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Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables.

Does BBQ sauce really go bad (if refrigerated)?



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 26-05-2008, 03:49 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Posts: 30
Default Does BBQ sauce really go bad (if refrigerated)?

I've got some BBQ sauce I made a few months ago. Do you think it can
go bad? It is a mustard based sauce from a "Smoke and Spice" recipe.
The book says it will keep 2 weeks refrigerated. Now, I know that two
weeks is conservative. But, what about say 4 months?

I've tasted it and it tastes the same as ever to me, except maybe more
vinegary.

Let me know if you think it will kill me. I have a bunch left over
and don't want to waste it. I'm firing up my WSM for the first time
in a long time over Memorial Day. I only have a 4 lb pork butt to
smoke, but it is better than nothing. (I'd like to do a lot at once
but didn't plan for it.).

Thanks for the advice in advance.

- Bobby

p.s. My wife thinks the sauce is fine, but then again she defrosts
meat by leaving it on the counter and eats raw cookie dough with raw
eggs in it so she isn't that worried about things going
bad...admittedly she hasn't killed me yet, so maybe she's right!
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 26-05-2008, 05:58 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Posts: 426
Default Does BBQ sauce really go bad (if refrigerated)?

wrote:

I've got some BBQ sauce I made a few months ago. Do you think it can
go bad? It is a mustard based sauce from a "Smoke and Spice" recipe.
The book says it will keep 2 weeks refrigerated. Now, I know that two
weeks is conservative. But, what about say 4 months?

I've tasted it and it tastes the same as ever to me, except maybe more
vinegary.

Let me know if you think it will kill me. I have a bunch left over
and don't want to waste it. I'm firing up my WSM for the first time
in a long time over Memorial Day. I only have a 4 lb pork butt to
smoke, but it is better than nothing. (I'd like to do a lot at once
but didn't plan for it.).



I haven't seen the recipe, but most bbq sauces are very high
acid and don't contain protein. They generally won't go "bad"
in that they will develop pathogens. However, even high acid
sauces will eventually develop mold, *even* if refrigerated,
eventually. Refridgeration will slow down the mold process
considerably, which is why it's always recommended. Be careful
of reusing sauces that have been brushed on the meat where
the brush has been reintroduced back into the container. In
that case, always chuck it.

Given all that, if you don't see anything growing on the
surface you probably aren't going to end up eating any
mold.

p.s. My wife thinks the sauce is fine, but then again she defrosts
meat by leaving it on the counter and eats raw cookie dough with raw
eggs in it so she isn't that worried about things going
bad...admittedly she hasn't killed me yet, so maybe she's right!


No doubt she comes from tough stock. Got some badass
white corpuscles.

Defrosting on the counter is fine. Just don't allow it to sit
long enough such that the meat goes above 40 F. No enhanced
risk there. Raw eggs? Well, nothing wrong with rolling the
dice once in awhile of it's worth the risk. I eat steak tartare
with uncooked yolk from time to time.

  #3 (permalink)  
Old 27-05-2008, 10:08 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Posts: 4
Default Does BBQ sauce really go bad (if refrigerated)?

On May 26, 6:50 pm, "Nunya Bidnits" wrote:
RegForte wrote:
wrote:


I've got some BBQ sauce I made a few months ago. Do you think it can
go bad? It is a mustard based sauce from a "Smoke and Spice" recipe.


Which one?

The book says it will keep 2 weeks refrigerated. Now, I know that
two weeks is conservative. But, what about say 4 months?


Most published recipes seem to be very conservative on storage times if they
state anything at all. They seem to prefer to keep their lawyers unemployed
as much as possible.



I've tasted it and it tastes the same as ever to me, except maybe
more vinegary.


My barbecue sauce has slightly greater acidity than ketchup. You can keep it
in the fridge for a year if its not being used. I can attest to that based
on a small test bottle I left in the bottom back shelf of the fridge for
that long. I put it up with the hot water bath method and even in use, it
will keep for months in the fridge.

However I *never* dip out of the jar for serving or basting, I always pour
some down into a smaller container and then serve and baste out of it
instead. Besides the cold sauce is not nearly as flavorful and doesn't help
those slices of brisket you are trying to keep warm.

