didn't have cash on them when they left home (and even if they did but
made a point of bringing up the money even before the evening began)
is their way of signaling that money is very important to them and to
such an extent that they are the kind of cheap ******* who carries
their cash in a money clip, a mess of singles wrapped in a twenty,
they're easy to spot, they typically wear a pinky ring... they're all
show and no go, they drive a leased car and need viagra. From
experience I know it's best to opt out quickly, I just know that they
are going to be a big embarrassment... anyone who makes a public
display about filling their wallet with cash is going to make a bigger
public display when it's time to withdraw cash from their wallet.
And I don't socialize with people who don't carry cash, and especially
not those who pinch pennies at tipping time. When it comes time to
pay the tab you want to pick up my cash and pay with your plastic I
will never accept another invite from you. And in fact you can't have
my cash (I ain't your friggin' ATM), you're on your own and it's
adios. Anyone draws plastic on me it had better be your corporate
card because you're treating... and it's adios anyway.

"Sheldon" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>> "Karen" wrote
>> > Sheldon wrote:
>>
>> > That's nonsense, you can't come to a conclusion based on one (1)
>> > person's personal experience at one (1) eatery.
>>
>> > It's been my experience over many years at many, many restaurants that
>> > most of the staff staff is female, and most men tip more generously
>> > than women, and all things being equal men tip females better than
>> > they tip males. Yes, men do most of the tipping, and that's why most
>> > restaurant service staff is female. And if I have to explain it to
>> > you then you likely won't get it.
>>
>> Tipping doesn't seem to have gender definitions, but bribing is a
>> dance between the male customer and male maitre d.
>>
>> Karen
>
> Only if ***.
>
> In the US a maitre d is rare, a hostess is typical.
>
> I just knew there'd be someone who never learned about the birds and
> bees. *Everything* is sex... this is an indisputable fact of life...
> sex sells, always has since the Garden of Eden, always will. Most
> women don't know how to tip, they don't want to know how to tip,
> because society still views handling money as a male venue. Most
> women view tipping as unfeminine, for that very reason many of those
> females who do know how to tip purposely pretend ignorance.
>
> Tipping is not a bribe, tipping is never a bribe... anyone who views
> tipping as a bribe is an extortionist. Anyone who attmpts to bribe by
> over tipping is a schmuck, a guinea wanna be maffioso, or both.
> Tipping is payment for *more/better* service than what is contracted
> for in the posted price. Tipping is extra pay for extra service.
> People who take the extra service but don't pay are thieves. People
> who think tipping is bribery are those who never learned to say
> please, thank you, and excuse me... those who never learned to tip
> never learned social graces... make no mistake about it, a host/ess
> gift is a tip, you obviously don't... the obverse of tipping is
> schnorring.
>
> I refuse to socialize with wallet fumblers... when a date is set to go
> out to dinner (or wherever) and on the way the other guy has to stop
> at an ATM I quickly develop an illness because the fact that they
> didn't have cash on them when they left home (and even if they did but
> made a point of bringing up the money even before the evening began)
> is their way of signaling that money is very important to them and to
> such an extent that they are the kind of cheap ******* who carries
> their cash in a money clip, a mess of singles wrapped in a twenty,
> they're easy to spot, they typically wear a pinky ring... they're all
> show and no go, they drive a leased car and need viagra. From
> experience I know it's best to opt out quickly, I just know that they
> are going to be a big embarrassment... anyone who makes a public
> display about filling their wallet with cash is going to make a bigger
> public display when it's time to withdraw cash from their wallet.
> And I don't socialize with people who don't carry cash, and especially
> not those who pinch pennies at tipping time. When it comes time to
> pay the tab you want to pick up my cash and pay with your plastic I
> will never accept another invite from you. And in fact you can't have
> my cash (I ain't your friggin' ATM), you're on your own and it's
> adios. Anyone draws plastic on me it had better be your corporate
> card because you're treating... and it's adios anyway.
>
>
Honestly, you have the most bizarre life and the most bizarre take on life I
have ever heard in the English language. You also do not understand half of
what you say yourself.

Anybody who uses an ATM has a pinky ring and is a mafioso-- uh, I am backing
away from that one because the stench could knock you over.

