Anybody know how to make Balsamic Vinegar?

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Just Brew It!
Johnny Mc

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I thought is may have been made like a wine.....

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Johnny Mc

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"Johnny Mc" > wrote in message
...
> Anybody know how to make Balsamic Vinegar?
>
> --
>
> Just Brew It!
> Johnny Mc
>
> To E-mail me, just cut the "CRAP"!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>

Johnny Mc wrote:
> Anybody know how to make Balsamic Vinegar?
>
Yes you can make a Balsamic STYLE Vinegar, you need a red wine
(prefferably one from Modena, Italy; it is one of those regional style
things), some red wine vingar mother (that would be the bacteria
culture, again find one from Modena) and carboy to convert it in (some
websites sell a speical bottle for the job, but you probably won't need
it, if you can find a galon sized carboy all the better). By searching
Google you can find some websites that talk about it, most wine stores
will order in Vinegar Mother for you (they don't often stock it).

Rules
1) Do not have it in the same room as your wine, in fact keep it as far
away as possible, in another building if possible.
2) Buy a new set of brewing equipment that will only be used for the
vinegar.
3) Do not break rules 1 and 2 or you will most likely infecting all of
your brewing projects.
4) Have Fun.
Ken

Ken Vale wrote:
> Johnny Mc wrote:
> > Anybody know how to make Balsamic Vinegar?
> >
> Yes you can make a Balsamic STYLE Vinegar, you need a red wine
> (prefferably one from Modena, Italy; it is one of those regional
style
> things),

I believe Balsamic vinegar is made from white grape (Trebbiano) juice.

> some red wine vingar mother (that would be the bacteria
> culture, again find one from Modena) and carboy to convert it in
(some
> websites sell a speical bottle for the job, but you probably won't
need
> it, if you can find a galon sized carboy all the better). By
searching
> Google you can find some websites that talk about it, most wine
stores
> will order in Vinegar Mother for you (they don't often stock it).
>

I understand the process to be, crush the grapes (usually late harvest
grapes), run off the free run and heat it to concentrate the must. It
is then aged for 12 years or more in progressively smaller barrels made
of different types of wood. I think oak, cherry, chestnut, ash and
mulberry are usually used but each maker may have their own preference.


It's kind of like a solera system where some of the vinegar from the
smallest barrel is bottled and the barrel is filled from the next
largest. That barrel is then filled from the next largest and so on
until the largest barrel is filled from freshly boiled must.

I think the largest barrel really contains the yeast and bacteria to
convert the sugar to alcohol and then the alcohol to acid, but some
makers may do this in tanks before it hits the barrels. The rest of the
barrel regime is done to concentrate the vinegar further. Fluctuating
temperatures help this along so the barrels a traditionally stores in
attics rather than cellars.

BTW, this is from reading, I've never made it but am interested in the
process since I really like good Balsamic.


Andy

> Yes you can make a Balsamic STYLE Vinegar, you need a red wine
> (prefferably one from Modena, Italy; it is one of those regional style
> things), some red wine vingar mother (that would be the bacteria culture,
> again find one from Modena) and carboy to convert it in (some websites
> sell a speical bottle for the job, but you probably won't need it, if you
> can find a galon sized carboy all the better). By searching Google you can
> find some websites that talk about it, most wine stores will order in
> Vinegar Mother for you (they don't often stock it).
>
> Rules
> 1) Do not have it in the same room as your wine, in fact keep it as far
> away as possible, in another building if possible.
> 2) Buy a new set of brewing equipment that will only be used for the
> vinegar.
> 3) Do not break rules 1 and 2 or you will most likely infecting all of
> your brewing projects.
> 4) Have Fun.
> Ken

I noticed you said Balsamic STYLE Vinegar, that will suffice.
I will do some reading and give it a try.
I guess I can order some red wine vinegar mother online.
I have lots of 1 gallon carboys and bubblers.
Where to put it away from my wines and beers is the question.
Can I let it convert in my living room, will it have a strong odor?
So, are you saying it is impossible to kill vinegar mother?
If so, I don't know if I want it in my house!!!
One other thing, would you want a sweet or dry wine?

