Storrmmee wrote:
> lol, i don't go for pc, but i often say happy holidays, so i don't
> say the wrong thing to an individual...


I fail to understand why it such a BFD simply to acknowledge that not every
single person in the USA is a Christian.

Wendy, you missed the Winter Solstice, which is after all the real
foundation of most of these winter holidays.

"Janet" > wrote in message
...
> Storrmmee wrote:
>> lol, i don't go for pc, but i often say happy holidays, so i don't
>> say the wrong thing to an individual...
>
>
> I fail to understand why it such a BFD simply to acknowledge that not
> every single person in the USA is a Christian.
>
> Wendy, you missed the Winter Solstice, which is after all the real
> foundation of most of these winter holidays.

I'm not a Christian and neither is my brother and his wife. We all
celebrate Christmas and it has no religious meaning to us. It is a
commercial holiday to us. I won't get into the background as to why. I
simply don't do religion.

the bad part here is that instead of just being up front about it, people
either pander to christmas or go way too far the other direction, i am a
christain, but i also know tht is MY path and not the path of everyone, one
year we decorated the rest area, combined christian, things like madonna and
12 days of christmas, a menorra, sp, and a snow scene for winter soltis, the
building manager came and told me i could leave the winter soltis, and the
menorra and roudolf but the madonna had to come down... next day i had it
all down and packed, i simply am not descriminating either way, he was upset
i took down the rest of it and quiered me as to why, i said i honored ever
area i knew of, and if i can't spend my time and money the way i want then i
won't bother spending it at all, Lee
"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Janet" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Storrmmee wrote:
>>> lol, i don't go for pc, but i often say happy holidays, so i don't
>>> say the wrong thing to an individual...
>>
>>
>> I fail to understand why it such a BFD simply to acknowledge that not
>> every single person in the USA is a Christian.
>>
>> Wendy, you missed the Winter Solstice, which is after all the real
>> foundation of most of these winter holidays.
>
> I'm not a Christian and neither is my brother and his wife. We all
> celebrate Christmas and it has no religious meaning to us. It is a
> commercial holiday to us. I won't get into the background as to why. I
> simply don't do religion.
>

Storrmmee wrote:
> the bad part here is that instead of just being up front about it,
> people either pander to christmas or go way too far the other
> direction, i am a christain, but i also know tht is MY path and not
> the path of everyone, one year we decorated the rest area, combined
> christian, things like madonna and 12 days of christmas, a menorra,
> sp, and a snow scene for winter soltis, the building manager came and
> told me i could leave the winter soltis, and the menorra and roudolf
> but the madonna had to come down... next day i had it all down and
> packed, i simply am not descriminating either way, he was upset i
> took down the rest of it and quiered me as to why, i said i honored
> ever area i knew of, and if i can't spend my time and money the way i
> want then i won't bother spending it at all, Lee

I think he was being silly. But it sounds as if he doesn't recognize the
menorah as a religious item, since what he objected to was the sole really
religious Christian item, not the rest.

Perhaps if he had discussed his concerns with you instead of making an edict
you could have found some way to address the issue. Like using a Christmas
tree and a dreidel instead of a Madonna and a menorah, since the former are
less overtly religious.

i had the tree up but never thought of the dredel... its a state building,
so i think it was a policy thing, he in fact was a devout catholic, only
conflict we ever had in fact, and it was sad, because had it not come up i
had my eye on some cool stuff for quansa when it went on sale after the
holidays, Lee
"Janet" > wrote in message
...
> Storrmmee wrote:
>> the bad part here is that instead of just being up front about it,
>> people either pander to christmas or go way too far the other
>> direction, i am a christain, but i also know tht is MY path and not
>> the path of everyone, one year we decorated the rest area, combined
>> christian, things like madonna and 12 days of christmas, a menorra,
>> sp, and a snow scene for winter soltis, the building manager came and
>> told me i could leave the winter soltis, and the menorra and roudolf
>> but the madonna had to come down... next day i had it all down and
>> packed, i simply am not descriminating either way, he was upset i
>> took down the rest of it and quiered me as to why, i said i honored
>> ever area i knew of, and if i can't spend my time and money the way i
>> want then i won't bother spending it at all, Lee
>
> I think he was being silly. But it sounds as if he doesn't recognize the
> menorah as a religious item, since what he objected to was the sole really
> religious Christian item, not the rest.
>
> Perhaps if he had discussed his concerns with you instead of making an
> edict you could have found some way to address the issue. Like using a
> Christmas tree and a dreidel instead of a Madonna and a menorah, since the
> former are less overtly religious.
>
>

Storrmmee wrote:
> i had the tree up but never thought of the dredel... its a state
> building

In that case, there should be no religious displays in public areas at all.

