Hello NG,
I have a few questions and hope someone here can help me.

1. im making a Moments Kit- Gwurztraminer and have started this wine on
the 12th around 11 pm Pst. It has not started as of early morning of
the 15th (01:00 Am, pst.). I have done exactly what the directions
asked and am wondering if the yeast maybe old or something. I put this
on a cold floor and am wondering if this is the culprit. Can I open it
up and check the temp? or should I wait a few days more? I have moved it
to a warmer area.

I have added the Benodite (desolved) and juice, stirred, topped up to 6
Gal. in the bucket and added the yeast and stirred before putting the
lid on.

the starting SG was 1.090

If this does not start in the next day or so what should I do? Add
another yeast? What do you use or do start this? Can I put a warming
belt around the bucket?


2. I made a Pinot noir and Cabernet/Merlot From the Moments wine kits
back in June 05. I have had them in thier last racking in a controlled
refrigerator for the last 6 months in Carboys.

Im ready to bottle in the next few days and am wondering if I should put
the last packet in? which is the Sorbate.

The directions state If im sweetening because of being too dry, it
calls for using Pk #4 Sorbate. Does this sweeten the wine or do I add
more sugar to sweeten it?

it also says something about using a wine conditioner. what is this and
can I still bottle after using it?

TIA,
-Ron

Here is how I make my wine sweeter to taste just before bottling. (This is
for a five gallon batch) First I rack into a clean sanitized primary
fermenter so that I can stir without mixing settlement that has occured
since the last rack. I bring to a boil a quart of water, turn off the heat
and add two cups of sugar, stirring it into the pan until dissolved. Now let
the sugar mix cool to room temp. I then start adding the sugar mix into the
wine until the wine is to my taste. Of course you have to keep tasting the
wine and soon your judgement may be somewhat clouded! Make more and add it
if it is still not sweet enough. As a final step after the wine is to your
taste, add the Pot. Sorbate stabilizer to stop additional fermenting from
the new sugar.
"R C Jr." > wrote in message
...
> Hello NG,
> I have a few questions and hope someone here can help me.
>
> 1. im making a Moments Kit- Gwurztraminer and have started this wine on
> the 12th around 11 pm Pst. It has not started as of early morning of
> the 15th (01:00 Am, pst.). I have done exactly what the directions
> asked and am wondering if the yeast maybe old or something. I put this
> on a cold floor and am wondering if this is the culprit. Can I open it
> up and check the temp? or should I wait a few days more? I have moved it
> to a warmer area.
>
> I have added the Benodite (desolved) and juice, stirred, topped up to 6
> Gal. in the bucket and added the yeast and stirred before putting the
> lid on.
>
> the starting SG was 1.090
>
> If this does not start in the next day or so what should I do? Add
> another yeast? What do you use or do start this? Can I put a warming
> belt around the bucket?
>
>
> 2. I made a Pinot noir and Cabernet/Merlot From the Moments wine kits
> back in June 05. I have had them in thier last racking in a controlled
> refrigerator for the last 6 months in Carboys.
>
> Im ready to bottle in the next few days and am wondering if I should put
> the last packet in? which is the Sorbate.
>
> The directions state If im sweetening because of being too dry, it
> calls for using Pk #4 Sorbate. Does this sweeten the wine or do I add
> more sugar to sweeten it?
>
> it also says something about using a wine conditioner. what is this and
> can I still bottle after using it?
>
> TIA,
> -Ron
>

I would use a fresh pack of yeast and make a good starter. Then add it and
see if things improve.

Ray

"R C Jr." > wrote in message
...
> Hello NG,
> I have a few questions and hope someone here can help me.
>
> 1. im making a Moments Kit- Gwurztraminer and have started this wine on
> the 12th around 11 pm Pst. It has not started as of early morning of
> the 15th (01:00 Am, pst.). I have done exactly what the directions
> asked and am wondering if the yeast maybe old or something. I put this
> on a cold floor and am wondering if this is the culprit. Can I open it
> up and check the temp? or should I wait a few days more? I have moved it
> to a warmer area.
>
> I have added the Benodite (desolved) and juice, stirred, topped up to 6
> Gal. in the bucket and added the yeast and stirred before putting the
> lid on.
>
> the starting SG was 1.090
>
> If this does not start in the next day or so what should I do? Add
> another yeast? What do you use or do start this? Can I put a warming
> belt around the bucket?
>
>
> 2. I made a Pinot noir and Cabernet/Merlot From the Moments wine kits
> back in June 05. I have had them in thier last racking in a controlled
> refrigerator for the last 6 months in Carboys.
>
> Im ready to bottle in the next few days and am wondering if I should put
> the last packet in? which is the Sorbate.
>
> The directions state If im sweetening because of being too dry, it
> calls for using Pk #4 Sorbate. Does this sweeten the wine or do I add
> more sugar to sweeten it?
>
> it also says something about using a wine conditioner. what is this and
> can I still bottle after using it?
>
> TIA,
> -Ron
>
>

