"Allan Adler" > wrote in message
...
>
> N.Thornton described a way to make your own stove top oven and answered
> some of my questions about it, but I am still confused about it.
>
> I was contemplating an arrangement of the following sort:
> Take a large, deep cast iron sauce pan, put a wok base inside it,
> set a small cookie sheet (I've never actually seen them so smalll)
> or aluminum pie plate on the wok base, cover it and heat it on the
> stove to preheat. Then put dough in the cookie sheet or pie plate,
> cover and heat it.
>
> Is that an acceptable oven? And is this really better than a toaster oven?
>
> I just did a google search for "stovetop oven". One of the hits is
> http://www.asseenontvandmore.com/baistov.html
> which sells one for about $30. I don't know if they are any good for
> baking bread or rolls nor whether they are any better than any of the
> other options we've mentioned for baking without a conventional oven.

I would get an electric roaster before trying to rig a stove top oven. I
think it would be more satisfactory and far less dangerous. Here is an
example:
http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html...sin=B0000A6037

Karl Sigerist Sr© > wrote in message >...
> "Vox Humana" wrote in message
> > "Allan Adler" wrote in message

> > > N.Thornton described a way to make your own stove top oven and answered
> > > some of my questions about it, but I am still confused about it.
> > >
> > > I was contemplating an arrangement of the following sort:
> > > Take a large, deep cast iron sauce pan, put a wok base inside it,
> > > set a small cookie sheet (I've never actually seen them so smalll)
> > > or aluminum pie plate on the wok base, cover it and heat it on the
> > > stove to preheat. Then put dough in the cookie sheet or pie plate,
> > > cover and heat it.
> > >
> > > Is that an acceptable oven? And is this really better than a toaster
> oven?
> > >
> > > I just did a google search for "stovetop oven". One of the hits is
> > > http://www.asseenontvandmore.com/baistov.html
> > > which sells one for about $30. I don't know if they are any good for
> > > baking bread or rolls nor whether they are any better than any of the
> > > other options we've mentioned for baking without a conventional oven.
> >
> > I would get an electric roaster before trying to rig a stove top oven. I
> > think it would be more satisfactory and far less dangerous. Here is an
> > example:
> > http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html...sin=B0000A6037
> >
> >
> Why not use a simple oven like this, we used one for baking, and a host
> of other to be fryed, heating up things over 20 years until he (it?) finally
> died


I can only guess that maybe the OP does not have the money for an
oven. Having used a small toaster sized one myself I would say they
are almost useless. A proper oven, even a table top one, doesnt come
for under £100 here.

I would not consider using a wok base, as all parts of the apparatus
must be perfectly stable. Any instability is just dangerous.

The stovetop link looks very like a pan with a wire tray in it to me.

Paraffin cookers, which were once common, used a tin box with a wire
tray in as an oven, and they worked quite acceptably. I've used a
praffin cooker too, there are a few still in existence - but I dont
recommend them, I think the fume aspect of them is unsafe, but they
cook fine.

Or if the OP wants to get a bit more adventurous how about a solar
cooker? Theyre easy to make, and if you get a bit of scrap glass they
can be assembled at no cost, and can reach 160C in British weather
without concentration.

Home made cookers may involve risks, depending on your design etc, so
I'm not recommending any, just letting you know there are various
options to look into.


Regards, NT

"N. Thornton" > wrote in message
m...
> Karl Sigerist Sr© > wrote in message
>...
> > "Vox Humana" wrote in message
> > > "Allan Adler" wrote in message
>
> > > > N.Thornton described a way to make your own stove top oven and
answered
> > > > some of my questions about it, but I am still confused about it.
> > > >
> > > > I was contemplating an arrangement of the following sort:
> > > > Take a large, deep cast iron sauce pan, put a wok base inside it,
> > > > set a small cookie sheet (I've never actually seen them so smalll)
> > > > or aluminum pie plate on the wok base, cover it and heat it on the
> > > > stove to preheat. Then put dough in the cookie sheet or pie plate,
> > > > cover and heat it.
> > > >
> > > > Is that an acceptable oven? And is this really better than a toaster
> > oven?
> > > >
> > > > I just did a google search for "stovetop oven". One of the hits is
> > > > http://www.asseenontvandmore.com/baistov.html
> > > > which sells one for about $30. I don't know if they are any good for
> > > > baking bread or rolls nor whether they are any better than any of
the
> > > > other options we've mentioned for baking without a conventional
oven.
> > >
> > > I would get an electric roaster before trying to rig a stove top oven.
I
> > > think it would be more satisfactory and far less dangerous. Here is
an
> > > example:
> > >
http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html...sin=B0000A6037
> > >
> > >
> > Why not use a simple oven like this, we used one for baking, and a host
> > of other to be fryed, heating up things over 20 years until he (it?)
finally
> > died
>
>
> I can only guess that maybe the OP does not have the money for an
> oven. Having used a small toaster sized one myself I would say they
> are almost useless. A proper oven, even a table top one, doesnt come
> for under £100 here.

