Well I certainly learned a lesson today.

I had a cabernet all finished sitting in a demijohn, just waiting a
bit to age and bottle. From last years harvest from Lanza Ranch. I
had put it in a room with some Sauvignon Blanc that is just finishing
fermentation, so I was keeping the room cool, about 50 degrees. The
air lock on the cabernet kept draining into the wine as it changed
volume due to changing temperature. So I put a bung in it. Good and
tight.

Today my wife calls me at work to say that there is cabernet all over
the floor! The demijohn cracked, apparently due to pressure due to
temperature changes. 54 liters of fine wine all over the carpet. The
carpet was crap and due to be tossed anyway.

Should a demijohn be able to take the small stresses from temperature
changes when it is bunged tight? Seems weak to me. Anybody else
experience this?

I'm bummed.

Dan

Same thing happened to me right as I was trying to remove the sealed
bung. Look at a 54L demi-john this way : it has the same thickness as
a 750L bottle, but 70 times the volume !!!!!! So just immagine how
weak it is compared to a bottle. Not to mention the fact that at 30$
CAD, you can not expect to have a Murano glass quality either !

My advice, always put airbung.

(Dan Emerson) wrote in message . com>...
> Well I certainly learned a lesson today.
>
> I had a cabernet all finished sitting in a demijohn, just waiting a
> bit to age and bottle. From last years harvest from Lanza Ranch. I
> had put it in a room with some Sauvignon Blanc that is just finishing
> fermentation, so I was keeping the room cool, about 50 degrees. The
> air lock on the cabernet kept draining into the wine as it changed
> volume due to changing temperature. So I put a bung in it. Good and
> tight.
>
> Today my wife calls me at work to say that there is cabernet all over
> the floor! The demijohn cracked, apparently due to pressure due to
> temperature changes. 54 liters of fine wine all over the carpet. The
> carpet was crap and due to be tossed anyway.
>
> Should a demijohn be able to take the small stresses from temperature
> changes when it is bunged tight? Seems weak to me. Anybody else
> experience this?
>
> I'm bummed.
>
> Dan

I'm sorry to hear that; it is a lot to lose. I've had my share of bottles
pop. After spending way to much time cleaning up the messes, I decided
never again. Now, I always stabilize. I don't have a solid bung in my
wine-making supplies - I always use a bung and airlock. I had one batch
which drove me nuts, I would be ready to bottle and it would start perking
again. Then it would stop, then start again....
Darlene

"Dan Emerson" > wrote in message
om...
> Well I certainly learned a lesson today.
>
> I had a cabernet all finished sitting in a demijohn, just waiting a
> bit to age and bottle. From last years harvest from Lanza Ranch. I
> had put it in a room with some Sauvignon Blanc that is just finishing
> fermentation, so I was keeping the room cool, about 50 degrees. The
> air lock on the cabernet kept draining into the wine as it changed
> volume due to changing temperature. So I put a bung in it. Good and
> tight.
>
> Today my wife calls me at work to say that there is cabernet all over
> the floor! The demijohn cracked, apparently due to pressure due to
> temperature changes. 54 liters of fine wine all over the carpet. The
> carpet was crap and due to be tossed anyway.
>
> Should a demijohn be able to take the small stresses from temperature
> changes when it is bunged tight? Seems weak to me. Anybody else
> experience this?
>
> I'm bummed.
>
> Dan

"Dar V" > wrote in message
...
> I'm sorry to hear that; it is a lot to lose. I've had my share of bottles
> pop. After spending way to much time cleaning up the messes, I decided
> never again. Now, I always stabilize.

Stabilizing a dry wine with sorbate isn't necessary, but sulfiting is. His
carboy popped due to pressure change because it was topped full and bunged
tight. Probably blew the bottom out. I've had that happen before, so now I
try to avoid using glass carboys. You won't have that happen with stainless
kegs.

