Baking (rec.food.baking) For bakers, would-be bakers, and fans and consumers of breads, pastries, cakes, pies, cookies, crackers, bagels, and other items commonly found in a bakery. Includes all methods of preparation, both conventional and not.

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Old 27-06-2004, 09:43 PM
Joe B
 
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Default All purpose --> bread flour substitution, what to adjust?

I have a dinner roll recipe that calls for about 2 cups of all purpose
flour. I've made the recipe and like it. I want to try it using
bread flour instead of all purpose to see if it will be
heartier/chewier. First question: is this a correct assumption?
Second question: if I do the substitution, will I need to adjust
anything else to compensate, like the amount of water or yeast?

Thanks,
Chris

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Old 27-06-2004, 10:09 PM
Kenneth
 
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Default All purpose --> bread flour substitution, what to adjust?

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 20:43:49 GMT, Joe B
wrote:

I have a dinner roll recipe that calls for about 2 cups of all purpose
flour. I've made the recipe and like it. I want to try it using
bread flour instead of all purpose to see if it will be
heartier/chewier. First question: is this a correct assumption?
Second question: if I do the substitution, will I need to adjust
anything else to compensate, like the amount of water or yeast?

Thanks,
Chris


Hi Chris,

(At least in the US) flour is not subject to strict grading that
defines the characteristics associated with labels such as "bread
flour" or " all purpose." As a result, (for example) King Arthur All
Purpose is higher in protein than the Bread flour of other millers.

That said, increasing the protein level of the flour you use for the
rolls will make them chewier, but, at the expense of some flavor.
Unless you were doing serious production, it would probably not be
worth making any other changes. You might find that it takes a bit
more water to get the same feel in the dough.

Have fun,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
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Old 28-06-2004, 01:59 AM
Vox Humana
 
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Default All purpose --> bread flour substitution, what to adjust?


"Joe B" wrote in message
...
I have a dinner roll recipe that calls for about 2 cups of all purpose
flour. I've made the recipe and like it. I want to try it using
bread flour instead of all purpose to see if it will be
heartier/chewier. First question: is this a correct assumption?
Second question: if I do the substitution, will I need to adjust
anything else to compensate, like the amount of water or yeast?


It is somewhat hard to say. Some AP flour is rather high in gluten. If you
have AP made from Canadian wheat, it may be at least as high as bread flour
made by some US mills. That aside, if you use higher gluten wheat, the
product should be chewier. I'm not sure what hearty means. To some that
might mean more dense. High gluten flour produces dough that rises well.
The product might have a chewy crust, but the crumb might be lighter. Steam
also influences the texture of the crust. High gluten flour binds more
water than low gluten flour. You will have to compensate for that by feel.
Flour is cheap. I would recommend that you make a batch with each type of
flour and compare the two.


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Old 28-06-2004, 02:43 AM
alzelt
 
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Default All purpose --> bread flour substitution, what to adjust?



Joe B wrote:
I have a dinner roll recipe that calls for about 2 cups of all purpose
flour. I've made the recipe and like it. I want to try it using
bread flour instead of all purpose to see if it will be
heartier/chewier. First question: is this a correct assumption?
Second question: if I do the substitution, will I need to adjust
anything else to compensate, like the amount of water or yeast?

Thanks,
Chris

I would prefer you opting in for a recipe for hearty rolls instead. The
purpose of dinner rolls are as an accompaniment to dinner.

If you think about a baguette in the AM, you get an idea of what a
hearty bread can be. In this case, it is the center, soul, of the meal.
You can try what I do. I take a favorite baguette recipe and shape the
dough into 2.5oz balls. This will work well, and achieve what you want.
--
Alan

"If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and
avoid the people, you might better stay home."
--James Michener

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Old 29-06-2004, 05:35 AM
Joe Yudelson
 
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Default All purpose --> bread flour substitution, what to adjust?

Hi: The main change is that ;with bread flour, you cannot do an adequate
job of kneading by hand. You must use a mixer (Kitchen Aid) or a bread
making machine.

Joe
"Joe B" wrote in message
...
I have a dinner roll recipe that calls for about 2 cups of all purpose
flour. I've made the recipe and like it. I want to try it using
bread flour instead of all purpose to see if it will be
heartier/chewier. First question: is this a correct assumption?
Second question: if I do the substitution, will I need to adjust
anything else to compensate, like the amount of water or yeast?

Thanks,
Chris





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Old 29-06-2004, 12:50 PM
Kenneth
 
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Default All purpose --> bread flour substitution, what to adjust?

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 04:35:41 GMT, "Joe Yudelson"
wrote:

Hi: The main change is that ;with bread flour, you cannot do an adequate
job of kneading by hand. You must use a mixer (Kitchen Aid) or a bread
making machine.


