I smoked two butts the other day. Went in about 5pm and pulled out at
around 2am after hitting 198*
I put it in an insulated bag and left it outside. By 10am it was
still warm and served for lunch.
Should I have put it in the refrig. when I took it out? Any danger of
bad little critters forming? I figured 198 would just have killed any
bacteria, so why refrig. right away?
Eddie

Eddie wrote:

> I smoked two butts the other day. Went in about 5pm and pulled out at
> around 2am after hitting 198*
> I put it in an insulated bag and left it outside. By 10am it was
> still warm and served for lunch.
> Should I have put it in the refrig. when I took it out? Any danger of
> bad little critters forming? I figured 198 would just have killed any
> bacteria, so why refrig. right away?
> Eddie

Eddie,

The right thing to do is to fridge it right away. It was warm in the
morning but it still may have been in the 40-140 F danger zone for
too long.

There is a warning you may hear about not fridging hot stuff, but,
this is only a potential problem when the combined mass and temperature
of the hot food is such that it pulls the temperature of the fridge
above 38 F, which would put the other food in the fridge at risk.

The only time I've ever actually seen this happen though is when
someone put a super hot 20 qt stock pot into their home fridge. In that
case it did indeed bring the fridge temp up too high for too long.
This probably wouldn't happen with the 2 butts you cooked though.
It doesn't happen with my home fridge.

Best way to make sure that doesn't happen is to keep a thermometer
in the fridge and make sure it never goes above 38 F for long.

"Eddie" > wrote in message
...
>I smoked two butts the other day. Went in about 5pm and pulled out at
> around 2am after hitting 198*
> I put it in an insulated bag and left it outside. By 10am it was
> still warm and served for lunch.
> Should I have put it in the refrig. when I took it out? Any danger of
> bad little critters forming? I figured 198 would just have killed any
> bacteria, so why refrig. right away?
> Eddie

The guys that check to see if you removed the tag on your mattress and
pillows will also lock you up if the temperature of the meat falls below 140
degrees.

Putting the meat in an insulated container will keep it in the safe zone for
a long time. That means above 140. At 198, anything should be dead, but I
guess it can become contaminated from handling also. For that reason, I
don't think anyone can give a definite answer either way. My guess is you
were OK but that is strictly a guess not knowing how warm was warm and how
long it was at any temperature. It can take some hours to have problems
though.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "Eddie" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I smoked two butts the other day. Went in about 5pm and pulled out at
> > around 2am after hitting 198*
> > I put it in an insulated bag and left it outside. By 10am it was
> > still warm and served for lunch.
> > Should I have put it in the refrig. when I took it out? Any danger of
> > bad little critters forming? I figured 198 would just have killed any
> > bacteria, so why refrig. right away?
> > Eddie
>
> The guys that check to see if you removed the tag on your mattress and
> pillows will also lock you up if the temperature of the meat falls below 140
> degrees.
>
> Putting the meat in an insulated container will keep it in the safe zone for
> a long time. That means above 140. At 198, anything should be dead, but I
> guess it can become contaminated from handling also. For that reason, I
> don't think anyone can give a definite answer either way. My guess is you
> were OK but that is strictly a guess not knowing how warm was warm and how
> long it was at any temperature. It can take some hours to have problems
> though.

Yes, no simple answer on this which is why everyone always punts to the
"refrigerate it" option.

If the meat was cooked up to 198, with the exterior exposed to higher
temps in a closed environment like an oven it should be pretty well
sterilized so that allowing it to slowly cool down through the "danger
zone" should be safe.

If on the other hand the meat was cooked and then handled and placed
into a non sterile environment (foil, cooler, etc.) before being allowed
to slowly cool, it is possible it could become contaminated and then the
bacteria would have an opportunity to multiply as it passed through the
"danger zone".

This is where there is some advantage to smoking the meat for some
number of hours and then finishing in an oven since the last hour or two
in the oven re-sterilizes the meat after potential handling
contamination as well as sterilizing the oven interior. At the end of
the cooking period the oven can be turned off and allowed to cool slowly
with pretty good safety since the oven is at that point a mostly sealed
sterile environment.

