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caraway or cumin
"Philippe Lemaire (remove oldies)" > wrote in message ... > When use one or the other ? > > Philippe > these two should not be confused, though often are because they look very similar, but their flavour is very different. Cumin is the spice used in most cuisines, typically Asian, but also Mexican. Caraway is typically only a European spice, but may have 'crept' into N. African, like Morocco. Never use caraway in Asian cooking, it is always cumin. Sometimes caraway is confused with black cumin (also called Royal cumin, or Shah jeera). Caraway is not used in Indian cooking. Caraway is used in bread in central Europe, and supposed to be in cheese in Holland, though I have only found the cumin variety. In North Africa, it is said to be a component of harrisa, a hot condiment, but I wonder if this is even correct. To me, caraway does not marry with other spices. Its flavour is similar to mint, the main flavour component is (+)carvone, an optical isomer of (-) carvone, found in some mints. Sometimes, caraway in bread gives the bread a minty flavour. HTH cheers Wazza |
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"Philippe Lemaire (remove oldies)" > wrote in message ... > Wazza wrote: > > "Philippe Lemaire (remove oldies)" > > wrote > > in message ... > >> When use one or the other ? > >> > >> Philippe > >> > > these two should not be confused, though often are because they look > very > > similar, but their flavour is very different. > > Cumin is the spice used in most cuisines, typically Asian, but also > Mexican. > > Caraway is typically only a European spice, but may have 'crept' into N. > > African, like Morocco. > > Never use caraway in Asian cooking, it is always cumin. Sometimes > caraway is > > confused with black cumin (also called Royal cumin, or Shah jeera). > Caraway > > is not used in Indian cooking. Caraway is used in bread in central > Europe, > > and supposed to be in cheese in Holland, though I have only found the > cumin > > variety. In North Africa, it is said to be a component of harrisa, a hot > > condiment, but I wonder if this is even correct. To me, caraway does not > > marry with other spices. Its flavour is similar to mint, the main > flavour > > component is (+)carvone, an optical isomer of (-) carvone, found in some > > mints. Sometimes, caraway in bread gives the bread a minty flavour. > > HTH > > cheers > > Wazza > > Thanks for the explanation ! > > The problem is that, in French, both are cumins... > then you would need to understand the context in which they are used. North of Africa, west of the Middle East, it is probably caraway, in Asia and Mexico it will be cumin, N Africa it could and probably is both. cheers Wazza |
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"Philippe Lemaire (remove oldies)" > wrote
in message ... <snip> > I meant : by reading the bag, you cannot be sure of what you buy... > > Philippe Try here philippe, http://www-ang.kfunigraz.ac.at/~katzer/engl/ they look the same but maybe some of the information might help. DC. |
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DC. wrote:
> "Philippe Lemaire (remove oldies)" > > > wrote in message > ... > <snip> >> I meant : by reading the bag, you cannot be sure of what you >> buy... >> >> Philippe > > Try here philippe, > http://www-ang.kfunigraz.ac.at/~katzer/engl/ they > look the same but maybe some of the information might help. > > DC. And just to complicate things, there are recipes mostly mediterranean that use both cumin and caraway! For example: http://www.globalgourmet.com/food/sp...n/tunisia.html La Tunisia Chicken & Grilled Onions. I never realised how involved the subject was (tho' Katzer does!) -- James V. Silverton Potomac, Maryland, USA |
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"James Silverton" > wrote in message ... > DC. wrote: > > "Philippe Lemaire (remove oldies)" > > > > > wrote in message > > ... > > <snip> > >> I meant : by reading the bag, you cannot be sure of what you > >> buy... > >> > >> Philippe > > > > Try here philippe, > > http://www-ang.kfunigraz.ac.at/~katzer/engl/ they > > look the same but maybe some of the information might help. > > > > DC. > > And just to complicate things, there are recipes mostly > mediterranean that use both cumin and caraway! > > For example: > http://www.globalgourmet.com/food/sp...n/tunisia.html > > La Tunisia Chicken & Grilled Onions. > > I never realised how involved the subject was (tho' Katzer > does!) > > yep, Jim, Katzer and I have exchanged e-mails over cumin (we agreed that caraway was not to be found in Indian cooking) To tell the difference between cumin and caraway is not easy for the uninitiated, but caraway usually has more pronounced stripes down the edge of the fruit (commonly called the seed). I find the taste of caraway objectionable, though liked it in bread in Prague, when I first thought it was mint! There are several spices that are difficult to differentiate, for the unwary, like bay leaves (you call them laurel) and cinnamon leaves (tej patta), or cinnamon and cassia (most of the so-called cinnamon sold in the US is infact cassia!). Caraway is often confused with black cumin, nigella with onion seeds, carom with lovage seeds, and so on. It isn't easy, but it is possible. Salute, Philippe Wazza |