Tom S

Tom,
I appreciate your point that it could be something other than fermentation
beginning again. I have noticed that the wine in my glass carboys contract
and expand depending on the temperature, but I always put a bung & airlock
on them. I guess I don't trust anything I make to put a solid bung in it,
but I gather some do. I'll have to go back and look at the recipes from my
first batches and see how dry they were. I didn't stabilize at all, and I
had problems. Since I started to sulfite and stabilize, I have not had a
problem. Thanks.
Darlene
Wisconsin

"Tom S" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> "Dar V" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I'm sorry to hear that; it is a lot to lose. I've had my share of bottles
>> pop. After spending way to much time cleaning up the messes, I decided
>> never again. Now, I always stabilize.
>
> Stabilizing a dry wine with sorbate isn't necessary, but sulfiting is.
> His carboy popped due to pressure change because it was topped full and
> bunged tight. Probably blew the bottom out. I've had that happen before,
> so now I try to avoid using glass carboys. You won't have that happen
> with stainless kegs.
>
> Tom S
>

"Dar V" > wrote in message >...
> Tom,
> I appreciate your point that it could be something other than fermentation
> beginning again. I have noticed that the wine in my glass carboys contract
> and expand depending on the temperature, but I always put a bung & airlock
> on them. I guess I don't trust anything I make to put a solid bung in it,
> but I gather some do. I'll have to go back and look at the recipes from my
> first batches and see how dry they were. I didn't stabilize at all, and I
> had problems. Since I started to sulfite and stabilize, I have not had a
> problem. Thanks.
> Darlene
> Wisconsin
>

I doubt it's just a temperature difference. I put my carboys with a
solid bung into a fridge to cold stabilize, so they drop rapidly from
22C or so to 3C within a couple of days. And then back again when I
take them out. I've never had a broken carboy this way. The conditions
described in the original post are nowhere close to these type of
temperature changes. I'd suspect a fault in the glass or some type of
instability in the wine (or both).

Also, unless the solid bung is "glued in", it should come out before
the glass gives, so expansion shouldn't cause this anw.

Inverson's book recommends putting solid bung on the wine pretty much
right after it's finished fermenting. He's actually using it - among
other things - to check for microbial stability. I've stopped doing
this now, but more because of degassing problems than fear of losing
the carboys. I'm using the Ferm-Rite airlocks which are great that way
- they basically combine a solid bung with 1-way airlock
functionality, best of both worlds.

Pp

I appreciate your point as well. We all look at what we read here and try
to decipher what we think it could be based on our own experiences. I learn
something new every day.
Darlene

"pp" > wrote in message
om...
> "Dar V" > wrote in message
> >...
>> Tom,
>> I appreciate your point that it could be something other than
>> fermentation
>> beginning again. I have noticed that the wine in my glass carboys
>> contract
>> and expand depending on the temperature, but I always put a bung &
>> airlock
>> on them. I guess I don't trust anything I make to put a solid bung in
>> it,
>> but I gather some do. I'll have to go back and look at the recipes from
>> my
>> first batches and see how dry they were. I didn't stabilize at all, and
>> I
>> had problems. Since I started to sulfite and stabilize, I have not had a
>> problem. Thanks.
>> Darlene
>> Wisconsin
>>
>
> I doubt it's just a temperature difference. I put my carboys with a
> solid bung into a fridge to cold stabilize, so they drop rapidly from
> 22C or so to 3C within a couple of days. And then back again when I
> take them out. I've never had a broken carboy this way. The conditions
> described in the original post are nowhere close to these type of
> temperature changes. I'd suspect a fault in the glass or some type of
> instability in the wine (or both).
>
> Also, unless the solid bung is "glued in", it should come out before
> the glass gives, so expansion shouldn't cause this anw.
>
> Inverson's book recommends putting solid bung on the wine pretty much
> right after it's finished fermenting. He's actually using it - among
> other things - to check for microbial stability. I've stopped doing
> this now, but more because of degassing problems than fear of losing
> the carboys. I'm using the Ferm-Rite airlocks which are great that way
> - they basically combine a solid bung with 1-way airlock
> functionality, best of both worlds.
>
> Pp

"pp" > wrote in message
om...
> I doubt it's just a temperature difference. I put my carboys with a
> solid bung into a fridge to cold stabilize, so they drop rapidly from
> 22C or so to 3C within a couple of days. And then back again when I
> take them out. I've never had a broken carboy this way. The conditions
> described in the original post are nowhere close to these type of
> temperature changes.

That's right, but you're missing the point. In your case you _lowered_ the
temperature. Although they are not recommended for vacuum, carboys can
stand a good deal more negative pressure than positive. Think of their
shape as an arch and you'll probably get what I mean.