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 01:20:25 -0800, (R C Jr.) wrote:

>I have added the Benodite (desolved) and juice, stirred, topped up to 6
>Gal. in the bucket and added the yeast and stirred before putting the
>lid on.
>
>the starting SG was 1.090

I suspect the temperature. Get it to room temp, and see if it starts
up. BTW what is the current temp & sg of the must?

Steve

Ok This is the 17th now and still not started.
I opened the lid and its gray yeasty cake looking (smells good) and
bubbles are slowly "bursting". Looks like it wants to start but is
vvveeerrrryyyy slow.

no activity from the air lock.

I checked the temp and is 65.

the SG is 1.090 still.

I think I will add another yeast packet/starter. what do you guys
think?

will adding another packet mess it up? or mess the outcome of the wine?

also how long can you keep this thing before it starts to get bad.

should I transfer it to a carboy now? and then start over? Will
agetating it help. rocking the bucket back and forth with the lid on?

thanks for all the responses back.

-Ron


On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 01:20:25 -0800, (R C Jr.) wrote:
I have added the Benodite (desolved) and juice, stirred, topped up to 6
Gal. in the bucket and added the yeast and stirred before putting the
lid on.
the starting SG was 1.090


Steve Wrote:
I suspect the temperature. Get it to room temp, and see if it starts up.
BTW what is the current temp & sg of the must?
Steve

Ron - Relax, have a glass of wine. This is a Gwurztraminer kit. It won't
hurt to have it ferment slow. If you want this kit to take off, warm it up.
Haul it up to where the temp. is in the 70s. It will take the better part
of a day for the entire must to warm up. Them it will ferment rapidly.
But, I ferment my white wines at 50F and it takes them a couple of weeks to
get near SG 1.000. You will preserve a lot of the Gwurtz. aroma and fruity
flavor by letting it go slow. From your description it appears that the
must is fermenting, albeit slow. You don't need any more yeast but it won't
hurt to add some if you must. If you want to put it in a carboy go ahead.
In a day or so you will see lots of activity in the air lock.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

"R C Jr." > wrote in message
...
> Ok This is the 17th now and still not started.
> I opened the lid and its gray yeasty cake looking (smells good) and
> bubbles are slowly "bursting". Looks like it wants to start but is
> vvveeerrrryyyy slow.
>
> no activity from the air lock.
>
> I checked the temp and is 65.
>
> the SG is 1.090 still.
>
> I think I will add another yeast packet/starter. what do you guys
> think?
>
> will adding another packet mess it up? or mess the outcome of the wine?
>
> also how long can you keep this thing before it starts to get bad.
>
> should I transfer it to a carboy now? and then start over? Will
> agetating it help. rocking the bucket back and forth with the lid on?
>
> thanks for all the responses back.
>
> -Ron
>
>
> On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 01:20:25 -0800, (R C Jr.) wrote:
> I have added the Benodite (desolved) and juice, stirred, topped up to 6
> Gal. in the bucket and added the yeast and stirred before putting the
> lid on.
> the starting SG was 1.090
>
>
> Steve Wrote:
> I suspect the temperature. Get it to room temp, and see if it starts up.
> BTW what is the current temp & sg of the must?
> Steve
>