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Philippe Lemaire (remove oldies) wrote:
> Wazza wrote: > >>"Philippe Lemaire (remove oldies)" > > > wrote > >>in message ... >> >>>When use one or the other ? >>> >>>Philippe >>> >> >>these two should not be confused, though often are because they look > > very > >>similar, but their flavour is very different. >>Cumin is the spice used in most cuisines, typically Asian, but also > > Mexican. > >>Caraway is typically only a European spice, but may have 'crept' into N. >>African, like Morocco. >>Never use caraway in Asian cooking, it is always cumin. Sometimes > > caraway is > >>confused with black cumin (also called Royal cumin, or Shah jeera). > > Caraway > >>is not used in Indian cooking. Caraway is used in bread in central > > Europe, > >>and supposed to be in cheese in Holland, though I have only found the > > cumin > >>variety. In North Africa, it is said to be a component of harrisa, a hot >>condiment, but I wonder if this is even correct. To me, caraway does not >>marry with other spices. Its flavour is similar to mint, the main > > flavour > >>component is (+)carvone, an optical isomer of (-) carvone, found in some >>mints. Sometimes, caraway in bread gives the bread a minty flavour. >>HTH >>cheers >>Wazza > > > Thanks for the explanation ! > > The problem is that, in French, both are cumins... > > Philippe > > > With respect, in French "cumin" is the exactly the same word as in English, but "carraway" is "carvi" (deriving from a very similar arabic word which is something like "karwia" when transliterated). -- Ken Berry |
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"Wazza" > wrote in message
... <snip> > To tell the difference between cumin and caraway is not easy for the > uninitiated, but caraway usually has more pronounced stripes down the edge > of the fruit (commonly called the seed). I find the taste of caraway > objectionable, though liked it in bread in Prague, when I first thought it > was mint! Just to throw another seed into the conversation/confusion, I have some fennel seeds which look very similar to cumin or caraway seeds but the taste is more like aniseed. DC. |
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"Wazza" > wrote in message
... <snip> > To tell the difference between cumin and caraway is not easy for the > uninitiated, but caraway usually has more pronounced stripes down the edge > of the fruit (commonly called the seed). I find the taste of caraway > objectionable, though liked it in bread in Prague, when I first thought it > was mint! Just to throw another seed into the conversation/confusion, I have some fennel seeds which look very similar to cumin or caraway seeds but the taste is more like aniseed. DC. |
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DC. wrote:
> "Wazza" > wrote in > message > ... > <snip> >> To tell the difference between cumin and caraway is not easy >> for the >> uninitiated, but caraway usually has more pronounced stripes >> down >> the edge of the fruit (commonly called the seed). I find the >> taste >> of caraway objectionable, though liked it in bread in Prague, >> when I >> first thought it was mint! > > Just to throw another seed into the conversation/confusion, I > have > some fennel seeds which look very similar to cumin or caraway > seeds > but the taste is more like aniseed. That's quite true! Unlike Wazza, I like the taste of all three but I could not tell the seeds (or fruits or whatever) apart by eye. The odors are quite distinctive of course. Jim. |
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Philippe Lemaire (remove oldies) wrote:
> Ken Berry wrote: > >>Philippe Lemaire (remove oldies) wrote: >> >>>Wazza wrote: >>> >>> >>>>"Philippe Lemaire (remove oldies)" > >>> >>>wrote >>> >>> >>>>in message ... >>>> >>>> >>>>>When use one or the other ? >>>>> >>>>>Philippe >>>>> >>>> >>>>these two should not be confused, though often are because they look >>> >>>very >>> >>> >>>>similar, but their flavour is very different. >>>>Cumin is the spice used in most cuisines, typically Asian, but also >>> >>>Mexican. >>> >>> >>>>Caraway is typically only a European spice, but may have 'crept' into > > N. > >>>>African, like Morocco. >>>>Never use caraway in Asian cooking, it is always cumin. Sometimes >>> >>>caraway is >>> >>> >>>>confused with black cumin (also called Royal cumin, or Shah jeera). >>> >>>Caraway >>> >>> >>>>is not used in Indian cooking. Caraway is used in bread in central >>> >>>Europe, >>> >>> >>>>and supposed to be in cheese in Holland, though I have only found the >>> >>>cumin >>> >>> >>>>variety. In North Africa, it is said to be a component of harrisa, a > > hot > >>>>condiment, but I wonder if this is even correct. To me, caraway does > > not > >>>>marry with other spices. Its flavour is similar to mint, the main >>> >>>flavour >>> >>> >>>>component is (+)carvone, an optical isomer of (-) carvone, found in > > some > >>>>mints. Sometimes, caraway in bread gives the bread a minty flavour. >>>>HTH >>>>cheers >>>>Wazza >>> >>> >>>Thanks for the explanation ! >>> >>>The problem is that, in French, both are cumins... >>> >>>Philippe >>> >>> >>> >> >>With respect, in French "cumin" is the exactly the same word as in >>English, but "carraway" is "carvi" (deriving from a very similar arabic >>word which is something like "karwia" when transliterated). > > > Not so simple... > > Cumin is cumin BUT > Carvi is also called "Cumin des prés" > > Philippe > > > Thanks Philippe. I see -- from French sources -- that 'carvi' has the Latin name 'Carum carvi L.' whereas 'cumin des prés' is 'Cuminum cyminum' -- two totally different things (source: http://www.hippocratus.com/pages/det....asp?ID=***001 ) I do however note that you are correct in that the two terms are used interchangeably e.g http://www.biam2.org/www/Sub2028.html http://www.herbdatanz.com/aromathera...l_oils_-_2.htm ; though why this is so remains a mystery -- possibly for similar reasons that turmeric in French is 'safran des Indes' (or curcuma) to distinguish it from real saffron?? -- Ken Berry Tel/Fax: (61 2) 6258 0032 Mobile: 0429 99 88 67 Coast: (61 2) 4471 5782 e-mail: |
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Salut/Hi Philippe Lemaire (remove oldies),
> >Thanks for the explanation ! > >The problem is that, in French, both are cumins... No. Caraway is correctly called "Carvi" in french Cumin (or cumin) is "cumin" in French However, you're right that especially in Alsace, by confusion between kuemmel and kreuzkuemmel, there is considerable confusion. -- All the Best Ian Hoare http://www.souvigne.com mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website |
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"DC." > wrote in message ... > "Wazza" > wrote in message > ... > <snip> > > To tell the difference between cumin and caraway is not easy for the > > uninitiated, but caraway usually has more pronounced stripes down the edge > > of the fruit (commonly called the seed). I find the taste of caraway > > objectionable, though liked it in bread in Prague, when I first thought it > > was mint! > > Just to throw another seed into the conversation/confusion, I have some > fennel seeds which look very similar to cumin or caraway seeds but the taste > is more like aniseed. > yes, DC, fennel and aniseed are often confused, especially in Indian cookboks. Fennel seed (fruit) is harvested when not quite dried, and has a green/yellow colour. Because it contains more water than other dried seeds, it is prone to mildew, for this reason it is often sold roasted. As far as I am aware, Indians do not use aniseed, it is always fennel. It is possible to distinguish all these, and more, (e.g. celery seed and radhuni), even from pictures in books. As far as I can remember, no-one has it completely right, but Madhur Jaffrey comes closest, IMHO. The problems come, not from ignorance or mistranslation (mistransliteration?) but in finding a suitable English word; so channa dhal, a type of yellow pulse, has been translated into the nearest English equivalent, which is chickpea, but channa is not the chickpea known in the West/Middle East (as an ingredient in hummus, for eg) so chickpea flour is not made from chickpeas, its made from channa. Confusing? If we use the term 'besan flour' we should all know what we are talking about. Its because of the confusion I tend to label spices and other ingredients by their Hindi names. The problem here is that there are several other languages, not to mention sub-languages in India alone to make the task a lengthy one, especially as I have over a hundred jars to label! We will get there in the end (but will we know?) cheers Wazza |
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"Wazza" > wrote in message
... <snip> > yes, DC, fennel and aniseed are often confused, especially in Indian > cookboks. Fennel seed (fruit) is harvested when not quite dried, and has a > green/yellow colour. Because it contains more water than other dried seeds, > it is prone to mildew, for this reason it is often sold roasted. Strange, the bag of fennel seeds i have which if i'm not mistaken came from Southall isn't roasted. It looks to be (sun) dried like regular cumin seeds. > As far as I > am aware, Indians do not use aniseed, it is always fennel. > It is possible to distinguish all these, and more, (e.g. celery seed and > radhuni), even from pictures in books. As far as I can remember, no-one has > it completely right, but Madhur Jaffrey comes closest, IMHO. The problems > come, not from ignorance or mistranslation (mistransliteration?) but in > finding a suitable English word; Same goes for certain Chinese/SE Asian spices... remember San Ny?? LOL. I've been told the best place to find dried San Ny in the UK is through Chinese herbalists if you're still interested. <snip> > ...especially as I have over a hundred jars to label! sometimes i find it useful to keep the original packets or containers, so you know where it comes from or what's its local name is. DC. |
