"Dave Bell" > wrote in message
ea.net...
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2004, graham wrote:
>
> > Your problems with wheat flour are probably due to the gluten content
which
> > is much lower in spelt. Unfortunately, it is this ingredient that
allows
> > bread to rise and trap the carbon dioxide. High gluten bread flours are
too
> > strong for cakes etc., and so cake flour has a low gluten content.
Spelt
> > has a low gluten content so makes lousy bread, unless mixed with some
normal
> > wheat flour for support.
> > Graham
>
> Spelt does of course contain gluten, and I'm not so sure there is less of
> it, per se, but I understand it is more fragile, therefore less suitable
> for breads. Another side of the gluten/allergy issue is that there are two
> proteins that form the gluten, when worked in the presence of water. I am
> given to understand that spelt and wheat share one of the two identically,
> but the other protein differs between them. It may be the latter protein
> that I am primarily allergic to...
>
> At any rate, I do want to avoid adding wheat flour, just to increase the
> gluten. What other ways are there to "toughen" a bread dough? Increased
> working/kneading time, perhaps?
>
> Dave
You could try it, I suppose. However, I've never had much success with
spelt in other than a minor proportion of the total flour content. High
spelt content breads have, for me, always turned out cakey.
Repost on alt.bread.recipes where you might get more specialised answers.
There are several experts there who might be able to help.
Graham

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, graham wrote:

> You could try it, I suppose. However, I've never had much success with
> spelt in other than a minor proportion of the total flour content. High
> spelt content breads have, for me, always turned out cakey.
> Repost on alt.bread.recipes where you might get more specialised answers.
> There are several experts there who might be able to help.
> Graham

Yhanks, I'll try that. And yes, that's pretty much what happens with my
breads. Cakey, and dense at that. Is it the same sort of mechanism that
causes cookies to collapse, too?

Dave

"Dave Bell" > wrote in message
ea.net...
> On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, graham wrote:
>
> > You could try it, I suppose. However, I've never had much success with
> > spelt in other than a minor proportion of the total flour content. High
> > spelt content breads have, for me, always turned out cakey.
> > Repost on alt.bread.recipes where you might get more specialised
answers.
> > There are several experts there who might be able to help.
> > Graham
>
> Yhanks, I'll try that. And yes, that's pretty much what happens with my
> breads. Cakey, and dense at that. Is it the same sort of mechanism that
> causes cookies to collapse, too?
>
I don't know. On a.b.r. there are a couple of professional bakers who might
be able to answer this one.
Graham

> I don't know. On a.b.r. there are a couple of professional bakers who
might
> be able to answer this one.
> Graham

Spelt is considered an ancestor to modern wheat. Like wheat, it is milled
into whole grain and white flour. Spelt proteins do form gluten, but spelt
gluten is weak and very easily overworked. Spelt bread dough should be
mixed for ony a short period of time (just until wet and uniform) to avoid
overworking and tearing the gluten. Spelt has a lower water absorption
value than wheat, so less water is needed when forming batters and doughs.
YES...do expect a lower volume and stronger flavour from baked goods with
spelt.

one last thing i forgot, once you have punch the dough, here is where you
can tightly shape it, but again be sure not to overwork it, then proof it
while shaped.

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Charles Baker wrote:

> one last thing i forgot, once you have punch the dough, here is where you
> can tightly shape it, but again be sure not to overwork it, then proof it
> while shaped.

Thanks, Charles! Your first reply crossed my reading your other notes.
So, it's not a matter of working the dough longer, to toughen the gluten,
but shorter, to avoid overworking it. I have found it to require less
water, as you said. I'll try again!

Dave

"Dave Bell" > wrote in message
rea.net...
> On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Charles Baker wrote:
>
> > one last thing i forgot, once you have punch the dough, here is where
you
> > can tightly shape it, but again be sure not to overwork it, then proof
it
> > while shaped.
>
> Thanks, Charles! Your first reply crossed my reading your other notes.
> So, it's not a matter of working the dough longer, to toughen the gluten,
> but shorter, to avoid overworking it. I have found it to require less
> water, as you said. I'll try again!
>
> Dave

There is a recipe for spelt bread in "The Bread Book" by Linda Collister &
Anthony Blake, an excellent book. The method used produces about as holey a
bread as this flour will make.
HTH
Graham

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, graham wrote:

> There is a recipe for spelt bread in "The Bread Book" by Linda Collister &
> Anthony Blake, an excellent book. The method used produces about as holey a
> bread as this flour will make.
> HTH
> Graham

I'll check the library, thank you!

