wrote:
> Thanks for helping!! I guess the wine is going sour on me, not really
> vinegar??? I started with a "kit" wine and then a juice concentrate
> wine. They just smelled "sour" after secondary fermentation. I top
> off to leave the 2 inch. head space recomended??? I even use bleach
> before "one seep" for cleaning. Our water is very hard, but I use
> reverse osmosis, oterwise our water is not drinkable.
> thanks again, I will not give up!!!
>
> Norm
>
Hi Norm

I've never made a kit wine but kits are designed to make balanced wines.
You say it smells sour. How does it taste? If it doesn't taste sour
then it's probably not sour. When topping up I try to take the wine up
to the bottom of the "knuckle" on a carboy.

As far as cleaning goes, why use bleach? There is a risk of
contamination of TCA. Once the contamination happens it can't be fixed.
Why play a game you can't win?

If you haven't purchased an acid test kit you should do so. It is
inexpensive and will tell you the Total (titratable) Acidity of your
wine. If you can afford it purchase a pH meter so that you will have
that information, too. With these tools you will be able determine if
there are problems and decide on a course of action.

Regards

Frank

"Frank Mirigliano" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
> > Thanks for helping!! I guess the wine is going sour on me, not really
> > vinegar??? I started with a "kit" wine and then a juice concentrate
> > wine. They just smelled "sour" after secondary fermentation. I top
> > off to leave the 2 inch. head space recomended??? I even use bleach
> > before "one seep" for cleaning. Our water is very hard, but I use
> > reverse osmosis, oterwise our water is not drinkable.
> > thanks again, I will not give up!!!
> >
> > Norm
> >
> Hi Norm
> Snip....
> As far as cleaning goes, why use bleach? There is a risk of
> contamination of TCA. Once the contamination happens it can't be fixed. >
Why play a game you can't win?
>Snip.....
> Regards
>
> Frank

Frank,
I'm not sure what you mean by "can't win."
TCA is certainly a potential problem, and some wineries have had terrible
problems caused by chlorine.
On the other hand, bleach is cheap, readily available and hypochlorite
kills everything a winemaker is interested in including spores.
I have been cleaning winery floors since I was 14 (61 years). I have never
experienced a TCA problem, so I continue to use it.
I suppose I will have a catastrophic TCA problem one of these days, and then
I will come over to your side of the fence.
Regards,
Lum
Del Mar, California, USA

>
>
> Frank,
> I'm not sure what you mean by "can't win."
> TCA is certainly a potential problem, and some wineries have had terrible
> problems caused by chlorine.
> On the other hand, bleach is cheap, readily available and hypochlorite
> kills everything a winemaker is interested in including spores.
> I have been cleaning winery floors since I was 14 (61 years). I have never
> experienced a TCA problem, so I continue to use it.
> I suppose I will have a catastrophic TCA problem one of these days, and then
> I will come over to your side of the fence.
> Regards,
> Lum
> Del Mar, California, USA
>
>
>
Hi Lum

What I mean by is once there is a contamination there is, unless I'm
mistaken, no way to salvage the wine. My grandfather used bleach and
(probably) never had a problem, either. But I figure why take the risk.
I use soda ash and triple rinse. It's pretty cheap, too.

OTOH, is there proof that TCA production is a result of using bleach?
Maybe I'm worrying about nothing.

Regards

Frank
Greensburg, PA

"Frank Mirigliano" > wrote in message
...
>
> >
> >
> > Frank,
> > I'm not sure what you mean by "can't win."
> > TCA is certainly a potential problem, and some wineries have had
terrible
> > problems caused by chlorine.
> > On the other hand, bleach is cheap, readily available and hypochlorite
> > kills everything a winemaker is interested in including spores.
> > I have been cleaning winery floors since I was 14 (61 years). I have
never
> > experienced a TCA problem, so I continue to use it.
> > I suppose I will have a catastrophic TCA problem one of these days, and
then
> > I will come over to your side of the fence.
> > Regards,
> > Lum
> > Del Mar, California, USA
> >
> >
> >
> Hi Lum
>
> What I mean by is once there is a contamination there is, unless I'm
> mistaken, no way to salvage the wine. My grandfather used bleach and
> (probably) never had a problem, either. But I figure why take the risk.
> I use soda ash and triple rinse. It's pretty cheap, too.
>
> OTOH, is there proof that TCA production is a result of using bleach?
> Maybe I'm worrying about nothing.
>
> Regards
>
> Frank
> Greensburg, PA

Frank,
A large amount of research has been done in the past few years, so I don't
think there is any question about chlorine and TCA.
You are right about sodium carbonate. It does a good job and is
inexpensive.
Lum
Del Mar, California, USA

>
>
> Frank,
> I'm not sure what you mean by "can't win."
> TCA is certainly a potential problem, and some wineries have had terrible
> problems caused by chlorine.
> On the other hand, bleach is cheap, readily available and hypochlorite
> kills everything a winemaker is interested in including spores.
> I have been cleaning winery floors since I was 14 (61 years). I have never
> experienced a TCA problem, so I continue to use it.
> I suppose I will have a catastrophic TCA problem one of these days, and then
> I will come over to your side of the fence.
> Regards,
> Lum
> Del Mar, California, USA
>
>
>
Hi Lum

What I mean by is once there is a contamination there is, unless I'm
mistaken, no way to salvage the wine. My grandfather used bleach and
(probably) never had a problem, either. But I figure why take the risk.
I use soda ash and triple rinse. It's pretty cheap, too.

OTOH, is there proof that TCA production is a result of using bleach?
Maybe I'm worrying about nothing.

Regards

Frank
Greensburg, PA