Its the acidity that is important. Mustard has a lot of vinegar in it.
Tomato based sauces are similar, and usually contain vinegar in addition to
the acidic tomato ingredients. But there are also bbq sauces with bases of
molasses, fruit, and other stuff, and sauces which may be vinegar or mustard
based but have enough other non-acidic stuff added to reduce their acidity
considerably. So its dangerous to assume that most barbecue sauces will have
about the same keeping power.



%---------

p.s. My wife thinks the sauce is fine, but then again she defrosts
meat by leaving it on the counter and eats raw cookie dough with raw
eggs in it so she isn't that worried about things going
bad...admittedly she hasn't killed me yet, so maybe she's right!


I am one of those purists who demands a raw, or at most coddled, egg in my
Caesar salad. Otherwise, it ain't a Caesar. Crumbled hard boiled egg makes
it something else. Personally I worry more about salmonella developing on
hard cooked egg that has been left out too long or allowed to get too warm,
than I do raw egg out of the shell, in which case salmonella is quite rare.
Contamination comes from the outer shell surface of a healthy egg, not
inside, and careful cleaing before cracking takes care of that. I have had
restaurants refuse me my breakfast eggs "over real easy", but it hasn't
killed me yet. I flip them and cook the other side just long enough to turn
the surface white, and its on my plate.

I can sympathize with your wife's position, since I believe in the principle
that we are all going to eat several pounds of dirt before we die, so it
doesn't hurt to be a little bit used to it. g



No doubt she comes from tough stock. Got some badass
white corpuscles.


Comes from eating dirt!

MartyB in KC


white corpuscles suck when you think about them. lol.
no really, what's the topic here anyway? i'll have to look. i'm so
scatterbrained it's not funny. ok i got it.
bbq sauce will not go bad if you freeze it for no more than 6 months.
the reason for this is because of the vinegar in it. there is no such
thing anywhere in any country on earth that does not put vinegar in
their bbq sauce. you might make a ketchup based sauce, but remember,
ketchup has vinegar in it! you should know this anyway. i'm
wondering if you're kind of stoopid.
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 29-05-2008, 10:39 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default Does BBQ sauce really go bad (if refrigerated)?

On May 26, 6:50*pm, "Nunya Bidnits" wrote:
RegForte wrote:
wrote:


I've got some BBQ sauce I made a few months ago. *Do you think it can
go bad? *It is a mustard based sauce from a "Smoke and Spice" recipe.


Which one?

The book says it will keep 2 weeks refrigerated. *Now, I know that
two weeks is conservative. *But, what about say 4 months?


Most published recipes seem to be very conservative on storage times if they
state anything at all. They seem to prefer to keep their lawyers unemployed
as much as possible.



I've tasted it and it tastes the same as ever to me, except maybe
more vinegary.


My barbecue sauce has slightly greater acidity than ketchup. You can keep it
in the fridge for a year if its not being used. I can attest to that based
on a small test bottle I left in the bottom back shelf of the fridge for
that long. I put it up with the hot water bath method and even in use, it
will keep for months in the fridge.

However I *never* dip out of the jar for serving or basting, I always pour
some down into a smaller container and then serve and baste out of it
instead. Besides the cold sauce is not nearly as flavorful and doesn't help
those slices of brisket you are trying to keep warm.

Its the acidity that is important. Mustard has a lot of vinegar in it.
Tomato based sauces are similar, and usually contain vinegar in addition to
the acidic tomato ingredients. But there are also bbq sauces with bases of
molasses, fruit, and other stuff, and sauces which may be vinegar or mustard
based but have enough other non-acidic stuff added to reduce their acidity
considerably. So its dangerous to assume that most barbecue sauces will have
about the same keeping power.



%---------

p.s. My wife thinks the sauce is fine, but then again she defrosts
meat by leaving it on the counter and eats raw cookie dough with raw
eggs in it so she isn't that worried about things going
bad...admittedly she hasn't killed me yet, so maybe she's right!


I am one of those purists who demands a raw, or at most coddled, egg in my
Caesar salad. Otherwise, it ain't a Caesar. Crumbled hard boiled egg makes
it something else. Personally I worry more about salmonella developing on
hard cooked egg that has been left out too long or allowed to get too warm,
than I do raw egg out of the shell, in which case salmonella is quite rare..
Contamination comes from the outer shell surface of a healthy egg, not
inside, and careful cleaing before cracking takes care of that. I have had
restaurants refuse me my breakfast eggs "over real easy", but it hasn't
killed me yet. I flip them and cook the other side just long enough to turn
the surface white, and its on my plate.