Is the OP in the UK? If so then it would be good to know as I have no
recommendations. If not, then I would suggest getting the roaster. A new
one can be had for under $40 and I suppose that you could find one at a
second-hand shop or on Ebay for less. They do work for baking. Many people
use them around the holidays for baking pies and roasting meat while their
primary oven is being used for other things.

(N. Thornton) writes:

> I can only guess that maybe the OP does not have the money for an
> oven.

I have a very small kitchen. It has a stove top but underneath there is
no oven. Instead there is a little refrigerator. There is no room for
an oven. That is the main reason why I don't have one and will not be
purchasing one.

However, N.Thornton is correct in guessing that, even if I had room for
an oven, I probably don't have money for one. One of the reasons I'm now
investing so much effort in cooking is to reduce my food costs. I find
it makes a big difference: in the month of April, which is when this
experiment started, I've managed to keep my food expenditures below 50
dollars for the entire month. Also, I have temperamental study habits,
one of which is to study in coffee shops and now I can't afford to do so.
I particularly like to enjoy a muffin with a cup of coffee, but the cost
of that adds up to a significant figure if I do it every day, even if I
only consume one muffin and one cup of coffee, and I do need to study
every day. Moreover, as I need to study for several hours, that low
level of consumption would tend to enrage the proprietors and diminish
their willingness to accept with good grace my studying there, so in
practice the costs of these study habits are higher. So, I've recently
stopped studying in coffee shops and that is interfering with my studying.
I'm hoping that when I can make my own fat-free muffins from scratch and
have reinvented myself in a few other ways, I'll be able to put in as much
time studying as I did formerly. I've also checked supermarkets and have
found that fat-free muffins are not much cheaper there.

Thanks for the comparisons of various alternatives for ovens.

Ignorantly,
Allan Adler


************************************************** **************************
* *
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT Artificial *
* Intelligence Lab. My actions and comments do not reflect *
* in any way on MIT. Moreover, I am nowhere near the Boston *
* metropolitan area. *
* *
************************************************** **************************

"Allan Adler" > wrote in message
...
> (N. Thornton) writes:
>
> > I can only guess that maybe the OP does not have the money for an
> > oven.
>
> I have a very small kitchen. It has a stove top but underneath there is
> no oven. Instead there is a little refrigerator. There is no room for
> an oven. That is the main reason why I don't have one and will not be
> purchasing one.

I once found a wonderful microwave oven next to a dumpster. The fuse had
blown and apparently the owner didn't know enough to change it. You might
find an oven at a garage sale or secondhand store for next to nothing.
Cruising an affluent neighborhood the day before trash day may also be
productive!

"Vox Humana" > writes:

> I once found a wonderful microwave oven next to a dumpster. The fuse had
> blown and apparently the owner didn't know enough to change it. You might
> find an oven at a garage sale or secondhand store for next to nothing.
> Cruising an affluent neighborhood the day before trash day may also be
> productive!

As I said, I don't have room for an oven.

I agree, however, that garage sales, dumpsters, etc. are a wonderful source
of unexpected goods. I found that in Boston, the end of August was a
particularly good time to see what people had thrown out, since most leases
started on Sept.1. One Aug.31, I found in people's trash a discarded 1826
edition of Tacitus, two staplers, a monopoly set, a 35 mm camera, a record
player and several television sets. Following some suggestions in an
electronics magazine, I managed to connect the speaker wires of the
record player to one of the TV sets in such a way that patterns would
appear on the TV screen when I played music.

When I was hanging out at certain university about 20 years ago, one of the
math graduate students was an expert on how to scavenge discarded food from
supermarket dumpsters and to decide whether it was still fit for human
consumption. He once invited me and a few other people to dinner and, as
I didn't remember until afterwards that he practiced this art, I accepted.
But the food was quite good. Where I live now, I see people practicing this
art practically every day.

Allan Adler


************************************************** **************************
* *
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT Artificial *
* Intelligence Lab. My actions and comments do not reflect *
* in any way on MIT. Moreover, I am nowhere near the Boston *
* metropolitan area. *
* *
************************************************** **************************

On 27 Apr 2004 08:16:27 -0400
Allan Adler > wrote:

>
> N.Thornton described a way to make your own stove top oven and
> answered some of my questions about it, but I am still confused about
> it.
>
> I was contemplating an arrangement of the following sort:
> Take a large, deep cast iron sauce pan, put a wok base inside it,
> set a small cookie sheet (I've never actually seen them so smalll)
> or aluminum pie plate on the wok base, cover it and heat it on the
> stove to preheat. Then put dough in the cookie sheet or pie plate,
> cover and heat it.

I've had brownies baked in a cardboard box lined with tinfoil and
heated with hot coals, so i don't see why not.

I've seen pans that small, they're for toaster-ovens. Go big enough
and you could use a quarter sheet pan, or a pan intended for pizza.

