I think I'm going to enter the world of oak barrels and would like some
advice on a couple of quick questions.

First, top up reserve. What should I plan on having around for the
initial batch, and subsequent (in %).

Second, the size I purchase may be driven off of the answer to the
first question, but I'm torn between 30L (8 gal) and 55L (14.5 gal).
My preference is the larger, but that's going a little high on my
preferred volume range (for one varietal, anyway). The question is I
expect a 30L to provide benefit, but will the 55L be *that* much better
in the long run regarding length of storage, quality, etc.

thanks for any help.

Patrick

Patrick wrote:

> I think I'm going to enter the world of oak barrels and would like some
> advice on a couple of quick questions.
>
> First, top up reserve. What should I plan on having around for the
> initial batch, and subsequent (in %).
>
> Second, the size I purchase may be driven off of the answer to the
> first question, but I'm torn between 30L (8 gal) and 55L (14.5 gal).
> My preference is the larger, but that's going a little high on my
> preferred volume range (for one varietal, anyway). The question is I
> expect a 30L to provide benefit, but will the 55L be *that* much better
> in the long run regarding length of storage, quality, etc.
>
> thanks for any help.
>
> Patrick

My 120 Liter barrel requires approximately 1/3 bottle a week to keep topped
up.

I would go with the largest barrel.
The smaller the barrel the faster they will contribute oak to your wine -
too fast for small barrels.

Remember also - Keep your pH on the low side. I keep mine at less than 3.5
Also remember that your barrel "breathes" so you need to keep real good
check on your free SO2. You are spending some bucks on a barrel and you
don't want carelessness on your part ruining your barrel so keep it topped
up and monitor free SO2 otherwise you may grow some stuff in there that
will make your barrel useful for a flower pot only.

On 17 Sep 2005 12:09:53 -0700, "Patrick" > wrote:

>I think I'm going to enter the world of oak barrels and would like some
>advice on a couple of quick questions.
>
>


I should have mentioned ... when I bought the barrels new... I filled
them with water and baking soda and set them otrside in the sun in the
summer for 2 months. This gave them plenty of time to swell and seal
fully and also to cook the outside to look well distressed and used.

cheers
the islander

On 17 Sep 2005 12:09:53 -0700, "Patrick" > wrote:

>I think I'm going to enter the world of oak barrels and would like some
>advice on a couple of quick questions.


I have been using barrels for a cpl of my annual batches of reds for
the last 6-7 years.. I run a normal 20L batch of my local grapes in
the usual glass carboys, Then in 4 or 5 months rack of then rack
again to a 5 gal American Oak barrel, depending upon consumption I
then rack to my dispenser Keg (20L Oak barrel) which has a spigot.
Usually every evening before dinner I go downstairs and fill the
decanter, for dinner. Much to the horror of many here I don't worry
about air intake. The amount of oxidation I get is not worth the
hassle. I just makes for a good oak flavour which I love and an easy
system of dispensing at the same time.

A cpl of years back during a family emergency and our absence I had a
mess appear in my dispensing keg... Full of slime and yuck. I rinsed
several times with boiling water, sloshed a strong solution of meta
bisulfate, and rinsed again with boiling water.. Rinsed over and over
until there was no detection of odor. I then ran a really cheep kit
wine through it just to make sure... and yes all is back in order.. I
just won, at our fall fair today, second place in class with a bottle
taken from this keg .


cheers
the islander

"Patrick" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I think I'm going to enter the world of oak barrels and would like some
> advice on a couple of quick questions.
>
> First, top up reserve. What should I plan on having around for the
> initial batch, and subsequent (in %).

For a 225 liter barrel you'd need 3 to 4% per year to cover evaporative
losses, plus ?% to cover tasting losses.

For a smaller barrel, I'd estimate a minimum of 6% to 10% or more if you
taste with friends frequently.

> Second, the size I purchase may be driven off of the answer to the
> first question, but I'm torn between 30L (8 gal) and 55L (14.5 gal).

As with many other things, bigger is better.

