I'm just about to start making my first batch of wine. Is it okay to
put the flowers etc in a bucket sealed in a plastic bag for the primary
stage?

Many thanks
flowerpot

If you are talking about putting a plastic bag over the bucket for the first
week or less of fermentation, during that stage you do not need to seal the
bucket. It is sufficient to just cover it with cloth to keep bugs out. I
just cover it with a clean towel.

Ray

"flowerpot" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I'm just about to start making my first batch of wine. Is it okay to
> put the flowers etc in a bucket sealed in a plastic bag for the primary
> stage?
>
> Many thanks
> flowerpot
>

It defeats the purpose if you seal the primary fermentation bucket in a plastic
bag.

You need air for the primary fermentation so the yeast can multiply quickly.


Best Regards,
Wannabe
=======

"Ray Calvert" > wrote in message
. ..
: If you are talking about putting a plastic bag over the bucket for the first
: week or less of fermentation, during that stage you do not need to seal the
: bucket. It is sufficient to just cover it with cloth to keep bugs out. I
: just cover it with a clean towel.
:
: Ray
:
: "flowerpot" > wrote in message
: oups.com...
: > I'm just about to start making my first batch of wine. Is it okay to
: > put the flowers etc in a bucket sealed in a plastic bag for the primary
: > stage?
: >
: > Many thanks
: > flowerpot
: >
:
:

WannabeSomeone wrote:
> It defeats the purpose if you seal the primary fermentation bucket in a plastic
> bag.
>
> You need air for the primary fermentation so the yeast can multiply quickly.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Wannabe
> =======
>

But I thought contact with oxygen had to be limited and the must should
be protected beneath a blanket of carbon dioxide?

flowerpot

In early stages, yeast need O2 to reproduce. When you make wine from fruit,
you keep it in a vat or primary and several times a day you stir the cap
(the fruit pulp that rises to the top) down. This prevents mold from
growing on the pulp and it aerates the must. After about 3 to 7 days the
cap will fall, which means it stops rising back to the top. After this
point it becomes much more important to protect it from O2 so you put it
under a airlock from that point on.

Another way to put it is that the end products of fermentation need to be
protected from O2. Those are not present at the beginning of fermentation.
But after a few days you must start protecting it. With fruit wines, the
indicator people use to determine when you must start protecting it is the
cap falling. With wines made from pure juice, it is up to you as to when
you start protecting it.

Ray

"flowerpot" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> WannabeSomeone wrote:
>> It defeats the purpose if you seal the primary fermentation bucket in a
>> plastic
>> bag.
>>
>> You need air for the primary fermentation so the yeast can multiply
>> quickly.
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Wannabe
>> =======
>>
>
> But I thought contact with oxygen had to be limited and the must should
> be protected beneath a blanket of carbon dioxide?
>
> flowerpot
>

Thanks for the explanation, Ray. I had assumed there would be enough
dissolved oxygen already present in the liquid for the yeast.

Many thanks
flowerpot

Hi Folks

Speaking of oxygen, I have another question. I make fruits wines and I'm
wondering about the transfer from primary to secondary. Since my wines all
have a cap, I pour my wine from primary through a few layers of cheese cloth
into a sanitized bucket and then I rack it into secondary. Is this the
right way to do it ? Is there a big risk of putting to much oxygen in the
wine ? Should I add some metabisulfite even if I did put some in the must
just a week before ?

Thanks !
Marc


"Ray Calvert" > a écrit dans le message de
. ..
> In early stages, yeast need O2 to reproduce. When you make wine from
fruit,
> you keep it in a vat or primary and several times a day you stir the cap
> (the fruit pulp that rises to the top) down. This prevents mold from
> growing on the pulp and it aerates the must. After about 3 to 7 days the
> cap will fall, which means it stops rising back to the top. After this
> point it becomes much more important to protect it from O2 so you put it
> under a airlock from that point on.
>
> Another way to put it is that the end products of fermentation need to be
> protected from O2. Those are not present at the beginning of
fermentation.
> But after a few days you must start protecting it. With fruit wines, the
> indicator people use to determine when you must start protecting it is the
> cap falling. With wines made from pure juice, it is up to you as to when
> you start protecting it.
>
> Ray
>
> "flowerpot" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > WannabeSomeone wrote:
> >> It defeats the purpose if you seal the primary fermentation bucket in a
> >> plastic
> >> bag.
> >>
> >> You need air for the primary fermentation so the yeast can multiply
> >> quickly.
> >>
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Wannabe
> >> =======
> >>
> >
> > But I thought contact with oxygen had to be limited and the must should
> > be protected beneath a blanket of carbon dioxide?
> >
> > flowerpot
> >
>
>

Flowerpot wrote "But I thought contact with oxygen had to be limited and the
must should
> be protected beneath a blanket of carbon dioxide?"

You're right Flowerpot ( do you have a real name...it's hard to talk to a
flowerpot ). Here's a neat trick. Start your wine in an open container
covered with a sheet of plastic or towel like Ray says. This lets enough
air be in contact with the wine so the yeast are happy. Hold a lit match
under the cover and see if it goes out. If it does there's a lot of CO2
being produced by the yeast. Near the end of fermentation you will have to
hold a lit match close to the surface of the wine before it goes out.
That's the time to rack the new wine to a FULL carboy and stick an air lock
on it to protect it from further contact with oxygen.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

Are you talking about putting the bag over the bucket as a kind of
loose seal? If so sure, my grandmother used to make small batches in
bottles with ballons over them. Back then airlocks were made of glass
and she never knew they existed...

You have already gotten a lot of good advice; I just wanted to address
the initial question if I understood it correctly.

Joe

Yes I've always wondered at what stage the yeast fermentation changes from an aerobic stage ( yeast growth) to an anaerobic ( CO2 productoin) stage, and if it was possible to regulate alcohol production from a given amount of sugar by sitrring the must and promoting more of an aerobic response.

I cover with a good cloth and plunge the cap daily. This keeps the cap moist and helps prevent acetobacteria from growing. I also use this stage to extract colour and tannins.

wayne wrote:
> Yes I've always wondered at what stage the yeast fermentation changes
> from an aerobic stage ( yeast growth) to an anaerobic ( CO2 productoin)
> stage, and if it was possible to regulate alcohol production from a
> given amount of sugar by sitrring the must and promoting more of an
> aerobic response.
>

Current information indicates that yeast do not really use respiration
(aerobic) when we're talking about wines. The sugar content in the must
is usually high enough that the yeast favor fermentation because of the
speed at which they can obtain the energy. The only time they really
respire is when there is limited sugar, but in a wine fermentation, by
the time the sugar is depleted to this level, the O2 is gone and the
alcohol is high, so the yeast still favor fermentation.

The old, aerobic vs anaerobic "stages" don't really happen. The
introduction of O2 is really to keep the yeast healthy by giving them
some raw material to help maintain the cell wall during growth. Unless
you significantly underpitch or use unhealthy yeast, there should be
enough disolved O2 in the must just from the crush operation.

Andy