For those who have questions about smoke-roasting a turkey for the holidays,
the Virtual Bullet website has a very good set of instructions -- with
pictures even -- of a good, solid method and 'how to' guide.

It includes information on: how to brine the fowl in question (and has
recipes for a few brine mixtures), post-brine preparation of the bird for
the pit, information specific to setting up the WSM (although most of the
tips can apply to any pit), cooking the bird, the post-cook resting and
carving, and collecting drippings for gravy.

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/turkey6.html


A couple of other good brine recipes from our own TFM and our late, great
Hound:

Hound's Citrus Brine

2 gallons water
2 cups kosher salt
3/4 cup brown sugar, lightly packed
1 each juice of 3 oranges
1 each juice of 3 limes
1 each juice of 3 lemons
1 each rinds from oranges, limes and lemon;
1 sliced white onion
1 head of garlic, crushed
1 bunch of cilantro, chopped
4 serranos to taste
2 tbs rough ground cumin
2 tbs rough ground coriander
1/2 cup extra virgin olive oil

Place the bird and plenty of brine solution in an appropriately-sized
container and leave refrigerated overnight prior to cooking. A cooler works
fine also. I use a 5 gal beverage cooler for all but the biggest turkeys.
Frozen soda bottles, or ice can be used to keep the cold. {8 lbs of ice= 1
gallon of water}.

An hour before cooking take the bird out and thoroughly wash it down with
cold water for at least 30 seconds.

You can place aromatics like garlic heads, apples, citrus in the cavity of
the bird for the cooking. I like also to place orange slices between skin
and meat. This works for either chickens or turkeys.

If you eliminate the brine (salt and water) the rest of the recipe makes an
excellent marinade for grilled chicken.


The Fat Man's Chicken Kickin' Brine (I double the quantities for a turkey)

1 gallon water
5/8 cups pickling salt.
1 1/2 tbs light brown sugar
1 1/2 tbs garlic powder
1/2 tbs chili powder
1/2 tbs ground sage
1 tbs crushed red pepper
1/2 tbs fresh black pepper
2 whole bay leaves
1/2 tbs old bay seasoning
1 tbs Italian seasoning

Combine all the ingredients in a stock pot. Bring to a boil, turn heat down
to a simmer. Simmer and stir frequently until all the ingredients are
dissolved.

Allow to cool to room temperature before immersing the meat.

When you're ready to cook, drain and rinse the bird thoroughly; pat dry. If
you have time and like crispy skin, put the dry bird back in the 'fridge for
a while, uncovered.

Season again (no more salt please!) - you won't need butter or oil under the
skin to keep it moist, but if you like the flavor, by all means. Slices of
citrus under the skin, especially with the citrus brine above, are good.


--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

On Nov 4, 2:19 pm, "Dave Bugg" > wrote:
> For those who have questions about smoke-roasting a turkey for the holidays,
> the Virtual Bullet website has a very good set of instructions -- with
> pictures even -- of a good, solid method and 'how to' guide.
>
> It includes information on: how to brine the fowl in question (and has
> recipes for a few brine mixtures), post-brine preparation of the bird for
> the pit, information specific to setting up the WSM (although most of the
> tips can apply to any pit), cooking the bird, the post-cook resting and
> carving, and collecting drippings for gravy.
>
> http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/turkey6.html
>
> A couple of other good brine recipes from our own TFM and our late, great
> Hound:
>
> Hound's Citrus Brine
>
> 2 gallons water
> 2 cups kosher salt
> 3/4 cup brown sugar, lightly packed
> 1 each juice of 3 oranges
> 1 each juice of 3 limes
> 1 each juice of 3 lemons
> 1 each rinds from oranges, limes and lemon;
> 1 sliced white onion
> 1 head of garlic, crushed
> 1 bunch of cilantro, chopped
> 4 serranos to taste
> 2 tbs rough ground cumin
> 2 tbs rough ground coriander
> 1/2 cup extra virgin olive oil
>
> Place the bird and plenty of brine solution in an appropriately-sized
> container and leave refrigerated overnight prior to cooking. A cooler works
> fine also. I use a 5 gal beverage cooler for all but the biggest turkeys.
> Frozen soda bottles, or ice can be used to keep the cold. {8 lbs of ice= 1
> gallon of water}.
>
> An hour before cooking take the bird out and thoroughly wash it down with
> cold water for at least 30 seconds.
>
> You can place aromatics like garlic heads, apples, citrus in the cavity of
> the bird for the cooking. I like also to place orange slices between skin
> and meat. This works for either chickens or turkeys.
>
> If you eliminate the brine (salt and water) the rest of the recipe makes an
> excellent marinade for grilled chicken.
>
> The Fat Man's Chicken Kickin' Brine (I double the quantities for a turkey)
>
> 1 gallon water
> 5/8 cups pickling salt.
> 1 1/2 tbs light brown sugar
> 1 1/2 tbs garlic powder
> 1/2 tbs chili powder
> 1/2 tbs ground sage
> 1 tbs crushed red pepper
> 1/2 tbs fresh black pepper
> 2 whole bay leaves
> 1/2 tbs old bay seasoning
> 1 tbs Italian seasoning
>
> Combine all the ingredients in a stock pot. Bring to a boil, turn heat down
> to a simmer. Simmer and stir frequently until all the ingredients are
> dissolved.
>
> Allow to cool to room temperature before immersing the meat.
>
> When you're ready to cook, drain and rinse the bird thoroughly; pat dry. If
> you have time and like crispy skin, put the dry bird back in the 'fridge for
> a while, uncovered.
>
> Season again (no more salt please!) - you won't need butter or oil under the
> skin to keep it moist, but if you like the flavor, by all means. Slices of
> citrus under the skin, especially with the citrus brine above, are good.
>
> --
> Davewww.davebbq.com

