Been doing some research on trellis systems for grapes.

Are there any references that anyone would recommend for
suitablility/fit and application of the different systems? And some
'how to' instruction?

I'm interested in one called a pendlebogen, evidently a German
technique, but can't find more than a dozen hits on it on the net.
The discusions are fairly light on these sites.

TIA

Steve - Noobie
Oregon

spud wrote:

> Been doing some research on trellis systems for grapes.
>
> Are there any references that anyone would recommend for
> suitablility/fit and application of the different systems? And some
> 'how to' instruction?
>
> I'm interested in one called a pendlebogen, evidently a German
> technique, but can't find more than a dozen hits on it on the net.
> The discusions are fairly light on these sites.
>
> TIA
>
> Steve - Noobie
> Oregon

You might try "Sunlight ito Wine" by Richard Smart and Mike Robinson or
"From Vines to Wine" by Cox. I can't recall ever seeing anything about
pendlebogen, however.

"spud" > wrote in message
...
> Been doing some research on trellis systems for grapes.
>
> Are there any references that anyone would recommend for
> suitablility/fit and application of the different systems? And some
> 'how to' instruction?
>
> I'm interested in one called a pendlebogen, evidently a German
> technique, but can't find more than a dozen hits on it on the net.
> The discusions are fairly light on these sites.
>
> TIA
>
> Steve - Noobie
> Oregon
Pendlebogen is a good choice for valuable fruit that is prone to bunch rot
and the like especially in high disease pressure areas.
It is also known as Vertical Shoot Positioning with arched canes. This
newsgroup has listed a number of good viticulture books that describe this
technique in detail. i.e Vines to Wines by Cox, General Viticulture by
Winkler ...
Joe

"spud" > wrote in message
...
> Been doing some research on trellis systems for grapes.
>
> Are there any references that anyone would recommend for
> suitablility/fit and application of the different systems? And some
> 'how to' instruction?
>
> I'm interested in one called a pendlebogen, evidently a German
> technique, but can't find more than a dozen hits on it on the net.
> The discusions are fairly light on these sites.
>
>
A few sites. Your Pendlebogen is mentioned he
http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/hort/f...andstocks.html
http://muextension.missouri.edu/xplo...ort/g06090.htm
http://vitfaq.vinic.com/

Here's a link with good pic of the system...

http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/hort/f.../pnclones.html

CHEERS!!


"spud" > wrote in message
...
> Been doing some research on trellis systems for grapes.
>
> Are there any references that anyone would recommend for
> suitablility/fit and application of the different systems? And some
> 'how to' instruction?
>
> I'm interested in one called a pendlebogen, evidently a German
> technique, but can't find more than a dozen hits on it on the net.
> The discusions are fairly light on these sites.
>
> TIA
>
> Steve - Noobie
> Oregon

Thanks for the responses. Sure appreciate it.

Steve - Noobie
Oregon



>I'm interested in one called a pendlebogen, evidently a German
>technique, but can't find more than a dozen hits on it on the net.
>The discusions are fairly light on these sites.
>
>TIA
>
>Steve - Noobie
>Oregon

Hey noobie,

It's often good to match grapes with the right trellis system. The
pendelbogen is "basically" a VSP but instead of the cane being tied
down to the low wire it's allowed to form an arc before being tied at
the end of the cane to the low wire. One of the "advertised" advantages
is that instead of bud break happening from the end of the cane inward,
bud break starts in the middle of the cane which can result in a more
even growth pattern. There are some varieties not suited to VSP . What
grapes are you growing???

Bob

spud wrote:
> Thanks for the responses. Sure appreciate it.
>
> Steve - Noobie
> Oregon
>
>
>
> >I'm interested in one called a pendlebogen, evidently a German
> >technique, but can't find more than a dozen hits on it on the net.
> >The discusions are fairly light on these sites.
> >
> >TIA
> >
> >Steve - Noobie
> >Oregon

Thanks for the response, Bob. They're all vinifera, Savignon Blanc,
Chardonay, Cabernet Savignon, Gamay.

We have pretty mild winters here, but on occasion do get single digits
in the winter. Certainly would sometime during the life of these
plants.

I suppose I shy away from cordon systems becasue of that and am taken
with pendelbogen because appears to train two trunks, potentially
leaving options open if there is a problem.