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"Wazza" > wrote in message
... <snip> > yes, DC, fennel and aniseed are often confused, especially in Indian > cookboks. Fennel seed (fruit) is harvested when not quite dried, and has a > green/yellow colour. Because it contains more water than other dried seeds, > it is prone to mildew, for this reason it is often sold roasted. Strange, the bag of fennel seeds i have which if i'm not mistaken came from Southall isn't roasted. It looks to be (sun) dried like regular cumin seeds. > As far as I > am aware, Indians do not use aniseed, it is always fennel. > It is possible to distinguish all these, and more, (e.g. celery seed and > radhuni), even from pictures in books. As far as I can remember, no-one has > it completely right, but Madhur Jaffrey comes closest, IMHO. The problems > come, not from ignorance or mistranslation (mistransliteration?) but in > finding a suitable English word; Same goes for certain Chinese/SE Asian spices... remember San Ny?? LOL. I've been told the best place to find dried San Ny in the UK is through Chinese herbalists if you're still interested. <snip> > ...especially as I have over a hundred jars to label! sometimes i find it useful to keep the original packets or containers, so you know where it comes from or what's its local name is. DC. |
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Wazza wrote:
> > The problem is that, in French, both are cumins... > > > then you would need to understand the context in which they are used. > North of Africa, west of the Middle East, it is probably caraway, Well - Why don't you just call it by its name: Europe ... ;^D > in Asia and Mexico it will be cumin, Several kinds of, yes ... > N Africa it could and probably is both. Well - not in my Mother-in-law's cuisine, she's from Algeria, her mother was from Maroc, and she never uses caraway. Bye, sanne. |
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"DC." > wrote in message ... > "Wazza" > wrote in message > ... > <snip> > > yes, DC, fennel and aniseed are often confused, especially in Indian > > cookboks. Fennel seed (fruit) is harvested when not quite dried, and has a > > green/yellow colour. Because it contains more water than other dried > seeds, > > it is prone to mildew, for this reason it is often sold roasted. > > Strange, the bag of fennel seeds i have which if i'm not mistaken came from > Southall isn't roasted. It looks to be (sun) dried like regular cumin seeds. > > > As far as I > > am aware, Indians do not use aniseed, it is always fennel. > > It is possible to distinguish all these, and more, (e.g. celery seed and > > radhuni), even from pictures in books. As far as I can remember, no-one > has > > it completely right, but Madhur Jaffrey comes closest, IMHO. The problems > > come, not from ignorance or mistranslation (mistransliteration?) but in > > finding a suitable English word; > > Same goes for certain Chinese/SE Asian spices... remember San Ny?? LOL. I've > been told the best place to find dried San Ny in the UK is through Chinese > herbalists if you're still interested. > > <snip> > > ...especially as I have over a hundred jars to label! > > sometimes i find it useful to keep the original packets or containers, so > you know where it comes from or what's its local name is. > > DC. > I had thought of going to a herbalist for the san ny, but I can't remember where one is around here. On the subject of original packaging, its not always helpful, the manufactures/packagers/supplies get it wrong just as many times. I have a packet of leaves from India that says 'Bay leaf' on it, they are clearly cinnamom leaves. I have had similar experiences with most of the spices I've already mentioned. Cassia especially. In Hindi it is Dal chini, meaning 'wood from China', you would think they would know? cheers Wazza thanks for the help on san ny, DC; number 1 son didn't find it in China, now he's en route for Everest base camp having narrowly missed becoming a Bhuddist priest! |
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"DC." > wrote in message ... > "Wazza" > wrote in message > ... > <snip> > > yes, DC, fennel and aniseed are often confused, especially in Indian > > cookboks. Fennel seed (fruit) is harvested when not quite dried, and has a > > green/yellow colour. Because it contains more water than other dried > seeds, > > it is prone to mildew, for this reason it is often sold roasted. > > Strange, the bag of fennel seeds i have which if i'm not mistaken came from > Southall isn't roasted. It looks to be (sun) dried like regular cumin seeds. > > > As far as I > > am aware, Indians do not use aniseed, it is always fennel. > > It is possible to distinguish all these, and more, (e.g. celery seed and > > radhuni), even from pictures in books. As far as I can remember, no-one > has > > it completely