OTOH, carboys make very poor pressure vessels.

> Also, unless the solid bung is "glued in", it should come out before
> the glass gives, so expansion shouldn't cause this anw.

Shouldn't is a long way from won't. Those white gum rubber bungs can be
_extremely_ tenacious if they are well seated in the neck of a clean glass
carboy. Sometimes they stick so well that they actually come apart when
removed. I've personally lost at least two carboys that way when the
container warmed a few degrees and the wine had nowhere to go until it blew
out the bottom or side of the carboy. This might not have happened if I'd
left a couple of inches of headspace in the carboy, but I can't bring myself
to do that.

Tom S

"pp" > wrote in message
om...
> "Dar V" > wrote in message
> >...
>> Tom,
>> I appreciate your point that it could be something other than
>> fermentation
>> beginning again. I have noticed that the wine in my glass carboys
>> contract
>> and expand depending on the temperature, but I always put a bung &
>> airlock
>> on them. I guess I don't trust anything I make to put a solid bung in
>> it,
>> but I gather some do. I'll have to go back and look at the recipes from
>> my
>> first batches and see how dry they were. I didn't stabilize at all, and
>> I
>> had problems. Since I started to sulfite and stabilize, I have not had a
>> problem. Thanks.
>> Darlene
>> Wisconsin
>>
>
> I doubt it's just a temperature difference. I put my carboys with a
> solid bung into a fridge to cold stabilize, so they drop rapidly from
> 22C or so to 3C within a couple of days. And then back again when I
> take them out. I've never had a broken carboy this way. The conditions
> described in the original post are nowhere close to these type of
> temperature changes. I'd suspect a fault in the glass or some type of
> instability in the wine (or both).
>
> Also, unless the solid bung is "glued in", it should come out before
> the glass gives, so expansion shouldn't cause this anw.
>
> Inverson's book recommends putting solid bung on the wine pretty much
> right after it's finished fermenting. He's actually using it - among
> other things - to check for microbial stability. I've stopped doing
> this now, but more because of degassing problems than fear of losing
> the carboys. I'm using the Ferm-Rite airlocks which are great that way
> - they basically combine a solid bung with 1-way airlock
> functionality, best of both worlds.
>
> Pp

This is simple hydraulics. If you have a half inch or an inch of head space
then the gas in the head space would absorb the expansion or contraction of
the fluid. If you only have 1/8 inch then there is not much gas and you
could see several atmospheres of pressure change. A good carboy might
withstand this, but if it has ever been bumped and if it has a flaw, then it
may well fail. I have proposed that this could happen in the past and been
told by others that it would not. I never trust it. Sounds like it can
happen.

I appreciate your point as well. We all look at what we read here and try
to decipher what we think it could be based on our own experiences. I learn
something new every day.
Darlene

"pp" > wrote in message
om...
> "Dar V" > wrote in message
> >...
>> Tom,
>> I appreciate your point that it could be something other than
>> fermentation
>> beginning again. I have noticed that the wine in my glass carboys
>> contract
>> and expand depending on the temperature, but I always put a bung &
>> airlock
>> on them. I guess I don't trust anything I make to put a solid bung in
>> it,
>> but I gather some do. I'll have to go back and look at the recipes from
>> my
>> first batches and see how dry they were. I didn't stabilize at all, and
>> I
>> had problems. Since I started to sulfite and stabilize, I have not had a
>> problem. Thanks.
>> Darlene
>> Wisconsin
>>
>
> I doubt it's just a temperature difference. I put my carboys with a
> solid bung into a fridge to cold stabilize, so they drop rapidly from
> 22C or so to 3C within a couple of days. And then back again when I
> take them out. I've never had a broken carboy this way. The conditions
> described in the original post are nowhere close to these type of
> temperature changes. I'd suspect a fault in the glass or some type of
> instability in the wine (or both).
>
> Also, unless the solid bung is "glued in", it should come out before
> the glass gives, so expansion shouldn't cause this anw.
>
> Inverson's book recommends putting solid bung on the wine pretty much
> right after it's finished fermenting. He's actually using it - among
> other things - to check for microbial stability. I've stopped doing
> this now, but more because of degassing problems than fear of losing
> the carboys. I'm using the Ferm-Rite airlocks which are great that way
> - they basically combine a solid bung with 1-way airlock
> functionality, best of both worlds.
>
> Pp

"pp" > wrote in message
om...
> I doubt it's just a temperature difference. I put my carboys with a
> solid bung into a fridge to cold stabilize, so they drop rapidly from
> 22C or so to 3C within a couple of days. And then back again when I
> take them out. I've never had a broken carboy this way. The conditions
> described in the original post are nowhere close to these type of
> temperature changes.