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
...
Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> "The Ranger" wrote:
>
> > Would you bribe your way in to a high-caliber restaurant?
>
> No. ?I probably wouldn't go to a high-caliber restaurant if it didn't
> require a bribe, either. ?Just not my scene.
>
> It's just food, for Pete's sake. ?(I know that's heresy here, but
> whether
> you pay $2 or $200, it all ends up the same.) ?Of course, a woman has
> to have some standards, but I prefer a middle-of-the-road approach.
> My idea of a special night out is dinner for two at an Asian fusion
> place
> in Ann Arbor. ?Since we don't drink... wine, it's usually about $70
> for
> both of us.

Depends what's meant by "high-calber", the OP is mute on that point...
at $70 for essentially stir fry I'd call that high caliber prices..
and since you don't drink... booze, you can do just as well at less
than half that price at a neighborhood golden wok take out... hey, as
you say it all ends up the same. But that's not the point... you can
ride from point A to point B in a Toyota Corolla but it just ain't
nearly the same ride as in a Chrysler 300 SRT.

There are plenty of very popular eateries that don't cost very much at
all (The Ground Round on Lung Guyland - essentially a burger joint)
where folks line up 50 deep and wait two hours for a table, they don't
take reservations and you can't bribe your way in... they grind the
meat right out in the open, and they make the best onion rings served
mountain high, But I don't stand on line to eat anywhere, haven't
since boot camp... so I've only been a few times at off hours on week
days (when I didn't see many cars in the parking lot I might hang a
quick left), a really great burger with all the fixings and a beer
cost like $15 per... The Ground Round is a high-caliber burger joint.

The Ground Round is a dying joint on LI. It is slowly being replaced with
Ruby Tuesdays, TGI Fridays, Macaroni Grill-which are essentially the same.
None of them are worth standing on line for more than 10 minutes.

But if I'm going to pay like $100-$150 a couple for a steak dinner at
a high caliber place (to me high caliber means proper attire too)
what's a ten spot to the hostess to ensure a better seating location
and to get seated ahead of two other couples who are too tight
fisted. When you tip the hostess word passes at the get-go to all the
other staff and you do indeed get better service, and better food and
drink. Everything in life has its price and not all things are
equal... there are steak dinners and there are Steak Dinners... there
are dentists and there are Dentists. You can call it chi-chi Asian
fusion all you like, it's stir fry... I wouldn't spend $70 at any
restaurant for a small plate of sauted onions and broccoli with a few
tiny bits of mystery meat swimming in thickened bouillion cube
sauce... and all "fusion" means is that it's way over priced for
teensy portions of mediocre food served with a paper umbrella.

The WORST place for an expensive steak is Ruth's Chris. The days of the ads
of 8" thick steaks like they advertise are long gone. Porterhouse for 2-inch
and a half on a plate-$95+, a la carte. I'll make it at home for 1/10 the
price.

The only reason I go out to eat is for a pleasant change of decor and
attentive service... if I'm not willing to open my wallet for service
then I can eat just as well if not better at home... in fact I know I
can always eat better at home but I'll have to do all the labor. I
don't know why so many folks think labor should be free.. when you tip
the hostess you are making a tacit contract for their attentitiveness
to their ensuring your experience is more pleasurable... how is that
service not labor, labor that requires renumeration... when the
hostess comes to my table a couple three times during dinner to ask if
everything is okay that alone is what ensures everything will be okay,
the other staff aren't blind.

The exhorbitant prices on the menu is for food only, really not a whit
of difference from the exhorbitant prices on a vending machine, always
remember that when you go to any restaurant you are not owed any
consideration other than having food placed in front of you. Anyone
unwilling to tip really should eat home... if unwilling to cook or
unable there are literally hundreds of take outs, many will even
deliver... but then you had better tip, or never order from them
again. And usually those delivery emplyees in the neighborhood know
each other and talk to each other, and in turn talk to the cooks as
well... don't stiff them.