Janet > wrote:
: Storrmmee wrote:
: > i had the tree up but never thought of the dredel... its a state
: > building

: In that case, there should be no religious displays in public areas at all.

I believe that was what the courts said. Displays of secular seasonal
objects like Santas, trees, etc, but not creches or, theorectically,
Menorahs on public property. it could be in a lobby, I guess, but not on
the school grounds or near City Hall, etc. I remember having a sicussion
at my synagogue about what woudl be Ok for Channuka a deciding that a
dreidel or a potato pancake or a jelly dounut woulf be about all we could
figu-)

Wendy

and that is how i felt, if we are goint to deny one then they all must go,
never have decorated since, Lee
"Janet" > wrote in message
...
> Storrmmee wrote:
>> i had the tree up but never thought of the dredel... its a state
>> building
>
> In that case, there should be no religious displays in public areas at
> all.
>
>
>

Janet > wrote:
: Storrmmee wrote:
: > lol, i don't go for pc, but i often say happy holidays, so i don't
: > say the wrong thing to an individual...


: I fail to understand why it such a BFD simply to acknowledge that not every
: single person in the USA is a Christian.

: Wendy, you missed the Winter Solstice, which is after all the real
: foundation of most of these winter holidays.

Of course it is, so why mention it? 1 to 8 candles, tress adn windows all
lit up. We all want to make sure that the sun ic coming back like it did
last year adn the one before, so we hel it along a little, each in our
own way:-)

Wendy

that does bother me, and in my circle of friends/work mattes, it always
ticks me off big time, we can translate into spanish a meal blessing, but
its always a christian prayer, i know of several of our managers who are
jewish or... grr seik, not sure thats spelled right, why not a nice jewish
blessing or seik prayer for once, Lee
"Janet" > wrote in message
...
> Storrmmee wrote:
>> lol, i don't go for pc, but i often say happy holidays, so i don't
>> say the wrong thing to an individual...
>
>
> I fail to understand why it such a BFD simply to acknowledge that not
> every single person in the USA is a Christian.
>
> Wendy, you missed the Winter Solstice, which is after all the real
> foundation of most of these winter holidays.
>

On 12/21/2011 8:58 PM, Storrmmee wrote:
> that does bother me, and in my circle of friends/work mattes, it always
> ticks me off big time, we can translate into spanish a meal blessing, but
> its always a christian prayer, i know of several of our managers who are
> jewish or... grr seik, not sure thats spelled right, why not a nice jewish
> blessing or seik prayer for once, Lee

having spent my life on a journey from one faith to another (as i
believe most are saying the same thing, essentially), i think it would
be GREAT to hear a Jewish blessing in English, or a seihk (i can't spell
either) blessing....... but...... in a language i understand

that's gonna be the harder part

kate

if they can take a christain prayer from englis to spanish, for three people
who know englis, surely we could do a jewish blessing in yittish? hebrew?
and translate it to english as at least six of our managers are jewish...
Lee
"Tiger Lily" > wrote in message
...
> On 12/21/2011 8:58 PM, Storrmmee wrote:
>> that does bother me, and in my circle of friends/work mattes, it always
>> ticks me off big time, we can translate into spanish a meal blessing, but
>> its always a christian prayer, i know of several of our managers who are
>> jewish or... grr seik, not sure thats spelled right, why not a nice
>> jewish
>> blessing or seik prayer for once, Lee
>
> having spent my life on a journey from one faith to another (as i believe
> most are saying the same thing, essentially), i think it would be GREAT to
> hear a Jewish blessing in English, or a seihk (i can't spell either)
> blessing....... but...... in a language i understand
>
> that's gonna be the harder part
>
> kate

On 12/22/2011 1:25 AM, Tiger Lily wrote:
> On 12/21/2011 8:58 PM, Storrmmee wrote:
>> that does bother me, and in my circle of friends/work mattes, it always
>> ticks me off big time, we can translate into spanish a meal blessing, but
>> its always a christian prayer, i know of several of our managers who are
>> jewish or... grr seik, not sure thats spelled right, why not a nice
>> jewish
>> blessing or seik prayer for once, Lee
>
> having spent my life on a journey from one faith to another (as i
> believe most are saying the same thing, essentially), i think it would
> be GREAT to hear a Jewish blessing in English, or a seihk (i can't spell
> either) blessing....... but...... in a language i understand
>
> that's gonna be the harder part
>
> kate


I once said the Jewish blessing on bread at a potluck with mostly
Christians present. I said it in Hebrew then translated it into English.
Everyone talked about my "grace" for weeks.

