How do screw caps do for longer term storage/bottle aging..... compared to
cork?
Yeah, I know they don't allow for the minimal air transfer in and out, but I
wonder just how "air tight" they really are.

Robert

They are supposed to have a better air seal and a longer life than
corks.

They just are not very romantic.

And.. my cork screw is hard to get into them.

Droopy wrote:
> They are supposed to have a better air seal and a longer life than
> corks.
>
> They just are not very romantic.
>

That whole air transfer story is probably not correct anyway. If a
corked bottle is stored properly with a quality cork and the seal is
good there is no reason or way for air to get in.

The better machine applied screw caps are often considered to be good
wine closures. Cheap plastic ones may not be good for several years.
There is a better plastic one but I don't use it for wine so have no
opinion on it. It is reusable and has an inner plastic seal, I use it
on vinegar.

All that said, I am using Nomacorq now and really like them. I have no
idea how long they are good for, the literature says 3 years as I
recall.
Joe

Bigger problem is getting new screw caps. In general, each type of
screw top bottle uses a different top.

For example, I cannot find new tops for Wild Vines bottles. New tops
for Arbor Mist bottles (unless they have changed in the last 2-3
years) are available from many wine making shops.

Steve


On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:37:37 GMT, "Robert Lewis" >
wrote:

>How do screw caps do for longer term storage/bottle aging..... compared to
>cork?
>Yeah, I know they don't allow for the minimal air transfer in and out, but I
>wonder just how "air tight" they really are.
>
> Robert
>

Ray, I thought air could and did travel slowly through the cork itself.

Everything I have read says the newer screw caps are best at this and
the synthetics are worst.

Now the debate is whether complete closure is always desirable.

A number of studies have shown that screw caps are superior to corks or any
other seal. But all the studies used special screw caps that are NOT
screwed on. They are molded on the bottle by a special machine. The
machine is VERY expensive and no home winemaker is going to have one.

So how good are the types of screw caps you would have access to? No one
knows.

Ray

"Robert Lewis" > wrote in message
link.net...
> How do screw caps do for longer term storage/bottle aging..... compared to
> cork?
> Yeah, I know they don't allow for the minimal air transfer in and out, but
> I wonder just how "air tight" they really are.
>
> Robert
>

On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:44:53 GMT, "Ray Calvert"
> wrote:

>A number of studies have shown that screw caps are superior to corks or any
>other seal. But all the studies used special screw caps that are NOT
>screwed on. They are molded on the bottle by a special machine. The
>machine is VERY expensive and no home winemaker is going to have one.
>
>So how good are the types of screw caps you would have access to? No one
>knows.
>
>Ray


Ray:

Not only don't we know about them, but thy also fit very few
commercial screw top bottles.

Steve

Ray -

I heard Randal Graham (winemaker at Bonny Doon, a now all
screw-cap winery) speak about a month ago, including answering a
question on screwcaps. His studies have shown that screwcaps aren't
truly airtight, but they are much tighter seals than corks, so they
slow down whatever the aging process that may go on in the bottle. How
much slower he couldn't and wouldn't say, and he made no claim on
synthetic cork. He did seriously badmouth agglomerated corks (as did a
couple other winemakers).

Air certainly can get through a cork, just as it can get through a
barrel.

Steve > wrote:
> "Ray Calvert" > wrote:

>> A number of studies have shown that screw caps are superior
>> to corks or any other seal. But all the studies used special
>> screw caps that are NOT screwed on. They are molded on the
>> bottle by a special machine. The machine is VERY expensive
>> and no home winemaker is going to have one.
>>
>> So how good are the types of screw caps you would have access
>> to? No one knows.

> Not only don't we know about them, but thy also fit very few
> commercial screw top bottles.

Alas there is the Carlo Rossi screw cap 4 litre bottle. You
transfer the contents to two 2 litre soda bottles, label them,
and give them as presents. Sanitize the bottle and the cap and
you have a winner.

I use them as 4L carboys.

Dick

Alas there is the Carlo Rossi screw cap 4 litre bottle.

But if you can't find any empties, you gotta drink the stuff
first!...uggh!

