I know this will sound insane but I have a 5 gallon barrel that is
untoasted; I have been using it for about a year. I HATE the flavor it
imparts. For lack of a better word, it's 'green'.

Short of continuing to use it and rotating wines through faster, would
a hot soak in sal soda be a good way to leach out the flavor? I am
thinking I want the other benefits of aging in oak and will just use
beans for flavoring. I want to be able to concentrate wine in it, so i
need to let it sit for months. Doing that now is an exercise in
futility.

I thought about taking it apart and toasting it but decided I stood a
better chance of ruining it that way. It was a gift so I want to use
it but think it is of no value at this point.

I have considered making it my vinegar barrel but think it's too early
for that...

Joe

Well.... there is a way to toast the inside without taking off the head.

Borrowing from my days of baking out ultrahigh vacuum chambers...
A quartz lamp 'toaster', using 300-500 watt halogen bulb, properly
mounted by one end, slipped in thru the bung hole (i.e. hanging in the
barrel with the bung hole facing up) would do the trick.
I don't advocate 'average Joe' making one of these toasters... too easy
to electrocute onesself or burn down the house if done improperly.

Gene



Joe Sallustio wrote:
> I know this will sound insane but I have a 5 gallon barrel that is
> untoasted; I have been using it for about a year. I HATE the flavor it
> imparts. For lack of a better word, it's 'green'.
>
> Short of continuing to use it and rotating wines through faster, would
> a hot soak in sal soda be a good way to leach out the flavor? I am
> thinking I want the other benefits of aging in oak and will just use
> beans for flavoring. I want to be able to concentrate wine in it, so i
> need to let it sit for months. Doing that now is an exercise in
> futility.
>
> I thought about taking it apart and toasting it but decided I stood a
> better chance of ruining it that way. It was a gift so I want to use
> it but think it is of no value at this point.
>
> I have considered making it my vinegar barrel but think it's too early
> for that...
>
> Joe
>

"gene" > wrote in message
. ..
> Well.... there is a way to toast the inside without taking off the head.
>
> Borrowing from my days of baking out ultrahigh vacuum chambers...
> A quartz lamp 'toaster', using 300-500 watt halogen bulb, properly mounted
> by one end, slipped in thru the bung hole (i.e. hanging in the barrel with
> the bung hole facing up) would do the trick.
> I don't advocate 'average Joe' making one of these toasters... too easy
> to electrocute onesself or burn down the house if done improperly.

That's an interesting idea, but that's different from the way wine barrels
are actually toasted during their manufacture.

The barrel is toasted by an oak fire, and the inside surface is occasionally
swabbed with water to prevent it from catching fire. The combination of
fire and water softens the wood to allow the staves to be bent into the
barrel shape.

Odds are that Joe's barrel was bent by steam rather than fire, and that the
wood had been kiln dried rather than air dried. It takes several years of
outdoor air drying to season wood properly so that the harsh tannins are
leached out and the wood is suitable for making wine barrels. Barrels made
from kiln dried wood are usually meant for aging whiskey (and cheap whiskey
at that!) and are not suitable for wine.

It may be possible to either toast his barrel or leach it chemically to
alter its flavor profile, but either way is a gamble. Several changes of
very hot water and extended soaking might do the trick more gently.

Tom S

Gene, Tom,
Thanks, I'm and electronics guy so I know what Gene is getting at. I
doubt I could get away with getting a lamp in there without blowing up
the bulb. I did try running a heat gun in the bung originally. I just
did not have enough energy to do anything useful.

I have a turbo torch and thought about taking one end off and toasting
it with that but the fuel is all wrong, I might end up with the taste
of burnt acetylene whatever that would taste like.

I am thinking of pulling off a head and hitting it with the heat gun
though. I'm pretty sure I can get to 700 F with mine, and can get my
hands on a hotter one. I can try the gun on the outside first to see
what I am getting into.

I'm sure Tom is right about this being bent with steam, it's not a very
pretty barrel to be honest. The one thing I am pretty sure of is I
don't want to put any more wine in it as is. I just don't like it. The
safer play may be the hot water soaks, I need to get the bulk of the
wine out of the surface if I am going to try to toast it anyway.

Thanks,
Joe

Joe - I bought a 5 gallon (also a 10 gallon) barrel some years ago. At
first these small barrels oaked wine very fast...weeks to a month or so.
Now these barrels do not impart any oak flavor to wine. I add oak chips to
the barrel for the flavor but like the other attributes of barrel aging.
Perhaps you could make up a 10 or 12% alcohol solution using Everclear and
maybe some low quality wine. Fill the barrel and let it sit for a few
months or how ever it takes to leach out the bad flavor.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA


"Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I know this will sound insane but I have a 5 gallon barrel that is
> untoasted; I have been using it for about a year. I HATE the flavor it
> imparts. For lack of a better word, it's 'green'.
>
> Short of continuing to use it and rotating wines through faster, would
> a hot soak in sal soda be a good way to leach out the flavor? I am
> thinking I want the other benefits of aging in oak and will just use
> beans for flavoring. I want to be able to concentrate wine in it, so i
> need to let it sit for months. Doing that now is an exercise in
> futility.
>
> I thought about taking it apart and toasting it but decided I stood a
> better chance of ruining it that way. It was a gift so I want to use
> it but think it is of no value at this point.
>
> I have considered making it my vinegar barrel but think it's too early
> for that...
>
> Joe
>

Hi Bill,
That's good news. That's where I want to get it, to neutral. I don't
need a vinegar barrel, I use carboys and just throw in my depleted
chips or beans. I don't know if they contribute to flavor but at least
it makes me feel good, it ends up being great vinegar. I want to use
this for wine.