On Aug 24, 8:24*pm, RegForte > wrote:
.................................................. ......................................
> Best way to make sure that doesn't happen is to keep a thermometer
> in the fridge and make sure it never goes above 38 F for long.

Hi Reg,
Thanks for the reminder! Haven't checked my frig thermometer for a
least a year (my bad). Setting right at 36° F.
:-) Robin

This is how you are supposed to cook a meal, especially meat.

1. Buy meat.
2. Prepare meat with sauces, rubs, spices etc..
3. Cook meat.
4. Let meat rest for 10-15 minutes (depending on size and time constraints
and how warm you want to eat it or how hungry you are!).
5. Eat it.

Why would you finish cooking at 2am in the morning and have to wait until
10am and then serve it for lunch?

What did you eat in the meantime?

"Eddie" > wrote in message
...
> I smoked two butts the other day. Went in about 5pm and pulled out at
> around 2am after hitting 198*
> I put it in an insulated bag and left it outside. By 10am it was
> still warm and served for lunch.
> Should I have put it in the refrig. when I took it out? Any danger of
> bad little critters forming? I figured 198 would just have killed any
> bacteria, so why refrig. right away?
> Eddie

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:06:48 -0700, "Harry" >
wrote:

>This is how you are supposed to cook a meal, especially meat.
>
>1. Buy meat.
>2. Prepare meat with sauces, rubs, spices etc..
>3. Cook meat.
>4. Let meat rest for 10-15 minutes (depending on size and time constraints
>and how warm you want to eat it or how hungry you are!).
>5. Eat it.
>
>Why would you finish cooking at 2am in the morning and have to wait until
>10am and then serve it for lunch?
>
>What did you eat in the meantime?
>
Harry, I like your recommendation. But here's what happened. I
originally wanted to smoke till 8 the following morning. I had
planned for a 15-hr smoke, more or less. Problem is I have a Kamado
and that sucker is hard to keep at low temps. I just can't get it
down to a sustained 225, the recommended low and slow method. It
would go down, but after putting in another log, it would go up,
averaging around 275 to 300. At around 2am the Maverick went off and
I figured I better pull it out when it was almost 200 internal.
It's been three days and there have been no casualties so I assume it
was safe. <g>
Next time I'll refrigerate right away just in case.
btw, the butts were not touched by human hands, I used the large fork
to lift and put in fresh tinfoil, wrapped tightly, and then into the
insulated container.
Thanks all
Eddie

Gotcha. All equipment is different. But, hey, now you know! And, if it
tasted good and nobody got sick... no prob!

Good times.

"Eddie" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:06:48 -0700, "Harry" >
> wrote:
>
>>This is how you are supposed to cook a meal, especially meat.
>>
>>1. Buy meat.
>>2. Prepare meat with sauces, rubs, spices etc..
>>3. Cook meat.
>>4. Let meat rest for 10-15 minutes (depending on size and time constraints
>>and how warm you want to eat it or how hungry you are!).
>>5. Eat it.
>>
>>Why would you finish cooking at 2am in the morning and have to wait until
>>10am and then serve it for lunch?
>>
>>What did you eat in the meantime?
>>
> Harry, I like your recommendation. But here's what happened. I
> originally wanted to smoke till 8 the following morning. I had
> planned for a 15-hr smoke, more or less. Problem is I have a Kamado
> and that sucker is hard to keep at low temps. I just can't get it
> down to a sustained 225, the recommended low and slow method. It
> would go down, but after putting in another log, it would go up,
> averaging around 275 to 300. At around 2am the Maverick went off and
> I figured I better pull it out when it was almost 200 internal.
> It's been three days and there have been no casualties so I assume it
> was safe. <g>
> Next time I'll refrigerate right away just in case.
> btw, the butts were not touched by human hands, I used the large fork
> to lift and put in fresh tinfoil, wrapped tightly, and then into the
> insulated container.
> Thanks all
> Eddie