Kswck wrote:

> Depends what's meant by "high-calber", the OP is mute on that point...
> at $70 for essentially stir fry I'd call that high caliber prices..
> and since you don't drink... booze, you can do just as well at less
> than half that price at a neighborhood golden wok take out... hey, as
> you say it all ends up the same. But that's not the point... you can
> ride from point A to point B in a Toyota Corolla but it just ain't
> nearly the same ride as in a Chrysler 300 SRT.
>
> There are plenty of very popular eateries that don't cost very much at
> all (The Ground Round on Lung Guyland - essentially a burger joint)
> where folks line up 50 deep and wait two hours for a table, they don't
> take reservations and you can't bribe your way in... they grind the
> meat right out in the open, and they make the best onion rings served
> mountain high, But I don't stand on line to eat anywhere, haven't
> since boot camp... so I've only been a few times at off hours on week
> days (when I didn't see many cars in the parking lot I might hang a
> quick left), a really great burger with all the fixings and a beer
> cost like $15 per... The Ground Round is a high-caliber burger joint.
>
> The Ground Round is a dying joint on LI. It is slowly being replaced with
> Ruby Tuesdays, TGI Fridays, Macaroni Grill-which are essentially the same.
> None of them are worth standing on line for more than 10 minutes.
>
> But if I'm going to pay like $100-$150 a couple for a steak dinner at
> a high caliber place (to me high caliber means proper attire too)
> what's a ten spot to the hostess to ensure a better seating location
> and to get seated ahead of two other couples who are too tight
> fisted. When you tip the hostess word passes at the get-go to all the
> other staff and you do indeed get better service, and better food and
> drink. Everything in life has its price and not all things are
> equal... there are steak dinners and there are Steak Dinners... there
> are dentists and there are Dentists. You can call it chi-chi Asian
> fusion all you like, it's stir fry... I wouldn't spend $70 at any
> restaurant for a small plate of sauted onions and broccoli with a few
> tiny bits of mystery meat swimming in thickened bouillion cube
> sauce... and all "fusion" means is that it's way over priced for
> teensy portions of mediocre food served with a paper umbrella.
>
> The WORST place for an expensive steak is Ruth's Chris. The days of the ads
> of 8" thick steaks like they advertise are long gone. Porterhouse for 2-inch
> and a half on a plate-$95+, a la carte. I'll make it at home for 1/10 the
> price.
>
> The only reason I go out to eat is for a pleasant change of decor and
> attentive service... if I'm not willing to open my wallet for service
> then I can eat just as well if not better at home... in fact I know I
> can always eat better at home but I'll have to do all the labor. I
> don't know why so many folks think labor should be free.. when you tip
> the hostess you are making a tacit contract for their attentitiveness
> to their ensuring your experience is more pleasurable... how is that
> service not labor, labor that requires renumeration... when the
> hostess comes to my table a couple three times during dinner to ask if
> everything is okay that alone is what ensures everything will be okay,
> the other staff aren't blind.
>
> The exhorbitant prices on the menu is for food only, really not a whit
> of difference from the exhorbitant prices on a vending machine, always
> remember that when you go to any restaurant you are not owed any
> consideration other than having food placed in front of you. Anyone
> unwilling to tip really should eat home... if unwilling to cook or
> unable there are literally hundreds of take outs, many will even
> deliver... but then you had better tip, or never order from them
> again. And usually those delivery emplyees in the neighborhood know
> each other and talk to each other, and in turn talk to the cooks as
> well... don't stiff them.
>
>
You need to help readers here identify what you've actually written
yourself versus the quotes of others posted before your response.