Thanks a Million
--

Just Brew It!
Johnny Mc

To E-mail me, just cut the "CRAP"!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>> Yes you can make a Balsamic STYLE Vinegar, you need a red wine
>> (prefferably one from Modena, Italy; it is one of those regional
> style
>> things),
>
> I believe Balsamic vinegar is made from white grape (Trebbiano) juice.
>
>> some red wine vingar mother (that would be the bacteria
>> culture, again find one from Modena) and carboy to convert it in
> (some
>> websites sell a speical bottle for the job, but you probably won't
> need
>> it, if you can find a galon sized carboy all the better). By
> searching
>> Google you can find some websites that talk about it, most wine
> stores
>> will order in Vinegar Mother for you (they don't often stock it).
>>
>
> I understand the process to be, crush the grapes (usually late harvest
> grapes), run off the free run and heat it to concentrate the must. It
> is then aged for 12 years or more in progressively smaller barrels made
> of different types of wood. I think oak, cherry, chestnut, ash and
> mulberry are usually used but each maker may have their own preference.
>
>
> It's kind of like a solera system where some of the vinegar from the
> smallest barrel is bottled and the barrel is filled from the next
> largest. That barrel is then filled from the next largest and so on
> until the largest barrel is filled from freshly boiled must.
>
> I think the largest barrel really contains the yeast and bacteria to
> convert the sugar to alcohol and then the alcohol to acid, but some
> makers may do this in tanks before it hits the barrels. The rest of the
> barrel regime is done to concentrate the vinegar further. Fluctuating
> temperatures help this along so the barrels a traditionally stores in
> attics rather than cellars.
>
> BTW, this is from reading, I've never made it but am interested in the
> process since I really like good Balsamic.
>
>
> Andy
>

12 years is to long for a salad dressing.........

--

Just Brew It!
Johnny Mc

To E-mail me, just cut the "CRAP"!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johnny Mc wrote:
> I noticed you said Balsamic STYLE Vinegar, that will suffice.
> I will do some reading and give it a try.
> I guess I can order some red wine vinegar mother online.
> I have lots of 1 gallon carboys and bubblers.
> Where to put it away from my wines and beers is the question.
> Can I let it convert in my living room, will it have a strong odor?
> So, are you saying it is impossible to kill vinegar mother?
> If so, I don't know if I want it in my house!!!
> One other thing, would you want a sweet or dry wine?
>
> Thanks a Million

Well you know how some wines are named after a grape and others after a
region, I got the impression this was the case with Balasmic Vinegar, I
could be wrong though (I do know Modena, Italy is famous for it).
I don't think it has to strong an odor when I tried to make a batch in
my laundry room I didn't notice an odor, but it didn't work out so it
could just have been a dud.
Vinegar Mother is not unkillable it is just one of the bugs that spoils
wine/beer/cider/mead/etc, the less chances you take with the stuff the
better. It is really hard to effectively clean things like siphon hoses,
the less chance of an accident happening the less chance you have of
discovering that you now have 6 galons of shiraz vinegar (I'd have
problems using up that much wine, I have no clue what I would do with
that much vinegar), let alone if it hit everything you are making.
Vinegar Mother is airborn (like most contamenents) which is why you want
it in another room.
As for a sweet or dry wine I don't think it really matters, Vinegar
Mother will convert alcohol or sugar to vinegar, it is just easier with
alcohol. Just like fermenting will change the flavor of grape juice,
Vinegar will change the flavor of the wine. Once the alcohol has been
converted then you can adjust the flavor to suite yourself, you may need
to cut the wine with water to lower the alcohol content. I'm sure there
are much better directions on the net, this is just what I remember from
two years back.
Ken

Johnny Mc wrote:
> >
>
> 12 years is to long for a salad dressing.........
>
> --

But good balsamic is rarely used in salad dressing. It is thick, sweet
and has a very strong flavor. It only takes a drop or two. The stuff
you buy in grocery stores for $3 is a poor imitation of good balsamic
but works ok for oil and vinager salad dressing.

Andy

> Anybody know how to make Balsamic Vinegar?
>
> --
>
> Just Brew It!
> Johnny Mc
>
> To E-mail me, just cut the "CRAP"!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>

I saw several brands of Balsamic Vinegar at the grocery store yesterday for
about $3 each. Surely it is not true Balsamic Vinegar!

--

Just Brew It!
Johnny Mc

To E-mail me, just cut the "CRAP"!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

They are surely not true balsamic. They are vinegar with additives
(some sugar and other flavors - I've read what they are and I forget
what they are at the moment) to mimic true balsamic vinegars. The
time, storage, and shipping from Modena, Italy, would be over
$3/bottle. Real, authentic balsamic sells more like perfume, little
tiny bottles for lots of money. But there's nothing like it...