Dave, thanks for posting the heads up on the big bird for the upcoming
blessed event.
I might ask:
While the brine instructions are absolutely useful, I have to surmise
that most of the turkeys available in supermarkets, WH clubs and most
retailers are pre-brined; with the addition of an 8% ,12%, or 15% or
whatever solution of "natural juices", etc. much of which is salted
water.

In the absence of non-adulterated turkeys from many of our markets,
wouldn't you figure that many of the brines such as Hounds should be
pared back especially from their suggested salt content?
My take: would to be leave most flavor elements as they are called for
such as the citrus, spices and herbs, but salt and maybe sugar limited
to 1/3 cup or so per gallon of brine if roasting a pre-brined bird.
My gut tells me that with the use of pre-brined birds and the
additional brines as described, would lead to a bird thats just too
damned salty.

Your thoughts?

Pierre

Pierre wrote:

> Dave, thanks for posting the heads up on the big bird for the upcoming
> blessed event.
> I might ask:
> While the brine instructions are absolutely useful, I have to surmise
> that most of the turkeys available in supermarkets, WH clubs and most
> retailers are pre-brined; with the addition of an 8% ,12%, or 15% or
> whatever solution of "natural juices", etc. much of which is salted
> water.

Many are pre-injected, but it is easy to find those which aren't. Even
Butterball offers 'non-juiced', 'non-basted' birds. The instructions on the
Virtual Bullet website do specifically mention *not* to use a 'juiced-up'
bird.

> In the absence of non-adulterated turkeys from many of our markets,

Sorry, but that presumption is incorrect.

> wouldn't you figure that many of the brines such as Hounds should be
> pared back especially from their suggested salt content?

The whole point of your post is the thesis that you can't fined turkeys
which are juiced up. That is incorrect. You just need to pick one to suit
your needs.

> My take: would to be leave most flavor elements as they are called for
> such as the citrus, spices and herbs, but salt and maybe sugar limited
> to 1/3 cup or so per gallon of brine if roasting a pre-brined bird.
> My gut tells me that with the use of pre-brined birds and the
> additional brines as described, would lead to a bird thats just too
> damned salty.
>
> Your thoughts?

Interleaved above. I would simply reiterate that if you want to brine a
turkey, choose a 'non-juiced' bird. If you choose one that is 'juiced', you
can still brine it, but it would be a waste of time.

The salts and sugars are simply osmotic rmechanisms to force more fluids
into the intercellular spaces of the meat. A 'juiced' bird is going to
balance out the fluids during osmosis of fluids. In other words, all that
injected solution is going to either remain put and there will be no
additional fluid uptake by the bird, or it will lose some of that fluid out
of the bird. I doubt it would create a 'saltier' bird, since there is only
so much salt that can remain within these spaces.

Most complaints of a 'salty tasting' bird from brining are actually the
result of folks not rinsing their birds after brining, or not rinsing them
thourougly enough.