I can sympathize with your wife's position, since I believe in the principle
that we are all going to eat several pounds of dirt before we die, so it
doesn't hurt to be a little bit used to it. g



No doubt she comes from tough stock. Got some badass
white corpuscles.


Comes from eating dirt!

MartyB in KC


Well, the sauce didn't kill me so that's good.

Unfortunately the pork wasn't falling off the bone tender even after 8
hours (4 lbs of pork). I have a feeling it was still frozen in the
middle. We defrosted it in water in the sink, but it was in a plastic
freezer bag. I'm wondering if the bag insulated it too much from the
water. I'm thinking that next time I'll defrost it in the fridge in
water with no bag. Better yet - don't freeze it in the first place!

- Bobby
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 30-05-2008, 03:53 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 340
Default Does BBQ sauce really go bad (if refrigerated)?

"Nunya Bidnits" wrote in message
...
frohe wrote:
wrote in message
...
Unfortunately the pork wasn't falling off the bone tender even after
8 hours (4 lbs of pork). I have a feeling it was still frozen in the
middle. We defrosted it in water in the sink, but it was in a
plastic freezer bag. I'm wondering if the bag insulated it too much
from the water. I'm thinking that next time I'll defrost it in the
fridge in water with no bag. Better yet - don't freeze it in the
first place!


You don't want the meat to fall off the bone. Rather, you want it to
be "toothy", meaning when you bite into it, it pulls from the bone
easily. If it falls off the bone, you've over-cooked it.

Defrosting in a baggie in water in the sink is a good practice
provided you had it in the water long enough to defrost properly. I
suspect you didn't. I wouldn't defrost in the fridge with no bag.
That does nothing but water-log the meat. And, no reason not to take
advantage of sales and freeze the extras. Just make sure you give it
plenty of time to completely defrost before you cook it.

-frohe


That begs the question.. do people here prefer to put their meat on the
cooker cold, or brought to room temp first? And why?

Inquiring minds.... etc.

MartyB in KC



Cold. The colder, the better. But not frozen in the center. '-)

Why? I'm not really sure, except that I like my steaks char-grilled on the
outside, but still slightly cool inside. This works much better for me if
it's straight from the 'fridge.
Another cosmetic advantage to cold meat on the grill/smoker, you get a
deeper smoke ring.

BOB


  #7 (permalink)  
Old 30-05-2008, 11:31 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Posts: 81
Default Does BBQ sauce really go bad (if refrigerated)?

On Thu, 29 May 2008 22:53:27 -0400, " BOB" wrote:

SNIP

Cold. The colder, the better. But not frozen in the center. '-)

Why? I'm not really sure, except that I like my steaks char-grilled on the
outside, but still slightly cool inside. This works much better for me if
it's straight from the 'fridge.
Another cosmetic advantage to cold meat on the grill/smoker, you get a
deeper smoke ring.

BOB


I bring my meat to room temp before grill'in or Que'in for several
reasons:

I really don't want to waist the time and wood in the pit or on the
grill having the pit or grill have to bring the meat up to cooking
temp.

IMHO room temp meat cooks more even.

I find meat doesn't stick to the grill if it is at room temp. Even
when the grates are oiled up well, cold meat can stick real bad

I make steaks just fine starting at room temp and searing the outside
while leaving the inside cool and pink. It's all in technique. Sear
the meat, move to cool side till desired doneness is achieved.

My only question is, why cold meat would develop a deeper smoke
ring???

Gene
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 31-05-2008, 04:00 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Posts: 340
Default Does BBQ sauce really go bad (if refrigerated)?

"VegA" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 May 2008 22:53:27 -0400, " BOB" wrote:

SNIP

Cold. The colder, the better. But not frozen in the center. '-)

Why? I'm not really sure, except that I like my steaks char-grilled on
the
outside, but still slightly cool inside. This works much better for me if
it's straight from the 'fridge.
Another cosmetic advantage to cold meat on the grill/smoker, you get a
deeper smoke ring.

BOB


I bring my meat to room temp before grill'in or Que'in for several
reasons:

I really don't want to waist the time and wood in the pit or on the
grill having the pit or grill have to bring the meat up to cooking
temp.

IMHO room temp meat cooks more even.


Your opinion, not mine. Not in my experience, either.

I find meat doesn't stick to the grill if it is at room temp. Even
when the grates are oiled up well, cold meat can stick real bad


My grates have never been oiled since the first time I fired the pit(s) to
season them. Never have a problem with meat sticking to them. Not even
burgers or meatloaf.