Rob

They are surely not true balsamic. They are vinegar with additives
(some sugar and other flavors - I've read what they are and I forget
what they are at the moment) to mimic true balsamic vinegars. The
time, storage, and shipping from Modena, Italy, would be over
$3/bottle. Real, authentic balsamic sells more like perfume, little
tiny bottles for lots of money. But there's nothing like it...

Rob

"Johnny Mc" > wrote in message
...
> > Anybody know how to make Balsamic Vinegar?
> >
> > --
> >
> > Just Brew It!
> > Johnny Mc
> >
> > To E-mail me, just cut the "CRAP"!
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
>
> I saw several brands of Balsamic Vinegar at the grocery store yesterday
for
> about $3 each. Surely it is not true Balsamic Vinegar!
>
Did you look to see where it was made? Virtually anything can now be
bought in the US, made in Romania or Moldova or some other tiny country you
never heard of....

> --
>
> Just Brew It!
> Johnny Mc
>
> To E-mail me, just cut the "CRAP"!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>

It's not made from red, it's white and concentrated prior to
fermenting. All vinegars have an odor, I doubt you want to do this in
a living room. It's not made from wine, it's made frome concentrated
Trebbiano juice, another name for Trebbiano is Ugni Blanc.


True balsamics are really thick and do take years to make. They sell
it in tiny bottles. The stuff used for cooking and salads can come
from Modena but is really not the same thing. It's made in huge
stainless vats. You could experiment with different vinegars and
honey, they usually add carmelized sugar to get the cheaper stuff
colored brown.

I make vinegar but not balsamic. Mothers are tough but can be killed
with heat, they hate sulfite too.

Joe



> Can I let it convert in my living room, will it have a strong odor?
> So, are you saying it is impossible to kill vinegar mother?
> If so, I don't know if I want it in my house!!!
> One other thing, would you want a sweet or dry wine?
>
> Thanks a Million
> --
>
> Just Brew It!
> Johnny Mc
>
> To E-mail me, just cut the "CRAP"!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>> Can I let it convert in my living room, will it have a strong odor?
>> So, are you saying it is impossible to kill vinegar mother?
>> If so, I don't know if I want it in my house!!!
>> One other thing, would you want a sweet or dry wine?
>>
>> Thanks a Million
>> --
>>
>> Just Brew It!
>> Johnny Mc
>>
>> To E-mail me, just cut the "CRAP"!
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
"Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> It's not made from red, it's white and concentrated prior to
> fermenting. All vinegars have an odor, I doubt you want to do this in
> a living room. It's not made from wine, it's made frome concentrated
> Trebbiano juice, another name for Trebbiano is Ugni Blanc.
>
>
> True balsamics are really thick and do take years to make. They sell
> it in tiny bottles. The stuff used for cooking and salads can come
> from Modena but is really not the same thing. It's made in huge
> stainless vats. You could experiment with different vinegars and
> honey, they usually add carmelized sugar to get the cheaper stuff
> colored brown.
>
> I make vinegar but not balsamic. Mothers are tough but can be killed
> with heat, they hate sulfite too.
>
> Joe
>
>
>


Well, I think I have been scared off from bringing that Mother into my
house. I believe I am more looking for the cheap salad dressing Balsamic
vinegar taste. I probably have never tasted the real deal!

--

Just Brew It!
Johnny Mc

To E-mail me, just cut the "CRAP"!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's not an issue really. I make wine in another room, that's all. I
have been making vinergar for at least 4 years and haven't had a
problem... (yet). )

I use seperate racking tubing and never take the vinegar into the
winemaking area, other that that I really don't take any special
precautions. I can with distilled vinegar in the winemaking area, but
that's not the same thing, if it's distilled it _should_ be dead.

If you are looking for a good salad vinegar, you may want to consider
starting with a heavy red wine. I had a bunch of Chancellor that was
really tannic and had a TA of around 7 g/l; it wasn't undrinkable but
would have taken several year to be pleasant to most people. That's if
it ever came around, some times you wait all that time and all you have
is the same wine, only older. It made incredible salad vinegar, I bet
if I added some honey it might approximate what you are looking for.
I'll try it and get back to you.

Joe

Ok, I tried it. You may want to try this in a small batch:

Take 3 parts red wine and add 2 parts honey, warm it up in a microwave
or on the stove to help the honey dissolve. I did not use white wine
vinegar since mine just seems to taste a little flat, the red had more
body and more 'zing' to it.

(I used 150 ml of red wine vinegar and added honey to 250 ml.)

I don't know what to call it but it's pretty good at 06:30 in the
morning here... It has a thin syrup consistency and is brownish red,
my vinegar starts out pretty dark to begin with.