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

and nobody got hit by lightening and they learned something beautiful i am
sure about your path, Lee
"Janet Wilder" > wrote in message
b.com...
> On 12/22/2011 1:25 AM, Tiger Lily wrote:
>> On 12/21/2011 8:58 PM, Storrmmee wrote:
>>> that does bother me, and in my circle of friends/work mattes, it always
>>> ticks me off big time, we can translate into spanish a meal blessing,
>>> but
>>> its always a christian prayer, i know of several of our managers who are
>>> jewish or... grr seik, not sure thats spelled right, why not a nice
>>> jewish
>>> blessing or seik prayer for once, Lee
>>
>> having spent my life on a journey from one faith to another (as i
>> believe most are saying the same thing, essentially), i think it would
>> be GREAT to hear a Jewish blessing in English, or a seihk (i can't spell
>> either) blessing....... but...... in a language i understand
>>
>> that's gonna be the harder part
>>
>> kate
>
>
> I once said the Jewish blessing on bread at a potluck with mostly
> Christians present. I said it in Hebrew then translated it into English.
> Everyone talked about my "grace" for weeks.
>
> --
> Janet Wilder
> Way-the-heck-south Texas
> Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

On 12/22/2011 10:07 AM, Janet Wilder wrote:
> On 12/22/2011 1:25 AM, Tiger Lily wrote:
>> On 12/21/2011 8:58 PM, Storrmmee wrote:
>>> that does bother me, and in my circle of friends/work mattes, it always
>>> ticks me off big time, we can translate into spanish a meal blessing,
>>> but
>>> its always a christian prayer, i know of several of our managers who are
>>> jewish or... grr seik, not sure thats spelled right, why not a nice
>>> jewish
>>> blessing or seik prayer for once, Lee
>>
>> having spent my life on a journey from one faith to another (as i
>> believe most are saying the same thing, essentially), i think it would
>> be GREAT to hear a Jewish blessing in English, or a seihk (i can't spell
>> either) blessing....... but...... in a language i understand
>>
>> that's gonna be the harder part
>>
>> kate
>
>
> I once said the Jewish blessing on bread at a potluck with mostly
> Christians present. I said it in Hebrew then translated it into English.
> Everyone talked about my "grace" for weeks.
>

ohhhhhhh i would have loved the translation

i've heard many Hebrew blessings, but i don't understand Hebrew...... i
would love to hear the love and kindness from the perspective of another
group who believes in (entity of choice here)

kate

Tiger Lily > wrote:
: On 12/22/2011 10:07 AM, Janet Wilder wrote:
: > On 12/22/2011 1:25 AM, Tiger Lily wrote:
: >> On 12/21/2011 8:58 PM, Storrmmee wrote:
: >>> that does bother me, and in my circle of friends/work mattes, it always
: >>> ticks me off big time, we can translate into spanish a meal blessing,
: >>> but
: >>> its always a christian prayer, i know of several of our managers who are
: >>> jewish or... grr seik, not sure thats spelled right, why not a nice
: >>> jewish
: >>> blessing or seik prayer for once, Lee
: >>
: >> having spent my life on a journey from one faith to another (as i
: >> believe most are saying the same thing, essentially), i think it would
: >> be GREAT to hear a Jewish blessing in English, or a seihk (i can't spell
: >> either) blessing....... but...... in a language i understand
: >>
: >> that's gonna be the harder part
: >>
: >> kate
: >
: >
: > I once said the Jewish blessing on bread at a potluck with mostly
: > Christians present. I said it in Hebrew then translated it into English.
: > Everyone talked about my "grace" for weeks.
: >

: ohhhhhhh i would have loved the translation

: i've heard many Hebrew blessings, but i don't understand Hebrew...... i
: would love to hear the love and kindness from the perspective of another
: group who believes in (entity of choice here)

: kate

The bread blessing is a very universal kind of blessing. "Blessed are you
oh God, King f the Universe, who brings forth bread from the earth." The
one for wind is similarly neutral, "Blessed are you oh God, King of the
universe, who created the fruit of the vine." There are a number of
jewish blessing over differnt things, assorted kinds of foods, seeing a
rainbow, seeing something beautiful, etc, tht aare simple, like this. One
of my favorites, and one that is usesd on many occasions like holidays,
putting on a new garment, having the first fruit of the season(like the
first local tomato or peach, which goes "Blessed are you oh God, King of
the Uuniverse who has kept us in life, and has preserved us and enabled us
to reach this season."