William Frazier wrote:
> Ron - Relax, have a glass of wine. This is a Gwurztraminer kit. It won't
> hurt to have it ferment slow. If you want this kit to take off, warm it up.
> Haul it up to where the temp. is in the 70s. It will take the better part
> of a day for the entire must to warm up. Them it will ferment rapidly.
> But, I ferment my white wines at 50F and it takes them a couple of weeks to
> get near SG 1.000. You will preserve a lot of the Gwurtz. aroma and fruity
> flavor by letting it go slow. From your description it appears that the
> must is fermenting, albeit slow. You don't need any more yeast but it won't
> hurt to add some if you must. If you want to put it in a carboy go ahead.
> In a day or so you will see lots of activity in the air lock.
>
> Bill Frazier
> Olathe, Kansas USA
>

Actually, I would partially disagree. Yes, slower ferments are
desirable but it's actually more the cold that preserves the white wine
character rather than the speed of ferment (more precisely, they both
do, but the ferment is slow because of the colder temperature, so it's
the temperature that is the main factor).

Ideally, the ferment should start strong because there is increased
danger of oxidation and other spoilage if the must sits around for
several days without the yeast taking off. For that reason it's
probably better to start at 70F or so and only take the temp down when
they yeast takes off.

That was just a theoretical point for next time, practically, go with
Bill's advice.

Pp

Might be fermenting so slow also if yeast is nutrient-starved
(commercial winery terminology is YANC = Yeast Available Nitrogen
Concentration). You'd be surprised how little active yeast it takes to
get a decent fermentation going when the yeast has the proper nutrition.

Ron, might not hurt to give it a tad of yeast nutrient... mebbe 1
teaspoon per gallon of DAP (DiAmmoniumPhosphate), plus mebbe a 1/2
teaspoon per gallon of Fermaid K two days later.

I agree with Bill that the cooler, slow ferment will yield a fruitier
Gewurtz... that would be my personal preference, too.

Gene

William Frazier wrote:
> Ron - Relax, have a glass of wine. This is a Gwurztraminer kit. It won't
> hurt to have it ferment slow. If you want this kit to take off, warm it up.
> Haul it up to where the temp. is in the 70s. It will take the better part
> of a day for the entire must to warm up. Them it will ferment rapidly.
> But, I ferment my white wines at 50F and it takes them a couple of weeks to
> get near SG 1.000. You will preserve a lot of the Gwurtz. aroma and fruity
> flavor by letting it go slow. From your description it appears that the
> must is fermenting, albeit slow. You don't need any more yeast but it won't
> hurt to add some if you must. If you want to put it in a carboy go ahead.
> In a day or so you will see lots of activity in the air lock.
>
> Bill Frazier
> Olathe, Kansas USA
>
> "R C Jr." > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Ok This is the 17th now and still not started.
>>I opened the lid and its gray yeasty cake looking (smells good) and
>>bubbles are slowly "bursting". Looks like it wants to start but is
>>vvveeerrrryyyy slow.
>>
>>no activity from the air lock.
>>
>>I checked the temp and is 65.
>>
>>the SG is 1.090 still.
>>
>>I think I will add another yeast packet/starter. what do you guys
>>think?
>>
>>will adding another packet mess it up? or mess the outcome of the wine?
>>
>>also how long can you keep this thing before it starts to get bad.
>>
>>should I transfer it to a carboy now? and then start over? Will
>>agetating it help. rocking the bucket back and forth with the lid on?
>>
>>thanks for all the responses back.
>>
>>-Ron
>>
>>
>>On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 01:20:25 -0800, (R C Jr.) wrote:
>>I have added the Benodite (desolved) and juice, stirred, topped up to 6
>>Gal. in the bucket and added the yeast and stirred before putting the
>>lid on.
>>the starting SG was 1.090
>>
>>
>>Steve Wrote:
>>I suspect the temperature. Get it to room temp, and see if it starts up.
>>BTW what is the current temp & sg of the must?
>>Steve
>>
>
>
>

pp wrote:

> William Frazier wrote:
>
>>Ron - Relax, have a glass of wine. This is a Gwurztraminer kit. It won't
>>hurt to have it ferment slow. If you want this kit to take off, warm it up.
>>Haul it up to where the temp. is in the 70s. It will take the better part
>>of a day for the entire must to warm up. Them it will ferment rapidly.
>>But, I ferment my white wines at 50F and it takes them a couple of weeks to
>>get near SG 1.000. You will preserve a lot of the Gwurtz. aroma and fruity
>>flavor by letting it go slow. From your description it appears that the
>>must is fermenting, albeit slow. You don't need any more yeast but it won't
>>hurt to add some if you must. If you want to put it in a carboy go ahead.
>>In a day or so you will see lots of activity in the air lock.
>>
>>Bill Frazier
>>Olathe, Kansas USA
>>
>
>
> Actually, I would partially disagree. Yes, slower ferments are
> desirable but it's actually more the cold that preserves the white wine
> character rather than the speed of ferment (more precisely, they both
> do, but the ferment is slow because of the colder temperature, so it's
> the temperature that is the main factor).
>
> Ideally, the ferment should start strong because there is increased
> danger of oxidation and other spoilage if the must sits around for
> several days without the yeast taking off. For that reason it's
> probably better to start at 70F or so and only take the temp down when
> they yeast takes off.
>
> That was just a theoretical point for next time, practically, go with
> Bill's advice.
>
> Pp
>

Hmmmm.... if one has good grapes to start with and manages the sulfite
level to 30-50ppm, i'd not expect an oxidation issue. Heck, I cold
soak for 1 day at 40-45 degF, let the must warm up in 60-65 degF closet
while the native yeast does it's job for about 2 days, then inoculate
with minimal (1/2 recommended dosage) yeast and DAP/Fermaid K and let
it gradually warm up as yeast multiply over 3-4 days.
Makes delicious sauv blanc that way. Total ferment takes a week or two.
Am I doing something wrong?

Gene

You have to be careful about adding DAP or any other nutrient towards
the end of ferment. It is recommened not to add below 4 Baume, as this
leaves unprocessed nitrogen at the end, and makes the wine unpleasant.
If you have a stuck ferment, the best options are to re-innoculate,
with a rescue culture. That is to add in 1 1/2 - 2 times the amount you
started with. If possible use a more vigourous yeast strain.

Hope this helps!


gene
Jan 19, 6:05 am show options

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.winemaking
From: gene > - Find messages by this author
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:05:18 GMT
Local: Thurs, Jan 19 2006 6:05 am
Subject: Stuck Primary Fermintation- Non starting
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse

Might be fermenting so slow also if yeast is nutrient-starved
(commercial winery terminology is YANC = Yeast Available Nitrogen
Concentration). You'd be surprised how little active yeast it takes
to
get a decent fermentation going when the yeast has the proper
nutrition.


Ron, might not hurt to give it a tad of yeast nutrient... mebbe 1
teaspoon per gallon of DAP (DiAmmoniumPhosphate), plus mebbe a 1/2
teaspoon per gallon of Fermaid K two days later.


I agree with Bill that the cooler, slow ferment will yield a fruitier
Gewurtz... that would be my personal preference, too.


Gene

A very good comment, clare; thank you. I had intepreted that the
original poster was early in the ferment, but you're totally right; one
should read the degBrix/specific gravity to know where in the ferment
you are before attempting additions. It does make a big difference here.
If the yeast are still alive but sick/dormant, sometimes adding yeast
hulls will make them happy. Sometimes a yeast re-inoculation in one
step; sometimes multi-step; sometimes need the more vigorous yeast like
Prise de Mousse or Premier Cuvee or Epernay II if the alcohol in the
wine is up in the low/mid teens already.

Gene

wrote:
> You have to be careful about adding DAP or any other nutrient towards
> the end of ferment. It is recommened not to add below 4 Baume, as this
> leaves unprocessed nitrogen at the end, and makes the wine unpleasant.
> If you have a stuck ferment, the best options are to re-innoculate,
> with a rescue culture. That is to add in 1 1/2 - 2 times the amount you
> started with. If possible use a more vigourous yeast strain.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
>
> gene
> Jan 19, 6:05 am show options
>
> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.winemaking
> From: gene > - Find messages by this author
> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:05:18 GMT
> Local: Thurs, Jan 19 2006 6:05 am
> Subject: Stuck Primary Fermintation- Non starting
> Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
> original | Report Abuse
>
> Might be fermenting so slow also if yeast is nutrient-starved
> (commercial winery terminology is YANC = Yeast Available Nitrogen
> Concentration). You'd be surprised how little active yeast it takes
> to
> get a decent fermentation going when the yeast has the proper
> nutrition.
>
>
> Ron, might not hurt to give it a tad of yeast nutrient... mebbe 1
> teaspoon per gallon of DAP (DiAmmoniumPhosphate), plus mebbe a 1/2
> teaspoon per gallon of Fermaid K two days later.
>
>
> I agree with Bill that the cooler, slow ferment will yield a fruitier
> Gewurtz... that would be my personal preference, too.
>
>
> Gene
>

ok guys and gals. I added another yeast packet (premier cuvee) to the
bucket yesterday and boy its taking off today.

it took 7 days to go.