Rather than a cast iron pan, you might consider a cast iron dutch
oven. They Don't Call It An Oven For Nothing. They come in sizes ranging
from useless ornamental novelty to man-hole cover. Lodge is a recognized
brand, and the last manufactured in the states, but really it doesn't
matter. Find one you like. It's all sand-cast from the same
hundreds-of-years-old designs. Mexican and taiwanese stuff is fine -
sometimes excellent. Ironically enough, my favorite griddle was made in
taiwan but says "mexican fiesta" on the bottom. If you plan to use it
outside some day, get one with legs - this won't prevent it working on
the stove top. Make sure you follow normal recommendations for the
cleaning and seasoning of new cast iron prior to use.

Then you can just use dutch oven recipes, though you may have to
experiment with conversion ratios for how hot to get it on the stove and
for how long vs. how many coals to use.

> Is that an acceptable oven? And is this really better than a toaster
> oven?

Depends what you think is 'acceptable'

You're not going to be able to follow the directions in the book or
on the box, you're going to be dealing with a situation where you can't
accurately control the temperature over a period of time.

Dutch oven cooking is generally the art of predicting a curve of
rising and then falling temperature, rather than the modern regulated
temperature sort of baking.

Better than a toaster oven? Depends what metrics you use for
'better'. Might be more fun experimentation. AB says that in college he
had an apartment where the only part of the range that worked was the
broiler, and the only cooking vessel he had was a 10" cast iron
frying pan, and he did alright.

Allan Adler > writes:

>Newsgroups: rec.food.baking
>Subject: ad hoc oven
>From: Allan Adler >
>Date: 27 Apr 2004 08:16:27 -0400
>
>N.Thornton described a way to make your own stove top oven and answered
>some of my questions about it, but I am still confused about it.
>
>I was contemplating an arrangement of the following sort:
>Take a large, deep cast iron sauce pan, put a wok base inside it,
>set a small cookie sheet (I've never actually seen them so smalll)
>or aluminum pie plate on the wok base, cover it and heat it on the
>stove to preheat. Then put dough in the cookie sheet or pie plate,
>cover and heat it.

People seem to forget that prior to the vast middle-class expansion
following World War II, many people lived in places where the only
cooking appliance was a gas "hot plate" burner. Here is an
example of one of these devices:

http://www.griswoldcastiron.com/item....asp?ItemID=88

Anyway, in the 1950s, even in homes which had modern gas or electric
ranges, the small stove-top oven -- often called a "potato baker"
-- was not uncommon. It was more economical to use than heating
a large oven just to bake a couple of potatoes. Also, in summer,
the kitchen was a little bit cooler if one did not have to use the
big oven on in the stove.

The stove top oven consisted of a shallow metal pan with a
perferated disk which was placed inside and which held the food
about 3/4 inch above the bottom of the pan. There was a domed
metal lid which was then placed over the top. Fancy models
even had an oven thermometer built into the domed top so that
one could regulate the temperature by adjusting the gas flame
beneath.

----

Wow! I just did a search for "potato baker" on Google and immediately
came up with a contemporary version for sale by the catalog merchant
Walter Drake Co. for about $10. Go to http://www.wdrake.com and
search for item number 1003023

"Stove Top Potato Baker saves money -- no need to turn
on the oven to bake a couple of potatoes! Enjoy crisp
and crunchy outsides with light and fluffy middles.
Warms bread, biscuits or muffins. Base provides
scorchless "double boiler" cooking. Nonstick stainless
steel; 8-5/8" diameter, 4-3/4" tall."

I'm amazed that this product still exists.

As you can see, the concept is to provide an enclosure with some
form of double bottom so that whatever you're cooking does not sit
on the metal surface in contact with the stove burner. Air must be
able to circulate.

You mentioned muffins. The "Potato Baker" description above says
it can be used for warming muffins, but nothing about using it to
bake them. However, muffins and quick breads are very forgiving
and likely could be baked in a stove-top oven provided that the
oven were large enough to accommodate whatever you're using as a
muffin tin or baking pan. (If your objective is to bake only a
couple of muffins, maybe you could use Pyrex custard cups or small
ramekins. You'd need to experiment.)

Hope this is of some help. Thanks for asking the question because
I really enjoyed thinking about -- and finding -- the potato
baker.

Cheers,
The Old Bear

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:35:21 -0500
(The Old Bear) wrote:


> Wow! I just did a search for "potato baker" on Google and immediately
> came up with a contemporary version for sale by the catalog merchant
> Walter Drake Co. for about $10. Go to http://www.wdrake.com and
> search for item number 1003023
>
> "Stove Top Potato Baker saves money -- no need to turn
> on the oven to bake a couple of potatoes! Enjoy crisp
> and crunchy outsides with light and fluffy middles.
> Warms bread, biscuits or muffins. Base provides
> scorchless "double boiler" cooking. Nonstick stainless
> steel; 8-5/8" diameter, 4-3/4" tall."
>
> I'm amazed that this product still exists.
>
> As you can see, the concept is to provide an enclosure with some
> form of double bottom so that whatever you're cooking does not sit
> on the metal surface in contact with the stove burner. Air must be
> able to circulate.


So what's the difference between this and a sturdy pot + a trivet?