Nunya Bidnits wrote:
>
> Ed Pawlowski said:
>
> >
> > Putting the meat in an insulated container will keep it in the safe
> > zone for a long time. That means above 140. At 198, anything should
> > be dead, but I guess it can become contaminated from handling also.
>
> Unless it's been sterilized and continuously handled using sterile technique
> end environment, that is true. Bacteria are everywhere, and particularly
> prevalent in the kitchen.
>
> I saw a program debunking the "5 second rule" where foods were dropped on
> various surfaces for 5 seconds, then cultured to find out what bacteria they
> had picked up. This included many surfaces including a kitchen floor and
> even a toilet seat. All of them were shown to be contaminated in such a way
> as to be unfit for consumption. Of all the surfaces tested, the kitchen
> floor sample grew the most bacteria. The bottom line was that everywhere you
> go, there are bacterial contaminants.
>
> MBKC

I've seen several programs claiming to test the "5 second rule" and
every single one failed miserably in their testing methodology,
invalidating their results. In every case they did the potential
contamination incident and then incubated the sample which invalidates
the test since the "5 second rule" is about fitness to eat or cook after
the drop, not after the drop and a subsequent 24 hour incubation at
"danger zone" temperatures. Yes when you drop stuff it picks up
bacterial contamination, however that contamination is not at a level
that is at all dangerous for immediate consumption or immediate cooking
and then consumption.

"Nunya Bidnits" > wrote in message
>
> I saw a program debunking the "5 second rule" where foods were dropped on
> various surfaces for 5 seconds, then cultured to find out what bacteria
> they
> had picked up. This included many surfaces including a kitchen floor and
> even a toilet seat. All of them were shown to be contaminated in such a
> way
> as to be unfit for consumption. Of all the surfaces tested, the kitchen
> floor sample grew the most bacteria. The bottom line was that everywhere
> you
> go, there are bacterial contaminants.
>
> MBKC

So, can we conclude that when you take the cooked meat from the smoker it
should be put on the toilet seat instead of the floor? A couple of cold
water flushes gets the temperature down faster.

On 25-Aug-2009, "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:

> "Nunya Bidnits" > wrote in message
> >

.. . .

> So, can we conclude that when you take the cooked meat from the smoker it
>
> should be put on the toilet seat instead of the floor? A couple of cold
> water flushes gets the temperature down faster.

I can't 'Q' anymore because I have been dead for five years or so. I began
leaving 'Q' in the cooler overnight back in '03. By the time I get to it
it's usually
(guessing) in the 110 deg range. It's warmer then body temperature by quite
a bit, but not to hot to handle barehanded. Come to think of it, my wife
and
several neighbors must be dead too although they keep turning their lights
on
every evening.

That techno stuff sounds great and probably keeps a lot of people in jobs
but my grandparents thought refrigeration was a fantasy and they managed
to spawn several more generations and most died of old age.

But again, maybe that's why there's no line at my door looking for
handouts.
The word must have gotten around that I don't put hot meat in the
refrigerator
right away.

--
Brick (Nobody gets out of this world alive, but the grim reaper better
hurry
up because I'm working on it. The word a/o today is that my liver function
is
fine and my colesterol is in the ballpark. hic.)

