My wife and I are remodeling, and have a good kitchen design that puts
a cooktop on a peninsula. The design of the room would really be
hampered by a hood coming down from the ceiling. We can go with an
electric or gas cooktop (we would prefer gas). We are looking at the
two kenmore pop-up downdraft units, because we can get significant
discounts at sears. For $350, we can get model #59940 , which goes up
7". For $700, we can get model #59960 , which rises 9.5", and appears
to have to some better features. We can easily vent down and outside,
and we would be willing to make other modifications as well (would a
vent or exhaust fan in the ceiling above the cooktop (9' high ceiling)
help?)

Can someone out there please enlighten us?

"Joe Masters" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> My wife and I are remodeling, and have a good kitchen design that puts
> a cooktop on a peninsula. The design of the room would really be
> hampered by a hood coming down from the ceiling. We can go with an
> electric or gas cooktop (we would prefer gas). We are looking at the
> two kenmore pop-up downdraft units, because we can get significant
> discounts at sears. For $350, we can get model #59940 , which goes up
> 7". For $700, we can get model #59960 , which rises 9.5", and appears
> to have to some better features. We can easily vent down and outside,
> and we would be willing to make other modifications as well (would a
> vent or exhaust fan in the ceiling above the cooktop (9' high ceiling)
> help?)
>
> Can someone out there please enlighten us?

Ever watch the steam vapor coming off of a boiling pot? Does it go down?
How about grease splatters from a pan, in what direction do they go? Is
this starting to make some sense now?

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "Joe Masters" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> My wife and I are remodeling, and have a good kitchen design that puts
>> a cooktop on a peninsula. The design of the room would really be
>> hampered by a hood coming down from the ceiling. We can go with an
>> electric or gas cooktop (we would prefer gas). We are looking at the
>> two kenmore pop-up downdraft units, because we can get significant
>> discounts at sears. For $350, we can get model #59940 , which goes up
>> 7". For $700, we can get model #59960 , which rises 9.5", and appears
>> to have to some better features. We can easily vent down and outside,
>> and we would be willing to make other modifications as well (would a
>> vent or exhaust fan in the ceiling above the cooktop (9' high ceiling)
>> help?)
>>
>> Can someone out there please enlighten us?
>
> Ever watch the steam vapor coming off of a boiling pot? Does it go down?
> How about grease splatters from a pan, in what direction do they go? Is
> this starting to make some sense now?

My opinion: Do anything but buy a downdrafted stove if you have any kind of
choice. Don't think twice.
Dee Dee

On Oct 29, 7:32 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
> "Joe Masters" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > My wife and I are remodeling, and have a good kitchen design that puts
> > a cooktop on a peninsula. The design of the room would really be
> > hampered by a hood coming down from the ceiling. We can go with an
> > electric or gas cooktop (we would prefer gas). We are looking at the
> > two kenmore pop-up downdraft units, because we can get significant
> > discounts at sears. For $350, we can get model #59940 , which goes up
> > 7". For $700, we can get model #59960 , which rises 9.5", and appears
> > to have to some better features. We can easily vent down and outside,
> > and we would be willing to make other modifications as well (would a
> > vent or exhaust fan in the ceiling above the cooktop (9' high ceiling)
> > help?)
>
> > Can someone out there please enlighten us?
>
> Ever watch the steam vapor coming off of a boiling pot? Does it go down?
> How about grease splatters from a pan, in what direction do they go? Is
> this starting to make some sense now?

The pop-up downdraft (note that I'm not talking about the downdraft
that's at the same level as the burners) would be above the pots/pan,
and would be closer to the steam and grease than a hood would be. The
hood would presumably have a stronger fan, and a more uniform sucking
power over the cooktops.

I have been unable to find any kind of objective review / testing of
downdraft vs. hood anywhere. Consumer Reports looked at two downdraft
hoods that they "don't recommend", but they don't go into any detail
beyond that. Reading reviews from individuals, I see everything from
"mine is great" to "they're fine for some stuff, but not for
grilling". Has anyone done an objective test showing the point at
which hoods beat downdrafts? For pasta and soup, a downdraft and hood
are comparable in terms of heat/grease/smoke removal, right?