With these three, yu can go a long way.

Wendy

On 12/22/2011 3:38 PM, W. Baker wrote:
> Tiger > wrote:
> : On 12/22/2011 10:07 AM, Janet Wilder wrote:
> :> On 12/22/2011 1:25 AM, Tiger Lily wrote:
> :>> On 12/21/2011 8:58 PM, Storrmmee wrote:
> :>>> that does bother me, and in my circle of friends/work mattes, it always
> :>>> ticks me off big time, we can translate into spanish a meal blessing,
> :>>> but
> :>>> its always a christian prayer, i know of several of our managers who are
> :>>> jewish or... grr seik, not sure thats spelled right, why not a nice
> :>>> jewish
> :>>> blessing or seik prayer for once, Lee
> :>>
> :>> having spent my life on a journey from one faith to another (as i
> :>> believe most are saying the same thing, essentially), i think it would
> :>> be GREAT to hear a Jewish blessing in English, or a seihk (i can't spell
> :>> either) blessing....... but...... in a language i understand
> :>>
> :>> that's gonna be the harder part
> :>>
> :>> kate
> :>
> :>
> :> I once said the Jewish blessing on bread at a potluck with mostly
> :> Christians present. I said it in Hebrew then translated it into English.
> :> Everyone talked about my "grace" for weeks.
> :>
>
> : ohhhhhhh i would have loved the translation
>
> : i've heard many Hebrew blessings, but i don't understand Hebrew...... i
> : would love to hear the love and kindness from the perspective of another
> : group who believes in (entity of choice here)
>
> : kate
>
> The bread blessing is a very universal kind of blessing. "Blessed are you
> oh God, King f the Universe, who brings forth bread from the earth." The
> one for wind is similarly neutral, "Blessed are you oh God, King of the
> universe, who created the fruit of the vine." There are a number of
> jewish blessing over differnt things, assorted kinds of foods, seeing a
> rainbow, seeing something beautiful, etc, tht aare simple, like this. One
> of my favorites, and one that is usesd on many occasions like holidays,
> putting on a new garment, having the first fruit of the season(like the
> first local tomato or peach, which goes "Blessed are you oh God, King of
> the Uuniverse who has kept us in life, and has preserved us and enabled us
> to reach this season."
>
> With these three, yu can go a long way.
Amen.

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

On 12/22/2011 2:38 PM, W. Baker wrote:

> The bread blessing is a very universal kind of blessing. "Blessed are you
> oh God, King f the Universe, who brings forth bread from the earth." The
> one for wind is similarly neutral, "Blessed are you oh God, King of the
> universe, who created the fruit of the vine." There are a number of
> jewish blessing over differnt things, assorted kinds of foods, seeing a
> rainbow, seeing something beautiful, etc, tht aare simple, like this. One
> of my favorites, and one that is usesd on many occasions like holidays,
> putting on a new garment, having the first fruit of the season(like the
> first local tomato or peach, which goes "Blessed are you oh God, King of
> the Uuniverse who has kept us in life, and has preserved us and enabled us
> to reach this season."
>
> With these three, yu can go a long way.
>
> Wendy

Thanks, Wendy, saved!

kate

On 12/21/2011 9:58 PM, Storrmmee wrote:
> that does bother me, and in my circle of friends/work mattes, it always
> ticks me off big time, we can translate into spanish a meal blessing, but
> its always a christian prayer, i know of several of our managers who are
> jewish or... grr seik, not sure thats spelled right, why not a nice jewish
> blessing or seik prayer for once, Lee