That's right, but you're missing the point. In your case you _lowered_ the
temperature. Although they are not recommended for vacuum, carboys can
stand a good deal more negative pressure than positive. Think of their
shape as an arch and you'll probably get what I mean.

OTOH, carboys make very poor pressure vessels.

> Also, unless the solid bung is "glued in", it should come out before
> the glass gives, so expansion shouldn't cause this anw.

Shouldn't is a long way from won't. Those white gum rubber bungs can be
_extremely_ tenacious if they are well seated in the neck of a clean glass
carboy. Sometimes they stick so well that they actually come apart when
removed. I've personally lost at least two carboys that way when the
container warmed a few degrees and the wine had nowhere to go until it blew
out the bottom or side of the carboy. This might not have happened if I'd
left a couple of inches of headspace in the carboy, but I can't bring myself
to do that.

Tom S

"Dar V" > wrote in message
...
> I'm sorry to hear that; it is a lot to lose. I've had my share of bottles
> pop. After spending way to much time cleaning up the messes, I decided
> never again. Now, I always stabilize.

Stabilizing a dry wine with sorbate isn't necessary, but sulfiting is. His
carboy popped due to pressure change because it was topped full and bunged
tight. Probably blew the bottom out. I've had that happen before, so now I
try to avoid using glass carboys. You won't have that happen with stainless
kegs.

Tom S

(Dan Emerson) wrote in message . com>...
> Well I certainly learned a lesson today.
>
> I had a cabernet all finished sitting in a demijohn, just waiting a
> bit to age and bottle. From last years harvest from Lanza Ranch. I
> had put it in a room with some Sauvignon Blanc that is just finishing
> fermentation, so I was keeping the room cool, about 50 degrees. The
> air lock on the cabernet kept draining into the wine as it changed
> volume due to changing temperature. So I put a bung in it. Good and
> tight.
>
> Today my wife calls me at work to say that there is cabernet all over
> the floor! The demijohn cracked, apparently due to pressure due to
> temperature changes. 54 liters of fine wine all over the carpet. The
> carpet was crap and due to be tossed anyway.
>
> Should a demijohn be able to take the small stresses from temperature
> changes when it is bunged tight? Seems weak to me. Anybody else
> experience this?
>
> I'm bummed.
>
> Dan

Not that it changes anything, but it's quite possible the demijohn
exploded because the wine was expanding rather than contracting. If
your romm was set at constant 50, the Cab would go to that level in 1
day, 2 at most. So after that it wouldn't have any reason to contract
further. It sounds from your description that you had airlock on for a
while before the solid bung. So it's possible the Cab was still
fermenting and the generated CO2 pressure exploded the carboy.

I can't say about demijohns, but I routinely move carboys with a solid
bung into a fridge for cold stabilization. I've also heard of people
using a vacuum pump on carboys to degass without breakage. But yeah,
the glass on demijohns looks pretty fragile to me, so I can see how
there could be a problem, especially it there was a hidden fault in
the glass.

Pp

I guess I posted on this thread, didn't mean to.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't fermenting any more. It might have warmed
up a few degrees. There must have been a hidden flaw. I've had
demijohns with solid bungs outside to cold stabilize them without
problem.

Demijohns actually have pretty thin glass compared to bottles. One of
my demijohns is green glass. When I filled with with fermenting
Sauvignon Blanc wine, there was a thin spot on the glass that became
readily apparent with the brown wine in it. It is scary actually now
that I broke one.