--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

On Nov 5, 11:04 am, "Dave Bugg" > wrote:
> Pierre wrote:
> > Dave, thanks for posting the heads up on the big bird for the upcoming
> > blessed event.
> > I might ask:
> > While the brine instructions are absolutely useful, I have to surmise
> > that most of the turkeys available in supermarkets, WH clubs and most
> > retailers are pre-brined; with the addition of an 8% ,12%, or 15% or
> > whatever solution of "natural juices", etc. much of which is salted
> > water.
>
> Many are pre-injected, but it is easy to find those which aren't. Even
> Butterball offers 'non-juiced', 'non-basted' birds. The instructions on the
> Virtual Bullet website do specifically mention *not* to use a 'juiced-up'
> bird.
>
> > In the absence of non-adulterated turkeys from many of our markets,
>
> Sorry, but that presumption is incorrect.
>
> > wouldn't you figure that many of the brines such as Hounds should be
> > pared back especially from their suggested salt content?
>
> The whole point of your post is the thesis that you can't fined turkeys
> which are juiced up. That is incorrect. You just need to pick one to suit
> your needs.
>
> > My take: would to be leave most flavor elements as they are called for
> > such as the citrus, spices and herbs, but salt and maybe sugar limited
> > to 1/3 cup or so per gallon of brine if roasting a pre-brined bird.
> > My gut tells me that with the use of pre-brined birds and the
> > additional brines as described, would lead to a bird thats just too
> > damned salty.
>
> > Your thoughts?
>
> Interleaved above. I would simply reiterate that if you want to brine a
> turkey, choose a 'non-juiced' bird. If you choose one that is 'juiced', you
> can still brine it, but it would be a waste of time.
>
> The salts and sugars are simply osmotic rmechanisms to force more fluids
> into the intercellular spaces of the meat. A 'juiced' bird is going to
> balance out the fluids during osmosis of fluids. In other words, all that
> injected solution is going to either remain put and there will be no
> additional fluid uptake by the bird, or it will lose some of that fluid out
> of the bird. I doubt it would create a 'saltier' bird, since there is only
> so much salt that can remain within these spaces.
>
> Most complaints of a 'salty tasting' bird from brining are actually the
> result of folks not rinsing their birds after brining, or not rinsing them
> thourougly enough.
>
> --
> Davewww.davebbq.com

Thanks Dave.

Pierre

Pierre wrote:

> Thanks Dave.

You're welcome, Pierre.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

On 5-Nov-2007, "Dave Bugg" > wrote:

> Pierre wrote:
>
> > Dave, thanks for posting the heads up on the big bird for the upcoming
> > blessed event.

<snip a bunch>

> >
> > Your thoughts?
>
> Interleaved above. I would simply reiterate that if you want to brine a
> turkey, choose a 'non-juiced' bird. If you choose one that is 'juiced',
> you
> can still brine it, but it would be a waste of time.
>
> The salts and sugars are simply osmotic rmechanisms to force more fluids
> into the intercellular spaces of the meat. A 'juiced' bird is going to
> balance out the fluids during osmosis of fluids. In other words, all that
> injected solution is going to either remain put and there will be no
> additional fluid uptake by the bird, or it will lose some of that fluid
> out
> of the bird. I doubt it would create a 'saltier' bird, since there is only
>
> so much salt that can remain within these spaces.
>
> Most complaints of a 'salty tasting' bird from brining are actually the
> result of folks not rinsing their birds after brining, or not rinsing them
>
> thourougly enough.
>
>
> --
> Dave
> www.davebbq.com

I have used up two batches of Hound's brine and one of TFM®. I
have yet to produce a salty bird. I did produce one chicken that
was overly strong with citrus flavor. I packed the cavity of that one
with citrus chunks from the brine. That said, I have never cooked
a turkey and I've never checked to see if a bird was pre-brined.
Somewhere, in the last couple of years, someone posted a very
good description of the chemistry that takes place in the brining
process. It was(is) a great deal different then a simple soaking
in salty water would imply. From my experience, I'm guessing
that Dave is entirely correct about brining a bird that's already
pumped up. It just doesn't have much effect as far as saltiness
goes.

I too have seen the posts describing salty birds. I just have
never produced one. (I do thoroughly wash brined birds before
cooking them). I always rub my birds with something and that
something always contains yet more salt.

To summarize my opinion:

If you like brined birds and the bird in your hand is questionable,
brine it anyway. You may be wasting your time, but you won't
hurt it. Do wash your bird thoroughly after brining.

--
Brick(Youth is wasted on young people)

"Dave Bugg" > wrote in
:

> Hound's Citrus Brine
>
d.
>
>
> --
> Dave
> www.davebbq.com
>
>

Thanks Dave filed this one away to try at xmas