Joe


William Frazier wrote:
> Joe - I bought a 5 gallon (also a 10 gallon) barrel some years ago. At
> first these small barrels oaked wine very fast...weeks to a month or so.
> Now these barrels do not impart any oak flavor to wine. I add oak chips to
> the barrel for the flavor but like the other attributes of barrel aging.
> Perhaps you could make up a 10 or 12% alcohol solution using Everclear and
> maybe some low quality wine. Fill the barrel and let it sit for a few
> months or how ever it takes to leach out the bad flavor.
>
> Bill Frazier
> Olathe, Kansas USA
>
>
> "Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >I know this will sound insane but I have a 5 gallon barrel that is
> > untoasted; I have been using it for about a year. I HATE the flavor it
> > imparts. For lack of a better word, it's 'green'.
> >
> > Short of continuing to use it and rotating wines through faster, would
> > a hot soak in sal soda be a good way to leach out the flavor? I am
> > thinking I want the other benefits of aging in oak and will just use
> > beans for flavoring. I want to be able to concentrate wine in it, so i
> > need to let it sit for months. Doing that now is an exercise in
> > futility.
> >
> > I thought about taking it apart and toasting it but decided I stood a
> > better chance of ruining it that way. It was a gift so I want to use
> > it but think it is of no value at this point.
> >
> > I have considered making it my vinegar barrel but think it's too early
> > for that...
> >
> > Joe
> >

Joe, is this barrel you been talking about using a blowtorch to be
toasted all this time? I am amazed you still have not done this yet. By
just taking off the top of the barrel, which is actually quite easy &
blast it with a torch, you will have achieved the toasted feel which it
sound like you are after. (Scrape off the white burnt ash before
reassemble.

I have both scraped (with a boat ((varnish)) scraper) and re-toasted
barrels. Not all that hard, just be sure to mark the staves.

SG Brix

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Joe, is this barrel you been talking about using a blowtorch to be
> toasted all this time? I am amazed you still have not done this yet. By
> just taking off the top of the barrel, which is actually quite easy &
> blast it with a torch, you will have achieved the toasted feel which it
> sound like you are after. (Scrape off the white burnt ash before
> reassemble.

If you do this properly there will not be any ash produced. The idea is to
periodically wet the wood during the toasting process so as not to set it on
fire or char the wood. You're trying to carmelize the wood sugars - not
turn the thing into briquets.

Be careful around the bunghole or you'll catch it on fire. Might be a good
idea to plug it with aluminum foil during the toasting process.

BTW, toasting is easier to manage if you remove _both_ heads. You may then
opt to toast the heads separately.

Tom S

I'll give it a shot; we have a hoop tool my grandfather used somewhere;
it may get some use this weekend.

Thanks,
Joe


wrote:
> Joe, is this barrel you been talking about using a blowtorch to be
> toasted all this time? I am amazed you still have not done this yet. By
> just taking off the top of the barrel, which is actually quite easy &
> blast it with a torch, you will have achieved the toasted feel which it
> sound like you are after. (Scrape off the white burnt ash before
> reassemble.
>
> I have both scraped (with a boat ((varnish)) scraper) and re-toasted
> barrels. Not all that hard, just be sure to mark the staves.
>
> SG Brix

"Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I'll give it a shot; we have a hoop tool my grandfather used somewhere;
> it may get some use this weekend.

Be sure to take the barrel apart one end at a time, replacing the hoops
after removing each head, or you'll end up with a jigsaw puzzle on your
hands. You'll need to loosen the hoops on the opposite end from the head
you're removing. Not a bad idea to mark everything so that you get the
heads back in the correct orientation.

BTW, a wet barrel is easier to work with than one that has dried out. I'm
not sure why that is. Also, you may find that chalk will help keep the
hoops from slipping until you can get the nails in place.

Tom S

Thanks Tom. I'll mark it all and put an arrow on each stave to make
sure I put it together correctly. I'm assuming using a torch on it's
ok and I can draw it together with a ratchet strap once I get it
toasted.

Joe

Tom S wrote:
> "Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > I'll give it a shot; we have a hoop tool my grandfather used somewhere;
> > it may get some use this weekend.
>
> Be sure to take the barrel apart one end at a time, replacing the hoops
> after removing each head, or you'll end up with a jigsaw puzzle on your
> hands. You'll need to loosen the hoops on the opposite end from the head
> you're removing. Not a bad idea to mark everything so that you get the
> heads back in the correct orientation.
>
> BTW, a wet barrel is easier to work with than one that has dried out. I'm
> not sure why that is. Also, you may find that chalk will help keep the
> hoops from slipping until you can get the nails in place.
>
> Tom S

"Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thanks Tom. I'll mark it all and put an arrow on each stave to make
> sure I put it together correctly. I'm assuming using a torch on it's
> ok and I can draw it together with a ratchet strap once I get it
> toasted.

You draw it together by hammering the hoops tight. You can tell when it's
tight because the head will ring when you rap on it with a knuckle. At
least that's how it works on 60 gallon barrels. Since it's a small barrel,
maybe only your dog will hear it. ;^)

Tom S