(pp) wrote in message . com>...
> (Dan Emerson) wrote in message . com>...
> > Well I certainly learned a lesson today.
> >
> > I had a cabernet all finished sitting in a demijohn, just waiting a
> > bit to age and bottle. From last years harvest from Lanza Ranch. I
> > had put it in a room with some Sauvignon Blanc that is just finishing
> > fermentation, so I was keeping the room cool, about 50 degrees. The
> > air lock on the cabernet kept draining into the wine as it changed
> > volume due to changing temperature. So I put a bung in it. Good and
> > tight.
> >
> > Today my wife calls me at work to say that there is cabernet all over
> > the floor! The demijohn cracked, apparently due to pressure due to
> > temperature changes. 54 liters of fine wine all over the carpet. The
> > carpet was crap and due to be tossed anyway.
> >
> > Should a demijohn be able to take the small stresses from temperature
> > changes when it is bunged tight? Seems weak to me. Anybody else
> > experience this?
> >
> > I'm bummed.
> >
> > Dan
>
> Not that it changes anything, but it's quite possible the demijohn
> exploded because the wine was expanding rather than contracting. If
> your romm was set at constant 50, the Cab would go to that level in 1
> day, 2 at most. So after that it wouldn't have any reason to contract
> further. It sounds from your description that you had airlock on for a
> while before the solid bung. So it's possible the Cab was still
> fermenting and the generated CO2 pressure exploded the carboy.
>
> I can't say about demijohns, but I routinely move carboys with a solid
> bung into a fridge for cold stabilization. I've also heard of people
> using a vacuum pump on carboys to degass without breakage. But yeah,
> the glass on demijohns looks pretty fragile to me, so I can see how
> there could be a problem, especially it there was a hidden fault in
> the glass.
>
> Pp

"Dan Emerson" > wrote in message
m...
> I guess I posted on this thread, didn't mean to.
>
> I'm pretty sure it wasn't fermenting any more. It might have warmed
> up a few degrees. There must have been a hidden flaw. I've had
> demijohns with solid bungs outside to cold stabilize them without
> problem.
>
> Demijohns actually have pretty thin glass compared to bottles. One of
> my demijohns is green glass. When I filled with with fermenting
> Sauvignon Blanc wine, there was a thin spot on the glass that became
> readily apparent with the brown wine in it. It is scary actually now
> that I broke one.

54 litres is way to big for me to trust any glass bottle; my 23 is about
perfect IMO. If you can't easily move it around by hand, I'd just forget
about it..... That thing's got to weigh 70kg total when filled with must or
wine.

I guess I posted on this thread, didn't mean to.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't fermenting any more. It might have warmed
up a few degrees. There must have been a hidden flaw. I've had
demijohns with solid bungs outside to cold stabilize them without
problem.

Demijohns actually have pretty thin glass compared to bottles. One of
my demijohns is green glass. When I filled with with fermenting
Sauvignon Blanc wine, there was a thin spot on the glass that became
readily apparent with the brown wine in it. It is scary actually now
that I broke one.



(pp) wrote in message . com>...
> (Dan Emerson) wrote in message . com>...
> > Well I certainly learned a lesson today.
> >
> > I had a cabernet all finished sitting in a demijohn, just waiting a
> > bit to age and bottle. From last years harvest from Lanza Ranch. I
> > had put it in a room with some Sauvignon Blanc that is just finishing
> > fermentation, so I was keeping the room cool, about 50 degrees. The
> > air lock on the cabernet kept draining into the wine as it changed
> > volume due to changing temperature. So I put a bung in it. Good and
> > tight.
> >
> > Today my wife calls me at work to say that there is cabernet all over
> > the floor! The demijohn cracked, apparently due to pressure due to
> > temperature changes. 54 liters of fine wine all over the carpet. The
> > carpet was crap and due to be tossed anyway.
> >
> > Should a demijohn be able to take the small stresses from temperature
> > changes when it is bunged tight? Seems weak to me. Anybody else
> > experience this?
> >
> > I'm bummed.
> >
> > Dan
>
> Not that it changes anything, but it's quite possible the demijohn
> exploded because the wine was expanding rather than contracting. If
> your romm was set at constant 50, the Cab would go to that level in 1
> day, 2 at most. So after that it wouldn't have any reason to contract
> further. It sounds from your description that you had airlock on for a
> while before the solid bung. So it's possible the Cab was still
> fermenting and the generated CO2 pressure exploded the carboy.
>
> I can't say about demijohns, but I routinely move carboys with a solid
> bung into a fridge for cold stabilization. I've also heard of people
> using a vacuum pump on carboys to degass without breakage. But yeah,
> the glass on demijohns looks pretty fragile to me, so I can see how
> there could be a problem, especially it there was a hidden fault in
> the glass.
>
> Pp

I guess I posted on this thread, didn't mean to.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't fermenting any more. It might have warmed
up a few degrees. There must have been a hidden flaw. I've had
demijohns with solid bungs outside to cold stabilize them without
problem.

