I have a friend that owns a relatively new winery. He is growing
several varieties common to the Midwest, one of which is Chamborcin.
He treats all of his wine and his winery with the utmost of care and
cleanliness.

He had a section of his vineyard that he could not get to and had to
leave hang for about two weeks past everything else. When he brought
in those grapes, he fermented and pressed them with the exact same
timing as all his other Chamborcin.

To make a long story short, he was horrified when a few weeks after
the first raking he tried some of this later Chamborcin and it was
horrible. I was much thinner than any of the other, weak color, and
worst of all, acetic. One thing to note. There was little to no rain
in between these harvests.

What do you think happened? What would make it turn acetic so fast?
Is there any way of saving it or is it 500 gal down the drain?

Berry

> wrote in message
...
> To make a long story short, he was horrified when a few weeks after
> the first raking he tried some of this later Chamborcin and it was
> horrible. I was much thinner than any of the other, weak color, and
> worst of all, acetic. One thing to note. There was little to no rain
> in between these harvests.
>
> What do you think happened? What would make it turn acetic so fast?
> Is there any way of saving it or is it 500 gal down the drain?

I don't know if it's available in his area, but VA can be removed from wine
by crossflow filtration. Essentially, it's the same as reverse osmosis.
Here in California there's a company (maybe more than one) that has trucks
outfitted with this type of filtration equipment. I have no idea what it
costs, but for only 500 gallons it may not be worth it.

What about just going with the flow and making that batch into wine vinegar?
He'd certainly want to keep it well away from his good wines if he opts for
that.

Tom S

I make vinegar out of red hybrids and can tell you it's really good
vinegar. That said, 500 gallons to quarantine and treat differently
might be a pain.

It doesn't sound like it's worth a lot of effort as wine given the
other issues.

I do make it away from everything else as Tom mentions and the
conversion crawls in winter, it needs to be warm to finish.

I assume he tried a small blending trial to see what it's like blended
in with others. (I have read of blending for slight acetic issues but
would not have the nerve to try it.)

Joe


Joe

Tom S ) wrote:

> wrote in message
.. .
>> To make a long story short, he was horrified when a few weeks after
>> the first raking he tried some of this later Chamborcin and it was
>> horrible. I was much thinner than any of the other, weak color, and
>> worst of all, acetic. One thing to note. There was little to no rain
>> in between these harvests.
>>
>> What do you think happened? What would make it turn acetic so fast?
>> Is there any way of saving it or is it 500 gal down the drain?

>I don't know if it's available in his area, but VA can be removed from wine
>by crossflow filtration. Essentially, it's the same as reverse osmosis.
>Here in California there's a company (maybe more than one) that has trucks
>outfitted with this type of filtration equipment. I have no idea what it
>costs, but for only 500 gallons it may not be worth it.

>What about just going with the flow and making that batch into wine vinegar?
>He'd certainly want to keep it well away from his good wines if he opts for
>that.

>Tom S


Hey,

The other thing which has worked for me (I tried it for the first
time this year on some Riesling which got sour rot) to get rid of
acetic VA, and which I'm equally sure is available in the midwest,
is fining with heavy cream.

I did it on the juice, since I knew the grapes were rotten, and it
completely removed the smell. I wasn't inlcined to screw around
with the lot of rotten Riesling, so I avoided bench trials and just
used the legal limit for milk fining, which is 0.2%.

It might be worth a shot.

Dave
************************************************** **************************
Dave Breeden

"David C Breeden" > wrote in message
...
> The other thing which has worked for me (I tried it for the first
> time this year on some Riesling which got sour rot) to get rid of
> acetic VA, and which I'm equally sure is available in the midwest,
> is fining with heavy cream.
>
> I did it on the juice, since I knew the grapes were rotten, and it
> completely removed the smell.

The only trouble with that is he's dealing with wine - not juice. The fat
in the cream will extract alcohol from the wine as well as acetic acid -
perhaps even in preference. Still, I suppose it's worth a try - at least as
a bench trial.

