When I finished the initial fermentation and then the second at which the
sedement is mostly left behind and put the wine into the second carboy, I
tried tasting the wine and it certainly didn't taste like anything I'd like
to drink. Does this all improve/change with the aging?

"Tom Kunich" > wrote in message
m...
> When I finished the initial fermentation and then the second at which the
> sedement is mostly left behind and put the wine into the second carboy, I
> tried tasting the wine and it certainly didn't taste like anything I'd
> like to drink. Does this all improve/change with the aging?
>
>
>
Yes, what you're tasting now bears no resemblance to what you get at the
end, it's still, basically, half-fermented fruit juice. You still have some
fermenting to go, the wine has to then be cleared and settled, and you'll be
surprised, even amazed, at the difference!

Stick with it!

If you're using one of the kits, you will be able to drink it straight away
after fining has finished a few weeks hence, although leaving it to stand
does make a difference - I don't wait that long, I find the result is just
as good as basic supermarket drinking plonk, sometimes better.....

Barb

On Feb 28, 5:22*pm, "Barb" > wrote:
> "Tom Kunich" > wrote in message
>
> m...> When I finished the initial fermentation and then the second at which the
> > sedement is mostly left behind and put the wine into the second carboy, I
> > tried tasting the wine and it certainly didn't taste like anything I'd
> > like to drink. Does this all improve/change with the aging?
>
> Yes, what you're tasting now bears no resemblance to what you get at the
> end, it's still, basically, half-fermented fruit juice. *You still have some
> fermenting to go, the wine has to then be cleared and settled, and you'll be
> surprised, even amazed, at the difference!
>
> Stick with it!
>
> If you're using one of the kits, you will be able to drink it straight away
> after fining has finished a few weeks hence, although leaving it to stand
> does make a difference - I don't wait that long, I find the result is just
> as good as basic supermarket drinking plonk, sometimes better.....
>
> Barb

I would add - despite a lot of opinion here - that once the
fermentation has stopped for certain, you're best off fining it
straight away. Racking it when it is completely clear, degassing it
then bottling as soon as possible... My experience has been that
letting fruit wines settle naturally can lead to off flavours and
little improvement compared to bottle aging...

Just my opinion,

Jim

"jim c" > wrote in message
...
>
> I would add - despite a lot of opinion here - that once the
> fermentation has stopped for certain, you're best off fining it
> straight away. Racking it when it is completely clear, degassing it
> then bottling as soon as possible... My experience has been that
> letting fruit wines settle naturally can lead to off flavours and
> little improvement compared to bottle aging...

What do you mean "fining it right away"?

"jim c" > wrote in message
...
On Feb 28, 5:22 pm, "Barb" > wrote:
> "Tom Kunich" > wrote in message
>
> m...> When I finished
> the initial fermentation and then the second at which the
> > sedement is mostly left behind and put the wine into the second carboy,
> > I
> > tried tasting the wine and it certainly didn't taste like anything I'd
> > like to drink. Does this all improve/change with the aging?
>
> Yes, what you're tasting now bears no resemblance to what you get at the
> end, it's still, basically, half-fermented fruit juice. You still have
> some
> fermenting to go, the wine has to then be cleared and settled, and you'll
> be
> surprised, even amazed, at the difference!
>
> Stick with it!
>
> If you're using one of the kits, you will be able to drink it straight
> away
> after fining has finished a few weeks hence, although leaving it to stand
> does make a difference - I don't wait that long, I find the result is just
> as good as basic supermarket drinking plonk, sometimes better.....
>
> Barb

I would add - despite a lot of opinion here - that once the
fermentation has stopped for certain, you're best off fining it
straight away. Racking it when it is completely clear, degassing it
then bottling as soon as possible... My experience has been that
letting fruit wines settle naturally can lead to off flavours and
little improvement compared to bottle aging...

Just my opinion,

Jim

Well I'd certainly disagree. Fining agents can strip flavor and color. It's
far better to let nature take her course and be patient.
Steve

On Mar 10, 9:13*pm, "Steve Peek" > wrote:
> "jim c" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Feb 28, 5:22 pm, "Barb" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Tom Kunich" > wrote in message
>
> om...> When I finished
> > the initial fermentation and then the second at which the
> > > sedement is mostly left behind and put the wine into the second carboy,
> > > I
> > > tried tasting the wine and it certainly didn't taste like anything I'd
> > > like to drink. Does this all improve/change with the aging?
>
> > Yes, what you're tasting now bears no resemblance to what you get at the
> > end, it's still, basically, half-fermented fruit juice. You still have
> > some
> > fermenting to go, the wine has to then be cleared and settled, and you'll
> > be
> > surprised, even amazed, at the difference!
>
> > Stick with it!
>
> > If you're using one of the kits, you will be able to drink it straight
> > away
> > after fining has finished a few weeks hence, although leaving it to stand
> > does make a difference - I don't wait that long, I find the result is just
> > as good as basic supermarket drinking plonk, sometimes better.....
>
> > Barb
>
> I would add - despite a lot of opinion here - that once the
> fermentation has stopped for certain, you're best off fining it
> straight away. *Racking it when it is completely clear, degassing it
> then bottling as soon as possible... *My experience has been that
> letting fruit wines settle naturally can lead to off flavours and
> little improvement compared to bottle aging...
>
> Just my opinion,
>
> Jim
>
> Well I'd certainly disagree. Fining agents can strip flavor and color. It's
> far better to let nature take her course and be patient.
> Steve

Thanks Ben.