Demijohns actually have pretty thin glass compared to bottles. One of
my demijohns is green glass. When I filled with with fermenting
Sauvignon Blanc wine, there was a thin spot on the glass that became
readily apparent with the brown wine in it. It is scary actually now
that I broke one.



(pp) wrote in message . com>...
> (Dan Emerson) wrote in message . com>...
> > Well I certainly learned a lesson today.
> >
> > I had a cabernet all finished sitting in a demijohn, just waiting a
> > bit to age and bottle. From last years harvest from Lanza Ranch. I
> > had put it in a room with some Sauvignon Blanc that is just finishing
> > fermentation, so I was keeping the room cool, about 50 degrees. The
> > air lock on the cabernet kept draining into the wine as it changed
> > volume due to changing temperature. So I put a bung in it. Good and
> > tight.
> >
> > Today my wife calls me at work to say that there is cabernet all over
> > the floor! The demijohn cracked, apparently due to pressure due to
> > temperature changes. 54 liters of fine wine all over the carpet. The
> > carpet was crap and due to be tossed anyway.
> >
> > Should a demijohn be able to take the small stresses from temperature
> > changes when it is bunged tight? Seems weak to me. Anybody else
> > experience this?
> >
> > I'm bummed.
> >
> > Dan
>
> Not that it changes anything, but it's quite possible the demijohn
> exploded because the wine was expanding rather than contracting. If
> your romm was set at constant 50, the Cab would go to that level in 1
> day, 2 at most. So after that it wouldn't have any reason to contract
> further. It sounds from your description that you had airlock on for a
> while before the solid bung. So it's possible the Cab was still
> fermenting and the generated CO2 pressure exploded the carboy.
>
> I can't say about demijohns, but I routinely move carboys with a solid
> bung into a fridge for cold stabilization. I've also heard of people
> using a vacuum pump on carboys to degass without breakage. But yeah,
> the glass on demijohns looks pretty fragile to me, so I can see how
> there could be a problem, especially it there was a hidden fault in
> the glass.
>
> Pp

"Dan Emerson" > wrote in message
om...
> Well I certainly learned a lesson today.
>
> I had a cabernet all finished sitting in a demijohn, just waiting a
> bit to age and bottle. From last years harvest from Lanza Ranch. I
> had put it in a room with some Sauvignon Blanc that is just finishing
> fermentation, so I was keeping the room cool, about 50 degrees. The
> air lock on the cabernet kept draining into the wine as it changed
> volume due to changing temperature. So I put a bung in it. Good and
> tight.
>
> Today my wife calls me at work to say that there is cabernet all over
> the floor! The demijohn cracked, apparently due to pressure due to
> temperature changes. 54 liters of fine wine all over the carpet. The
> carpet was crap and due to be tossed anyway.
>
> Should a demijohn be able to take the small stresses from temperature
> changes when it is bunged tight? Seems weak to me. Anybody else
> experience this?

I never bung anything, ever; airlocks on anything not bottled.
If the demijohn was glass, yes, the strain builds very quickly and you
hear "PUNG! whooooosh...." as the glass breaks and the wine bursts out.
>
> I'm bummed.
>
> Dan

"Dan Emerson" > wrote in message
om...

>
> Should a demijohn be able to take the small stresses from
temperature
> changes when it is bunged tight? Seems weak to me. Anybody else
> experience this?
>

How much headspace was there? If the liquid expanded to the point
that it was directly in contact with the bung then tremendous pressure
can build up since liquids are not (for all practical purposes)
compressible. This was demonstrated to me once in a chemistry class.
Fill a flask to the very top with liquid and insert a stopper, or
rather try to. A rather light tap on the stopper was sufficient to
burst the flask since the shock was immediately and directly
transmitted to the walls of the flask.