A couple of other caveats:
(1) Always keep your barrel(s) topped completely full. Headspace is where
bad things happen.
(2) Be sure to maintain your free SO2 - and remember that free SO2 slowly
_drops_ over time in a barrel. That's not the case in carboys. You need to
check the free SO2 periodically (every 2 or 3 months) and adjust it as
necessary.
(3) No matter what anyone tells you, DO NOT do any chemical
"pre-conditioning" of a new barrel! You'd just end up dumping the best part
of that expen$ive oak flavor down the drain. When you first go to fill the
barrel, fill it with cold water to see if it's tight. If it leaks, let it
sit until it stops leaking. When you see that it isn't leaking, empty the
water _immediately_ and fill the barrel with wine (or juice if you're doing
a barrel fermentation).
(4) If at all possible, keep your barrel(s) full of wine. If you have to
empty a barrel, you need to blast as much sediment and tartrates from it as
possible (hot water through a pistol grip nozzle into a bunghole-down barrel
works pretty well). When the water runs clean, drain the barrel, burn a
sulfur disk in it and bung it tight. Before bunging the barrel, put a
couple of layers of Saran Wrap over the bung to protect it from the SO2
vapors. (SO2 is death on rubber.) When you need the barrel again, it'll be
sweet, but it may have loosend up enough to leak. Repeating the rinsing and
gassing process every couple or three months can prevent that from
happening. Storing the empty barrel in a cool, relatively humid place helps
too.

HTH

Tom S

Patrick,
One last thing, if you are getting smaller barrels make sure they are
toasted; I got an untoasted one as a gift and in all honesty I don't
care for it's flovor profile. Cheap guy that I am, I use it anyway but
add some oak beans to round out the flavor. Barrels do other things
besides impart oak as you already know.


Joe

I appreciate the feedback. I believe I'll be pursuing the 55L. Guess
I'm going to need more wine

I was happy, however, to hear 6 - 10% for reserve. I feared a larger
number.

Thanks to all,
Patrick

If you are looking at that Hungarian it's a nice barrel; I use European
(which is Hungarian) oak beans and like them.

Joe


Patrick wrote:
> I appreciate the feedback. I believe I'll be pursuing the 55L. Guess
> I'm going to need more wine
>
> I was happy, however, to hear 6 - 10% for reserve. I feared a larger
> number.
>
> Thanks to all,
> Patrick

"Patrick" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I appreciate the feedback. I believe I'll be pursuing the 55L. Guess
> I'm going to need more wine
>
> I was happy, however, to hear 6 - 10% for reserve. I feared a larger
> number.
>
> Thanks to all,
> Patrick

One other consideration may be the type of barrel. My French and American
don't evaporate at the same rate. I swore I was going to keep track of this
better, but I 'estimate' a loss of about 7L/year from my 50L French barrel.
Tim

we had 4+ gals top off for our 60 gal Hungarian/French/Californian barrel.
After 11 months, we've used about 3 gals (plus quoffables for the cellar
gnomes) over 10 months.Maybe we drink more than we top off.... regards,
bobby gavone



"Tim O'Connor" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Patrick" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>>I appreciate the feedback. I believe I'll be pursuing the 55L. Guess
>> I'm going to need more wine
>>
>> I was happy, however, to hear 6 - 10% for reserve. I feared a larger
>> number.
>>
>> Thanks to all,
>> Patrick
>
> One other consideration may be the type of barrel. My French and American
> don't evaporate at the same rate. I swore I was going to keep track of
> this better, but I 'estimate' a loss of about 7L/year from my 50L French
> barrel.
> Tim
>
>

Patrick, here is a good article on the analysis of topping amounts and
topping frequency for different barrels(new & used, french and
american): http://www.jordanwinery.com/images/a...ob%20Davis.pdf

-David

Patrick wrote:
> I think I'm going to enter the world of oak barrels and would like some
> advice on a couple of quick questions.
>
> First, top up reserve. What should I plan on having around for the
> initial batch, and subsequent (in %).
>
> Second, the size I purchase may be driven off of the answer to the
> first question, but I'm torn between 30L (8 gal) and 55L (14.5 gal).
> My preference is the larger, but that's going a little high on my
> preferred volume range (for one varietal, anyway). The question is I
> expect a 30L to provide benefit, but will the 55L be *that* much better
> in the long run regarding length of storage, quality, etc.
>
> thanks for any help.
>
> Patrick