Thanks again,
Steve - Noobie
Oregon


wrote:

>Hey noobie,
>
>It's often good to match grapes with the right trellis system. The
>pendelbogen is "basically" a VSP but instead of the cane being tied
>down to the low wire it's allowed to form an arc before being tied at
>the end of the cane to the low wire. One of the "advertised" advantages
>is that instead of bud break happening from the end of the cane inward,
>bud break starts in the middle of the cane which can result in a more
>even growth pattern. There are some varieties not suited to VSP . What
>grapes are you growing???
>
>Bob
>

"spud" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for the response, Bob. They're all vinifera, Savignon Blanc,
> Chardonay, Cabernet Savignon, Gamay.
>
> We have pretty mild winters here, but on occasion do get single digits
> in the winter. Certainly would sometime during the life of these
> plants.
>
> I suppose I shy away from cordon systems becasue of that and am taken
> with pendelbogen because appears to train two trunks, potentially
> leaving options open if there is a problem.
>
>
This may be of interest. This vineyard is in my home town.
http://www.markko.com/trellis.html

Spud ( noobie)

Cordons are fine for Oregon. Actually, cordon pruning is used
extensively in Washington State. Cordons are actually more winter hardy
than canes. You grow 2 trunks which would be "turned at a 90 degree
angle" at the low wire to follow the wire. Cordons are really a "trunk"
that is allowed to grow up and then horizontally (don't be intimidated
by the terminology, they're only plants ) , and there isn't anything
more winter hardy than a trunk!. you could leave 2 buds below the low
wire on the main trunks to grow to canes for "replacements" should the
cordon get zapped in the winter. Just leave room in the middle of each
vines canopies for these canes which would grow straight up into the
above wires. If the cordon is fine next year, prune them back to 1 bud
and start again. Temps in the single digits are really not that low
especially if it only happens rarely. I'm sure you'll have "HUGE"
cordons if those are really the low temps you experience. BTW, there is
a theory that the more old wood on a vine the better for the grapes
which is also why cordon systems are used.

Bob


spud wrote:
> Thanks for the response, Bob. They're all vinifera, Savignon Blanc,
> Chardonay, Cabernet Savignon, Gamay.
>
> We have pretty mild winters here, but on occasion do get single
digits
> in the winter. Certainly would sometime during the life of these
> plants.
>
> I suppose I shy away from cordon systems becasue of that and am taken
> with pendelbogen because appears to train two trunks, potentially
> leaving options open if there is a problem.
>
> Thanks again,
> Steve - Noobie
> Oregon
>
>
> wrote:
>
> >Hey noobie,
> >
> >It's often good to match grapes with the right trellis system. The
> >pendelbogen is "basically" a VSP but instead of the cane being tied
> >down to the low wire it's allowed to form an arc before being tied
at
> >the end of the cane to the low wire. One of the "advertised"
advantages
> >is that instead of bud break happening from the end of the cane
inward,
> >bud break starts in the middle of the cane which can result in a
more
> >even growth pattern. There are some varieties not suited to VSP .
What
> >grapes are you growing???
> >
> >Bob
> >

I am only a hobbiest but one problem I see with cordons is that they would
carry disease pressure forward each year. i.e. all the nooks and crannies
would be nice homes for diseases and insects to overwinter in. Things like
phomposis and the like if present in Oregan could become an issue over time.
Plus the accumulated winter damage. Anytime temps dip below -20C some
damage occurs.
I remember reading that in cool climate you should aim to replace your
trunks after 5 years old. Sounds like a pain but it can be managed with
multiple trunks.