--arne

> I'm bummed.
>
> Dan

I'm sorry to hear that; it is a lot to lose. I've had my share of bottles
pop. After spending way to much time cleaning up the messes, I decided
never again. Now, I always stabilize. I don't have a solid bung in my
wine-making supplies - I always use a bung and airlock. I had one batch
which drove me nuts, I would be ready to bottle and it would start perking
again. Then it would stop, then start again....
Darlene

"Dan Emerson" > wrote in message
om...
> Well I certainly learned a lesson today.
>
> I had a cabernet all finished sitting in a demijohn, just waiting a
> bit to age and bottle. From last years harvest from Lanza Ranch. I
> had put it in a room with some Sauvignon Blanc that is just finishing
> fermentation, so I was keeping the room cool, about 50 degrees. The
> air lock on the cabernet kept draining into the wine as it changed
> volume due to changing temperature. So I put a bung in it. Good and
> tight.
>
> Today my wife calls me at work to say that there is cabernet all over
> the floor! The demijohn cracked, apparently due to pressure due to
> temperature changes. 54 liters of fine wine all over the carpet. The
> carpet was crap and due to be tossed anyway.
>
> Should a demijohn be able to take the small stresses from temperature
> changes when it is bunged tight? Seems weak to me. Anybody else
> experience this?
>
> I'm bummed.
>
> Dan

Same thing happened to me right as I was trying to remove the sealed
bung. Look at a 54L demi-john this way : it has the same thickness as
a 750L bottle, but 70 times the volume !!!!!! So just immagine how
weak it is compared to a bottle. Not to mention the fact that at 30$
CAD, you can not expect to have a Murano glass quality either !

My advice, always put airbung.

(Dan Emerson) wrote in message . com>...
> Well I certainly learned a lesson today.
>
> I had a cabernet all finished sitting in a demijohn, just waiting a
> bit to age and bottle. From last years harvest from Lanza Ranch. I
> had put it in a room with some Sauvignon Blanc that is just finishing
> fermentation, so I was keeping the room cool, about 50 degrees. The
> air lock on the cabernet kept draining into the wine as it changed
> volume due to changing temperature. So I put a bung in it. Good and
> tight.
>
> Today my wife calls me at work to say that there is cabernet all over
> the floor! The demijohn cracked, apparently due to pressure due to
> temperature changes. 54 liters of fine wine all over the carpet. The
> carpet was crap and due to be tossed anyway.
>
> Should a demijohn be able to take the small stresses from temperature
> changes when it is bunged tight? Seems weak to me. Anybody else
> experience this?
>
> I'm bummed.
>
> Dan

(Dan Emerson) wrote in message . com>...
> Well I certainly learned a lesson today.
>
> I had a cabernet all finished sitting in a demijohn, just waiting a
> bit to age and bottle. From last years harvest from Lanza Ranch. I
> had put it in a room with some Sauvignon Blanc that is just finishing
> fermentation, so I was keeping the room cool, about 50 degrees. The
> air lock on the cabernet kept draining into the wine as it changed
> volume due to changing temperature. So I put a bung in it. Good and
> tight.
>
> Today my wife calls me at work to say that there is cabernet all over
> the floor! The demijohn cracked, apparently due to pressure due to
> temperature changes. 54 liters of fine wine all over the carpet. The
> carpet was crap and due to be tossed anyway.
>
> Should a demijohn be able to take the small stresses from temperature
> changes when it is bunged tight? Seems weak to me. Anybody else
> experience this?
>
> I'm bummed.
>
> Dan

Not that it changes anything, but it's quite possible the demijohn
exploded because the wine was expanding rather than contracting. If
your romm was set at constant 50, the Cab would go to that level in 1
day, 2 at most. So after that it wouldn't have any reason to contract
further. It sounds from your description that you had airlock on for a
while before the solid bung. So it's possible the Cab was still
fermenting and the generated CO2 pressure exploded the carboy.

I can't say about demijohns, but I routinely move carboys with a solid
bung into a fridge for cold stabilization. I've also heard of people
using a vacuum pump on carboys to degass without breakage. But yeah,
the glass on demijohns looks pretty fragile to me, so I can see how
there could be a problem, especially it there was a hidden fault in
the glass.