Tom S
www.chateauburbank.com

So what do you think was the cause of all this. What is "sour rot"?

B.

> wrote in message
...
> So what do you think was the cause of all this. What is "sour rot"?

It's a condition where acetobacter starts making vinegar directly from the
juice while the fruit is on the vine. The fruit has to be in pretty bad
physical condition for that to occur because it won't happen unless the skin
of the fruit is breached.

Tom S
www.chateauburbank.com

Tom S ) wrote:
> wrote in message
.. .
>> So what do you think was the cause of all this. What is "sour rot"?

>It's a condition where acetobacter starts making vinegar directly from the
>juice while the fruit is on the vine. The fruit has to be in pretty bad
>physical condition for that to occur because it won't happen unless the skin
>of the fruit is breached.

>Tom S
>www.chateauburbank.com

In our case, sour rot was caused by a wonderful dry, hot summer,
followed by 8 straight days of rain just at ripeness.

Folks in Long Island lost their entire crops. We were lucky to just
3 3 or 4 tons to rot, and to have to do extensive sorting on the
rest.

Dave
************************************************** **************************
Dave Breeden

David C Breeden wrote:
> Tom S ) wrote:
>
>
> wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>>To make a long story short, he was horrified when a few weeks after
>>>the first raking he tried some of this later Chamborcin and it was
>>>horrible. I was much thinner than any of the other, weak color, and
>>>worst of all, acetic. One thing to note. There was little to no rain
>>>in between these harvests.
>>>
>>>What do you think happened? What would make it turn acetic so fast?
>>>Is there any way of saving it or is it 500 gal down the drain?
>
>
>>I don't know if it's available in his area, but VA can be removed from wine
>>by crossflow filtration. Essentially, it's the same as reverse osmosis.
>>Here in California there's a company (maybe more than one) that has trucks
>>outfitted with this type of filtration equipment. I have no idea what it
>>costs, but for only 500 gallons it may not be worth it.
>
>
>>What about just going with the flow and making that batch into wine vinegar?
>>He'd certainly want to keep it well away from his good wines if he opts for
>>that.
>
>
>>Tom S
>
>
>
> Hey,
>
> The other thing which has worked for me (I tried it for the first
> time this year on some Riesling which got sour rot) to get rid of
> acetic VA, and which I'm equally sure is available in the midwest,
> is fining with heavy cream.
>
> I did it on the juice, since I knew the grapes were rotten, and it
> completely removed the smell. I wasn't inlcined to screw around
> with the lot of rotten Riesling, so I avoided bench trials and just
> used the legal limit for milk fining, which is 0.2%.
>
> It might be worth a shot.
>
> Dave
> ************************************************** **************************
> Dave Breeden

Kewl trick with heavy cream.... I don't suppose you recovered the
soured cream (now buttermilk) and made pancakes or bread with it?

Gene

Tom S wrote:

> > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>To make a long story short, he was horrified when a few weeks after
>>the first raking he tried some of this later Chamborcin and it was
>>horrible. I was much thinner than any of the other, weak color, and
>>worst of all, acetic. One thing to note. There was little to no rain
>>in between these harvests.
>>
>>What do you think happened? What would make it turn acetic so fast?
>>Is there any way of saving it or is it 500 gal down the drain?
>
>
> I don't know if it's available in his area, but VA can be removed from wine
> by crossflow filtration. Essentially, it's the same as reverse osmosis.
> Here in California there's a company (maybe more than one) that has trucks
> outfitted with this type of filtration equipment. I have no idea what it
> costs, but for only 500 gallons it may not be worth it.
>
> What about just going with the flow and making that batch into wine vinegar?
> He'd certainly want to keep it well away from his good wines if he opts for
> that.

Indeed, this might be an additional product from the winery. In the
spirit of turning lemons into lemonade, perhaps bad wine might make good
vinegar, and more happy customers.


AP