Joe

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Spud ( noobie)
>
> Cordons are fine for Oregon. Actually, cordon pruning is used
> extensively in Washington State. Cordons are actually more winter hardy
> than canes. You grow 2 trunks which would be "turned at a 90 degree
> angle" at the low wire to follow the wire. Cordons are really a "trunk"
> that is allowed to grow up and then horizontally (don't be intimidated
> by the terminology, they're only plants ) , and there isn't anything
> more winter hardy than a trunk!. you could leave 2 buds below the low
> wire on the main trunks to grow to canes for "replacements" should the
> cordon get zapped in the winter. Just leave room in the middle of each
> vines canopies for these canes which would grow straight up into the
> above wires. If the cordon is fine next year, prune them back to 1 bud
> and start again. Temps in the single digits are really not that low
> especially if it only happens rarely. I'm sure you'll have "HUGE"
> cordons if those are really the low temps you experience. BTW, there is
> a theory that the more old wood on a vine the better for the grapes
> which is also why cordon systems are used.
>
> Bob
>
>
> spud wrote:
>> Thanks for the response, Bob. They're all vinifera, Savignon Blanc,
>> Chardonay, Cabernet Savignon, Gamay.
>>
>> We have pretty mild winters here, but on occasion do get single
> digits
>> in the winter. Certainly would sometime during the life of these
>> plants.
>>
>> I suppose I shy away from cordon systems becasue of that and am taken
>> with pendelbogen because appears to train two trunks, potentially
>> leaving options open if there is a problem.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Steve - Noobie
>> Oregon
>>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Hey noobie,
>> >
>> >It's often good to match grapes with the right trellis system. The
>> >pendelbogen is "basically" a VSP but instead of the cane being tied
>> >down to the low wire it's allowed to form an arc before being tied
> at
>> >the end of the cane to the low wire. One of the "advertised"
> advantages
>> >is that instead of bud break happening from the end of the cane
> inward,
>> >bud break starts in the middle of the cane which can result in a
> more
>> >even growth pattern. There are some varieties not suited to VSP .
> What
>> >grapes are you growing???
>> >
>> >Bob
>> >
>

Forgot to comment on your vines. Sauvignon blanc and Cabernet
sauvignon need alot of HEAT to get to the style that you get from
California . You'll love the chardonnay. You'll need to spray for
EVERYTHING. I don't know much about Gamay but if I were you I'd trade
in the sauvignon blanc for some riesling.Also there is a grape called
Lemberger which is cold hardy, good tasting AND shorter growing season
that CS. Sauvignon blanc needs long growing seasons and is very winter
tender. Chardonnay, CS are winter hardy and the Gamay I'm not sure. My
best advise based on MY experience is to grow grapes you'll never have
to worry about in the winter and grapes that ripen in your climate.
I've learned the hard way , I didn't listen and I spent TOO much time
and the heartbreak was painful. You might not experience it right away
BUT if you make the wrong decisions you will experience it, I guarantee
it.


Bob

Hi Bob:

Thanks for the repsonse.

We have ~2,750 heat units here through September. Is that to tight for
Cab or Sav. Blanc? The only reference I have so far says Cab needs
2,500 to 3,000. I guess that is kind of pushing it, isn't it? Not
much room for a crummy year.

Thanks Again,

Steve - Noobie
Oregon






On 1 Feb 2005 10:38:59 -0800, wrote:

>Forgot to comment on your vines. Sauvignon blanc and Cabernet
>sauvignon need alot of HEAT to get to the style that you get from
>California . You'll love the chardonnay. You'll need to spray for
>EVERYTHING. I don't know much about Gamay but if I were you I'd trade
>in the sauvignon blanc for some riesling.Also there is a grape called
>Lemberger which is cold hardy, good tasting AND shorter growing season
>that CS. Sauvignon blanc needs long growing seasons and is very winter
>tender. Chardonnay, CS are winter hardy and the Gamay I'm not sure. My
>best advise based on MY experience is to grow grapes you'll never have
>to worry about in the winter and grapes that ripen in your climate.
>I've learned the hard way , I didn't listen and I spent TOO much time
>and the heartbreak was painful. You might not experience it right away
>BUT if you make the wrong decisions you will experience it, I guarantee
>it.
>
>
>Bob

spud wrote:

> Been doing some research on trellis systems for grapes.
>
> Are there any references that anyone would recommend for
> suitablility/fit and application of the different systems? And some
> 'how to' instruction?
>
> I'm interested in one called a pendlebogen, evidently a German
> technique, but can't find more than a dozen hits on it on the net.
> The discusions are fairly light on these sites.
>
> TIA
>
> Steve - Noobie
> Oregon

You might try "Sunlight ito Wine" by Richard Smart and Mike Robinson or
"From Vines to Wine" by Cox. I can't recall ever seeing anything about
pendlebogen, however.

Any opinions of this book?

"The Grape Grower", Lon Rombough

Thanks
Steve - Noobie
Oregon

spud wrote:

> Any opinions of this book?
>
> "The Grape Grower", Lon Rombough
>
> Thanks
> Steve - Noobie
> Oregon

I have the book. It has some good information about grafting. It is a good
book to have in your library.