Pp

I'm sorry to hear that; it is a lot to lose. I've had my share of bottles
pop. After spending way to much time cleaning up the messes, I decided
never again. Now, I always stabilize. I don't have a solid bung in my
wine-making supplies - I always use a bung and airlock. I had one batch
which drove me nuts, I would be ready to bottle and it would start perking
again. Then it would stop, then start again....
Darlene

"Dan Emerson" > wrote in message
om...
> Well I certainly learned a lesson today.
>
> I had a cabernet all finished sitting in a demijohn, just waiting a
> bit to age and bottle. From last years harvest from Lanza Ranch. I
> had put it in a room with some Sauvignon Blanc that is just finishing
> fermentation, so I was keeping the room cool, about 50 degrees. The
> air lock on the cabernet kept draining into the wine as it changed
> volume due to changing temperature. So I put a bung in it. Good and
> tight.
>
> Today my wife calls me at work to say that there is cabernet all over
> the floor! The demijohn cracked, apparently due to pressure due to
> temperature changes. 54 liters of fine wine all over the carpet. The
> carpet was crap and due to be tossed anyway.
>
> Should a demijohn be able to take the small stresses from temperature
> changes when it is bunged tight? Seems weak to me. Anybody else
> experience this?
>
> I'm bummed.
>
> Dan

Same thing happened to me right as I was trying to remove the sealed
bung. Look at a 54L demi-john this way : it has the same thickness as
a 750L bottle, but 70 times the volume !!!!!! So just immagine how
weak it is compared to a bottle. Not to mention the fact that at 30$
CAD, you can not expect to have a Murano glass quality either !

My advice, always put airbung.

(Dan Emerson) wrote in message . com>...
> Well I certainly learned a lesson today.
>
> I had a cabernet all finished sitting in a demijohn, just waiting a
> bit to age and bottle. From last years harvest from Lanza Ranch. I
> had put it in a room with some Sauvignon Blanc that is just finishing
> fermentation, so I was keeping the room cool, about 50 degrees. The
> air lock on the cabernet kept draining into the wine as it changed
> volume due to changing temperature. So I put a bung in it. Good and
> tight.
>
> Today my wife calls me at work to say that there is cabernet all over
> the floor! The demijohn cracked, apparently due to pressure due to
> temperature changes. 54 liters of fine wine all over the carpet. The
> carpet was crap and due to be tossed anyway.
>
> Should a demijohn be able to take the small stresses from temperature
> changes when it is bunged tight? Seems weak to me. Anybody else
> experience this?
>
> I'm bummed.
>
> Dan

(Dan Emerson) wrote in message . com>...
> Well I certainly learned a lesson today.
>
> I had a cabernet all finished sitting in a demijohn, just waiting a
> bit to age and bottle. From last years harvest from Lanza Ranch. I
> had put it in a room with some Sauvignon Blanc that is just finishing
> fermentation, so I was keeping the room cool, about 50 degrees. The
> air lock on the cabernet kept draining into the wine as it changed
> volume due to changing temperature. So I put a bung in it. Good and
> tight.
>
> Today my wife calls me at work to say that there is cabernet all over
> the floor! The demijohn cracked, apparently due to pressure due to
> temperature changes. 54 liters of fine wine all over the carpet. The
> carpet was crap and due to be tossed anyway.
>
> Should a demijohn be able to take the small stresses from temperature
> changes when it is bunged tight? Seems weak to me. Anybody else
> experience this?
>
> I'm bummed.
>
> Dan

Not that it changes anything, but it's quite possible the demijohn
exploded because the wine was expanding rather than contracting. If
your romm was set at constant 50, the Cab would go to that level in 1
day, 2 at most. So after that it wouldn't have any reason to contract
further. It sounds from your description that you had airlock on for a
while before the solid bung. So it's possible the Cab was still
fermenting and the generated CO2 pressure exploded the carboy.

I can't say about demijohns, but I routinely move carboys with a solid
bung into a fridge for cold stabilization. I've also heard of people
using a vacuum pump on carboys to degass without breakage. But yeah,
the glass on demijohns looks pretty fragile to me, so I can see how
there could be a problem, especially it there was a hidden fault in
the glass.

Pp