Dave

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, graham wrote:

> There is a recipe for spelt bread in "The Bread Book" by Linda Collister &
> Anthony Blake, an excellent book. The method used produces about as holey a
> bread as this flour will make.
> HTH
> Graham

Well - not at all a bad bread! I tried a batch this evening, and was quite
pleased. The texture and "holiness" are very good, better than I have ever
encountered with Spelt. I think I will let it ferment a bit longer next
time, possibly increase the yeast a bit (+50%?), and add some sugar. The
flavor of the loaf is delicate, and could use a little more yeastiness,
but a very satisfactiry start! I did follow Charles' suggestion, to leave
the salt out until after the first rise. The extra working required to
stir it in didn't seem to cause any problems, and if I understand it
correctly, this helps in the rise and gluten build-up.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Dave

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, graham wrote:

> There is a recipe for spelt bread in "The Bread Book" by Linda Collister &
> Anthony Blake, an excellent book. The method used produces about as holey a
> bread as this flour will make.
> HTH
> Graham

This recipe worked out very well, particularly for a near first attempt! I
followed Collister's insstructions (originally adapted from Doves Farm's
recipe) closely, except making 3 smaller loaves, in 3x5x8" tins. Nice
crumb, with small only bubbles, but a good texture and light flavor. I put
a couple of pics of the result up:

http://www.zippyimages.com/77644.html
http://www.zippyimages.com/77645.html

Dave

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, graham wrote:

> There is a recipe for spelt bread in "The Bread Book" by Linda Collister &
> Anthony Blake, an excellent book. The method used produces about as holey a
> bread as this flour will make.
> HTH
> Graham

Well - not at all a bad bread! I tried a batch this evening, and was quite
pleased. The texture and "holiness" are very good, better than I have ever
encountered with Spelt. I think I will let it ferment a bit longer next
time, possibly increase the yeast a bit (+50%?), and add some sugar. The
flavor of the loaf is delicate, and could use a little more yeastiness,
but a very satisfactiry start! I did follow Charles' suggestion, to leave
the salt out until after the first rise. The extra working required to
stir it in didn't seem to cause any problems, and if I understand it
correctly, this helps in the rise and gluten build-up.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Dave

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, graham wrote:

> There is a recipe for spelt bread in "The Bread Book" by Linda Collister &
> Anthony Blake, an excellent book. The method used produces about as holey a
> bread as this flour will make.
> HTH
> Graham

This recipe worked out very well, particularly for a near first attempt! I
followed Collister's insstructions (originally adapted from Doves Farm's
recipe) closely, except making 3 smaller loaves, in 3x5x8" tins. Nice
crumb, with small only bubbles, but a good texture and light flavor. I put
a couple of pics of the result up:

http://www.zippyimages.com/77644.html
http://www.zippyimages.com/77645.html

Dave

"Dave Bell" > wrote in message
rea.net...
> On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Charles Baker wrote:
>
> > one last thing i forgot, once you have punch the dough, here is where
you
> > can tightly shape it, but again be sure not to overwork it, then proof
it
> > while shaped.
>
> Thanks, Charles! Your first reply crossed my reading your other notes.
> So, it's not a matter of working the dough longer, to toughen the gluten,
> but shorter, to avoid overworking it. I have found it to require less
> water, as you said. I'll try again!
>
> Dave

There is a recipe for spelt bread in "The Bread Book" by Linda Collister &
Anthony Blake, an excellent book. The method used produces about as holey a
bread as this flour will make.
HTH
Graham

one last thing i forgot, once you have punch the dough, here is where you
can tightly shape it, but again be sure not to overwork it, then proof it
while shaped.

> I don't know. On a.b.r. there are a couple of professional bakers who
might
> be able to answer this one.
> Graham

Spelt is considered an ancestor to modern wheat. Like wheat, it is milled
into whole grain and white flour. Spelt proteins do form gluten, but spelt
gluten is weak and very easily overworked. Spelt bread dough should be
mixed for ony a short period of time (just until wet and uniform) to avoid
overworking and tearing the gluten. Spelt has a lower water absorption
value than wheat, so less water is needed when forming batters and doughs.
YES...do expect a lower volume and stronger flavour from baked goods with
spelt.