"Goomba" > wrote in message
...
> Kswck wrote:
>
>> Depends what's meant by "high-calber", the OP is mute on that point...
>> at $70 for essentially stir fry I'd call that high caliber prices..
>> and since you don't drink... booze, you can do just as well at less
>> than half that price at a neighborhood golden wok take out... hey, as
>> you say it all ends up the same. But that's not the point... you can
>> ride from point A to point B in a Toyota Corolla but it just ain't
>> nearly the same ride as in a Chrysler 300 SRT.
>>
>> There are plenty of very popular eateries that don't cost very much at
>> all (The Ground Round on Lung Guyland - essentially a burger joint)
>> where folks line up 50 deep and wait two hours for a table, they don't
>> take reservations and you can't bribe your way in... they grind the
>> meat right out in the open, and they make the best onion rings served
>> mountain high, But I don't stand on line to eat anywhere, haven't
>> since boot camp... so I've only been a few times at off hours on week
>> days (when I didn't see many cars in the parking lot I might hang a
>> quick left), a really great burger with all the fixings and a beer
>> cost like $15 per... The Ground Round is a high-caliber burger joint.
>>
>> The Ground Round is a dying joint on LI. It is slowly being replaced with
>> Ruby Tuesdays, TGI Fridays, Macaroni Grill-which are essentially the
>> same.
>> None of them are worth standing on line for more than 10 minutes.
>>
>> But if I'm going to pay like $100-$150 a couple for a steak dinner at
>> a high caliber place (to me high caliber means proper attire too)
>> what's a ten spot to the hostess to ensure a better seating location
>> and to get seated ahead of two other couples who are too tight
>> fisted. When you tip the hostess word passes at the get-go to all the
>> other staff and you do indeed get better service, and better food and
>> drink. Everything in life has its price and not all things are
>> equal... there are steak dinners and there are Steak Dinners... there
>> are dentists and there are Dentists. You can call it chi-chi Asian
>> fusion all you like, it's stir fry... I wouldn't spend $70 at any
>> restaurant for a small plate of sauted onions and broccoli with a few
>> tiny bits of mystery meat swimming in thickened bouillion cube
>> sauce... and all "fusion" means is that it's way over priced for
>> teensy portions of mediocre food served with a paper umbrella.
>>
>> The WORST place for an expensive steak is Ruth's Chris. The days of the
>> ads of 8" thick steaks like they advertise are long gone. Porterhouse for
>> 2-inch and a half on a plate-$95+, a la carte. I'll make it at home for
>> 1/10 the price.
>>
>> The only reason I go out to eat is for a pleasant change of decor and
>> attentive service... if I'm not willing to open my wallet for service
>> then I can eat just as well if not better at home... in fact I know I
>> can always eat better at home but I'll have to do all the labor. I
>> don't know why so many folks think labor should be free.. when you tip
>> the hostess you are making a tacit contract for their attentitiveness
>> to their ensuring your experience is more pleasurable... how is that
>> service not labor, labor that requires renumeration... when the
>> hostess comes to my table a couple three times during dinner to ask if
>> everything is okay that alone is what ensures everything will be okay,
>> the other staff aren't blind.
>>
>> The exhorbitant prices on the menu is for food only, really not a whit
>> of difference from the exhorbitant prices on a vending machine, always
>> remember that when you go to any restaurant you are not owed any
>> consideration other than having food placed in front of you. Anyone
>> unwilling to tip really should eat home... if unwilling to cook or
>> unable there are literally hundreds of take outs, many will even
>> deliver... but then you had better tip, or never order from them
>> again. And usually those delivery emplyees in the neighborhood know
>> each other and talk to each other, and in turn talk to the cooks as
>> well... don't stiff them.
>>
>>
> You need to help readers here identify what you've actually written
> yourself versus the quotes of others posted before your response.

I assume those others have been following the thread.

On Jul 21, 12:27Â*pm, Sheldon > wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > "The Ranger" wrote:
>
> > > Would you bribe your way in to a high-caliber restaurant?
>
> > No. �I probably wouldn't go to a high-caliber restaurant if it didn't
> > require a bribe, either. �Just not my scene.
>
> > It's just food, for Pete's sake. �(I know that's heresy here, but
> > whether
> > you pay $2 or $200, it all ends up the same.) �Of course, a woman has
> > to have some standards, but I prefer a middle-of-the-road approach.
> > My idea of a special night out is dinner for two at an Asian fusion
> > place
> > in Ann Arbor. �Since we don't drink... wine, it's usually about $70
> > for
> > both of us.
>
> Depends what's meant by "high-calber", the OP is mute on that point...
> at $70 for essentially stir fry I'd call that high caliber prices..

My husband usually gets the rack of lamb. My order varies, although
I usually get some sort of fish. Not stir fry by any means. The tab
also includes dessert--a "lava" cake thingy with coconut ice cream
and brandied cherries. Very tasty.