Buy some Carlo Rossi Chablis. Add oak chips. Afer a month bottle. Not bad
Chardonnay. Plus, you have a nice gallon bottle for winemaking. I've used
Carlo Rossi Chablis to test different types and amounts of oak cubes, chips,
extract, etc. Works quite well.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Alas there is the Carlo Rossi screw cap 4 litre bottle.
>
> But if you can't find any empties, you gotta drink the stuff
> first!...uggh!
>

> wrote:

> Alas there is the Carlo Rossi screw cap 4 litre bottle.
>
> But if you can't find any empties, you gotta drink the stuff
> first!...uggh!

The bad news is I went to two liquor stores and put up notices
that I would pay $2 each for empties - no takers.

Dick

I buy that stuff to cook with.

I have a ton of 4 liter bottles that I got from the recycling bins
here. I stopped grabbing them I have so many. I might have to revisit
that though since I do not make as many 5-6 gallon batches
anymore....once you get 5 gallons of 10 different wines bottled they
start to build up year after year after year...plus a lot of wine I
make anymore you really don't need more than 5 bottles of.....like
parsley wine.

Wow. Reading the thread and see your note. I use Carlo Rossi Chablis for
Sangria during the summer. But I like Chardonnay with lots of buttery
and oaky taste. How much oak chips do you use?
This sounds cool. DAve

William Frazier wrote:
> Buy some Carlo Rossi Chablis. Add oak chips. Afer a month bottle. Not bad
> Chardonnay. Plus, you have a nice gallon bottle for winemaking. I've used
> Carlo Rossi Chablis to test different types and amounts of oak cubes, chips,
> extract, etc. Works quite well.
>
> Bill Frazier
> Olathe, Kansas USA
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>>Alas there is the Carlo Rossi screw cap 4 litre bottle.
>>
>>But if you can't find any empties, you gotta drink the stuff
>>first!...uggh!
>>
>
>
>

Dave - I'm doing some experiments with different oaks and amounts. With
StaVin American medium toast cubes at 11 grams per US gallon I got a
definite oak aroma and flavor. My notes say "just about right". I
increased to 22 grams per gallon. Still not too much for me...Big oak aroma
and flavor...not too woody. With World Cooperage French oak chips, the
recommended dose of 4 grams per gallon only provided a slight oak flavor and
not much aroma. At 12 grams per gallon the wine had a nice oak aroma, low
oak flavor and was fruity and tart. At 20 grams per gallon very nice oak
aroma and big oak flavor which over powered the fruit flavor. BTW, Carlo
Rossi Chablis tests at 0.74%TA and 3.24 pH.

I'm trying to get some World Cooperage American oak chips...they are a lot
less expensive than StaVin cubes. But, the Carlo Rossi Chablis, with either
of the oaks tested so far , makes a good oaky white wine if that's what you
like. This approach does not impart the buttery flavor.

My plan is to take the best combination from these tests and oak Chardonnay
made from home grown grapes last fall. If this doesn't do it I'll buy a
small barrel for next year's wine.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA


DAve Allison wrote"I like Chardonnay with lots of buttery and oaky taste.
How much oak chips do you use?

William Frazier wrote "Buy some Carlo Rossi Chablis. Add oak chips."

Thanks for the detailed info. I will give it a try.
Merry Christmas,
DAve

William Frazier wrote:
> Dave - I'm doing some experiments with different oaks and amounts. With
> StaVin American medium toast cubes at 11 grams per US gallon I got a
> definite oak aroma and flavor. My notes say "just about right". I
> increased to 22 grams per gallon. Still not too much for me...Big oak aroma
> and flavor...not too woody. With World Cooperage French oak chips, the
> recommended dose of 4 grams per gallon only provided a slight oak flavor and
> not much aroma. At 12 grams per gallon the wine had a nice oak aroma, low
> oak flavor and was fruity and tart. At 20 grams per gallon very nice oak
> aroma and big oak flavor which over powered the fruit flavor. BTW, Carlo
> Rossi Chablis tests at 0.74%TA and 3.24 pH.
>
> I'm trying to get some World Cooperage American oak chips...they are a lot
> less expensive than StaVin cubes. But, the Carlo Rossi Chablis, with either
> of the oaks tested so far , makes a good oaky white wine if that's what you
> like. This approach does not impart the buttery flavor.
>
> My plan is to take the best combination from these tests and oak Chardonnay
> made from home grown grapes last fall. If this doesn't do it I'll buy a
> small barrel for next year's wine.
>
> Bill Frazier
> Olathe, Kansas USA
>
>
> DAve Allison wrote"I like Chardonnay with lots of buttery and oaky taste.
> How much oak chips do you use?
>
> William Frazier wrote "Buy some Carlo Rossi Chablis. Add oak chips."
>
>