right, but Madhur Jaffrey comes closest, IMHO. The problems > > come, not from ignorance or mistranslation (mistransliteration?) but in > > finding a suitable English word; > > Same goes for certain Chinese/SE Asian spices... remember San Ny?? LOL. I've > been told the best place to find dried San Ny in the UK is through Chinese > herbalists if you're still interested. > > <snip> > > ...especially as I have over a hundred jars to label! > > sometimes i find it useful to keep the original packets or containers, so > you know where it comes from or what's its local name is. > > DC. > I had thought of going to a herbalist for the san ny, but I can't remember where one is around here. On the subject of original packaging, its not always helpful, the manufactures/packagers/supplies get it wrong just as many times. I have a packet of leaves from India that says 'Bay leaf' on it, they are clearly cinnamom leaves. I have had similar experiences with most of the spices I've already mentioned. Cassia especially. In Hindi it is Dal chini, meaning 'wood from China', you would think they would know? cheers Wazza thanks for the help on san ny, DC; number 1 son didn't find it in China, now he's en route for Everest base camp having narrowly missed becoming a Bhuddist priest! |
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"sanne" > wrote in message oups.com... > Wazza wrote: > > > > The problem is that, in French, both are cumins... > > > > > then you would need to understand the context in which they are used. > > > North of Africa, west of the Middle East, it is probably caraway, > > Well - Why don't you just call it by its name: Europe ... ;^D > > > in Asia and Mexico it will be cumin, > > Several kinds of, yes ... > > > N Africa it could and probably is both. > > Well - not in my Mother-in-law's cuisine, she's from Algeria, > her mother was from Maroc, and she never uses caraway. > there ya go, just when we thought we had sorted it, out comes a contra-indicator! Now, is caraway used in N. Africa, or are N. Africans getting confused. thanks for your input, Sanne. How sure are you of these revelations? (Personally, I'd like you to be correct ;?) cheers Wazza |
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"Wazza" > wrote in message
... <snip> > I had thought of going to a herbalist for the san ny, but I can't remember > where one is around here. Try Chinatown in London. > On the subject of original packaging, its not always helpful, the > manufactures/packagers/supplies get it wrong just as many times. I have a > packet of leaves from India that says 'Bay leaf' on it, they are clearly > cinnamom leaves. I have had similar experiences with most of the spices I've > already mentioned. Cassia especially. In Hindi it is Dal chini, meaning > 'wood from China', you would think they would know? Where' s your sense of humour ; ) > thanks for the help on san ny, DC; number 1 son didn't find it in China, now > he's en route for Everest base camp having narrowly missed becoming a > Bhuddist priest! I'll be in HK & Southern China in June, can you wait that long? DC. |
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> wrote in message ... > On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:01:54 +0200, "Philippe Lemaire \(remove > oldies\)" > wrote: > >>When use one or the other ? > > Caraway goes with things that go with dill, I think of it as a > European spice. Though dill is popular in Vietnam and they don't use caraway. Peter > Cumin goes with things that go with hot peppers I think of it as a > hot zone spice, Africa, Latin America, Southern Asia. > > |
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Hi Wazza!
> > Well - not in my Mother-in-law's cuisine, she's from Algeria, > > her mother was from Maroc, and she never uses caraway. > > > there ya go, just when we thought we had sorted it, out comes a > contra-indicator! > Now, is caraway used in N. Africa, or are N. Africans getting confused. > > thanks for your input, Sanne. How sure are you of these revelations? > (Personally, I'd like you to be correct ;?) You're welcome. I'm pretty sure - I hadn't known that Harissa does contain caraway sometimes, but there are recipes around. The Harissa a friend brought from Maroc doesn't contain caraway. My nose is "Sentinel"-like ;-) - and normally, I don't like caraway. I do like caraway with "Bayrisch Kraut" (cooked coleslaw with a little onion, sugar and little vinegar, salt and pepper) and with "Zwiebelkuchen" (Onion-cake, "goes" well with very young wine ["Sauser" or "Federweisser"]). I can't stand it with fried potatoes. And dill - I like the fresh green with "graved lax" and the seeds with pickled gherkins, but that's it! But cumin - well, that's another story. I don't like black cumin much (too strong for me), but "normal" cumin, roasted, with garlic, hot peppers, some vinegar and oil, mixed with blanched carrots - Heaven! And in Indian food, of course - but that's where from they got their stuff in Northern Africa ... Bye, sanne. |
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