> and since you don't drink... booze, you can do just as well at less
> than half that price at a neighborhood golden wok take out... hey, as
> you say it all ends up the same. Â*But that's not the point... you can
> ride from point A to point B in a Toyota Corolla but it just ain't
> nearly the same ride as in a Chrysler 300 SRT.

I owned a Toyota Corolla. It provided an efficient means of
transporting
me and my stuff from Point A to Point B. That is what I desire in a
car.
I have no interest in some big land yacht.

I replaced it with a Matrix because I don't like hauling my groceries
over
the trunk.

> But if I'm going to pay like $100-$150 a couple for a steak dinner at
> a high caliber place Â*(to me high caliber means proper attire too)
> what's a ten spot to the hostess to ensure a better seating location
> and to get seated ahead of two other couples who are too tight
> fisted. Â*When you tip the hostess word passes at the get-go to all the
> other staff and you do indeed get better service, and better food and
> drink. Â*Everything in life has its price and not all things are
> equal... there are steak dinners and there are Steak Dinners... there
> are dentists and there are Dentists. Â*You can call it chi-chi Asian
> fusion all you like, it's stir fry... I wouldn't spend $70 at any
> restaurant for a small plate of sauted onions and broccoli with a few
> tiny bits of mystery meat swimming in thickened bouillion cube
> sauce... and all "fusion" means is that it's way over priced for
> teensy portions of mediocre food served with a paper umbrella.

Rack of lamb, Sheldon, not stir fry. I'd recommend you should
be more open-minded, except observation suggests that you
are incapable of it.

> The exhorbitant prices on the menu is for food only, really not a whit
> of difference from the exhorbitant prices on a vending machine, always
> remember that when you go to any restaurant you are not owed any
> consideration other than having food placed in front of you. Â*Anyone
> unwilling to tip really should eat home... if unwilling to cook or
> unable there are literally hundreds of take outs, many will even
> deliver... but Â*then you had better tip, or never order from them
> again. And usually those delivery emplyees in the neighborhood know
> each other and talk to each other, and in turn talk to the cooks as
> well... don't stiff them

I tip the waiter (and the pizza driver, which is the only kind of
delivery
we can get out in the sticks in the wilds of the Midwest).

Cindy Hamilton

On Jul 21, 9:04*am, "Dimitri" > wrote:
> A little sexist don't you think?

I'm not sure if you're claiming I'm sexist, or the culture sexist. I'm
not inventing the ritual. It's an observation. Am I the only one who
observes this part? The author backs up my theory in a lot of ways.
He's a male, sizes up the power player, who is all of the time male,
has female companion, dressed to the nines, male to male exchanges,
relates it all to the Cary Grant movies, etc.

Maybe it's more a generational observation, where as that generation
surely was sexist.

Karen

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:07:38 -0700,

>>Same with Gene Shallot we were at the Carnegie together at different tables.

Are you SURE you sat near, but different table Gene Shallot....(way
too green and bitter for my taste) or was it the real Gene Shalit,
movie critic?

"Billy" <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:07:38 -0700,
>
>>>Same with Gene Shallot we were at the Carnegie together at different
>>>tables.
>
> Are you SURE you sat near, but different table Gene Shallot....(way
> too green and bitter for my taste) or was it the real Gene Shalit,
> movie critic?

Whoops,

Thanks


--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
>
>
>
> > Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > > "The Ranger" wrote:
>
> > > > Would you bribe your way in to a high-caliber restaurant?
>
> > > No. I probably wouldn't go to a high-caliber restaurant if it didn't
> > > require a bribe, either.
>
> My husband usually gets the rack of lamb.
> I usually get some sort of fish. �

Your husband's rack of lamb used up most of your $70 tab, you must
have had a tuna salad sandwich.

I went back to reread your original response to The Ranger's
question... wasn't quite clear to me then so I gave you the benefit
of doubt, but based on your present position your original response
now makes no sense whatsoever (you can't have it both ways), unless
you truly meant that you wouldn't go to a high-caliber restaurant
unless it did indeed require a bribe.

Why do so many place a comma before ending a sentence with either...
is that how you speak, are you a stutterer?