OK. Experiment complete! I converted grams to ounces, so I think 22
grams is 1.5 ounces. I "oak chipped" the gallon of Chablis for 30 days
with 1.5 ounces of American oak chips. I am pouring it tonight - and I
must say, pretty good. So I bottled up four 750ml bottles and have the
gallon jug for other experiments. Pretty good if it is served real cold.
First glass needed an ice cube (I know, heresy)but I am pleased with the
result. Much better than Chablis (which is good only in a Peach/Mango
Sangria I make for my wife)straight.
I am still new at all this, so don't do TA and PH testing, maybe that is
my next purchase.

DAve

p.s. Still missing that buttery finish, anyone know how to add that? :*)

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/31/health/31nutr.html

Here's to our health.

DAve Allison wrote:
> Thanks for the detailed info. I will give it a try.
> Merry Christmas,
> DAve
>
> William Frazier wrote:
>> Dave - I'm doing some experiments with different oaks and amounts.
>> With StaVin American medium toast cubes at 11 grams per US gallon I
>> got a definite oak aroma and flavor. My notes say "just about
>> right". I increased to 22 grams per gallon. Still not too much for
>> me...Big oak aroma and flavor...not too woody. With World Cooperage
>> French oak chips, the recommended dose of 4 grams per gallon only
>> provided a slight oak flavor and not much aroma. At 12 grams per
>> gallon the wine had a nice oak aroma, low oak flavor and was fruity
>> and tart. At 20 grams per gallon very nice oak aroma and big oak
>> flavor which over powered the fruit flavor. BTW, Carlo Rossi Chablis
>> tests at 0.74%TA and 3.24 pH.
>>
>> I'm trying to get some World Cooperage American oak chips...they are a
>> lot less expensive than StaVin cubes. But, the Carlo Rossi Chablis,
>> with either of the oaks tested so far , makes a good oaky white wine
>> if that's what you like. This approach does not impart the buttery
>> flavor.
>>
>> My plan is to take the best combination from these tests and oak
>> Chardonnay made from home grown grapes last fall. If this doesn't do
>> it I'll buy a small barrel for next year's wine.
>>
>> Bill Frazier
>> Olathe, Kansas USA
>>
>>
>> DAve Allison wrote"I like Chardonnay with lots of buttery and oaky
>> taste. How much oak chips do you use?
>>
>> William Frazier wrote "Buy some Carlo Rossi Chablis. Add oak chips."
>>

Butterinuess is caused by a couple different things.

Diacetyl a product of fermentation has a buttery aroma and flavor.
MLF, which turns malic acid into lactic acid gives a "buttery" flavor
as well.
Some buttery texture and flavor is associated with sur lie aging,
although the primary flavor from that is a yeasty/bready flavor.

DAve Allison wrote:
> OK. Experiment complete! I converted grams to ounces, so I think 22
> grams is 1.5 ounces.

I may have missed something earlier in this thread, but I'm pretty sure
that 22 grams = 0.776027163 of an ounce.

eyy! I googled just now and I think you are right.

1 grams = 0.0352739619 ounces

ghez. so I did like 43 grams!! and it's still great to my taste. But I"m
glad I didn't soak it for two months! smile.

Thanks for making me realize the conversion rate. Now I need to add a
gram scale to my list.
DAve

Sam Wigand wrote:
> DAve Allison wrote:
>> OK. Experiment complete! I converted grams to ounces, so I think 22
>> grams is 1.5 ounces.
>
> I may have missed something earlier in this thread, but I'm pretty sure
> that 22 grams = 0.776027163 of an ounce.

Sam Wigand wrote:

> DAve Allison wrote:
>
>>OK. Experiment complete! I converted grams to ounces, so I think 22
>>grams is 1.5 ounces.
>
>
> I may have missed something earlier in this thread, but I'm pretty sure
> that 22 grams = 0.776027163 of an ounce.

Naw, sam, ur calc is correct (454g/16oz = 28.4 grams per ounce)
dave is using new math LOL