Lee,

I think any blessing thanking the Creator for the bounty of the food is
appropriate. Just don't name any deity.
--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

you are correct any blessing is better than no blessing, but it simply
wouldn't hurt to honor other religions as well, Lee
"Janet Wilder" > wrote in message
b.com...
> On 12/21/2011 9:58 PM, Storrmmee wrote:
>> that does bother me, and in my circle of friends/work mattes, it always
>> ticks me off big time, we can translate into spanish a meal blessing, but
>> its always a christian prayer, i know of several of our managers who are
>> jewish or... grr seik, not sure thats spelled right, why not a nice
>> jewish
>> blessing or seik prayer for once, Lee
>
>
> Lee,
>
> I think any blessing thanking the Creator for the bounty of the food is
> appropriate. Just don't name any deity.
> --
> Janet Wilder
> Way-the-heck-south Texas
> Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

"Janet Wilder" > wrote in message
b.com...
> On 12/21/2011 9:58 PM, Storrmmee wrote:
>> that does bother me, and in my circle of friends/work mattes, it
>> always
>> ticks me off big time, we can translate into spanish a meal blessing,
>> but
>> its always a christian prayer, i know of several of our managers who
>> are
>> jewish or... grr seik, not sure thats spelled right, why not a nice
>> jewish
>> blessing or seik prayer for once, Lee
>
>
> Lee,
>
> I think any blessing thanking the Creator for the bounty of the food
> is appropriate. Just don't name any deity.
> --


Or we could embrace everyone's right to freedom of choice and allow
others to celebrate their religion, or not. I have no problem with
people having public celebrations along with their decorations. Seeing
multi cultural and multi religious occasions can be an education IMO.
Forcing people to hide who they are is not right, again IMO. I am a
Christian and I think Christmas is very commercial but I celebrate
Christmas as a fun time holiday which makes a lot of people happy and
their is a lot of giving. The whole Christmas thing doesn't alter my
beliefs because one can "celebrate" their religion 24/7. With the prayer
thing, I can't see why people can't rotate the blessing so everyone gets
to say out loud a prayer that is applicable to them. In your hearts you
are still thanking your chosen deity or way of life but you are allowing
freedom of expression for all.

Ozgirl wrote:

> With the
> prayer thing, I can't see why people can't rotate the blessing so
> everyone gets to say out loud a prayer that is applicable to them. In
> your hearts you are still thanking your chosen deity or way of life
> but you are allowing freedom of expression for all.

Except the atheists.

"Janet" > wrote in message
...
> Ozgirl wrote:
>
>> With the
>> prayer thing, I can't see why people can't rotate the blessing so
>> everyone gets to say out loud a prayer that is applicable to them. In
>> your hearts you are still thanking your chosen deity or way of life
>> but you are allowing freedom of expression for all.
>
> Except the atheists.


Maybe. I am an atheist. It does really bother me that people choose to
pray but I do find it rather silly.

"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Janet" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Ozgirl wrote:
>>
>>> With the
>>> prayer thing, I can't see why people can't rotate the blessing so
>>> everyone gets to say out loud a prayer that is applicable to them.
>>> In
>>> your hearts you are still thanking your chosen deity or way of life
>>> but you are allowing freedom of expression for all.
>>
>> Except the atheists.
>
>
> Maybe. I am an atheist. It does really bother me that people choose
> to pray but I do find it rather silly.

As does my brother I suspect but he never says it out loud. At funerals
and the like he will sit quietly while people pray and sign hymns or
whatever. He hasn't ridiculed Chrisitian beliefs since he was a young
(and rather radical) uni student at 18.

"Janet" > wrote in message
...
> Ozgirl wrote:
>
>> With the
>> prayer thing, I can't see why people can't rotate the blessing so
>> everyone gets to say out loud a prayer that is applicable to them. In
>> your hearts you are still thanking your chosen deity or way of life
>> but you are allowing freedom of expression for all.
>
> Except the atheists.

Well I am not offended or upset hearing people pray or whatever to their
chosen deity or philosophy. I think that's called tolerance. Atheists
I'm sure are still thankful for something at a dinner table. Even if its
thanking the cook. No one should go unheard, IMO If a Christian can
tolerate the fact that Jewish people don't believe in Jesus being the
person Christians think he is then that IMO is no different to
tolerating the fact an atheist believes in no deity.

wrote:
>No one should go unheard, IMO If a Christian can
>tolerate the fact that Jewish people don't believe in Jesus being the
>person Christians think he is then that IMO is no different to
>tolerating the fact an atheist believes in no deity.

If Jesus isn't the person we Christians think he is, then what happened to his
body after death? Either everyone who thought they saw him resurrected was no
crack or it actually happened.

Orlando