Nunya Bidnits wrote:
>
> Pete C. said:
> > Nunya Bidnits wrote:
> >>
> >> Ed Pawlowski said:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Putting the meat in an insulated container will keep it in the safe
> >>> zone for a long time. That means above 140. At 198, anything
> >>> should be dead, but I guess it can become contaminated from
> >>> handling also.
> >>
> >> Unless it's been sterilized and continuously handled using sterile
> >> technique end environment, that is true. Bacteria are everywhere,
> >> and particularly prevalent in the kitchen.
> >>
> >> I saw a program debunking the "5 second rule" where foods were
> >> dropped on various surfaces for 5 seconds, then cultured to find out
> >> what bacteria they had picked up. This included many surfaces
> >> including a kitchen floor and even a toilet seat. All of them were
> >> shown to be contaminated in such a way as to be unfit for
> >> consumption. Of all the surfaces tested, the kitchen floor sample
> >> grew the most bacteria. The bottom line was that everywhere you go,
> >> there are bacterial contaminants.
> >>
> >> MBKC
> >
> > I've seen several programs claiming to test the "5 second rule" and
> > every single one failed miserably in their testing methodology,
> > invalidating their results. In every case they did the potential
> > contamination incident and then incubated the sample which invalidates
> > the test since the "5 second rule" is about fitness to eat or cook
> > after the drop, not after the drop and a subsequent 24 hour
> > incubation at "danger zone" temperatures. Yes when you drop stuff it
> > picks up bacterial contamination, however that contamination is not
> > at a level that is at all dangerous for immediate consumption or
> > immediate cooking and then consumption.
>
> I don't buy that last statement at all. I think you're saying that it is
> always safe to eat food that has been dropped on pretty much any surface.

No, I'm pretty sure that implied in the "5 second rule" is "non-grossly
contaminated surfaces", i.e. a normal kitchen floor or similar, not in a
pile of dog poop in the back yard.

> Besides it's subjective... how long did the food get held after the drop
> before eating...

Certainly not 24 hours in a friggin' incubator. It is presumed that the
"5 second rule" applies to food that will be immediately consumed i.e.
less than 1 minute, or cooked i.e. a steak dropped on the way to the
grill.

> did you serve anyone with an impaired immune system... did
> you step in dog sh*t in your yard yesterday and clean your shoes, but
> inadvertently track traces of it to your kitchen floor today? I just can't
> agree with that sort of sweeping generality.

You're the one coming up with the wide ranging tangents, far outside the
scope of the "5 second rule".

>
> The reason they incubated was to specify more easily everything which had
> contaminated the food. By the amount of growth of each type of bacteria they
> were able to figure how much of each of the the various bacteria had
> contaminated the food. The more bacteria there was to start with, the more
> would grow in the culture.

The incubated so they could visually see bacteria colonies - colonies
that did not exist on the food in the time period of the "5 second
rule". Bacteria counts in the time of the "5 second rule" would be in
tens, not millions, and tens are perfectly safe to eat and they will not
multiply in your stomach acid. It's even less of an issue with the steak
dropped on the way to the grill since those tens of bacteria will be
incinerated in short order.

>
> So all the culturing does is make more of whatever contaminants came off the
> surface. That's not invalid in this context, because whatever grew in the
> culture came from the drop spot, therefore some of the same goes in your
> body if you are crazy enough to eat it. They weren't even close to implying
> that you would actually be eating the same volumes in the culture. The point
> was that it proved the presence of harmful bacteria, and that there was more
> of it to be found on your kitchen floor than your toilet seat or your back
> yard.

Yes, but what they proved has virtually nothing to do with the "5 second
rule", and certainly does not invalidate the "5 second rule". If you
drop that cookie on the kitchen floor, pick it up and eat in in the "5
second rule" time frame, I can pretty much guarantee you will not get
sick. If you pick it up, incubate it in the danger zone for 24 hours and
then eat it, you may get sick. The "5 second rule" is valid.

>
> It's not scientific on the level of some clinical trial of a new drug, but
> it was sufficient to convince me that the kitchen floor is one of the most
> contaminated surfaces in the home. I think you'd have to be insane to eat
> anything off the kitchen floor after seeing that.

I think you'd have to be insane to think that the food item will pick up
appreciably more bacteria in that 5 second drop, than it will pickup
being placed on the plate you just took out of the cabinet. If you do
all your cooking with disposable gloves, have a bucket of sanitizer and
use it constantly and put food on plates just out of the heated
sanitizer cycle, you might get less bacteria, otherwise, the "5 second
rule" is valid and safe.