That is exactly what I was trying to say. As I say, the majority on
this forum would disagree with me as Steve has. Although winemaking
shop owners in the UK seem to be more or less in agreement with me. I
can't explain the reason for the difference and I most definitely
wouldn't say the members here are wrong, they have many years more
experience than I do on the whole... Although I think I may have some
evidence against it being 'far better to let nature take her course'
when sometimes she deigns to make white fruit wines take so long to
settle naturally that the suspended particles steer the flavour off-
course...

It is certain that fining agents CAN strip flavours and colours. I
would say it is also true that particles left in the wine too long can
impart off flavours and contribute no positive attributes to it. My
belief and personal experience is that for white (non-grape) fruit
wines, better results are achieved on average by fining than not (for
wines which do not settle naturally within a few weeks of fermentation
ending. I recognise my opinion is contentious outside of the UK and
even among some artisan wine makers here. I also recognise that my
belief does not extend beyond white non-grape wines.

Perhaps the reason is that these wines have particularly fragile and
carefully constructed flavours and balances which have to be gauged
just right in order to produce a pleasant and drinkable result. As a
result, perhaps, I'd rather lose an iota of flavour than gain an
undesirable off-taste of any magnitude. To my tastes, QuikKleer
brand (gelatin/kieselsol similar I suspect to Sparkaloid in the
states?) seems to leave the desired flavour intact as far as I can
tell, while removing the yeast and remainders which cause off
flavours.

I submit this as my experience and opinion with my cap respectfully
tipped at that of others here.

Jim

"jim c" > wrote in message
...
On Mar 10, 9:13 pm, "Steve Peek" > wrote:
> "jim c" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Feb 28, 5:22 pm, "Barb" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Tom Kunich" > wrote in message
>
> om...> When I finished
> > the initial fermentation and then the second at which the
> > > sedement is mostly left behind and put the wine into the second
> > > carboy,
> > > I
> > > tried tasting the wine and it certainly didn't taste like anything I'd
> > > like to drink. Does this all improve/change with the aging?
>
> > Yes, what you're tasting now bears no resemblance to what you get at the
> > end, it's still, basically, half-fermented fruit juice. You still have
> > some
> > fermenting to go, the wine has to then be cleared and settled, and
> > you'll
> > be
> > surprised, even amazed, at the difference!
>
> > Stick with it!
>
> > If you're using one of the kits, you will be able to drink it straight
> > away
> > after fining has finished a few weeks hence, although leaving it to
> > stand
> > does make a difference - I don't wait that long, I find the result is
> > just
> > as good as basic supermarket drinking plonk, sometimes better.....
>
> > Barb
>
> I would add - despite a lot of opinion here - that once the
> fermentation has stopped for certain, you're best off fining it
> straight away. Racking it when it is completely clear, degassing it
> then bottling as soon as possible... My experience has been that
> letting fruit wines settle naturally can lead to off flavours and
> little improvement compared to bottle aging...
>
> Just my opinion,
>
> Jim
>
> Well I'd certainly disagree. Fining agents can strip flavor and color.
> It's
> far better to let nature take her course and be patient.
> Steve

Thanks Ben.

That is exactly what I was trying to say. As I say, the majority on
this forum would disagree with me as Steve has. Although winemaking
shop owners in the UK seem to be more or less in agreement with me. I
can't explain the reason for the difference and I most definitely
wouldn't say the members here are wrong, they have many years more
experience than I do on the whole... Although I think I may have some
evidence against it being 'far better to let nature take her course'
when sometimes she deigns to make white fruit wines take so long to
settle naturally that the suspended particles steer the flavour off-
course...

It is certain that fining agents CAN strip flavours and colours. I
would say it is also true that particles left in the wine too long can
impart off flavours and contribute no positive attributes to it. My
belief and personal experience is that for white (non-grape) fruit
wines, better results are achieved on average by fining than not (for
wines which do not settle naturally within a few weeks of fermentation
ending. I recognise my opinion is contentious outside of the UK and
even among some artisan wine makers here. I also recognise that my
belief does not extend beyond white non-grape wines.

Perhaps the reason is that these wines have particularly fragile and
carefully constructed flavours and balances which have to be gauged
just right in order to produce a pleasant and drinkable result. As a
result, perhaps, I'd rather lose an iota of flavour than gain an
undesirable off-taste of any magnitude. To my tastes, QuikKleer
brand (gelatin/kieselsol similar I suspect to Sparkaloid in the
states?) seems to leave the desired flavour intact as far as I can
tell, while removing the yeast and remainders which cause off
flavours.