My next question would be should I rack this thing and keep it in a
carboy for 6 months before bottling or bottle it when its ready?

this is a 4 week kit.

usually fruit wines are to be consumed soon when ready before they lose
there flavor.

any way to extend the range on this?

thanks to all who responded and helped me with this stuck fermintation.
I learned alot.

-Ron
Northern Ca

I'm assuming this is the Gewurtztraminer wine we're still talking about...

The most important parameters in my experience for maintaining
fruitiness after primary ferment a
1) rack into airlocked container when the wine is still fermenting but
not foaming significantly, typically with sugar level 5-9 degBrix (1.015
to 1.033 specific gravity) [so last part of fermentation generates
enough CO2 in airlocked container to purge oxygen from the headspace]
2) minimize the headspace in the airlocked container (just enough to
allow for expansion from rising temperature, about 3/4 inch to 1 inch in
the neck of the container below the bottom of the stopper), and
3) Maintaining adequate level of SO2 antioxidant in the wine. This
is pH dependent, but general rule of thumb is 20-50 ppm free SO2
minimum, 100-150 ppm free SO2 maximum. I personally prefer 20-50ppm. as
I don't like the taste of potassium metabisulfite. Others prefer little
or no SO2 because they're allergic to it. The higher end of the range
will protect the fruitiness more, but at the price of tasting the SO2.

Keeping the temperature constant during aging is more important than
what temperature stored; daily fluctuations of 2deg F or less are ideal,
but it's a do what you can proposition. I put my wine in an interior
closet, with additional containers full of water around the wine
container to act as thermal mass, minimizing temp fluctuation.
Ideal storage temperature is 59-62 degF, though up to 70degF will do,
just remember that the chemical reaction rates increase about twice for
every 18degF increase. The higher the temperature, the quicker the aging.

Aging whites 9 months to a year generally improves flavor. Not to say
you can't drink them sooner. The fruitiness does decline, but we're
talking usually 2-3 years before noticeable decline if the pH and acid
and sulfite levels were OK to start with. High pH (above 3.7) or low
acid (below 0.5) and low SO2 (below 20ppm at bottling time) will be
accompanied by shortened life.

The volume of wine being aged also affects the aging process. A 5
gallon carboy of wine bulk ages slower than a 1 gallon carboy, due to
the greater thermal mass minimizing temperature fluctuation and the
smaller headspace to wine volume ratio.

As always, what I expressed here are my own experience and opinions, YMMV.

Gene


R C Jr. wrote:

> ok guys and gals. I added another yeast packet (premier cuvee) to the
> bucket yesterday and boy its taking off today.
>
> it took 7 days to go.
>
> My next question would be should I rack this thing and keep it in a
> carboy for 6 months before bottling or bottle it when its ready?
>
> this is a 4 week kit.
>
> usually fruit wines are to be consumed soon when ready before they lose
> there flavor.
>
> any way to extend the range on this?
>
> thanks to all who responded and helped me with this stuck fermintation.
> I learned alot.
>
> -Ron
> Northern Ca
>

Hi Gene,

Yes, still on the Gewurtz.

I will be storing this in a walk in refrigerator at my friends brew
shop. its at a constant 65 Degrees.

thanks for the response back.

-Ron

(gene) Wrote:

I'm assuming this is the Gewurtztraminer wine we're still talking
about...

Ideal storage temperature is 59-62 degF, though up to 70degF

Gene

R C Jr. wrote:

ok guys and gals. I added another yeast packet (premier cuvee) to the
bucket yesterday and boy its taking off today.

it took 7 days to go.

My next question would be should I rack this thing and keep it in a
carboy for 6 months before bottling or bottle it when its ready?

this is a 4 week kit.

usually fruit wines are to be consumed soon when ready before they lose
there flavor.

any way to extend the range on this?

thanks to all who responded and helped me with this stuck fermintation.
I learned alot.
-Ron
Northern Ca