So many companies sell downdrafts -- they must have some level of
usability, right? I mean, is there any mass-produced kitchen item by
many different companies that costs $500-$1000 and simple does not do
what it claims to do?

"Joe Masters" > wrote in message
>
> The pop-up downdraft (note that I'm not talking about the downdraft
> that's at the same level as the burners) would be above the pots/pan,
> and would be closer to the steam and grease than a hood would be. The
> hood would presumably have a stronger fan, and a more uniform sucking
> power over the cooktops.

OK, you already know the answer so no sense in telling you about the
experience of others. Carry on.

>
> Has anyone done an objective test showing the point at
> which hoods beat downdrafts?

Yes. From the start.


>For pasta and soup, a downdraft and hood
> are comparable in terms of heat/grease/smoke removal, right?

I don't doubt you a bit.



>
> So many companies sell downdrafts -- they must have some level of
> usability, right? I mean, is there any mass-produced kitchen item by
> many different companies that costs $500-$1000 and simple does not do
> what it claims to do?

They sold Yugos too. And the Sterling. Remember when doctors told patients
they should have a cigarette to calm their nerves?

Joe Masters > wrote:

> So many companies sell downdrafts -- they must have some level of
> usability, right? I mean, is there any mass-produced kitchen item by
> many different companies that costs $500-$1000 and simple does not do
> what it claims to do?

I view the continued availability of downdraft systems the same
way I view second and third marriages. It's the triumph of hope
over experience.

Everything I've read says that downdraft vents are not really
very good, even the pop-up models are marginal, but people keep
*hoping*. Yes, you can find a few individuals here and there
that seem to like theirs, but they are far outweighed by the
number who say they would not have another one.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

Yes, they are. They're better than nothing, but that's not saying much.

-- Larry

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:21:07 -0700, Joe Masters >
wrote:

>My wife and I are remodeling, and have a good kitchen design that puts
>a cooktop on a peninsula. The design of the room would really be
>hampered by a hood coming down from the ceiling. We can go with an
>electric or gas cooktop (we would prefer gas). We are looking at the
>two kenmore pop-up downdraft units, because we can get significant
>discounts at sears. For $350, we can get model #59940 , which goes up
>7". For $700, we can get model #59960 , which rises 9.5", and appears
>to have to some better features. We can easily vent down and outside,
>and we would be willing to make other modifications as well (would a
>vent or exhaust fan in the ceiling above the cooktop (9' high ceiling)
>help?)

In her previous kitchen, my sister had a similar design with her
cooktop on a peninsula, and she had a downdraft fan (made by GE) that
rose up about 7 inches. I remember this thing was nearly useless; she
hated it, but it was better than nothing. When she redid her kitchen,
she put her cooktop on a wall and now has an overhead hood vent, which
works FAR better. Could you swap your sink with your stove in this
kitchen design and use an overhead hood instead, for better results?
Sinks in peninsulas work well for lots of people.

Every time I see one of these threads about hoods, be it whatever kind,
I have to ask: why do you even need one? For years homeowners made out
okay without any type of range hood. I know, some are going to argue
about smells getting around the house, grease spatters, etc. So what's
the big deal about smelling food cooking in the house? And no hood is
going to do anything about grease spatters. You'd need suction power
that's simply not available to the domestic buyer. And why would you
want to pull up grease spatters? Not too bright of an idea.

So a kitchen shows signs of usage. Like Emeril says: "we're really doing
cooking here".