I submit this as my experience and opinion with my cap respectfully
tipped at that of others here.

Jim

I knew when I made the statement that I should have qualified it. I actually
think we agree more than disagree. I am much more a mazer than a vintner. My
whites are mostly from delicate varietal honey and the object is to capture
same in both nose and taste. Natural clearing is much preferred in this
circumstance.

In fruit wines I can definitely see circumstances requiring fining. Apples,
pears, peaches and plums will drop sediment for a year of longer. Some, if
not treated with enough pectic enzyme, will not clear without fining. Yeast
autolysis and rotting fruit do not add to the drinking pleasure. I must
learn to speak in more general terms.

Apologies & cheers,
Steve

On Mar 11, 4:21*pm, "Steve Peek" > wrote:
> "jim c" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Mar 10, 9:13 pm, "Steve Peek" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "jim c" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > On Feb 28, 5:22 pm, "Barb" > wrote:
>
> > > "Tom Kunich" > wrote in message
>
> > om...> When I finished
> > > the initial fermentation and then the second at which the
> > > > sedement is mostly left behind and put the wine into the second
> > > > carboy,
> > > > I
> > > > tried tasting the wine and it certainly didn't taste like anything I'd
> > > > like to drink. Does this all improve/change with the aging?
>
> > > Yes, what you're tasting now bears no resemblance to what you get at the
> > > end, it's still, basically, half-fermented fruit juice. You still have
> > > some
> > > fermenting to go, the wine has to then be cleared and settled, and
> > > you'll
> > > be
> > > surprised, even amazed, at the difference!
>
> > > Stick with it!
>
> > > If you're using one of the kits, you will be able to drink it straight
> > > away
> > > after fining has finished a few weeks hence, although leaving it to
> > > stand
> > > does make a difference - I don't wait that long, I find the result is
> > > just
> > > as good as basic supermarket drinking plonk, sometimes better.....
>
> > > Barb
>
> > I would add - despite a lot of opinion here - that once the
> > fermentation has stopped for certain, you're best off fining it
> > straight away. Racking it when it is completely clear, degassing it
> > then bottling as soon as possible... My experience has been that
> > letting fruit wines settle naturally can lead to off flavours and
> > little improvement compared to bottle aging...
>
> > Just my opinion,
>
> > Jim
>
> > Well I'd certainly disagree. Fining agents can strip flavor and color.
> > It's
> > far better to let nature take her course and be patient.
> > Steve
>
> Thanks Ben.
>
> That is exactly what I was trying to say. *As I say, the majority on
> this forum would disagree with me as Steve has. * Although winemaking
> shop owners in the UK seem to be more or less in agreement with me. *I
> can't explain the reason for the difference and I most definitely
> wouldn't say the members here are wrong, *they have many years more
> experience than I do on the whole... *Although I think I may have some
> evidence against it being 'far better to let nature take her course'
> when sometimes she deigns to make white fruit wines take so long to
> settle naturally that the suspended particles steer the flavour off-
> course...
>
> It is certain that fining agents CAN strip flavours and colours. *I
> would say it is also true that particles left in the wine too long can
> impart off flavours and contribute no positive attributes to it. *My
> belief and personal experience is that for white (non-grape) fruit
> wines, better results are achieved on average by fining than not (for
> wines which do not settle naturally within a few weeks of fermentation
> ending. *I recognise my opinion is contentious outside of the UK and
> even among some artisan wine makers here. *I also recognise that my
> belief does not extend beyond white non-grape wines.
>
> Perhaps the reason is that these wines have particularly fragile and
> carefully constructed flavours and balances which have to be gauged
> just right in order to produce a pleasant and drinkable result. *As a
> result, perhaps, I'd rather lose an iota of flavour than gain an
> undesirable off-taste of any magnitude. * To my tastes, QuikKleer
> brand (gelatin/kieselsol similar I suspect to Sparkaloid in the
> states?) seems to leave the desired flavour intact as far as I can
> tell, while removing the yeast and remainders which cause off
> flavours.
>
> I submit this as my experience and opinion with my cap respectfully
> tipped at that of others here.
>
> Jim
>
> I knew when I made the statement that I should have qualified it. I actually
> think we agree more than disagree. I am much more a mazer than a vintner. My
> whites are mostly from delicate varietal honey and the object is to capture
> same in both nose and taste. Natural clearing is much preferred in this
> circumstance.
>
> In fruit wines I can definitely see circumstances requiring fining. Apples,
> pears, peaches and plums will drop sediment for a year of longer. Some, if
> not treated with enough pectic enzyme, will not clear without fining. Yeast
> autolysis and rotting fruit do not add to the drinking pleasure. I must
> learn to speak in more general terms.
>
> Apologies & cheers,
> Steve

A useful clarification, thanks Steve! I feel sure there is merit in
such cases to clear somewhat sooner rather than later and I'm glad I
am not completely alone in that assertion.

Jim