I make steaks just fine starting at room temp and searing the outside
while leaving the inside cool and pink. It's all in technique. Sear
the meat, move to cool side till desired doneness is achieved.


My steaks are seared at less than 1/4 inch from the coals. If I start at
room temperature, the center will be long past and above room temperature.
My technique works very well for me. I want the center cool, not room
temperature.


My only question is, why cold meat would develop a deeper smoke
ring???


Google can be your friend. So can real life experience.
Hint. Meat will only absorb the chemicals that form the smoke ring up to
about 140 degrees. If it takes longer to get there, the ring will be
deeper.

BOB



  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2008, 04:05 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Posts: 81
Default Does BBQ sauce really go bad (if refrigerated)?

On Fri, 30 May 2008 23:00:35 -0400, " BOB" wrote:

"VegA" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 29 May 2008 22:53:27 -0400, " BOB" wrote:

SNIP

Cold. The colder, the better. But not frozen in the center. '-)

Why? I'm not really sure, except that I like my steaks char-grilled on
the
outside, but still slightly cool inside. This works much better for me if
it's straight from the 'fridge.
Another cosmetic advantage to cold meat on the grill/smoker, you get a
deeper smoke ring.

BOB


I bring my meat to room temp before grill'in or Que'in for several
reasons:

I really don't want to waist the time and wood in the pit or on the
grill having the pit or grill have to bring the meat up to cooking
temp.

IMHO room temp meat cooks more even.


Your opinion, not mine. Not in my experience, either.

I find meat doesn't stick to the grill if it is at room temp. Even
when the grates are oiled up well, cold meat can stick real bad


My grates have never been oiled since the first time I fired the pit(s) to
season them. Never have a problem with meat sticking to them. Not even
burgers or meatloaf.


I make steaks just fine starting at room temp and searing the outside
while leaving the inside cool and pink. It's all in technique. Sear
the meat, move to cool side till desired doneness is achieved.


My steaks are seared at less than 1/4 inch from the coals. If I start at
room temperature, the center will be long past and above room temperature.
My technique works very well for me. I want the center cool, not room
temperature.


My only question is, why cold meat would develop a deeper smoke
ring???


Google can be your friend. So can real life experience.
Hint. Meat will only absorb the chemicals that form the smoke ring up to
about 140 degrees. If it takes longer to get there, the ring will be
deeper.

BOB



Thanks for responding.

I'm gonna be doing 2 butts this Sat. I will try them room temp and
cold and see for my self. I didn't buy the sand in place of water
thing till I tried it and I am now a sand guy forever!

  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2008, 09:16 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Posts: 340
Default Does BBQ sauce really go bad (if refrigerated)?

"VegA" wrote in message
...

Hint. Meat will only absorb the chemicals that form the smoke ring up to
about 140 degrees. If it takes longer to get there, the ring will be
deeper.


BOB



Thanks for responding.

I'm gonna be doing 2 butts this Sat. I will try them room temp and
cold and see for my self. I didn't buy the sand in place of water
thing till I tried it and I am now a sand guy forever!



Believe me, it works.

I still use water to help keep the temperature in the 212ish range.

BOB
who actually hates those fake chemically induced rings


  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2008, 09:58 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Posts: 81
Default Does BBQ sauce really go bad (if refrigerated)?ATTN:BOB

On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 16:16:55 -0400, " BOB" wrote:

"VegA" wrote in message
.. .

Hint. Meat will only absorb the chemicals that form the smoke ring up to
about 140 degrees. If it takes longer to get there, the ring will be
deeper.


BOB



Thanks for responding.

I'm gonna be doing 2 butts this Sat. I will try them room temp and
cold and see for my self. I didn't buy the sand in place of water
thing till I tried it and I am now a sand guy forever!



Believe me, it works.

I still use water to help keep the temperature in the 212ish range.

BOB
who actually hates those fake chemically induced rings


Well I did what I said. I brought one butt to room temp and took one
outta the fridge. Slow cooked over mesq. for about 13 hours. The
fridged one took 1 hour and 40 min. longer.

Had a 3/8 inch or so smoke ring on both of them.

The only difference I can confirm is that one took longer than the
other to cook.

I must say that I do apply a very heavy rub so that may have hindered
the ring development. That said, 3/8 inch is still very good.

Just thought I would report back on my results.
 




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