This missive is coming from someone who runs a Viking 36 inch stove
without any type of hood and without any type of problem.
--
Jack N2MPU
Proud NRA Life Member

"Jack" > wrote in message
news:qJFVi.2425$mv.1157@trndny08...
> Every time I see one of these threads about hoods, be it whatever kind, I
> have to ask: why do you even need one? For years homeowners made out okay
> without any type of range hood. I know, some are going to argue about
> smells getting around the house, grease spatters, etc. So what's the big
> deal about smelling food cooking in the house? And no hood is going to do
> anything about grease spatters. You'd need suction power that's simply not
> available to the domestic buyer. And why would you want to pull up grease
> spatters? Not too bright of an idea.
>
> So a kitchen shows signs of usage. Like Emeril says: "we're really doing
> cooking here".
>
> This missive is coming from someone who runs a Viking 36 inch stove
> without any type of hood and without any type of problem.
> --
> Jack N2MPU
> Proud NRA Life Member


I notice on foodnetwork tv that most of the time I can't find/see their
hood venting system. If there is one, it is decorative and behind the chef
on a stove (maybe a Viking or Wolf) that is not being used for the
demonstration, but perhaps the oven only.

I cook a lot and I have cabinets overhead of the stove. If I forget to turn
on the hood vent, my wooden cabinets are covered with steam. Steam/Water on
wood is not a good thing.

I'll be making soup this afternoon. It will be on the back burner for
sometime while I'm adding each vegetable. The pot will be a little high and
there will be a lot of steam and I will turn on the hood fan throughout the
cooking.

I guess we all have our tolerances, but the only kitchen odor I like to
smell on entering the house is cookies and bread; of which I have my bread
baking at 425F right now. The steam/heat is coming out the front of the
oven door; no need to heat the house today.

Dee Dee

Dee.Dee > wrote:

> I notice on foodnetwork tv that most of the time I can't find/see their
> hood venting system. If there is one, it is decorative and behind the chef
> on a stove (maybe a Viking or Wolf) that is not being used for the
> demonstration, but perhaps the oven only.

Studios have much higher ceilings, probably 2 stories or more, than
your average home kitchen and I'll bet there are some honking big
industrial vent systems up there somewhere. They need clear space
above the stage cook surface for lights, cameras, microphones and
who knows what else.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:47:18 GMT, Jack >
wrote:

>Every time I see one of these threads about hoods, be it whatever kind,
>I have to ask: why do you even need one? For years homeowners made out
>okay without any type of range hood. I know, some are going to argue
>about smells getting around the house, grease spatters, etc. So what's
>the big deal about smelling food cooking in the house? And no hood is
>going to do anything about grease spatters. You'd need suction power
>that's simply not available to the domestic buyer. And why would you
>want to pull up grease spatters? Not too bright of an idea.

So tell me, how much time do you spend wiping down your kitchen walls
and ceiling of the grease spatters that wind up there? The pots above
my current rangetop get pretty grungy with grease and need to be
thoroughly washed down if they're not used regularly. I have also
found grease on my 9ft high ceilings, plus adjacent walls, so....

This is a serious question from someone currently without a range hood
who may redo the kitchen and install one, but if you can explain to me
the extent of your cleaning and sanitizing habits, I might be
persuaded to forego the purchase of a hood and spending the money on
installing the soffitt needed to bring the venting out to the chimney.
It would save me about $2,500, so I really am interested in your
answer. Would I be better off just tiling off that entire wall the
rangetop is on?

"KLS" > wrote in message
> This is a serious question from someone currently without a range hood
> who may redo the kitchen and install one, but if you can explain to me
> the extent of your cleaning and sanitizing habits, I might be
> persuaded to forego the purchase of a hood and spending the money on
> installing the soffitt needed to bring the venting out to the chimney.
> It would save me about $2,500, so I really am interested in your
> answer. Would I be better off just tiling off that entire wall the
> rangetop is on?


Having grown up in four houses with no hoods, I'd say it is not that big a
deal. Yes, it is better to have one, but millions of homes do not. Not
knowing your situation I can't say if spending $2500 is worth it. If it was
a major re-model, I'd probably spend the money. If it is a "sprucing up",
I'd probably hold off.