I use a lot of oak in my wines, more than most references call for. It
works out to about a cupful of oak beans or chips, 125 to 150 grams to
5 gallons US of red wine. Our wine is more like some Australian reds,
we like a lot of oak in them. If you use store bought vinegar for an
experiment that might me the major difference between something
homemade, I'm not to sure they use oak in commercial red wine vinegar.
I'll try it on salad a little later, but I'm sure it will be good.

It's not balsamic or made like balsamic, but it's decent.

Hope that helps.

Joe

> Ok, I tried it. You may want to try this in a small batch:
>
> Take 3 parts red wine and add 2 parts honey, warm it up in a microwave
> or on the stove to help the honey dissolve. I did not use white wine
> vinegar since mine just seems to taste a little flat, the red had more
> body and more 'zing' to it.
>
> (I used 150 ml of red wine vinegar and added honey to 250 ml.)
>
> I don't know what to call it but it's pretty good at 06:30 in the
> morning here... It has a thin syrup consistency and is brownish red,
> my vinegar starts out pretty dark to begin with.
>
> I use a lot of oak in my wines, more than most references call for. It
> works out to about a cupful of oak beans or chips, 125 to 150 grams to
> 5 gallons US of red wine. Our wine is more like some Australian reds,
> we like a lot of oak in them. If you use store bought vinegar for an
> experiment that might me the major difference between something
> homemade, I'm not to sure they use oak in commercial red wine vinegar.
> I'll try it on salad a little later, but I'm sure it will be good.
>
> It's not balsamic or made like balsamic, but it's decent.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Joe
>

Thanks Joe,

You convinced me to investigate the vinegar making again. You have my mouth
watering!
One problem I have is I don't want to pay $10 just for the mother of
vinegar, which is how much the online wine suppliers charge and then you
have shipping. Like you said, Distilled vinegar may not work, but what about
the Balsamic imitations. You think I could culture the bacteria from one of
them? Or, just pour a little in some red wine and see if it converts to
vinegar? About how long does it take to convert to vinegar?

--

Just Brew It!
Johnny Mc

To E-mail me, just cut the "CRAP"!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It might be hard to get live vinegar in a regular store, I would bet
it's been pastuerized even if it's not distilled. Most people refer to
the 'glop' that as the mother, but I'm pretty sure that is just
cellulose. The entire batch is really the mother.

You may be able to get some live vinegar in a health food store. I
thought I got mine for around $4 to $6, but we have local winemaking
shops here. I've probably made 20 or 30 gallons with it, it's pretty
popular.

The proportions usually used are one part live vinegar, one part water
2 parts wine. It takes a few months to convert.

Email me if things don't work out.

Joe




> One problem I have is I don't want to pay $10 just for the mother of
> vinegar, which is how much the online wine suppliers charge and then
you
> have shipping. Like you said, Distilled vinegar may not work, but
what about
> the Balsamic imitations. You think I could culture the bacteria from
one of
> them? Or, just pour a little in some red wine and see if it converts
to
> vinegar? About how long does it take to convert to vinegar?
>
> --
>
> Just Brew It!
> Johnny Mc
>
> To E-mail me, just cut the "CRAP"!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>> One problem I have is I don't want to pay $10 just for the mother of
>> vinegar, which is how much the online wine suppliers charge and then
> you
>> have shipping. Like you said, Distilled vinegar may not work, but
> what about
>> the Balsamic imitations. You think I could culture the bacteria from
> one of
>> them? Or, just pour a little in some red wine and see if it converts
> to
>> vinegar? About how long does it take to convert to vinegar?
>>
>> --
>>
>> Just Brew It!
>> Johnny Mc
>>
>> To E-mail me, just cut the "CRAP"!
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>"Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> It might be hard to get live vinegar in a regular store, I would bet
> it's been pastuerized even if it's not distilled. Most people refer to
> the 'glop' that as the mother, but I'm pretty sure that is just
> cellulose. The entire batch is really the mother.
>
> You may be able to get some live vinegar in a health food store. I
> thought I got mine for around $4 to $6, but we have local winemaking
> shops here. I've probably made 20 or 30 gallons with it, it's pretty
> popular.
>
> The proportions usually used are one part live vinegar, one part water
> 2 parts wine. It takes a few months to convert.
>
> Email me if things don't work out.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>

Thanks Joe

--

Johnny Mc
I Make My Own Damn Wine!

To E-mail me, get rid of the "MEGA-SWILL"
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