Howdy,

I offer (respectfully) that your comment is simply not true.

In fact, fine bread can be made with bread flour with no kneading at
all. The gluten can be formed by kneading, chemical additions and also
by hydration alone. That last means, by mixing the wet and dry
ingredients just enough to be sure that there are no dry pockets...
then waiting.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
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Old 07-07-2004, 04:09 PM
Charles Baker
 
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Default All purpose --> bread flour substitution

BREAD FLOUR is milled from either hard red spring or hard red winter wheat.
It is high in protein (typically 11.5 to 13.5% protein) that forms
good-quality gluten, essential for high volume and fine crumb in
yeast-raised baked goods. Bread flour can be purchsed bleached or
unbleached. Sometimes it contains added malted barley flour to provide for
better yeast fermentation, dough handling, and shelf life. Bread flour is
typically used for pan breads, rolls, croissants, and sweet yeast doughs.

ALL PURPOSE (AP) FLOUR is not always used by professional pastry chefs.
However, it is sold in the foodservice industry as H&R Flour, which stands
for Hotel and Restaurant Flour. AP typically has between 9.5 to 11.5%
protein, but this can vary with the brand. While AP flour is often made
from a blend of hard and soft wheat, this is not always the case. Some
brands, like King Arthur flour, are made entirely from hard wheat. Other
brands, like White Lily flour, are made entirely from soft wheat. AP flour
comes bleached or unbleached, and may contain added malted barley flour.

Not all professional bakeshops stock AP flour. What should be done if a
formula calls for AP and none is available? For yeast-raised products, use
bread flour instead. Additional water will be needed to develop the gluten.
The dough will handle more easily (won't tear or break as easy), the bread
flour will be higher than if it was mde from AP, and will have a finer crumb
(smaller air cells). The crust will brown more readily and the crumb will
likely be less white. The bread will not stale as fast and expect a slightly
different flavour.

Charles Baker (that is my real last name).


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Old 07-07-2004, 04:09 PM
Charles Baker
 
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Default All purpose --> bread flour substitution

BREAD FLOUR is milled from either hard red spring or hard red winter wheat.
It is high in protein (typically 11.5 to 13.5% protein) that forms
good-quality gluten, essential for high volume and fine crumb in
yeast-raised baked goods. Bread flour can be purchsed bleached or
unbleached. Sometimes it contains added malted barley flour to provide for
better yeast fermentation, dough handling, and shelf life. Bread flour is
typically used for pan breads, rolls, croissants, and sweet yeast doughs.

ALL PURPOSE (AP) FLOUR is not always used by professional pastry chefs.
However, it is sold in the foodservice industry as H&R Flour, which stands
for Hotel and Restaurant Flour. AP typically has between 9.5 to 11.5%
protein, but this can vary with the brand. While AP flour is often made
from a blend of hard and soft wheat, this is not always the case. Some
brands, like King Arthur flour, are made entirely from hard wheat. Other
brands, like White Lily flour, are made entirely from soft wheat. AP flour
comes bleached or unbleached, and may contain added malted barley flour.

Not all professional bakeshops stock AP flour. What should be done if a
formula calls for AP and none is available? For yeast-raised products, use
bread flour instead. Additional water will be needed to develop the gluten.
The dough will handle more easily (won't tear or break as easy), the bread
flour will be higher than if it was mde from AP, and will have a finer crumb
(smaller air cells). The crust will brown more readily and the crumb will
likely be less white. The bread will not stale as fast and expect a slightly
different flavour.

Charles Baker (that is my real last name).


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Old 07-07-2004, 05:31 PM
Dave Bell
 
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Default All purpose --> bread flour substitution

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Charles Baker wrote:

BREAD FLOUR is milled from either hard red spring or hard red winter wheat.
It is high in protein (typically 11.5 to 13.5% protein) that forms

ALL PURPOSE (AP) FLOUR is not always used by professional pastry chefs.
However, it is sold in the foodservice industry as H&R Flour, which stands
for Hotel and Restaurant Flour. AP typically has between 9.5 to 11.5%
protein, but this can vary with the brand. While AP flour is often made

Charles Baker (that is my real last name).


As you may have seen in a recent thread, I have been trying to find good
traditional bread recipes I can adapt to using White Spelt flour. The main
problem I have seems to be a weak gluten, and presumably, low protein
level. I checked the flour analysis for the VitaSpelt product I use, and
the total protein seems quite reasonable, 13.3% for white, and 14.3% for
whole grain. ( http://www.purityfoods.com/index2.html )

Is this directly comparable to the numbers above? Any thoughts on
improving my results with Spelt yeast breads?

Thanks!

Dave


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