On 5 Nov 2006 05:23:01 -0800, "nogoer" > wrote:

>Im not sure how the dough even got like that. I was very careful to
>make sure i didnt overknead it. Even my worst attempt at pizza dough
>when i first started baking never pulled like that. Is this typical of
>this type of dough or are there ingredients in the recipe that should
>be measured with utmost care to help avoid this situation?
>
>Not that im really that experienced with baking, but i have had a bunch
>of successful attempts with other recipes. At this point i would say my
>biggest issue is getting the dough just right. I have yet to have that
>eureka moment with knowing when i have the correct flour/liquid ratio.
>I usually end up to dry or too wet.

A lot of this depends on what kind of bread you are seeking to
make...if it is a lean, artisan type bread, with a wide open, holey
and glossy interior, they you want *very* slack dough. If you want
close texture and crumb for something like a sandwich bread, you'll
have a more firm dough than for lean breads and perhaps fats, milk or
eggs for richer doughs.

I do a lot of bread baking without recipes and much of what I mix up
is by feel. There are a lot of home bakers who are not comfortable
with that and surely for some specific recipe, if the recipe provider
does not give you a clue as to how the dough should feel as you go
along, it can be tricky if you don't have a lot of experience under
your belt.

Google yourself some past posts from alt.bread.recipes, hang around
there reading things and also check out their FAQ, which is still a
work in progress - a good one always is - and see if you can find
yourself some answers to your questions overall. They are a good and
helpful group over there, but do some reading before you chime in and
I bet you'll find many of your questions already answered.

http://planeguy.mine.nu/bread/index....on=faq&page=88

There is no question, though, if you are working with a bread dough in
shaping and it is springing back at you, the advice given to you by an
OP is correct. Just walk away and let the dough relax enough so that
it does not fight you. (cover the dough so it does not dry out)

There are some wonderful techniques to learn...how to avoid kneading
and rely instead on a simple technique called "stretch and fold,"
finding out how you can deepen the flavor of your breads with a
pre-ferment, how to handle sloppy, high hydration doughs, baking at
high temps, etc.

There are a gazillion web pages on the net that will help you with
baking. One that I like because it is so very welcoming to newbies, is
this:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/

The most important advice I can give you is to learn the basics, then
trust your heart, your hands and you eyes when you work with dough.

Last night I took about a cup of active sourdough starter, mixed it
with a cup of flour & enough water so that it resembled very thick
batter, and let that ferment overnight. This morning, I put it into
the mixer, added white flour, whole wheat, dark rye, spelt, flax seeds
and steel cut oats, enough water to make a soft and sticky dough, (you
touch it and it sticks to your finger), and left it to sit for 20
minutes (look up "autolyse," where you give the flour and water mix a
chance to rest, allow the flour to absorb the water and the gluten to
begin forming), then went back and added my salt, let the mixer run
just a bit to incorporate, and then put the gooey dough into an oiled
bowl. I will let it sit a bit, then stretch and fold the dough a few
times (http://planeguy.mine.nu/bread/index....n=faq&page=129)
and then let it rise, take it out and form it into loaves for another
rise, then bake.

You needn't have the dough in a bowl for stretch and fold, many/most
do it on a board or cloth. I have played with doughs enough to keep it
in the bowl and do this.

Best advice? Have fun and experiment. Flour and water are cheap, and
so is yeast if you buy it in bulk and keep it in the freezer (it keeps
for ages!) Read a few books, such as Peter Reinhart's "The Bread
Baker's Apprentice" and Jeffrey Hamelman's "Bread: A Baker's Book of
Techniques and Recipes" and you will lean a lot and have some fun
while you're learning, too. Check your library or used books sites
online for help.

There is no "one true path" to making bread. Read up, study, practice
and find what works best for you, your kitchen, the flours/grains you
prefer, your climate, etc...you will never find a cheaper hobby, and
one that can be nourishing and fun, too.

Boron

>Thanks djs0302
>
wrote:
>> nogoer wrote:
>> > Im using this recipe trying to make rolls. Twice ive tried the recipe
>> > and both times im extremely frustrated. The first time i thought i
>> > overworked the dough. The second time i made sure i didnt over work the
>> > dough. Both times it was like a trampoline! I couldnt roll out the
>> > rolls either time without them pulling right back. The second time i
>> > left the dough a little wetter so the flaps joined better but the rolls
>> > just melded into one. Ive made bread before without issue, but getting
>> > the dough right has always been a challenge.
>> >
>> *RECIPE SNIPPED*
>>
>> When dough starts acting like that the only thing you can do is walk
>> away from it for about 15 minutes and let the dough relax. The more
>> you try to stretch it the more it's going to spring back. After 15
>> minutes try stretching the dough again. If it starts to spring back
>> STOP and walk away for another 10 minutes.