KLS wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:47:18 GMT, Jack >
> wrote:
>
>> Every time I see one of these threads about hoods, be it whatever kind,
>> I have to ask: why do you even need one? For years homeowners made out
>> okay without any type of range hood. I know, some are going to argue
>> about smells getting around the house, grease spatters, etc. So what's
>> the big deal about smelling food cooking in the house? And no hood is
>> going to do anything about grease spatters. You'd need suction power
>> that's simply not available to the domestic buyer. And why would you
>> want to pull up grease spatters? Not too bright of an idea.
>
> So tell me, how much time do you spend wiping down your kitchen walls
> and ceiling of the grease spatters that wind up there? The pots above
> my current rangetop get pretty grungy with grease and need to be
> thoroughly washed down if they're not used regularly. I have also
> found grease on my 9ft high ceilings, plus adjacent walls, so....
>
I spend no time wiping down kitchen walls because any grease spatters
never get that far. I use a spatter shield that's like a knitter's hoop
and it has metallic screening that traps the spatters. If you've got
grease spatters happening that far out from the range top, there's
something wrong going on.
And I don't keep pots and pans above the cooktop so no worried there.
--
Jack N2MPU
Proud NRA Life Member

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:27:38 GMT, Jack > wrote:

>I spend no time wiping down kitchen walls because any grease spatters
>never get that far. I use a spatter shield that's like a knitter's hoop
>and it has metallic screening that traps the spatters. If you've got
>grease spatters happening that far out from the range top, there's
>something wrong going on.

Hmmm -- the opposite of my experience. Even from my main burner, the right
front, spatters reach both the control panel (all the time) and the wall behind
it (less frequently). So I went with a stainless steel panel on the wall behind
the stove. Now that just gets a few swipes, along with the nightly cleaning of
the glass cooktop.

I've never understood the utility of spatter shields. Grease still spatters
whenever you lift the shield to turn or manipulate the food, and I believe they
clog and provide enough vapor containment to cause the food to steam somewhat
under certain conditions. The only thing I am certain that they do is get dirty,
and give you one more thing to wash.

-- Larry

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:47:18 GMT, Jack > wrote:

>Every time I see one of these threads about hoods, be it whatever kind,
>I have to ask: why do you even need one? For years homeowners made out
>okay without any type of range hood.

They also didn't have smoke detectors, which are now required in most homes in
many places. Interconnected sprinkler systems are also required in all new homes
in my city. Without the hood going full blast (or full suck), my smoke detectors
go off about five seconds after the cast iron reaches searing temperature, and
they are a bitch to turn off.

>This missive is coming from someone who runs a Viking 36 inch stove
>without any type of hood and without any type of problem.

If you have a smoke detector, and unless you have a convenient means of turning
it off, I would question what you cook beyond boiling water for tea. 8

-- Larry

pltrgyst wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:47:18 GMT, Jack > wrote:
>
>> Every time I see one of these threads about hoods, be it whatever kind,
>> I have to ask: why do you even need one? For years homeowners made out
>> okay without any type of range hood.
>
> They also didn't have smoke detectors, which are now required in most homes in
> many places. Interconnected sprinkler systems are also required in all new homes
> in my city. Without the hood going full blast (or full suck), my smoke detectors
> go off about five seconds after the cast iron reaches searing temperature, and
> they are a bitch to turn off.
>
>> This missive is coming from someone who runs a Viking 36 inch stove
>> without any type of hood and without any type of problem.
>
> If you have a smoke detector, and unless you have a convenient means of turning
> it off, I would question what you cook beyond boiling water for tea. 8
>
> -- Larry
I cook WAY MORE than just your hypothetical 'boiling water for tea'. I
do plenty of stir-frys, pan fries, pan sears and so on without the smoke
detector going off. It's 9 feet from the cook top and around a corner so
there's no direct air flow to it. And I can just reach up and remove the
battery if I even think it might go off.

--
Jack N2MPU
Proud NRA Life Member

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:29:09 GMT, KLS > wrote:

> Could you swap your sink with your stove in this
>kitchen design and use an overhead hood instead, for better results?
>Sinks in peninsulas work well for lots of people.

It is safer to have a range against a wall. You won't have people reaching
over it. People spend far more time in front of a sink. If this location is
conducive to having a conversation over, then why not a sink? (Though my
first choice is the sink looks out a window.)

Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).