Ive been making grape wine for some time now and have started thinking about
making my first fruit wine. I have access to about 100 lbs of fresh
strawberries and was wondering how much wine that might make. In grapes, it
would probably make about 8-10 gallons, is it about the same? Also would
like to find out the main differences in fermenting fruit from grapes, such
as type of yeast, pectin, is nutrient necessary, what % alochol am I looking
for, etc.
Thanks in advance.
Kitch

"Kitch" > wrote in message
. ..
> Ive been making grape wine for some time now and have started thinking
about
> making my first fruit wine. I have access to about 100 lbs of fresh
> strawberries and was wondering how much wine that might make. In grapes,
it
> would probably make about 8-10 gallons, is it about the same? Also would
> like to find out the main differences in fermenting fruit from grapes,
such
> as type of yeast, pectin, is nutrient necessary, what % alochol am I
looking
> for, etc.
> Thanks in advance.
> Kitch
>
Be very careful; strawberries grow in contact with the ground, and pick
up all sorts of nasty microbes. My only attempt was a miserable failure.

"Kitch" > wrote in message
. ..
> Ive been making grape wine for some time now and have started thinking
about
> making my first fruit wine. I have access to about 100 lbs of fresh
> strawberries and was wondering how much wine that might make. In grapes,
it
> would probably make about 8-10 gallons, is it about the same? Also would
> like to find out the main differences in fermenting fruit from grapes,
such
> as type of yeast, pectin, is nutrient necessary, what % alochol am I
looking
> for, etc.
> Thanks in advance.
> Kitch
>
Be very careful; strawberries grow in contact with the ground, and pick
up all sorts of nasty microbes. My only attempt was a miserable failure.

"Kitch" > wrote in message
. ..
> Ive been making grape wine for some time now and have started thinking
about
> making my first fruit wine. I have access to about 100 lbs of fresh
> strawberries and was wondering how much wine that might make. In grapes,
it
> would probably make about 8-10 gallons, is it about the same? Also would
> like to find out the main differences in fermenting fruit from grapes,
such
> as type of yeast, pectin, is nutrient necessary, what % alochol am I
looking
> for, etc.
> Thanks in advance.
> Kitch
>
Be very careful; strawberries grow in contact with the ground, and pick
up all sorts of nasty microbes. My only attempt was a miserable failure.

"Kitch" > wrote:
> Ive been making grape wine for some time now and have started thinking about
> making my first fruit wine. I have access to about 100 lbs of fresh
> strawberries and was wondering how much wine that might make. In grapes, it
> would probably make about 8-10 gallons, is it about the same? Also would
> like to find out the main differences in fermenting fruit from grapes, such
> as type of yeast, pectin, is nutrient necessary, what % alochol am I looking
> for, etc.

If you use *pure strawberry juice* you'd be looking at something like
6 US gallons of juice for the 100 lbs of fresh strawberries. A lot of
people dilute their strawberry juice, I generally wouldn't (depending
on the acidity).

As far as other details:
Yeast: usually strains for fruity whites
Pectin: a bit would be good, especially for juice extraction
Nutrient: again, some would be beneficial
Alcohol: strawberry is typically made at 11-12%

For more, see under the strawberry entry at:

http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/Styles/StyleDes.htm

HTH,

Ben

"Kitch" > wrote:
> Ive been making grape wine for some time now and have started thinking about
> making my first fruit wine. I have access to about 100 lbs of fresh
> strawberries and was wondering how much wine that might make. In grapes, it
> would probably make about 8-10 gallons, is it about the same? Also would
> like to find out the main differences in fermenting fruit from grapes, such
> as type of yeast, pectin, is nutrient necessary, what % alochol am I looking
> for, etc.

If you use *pure strawberry juice* you'd be looking at something like
6 US gallons of juice for the 100 lbs of fresh strawberries. A lot of
people dilute their strawberry juice, I generally wouldn't (depending
on the acidity).

As far as other details:
Yeast: usually strains for fruity whites
Pectin: a bit would be good, especially for juice extraction
Nutrient: again, some would be beneficial
Alcohol: strawberry is typically made at 11-12%

For more, see under the strawberry entry at:

http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/Styles/StyleDes.htm

HTH,

Ben

Kitch,
Please check out Jack Keller's wine-making site
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp. He's got lots of recipes,
especially for fruit wines; and tells you how to make them. I've made
strawberry wine and it is one of my favorites. I usually shoot for 11-12%
alcohol by volume. I only make fruit, vegetable, and herb wines, but my
impression is that making wine from grapes is a bit more complicated.
Good-luck.
Darlene

"Kitch" > wrote in message
. ..
> Ive been making grape wine for some time now and have started thinking
> about
> making my first fruit wine. I have access to about 100 lbs of fresh
> strawberries and was wondering how much wine that might make. In grapes,
> it
> would probably make about 8-10 gallons, is it about the same? Also would
> like to find out the main differences in fermenting fruit from grapes,
> such
> as type of yeast, pectin, is nutrient necessary, what % alochol am I
> looking
> for, etc.
> Thanks in advance.
> Kitch
>
>

Kitch,
Please check out Jack Keller's wine-making site
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp. He's got lots of recipes,
especially for fruit wines; and tells you how to make them. I've made
strawberry wine and it is one of my favorites. I usually shoot for 11-12%
alcohol by volume. I only make fruit, vegetable, and herb wines, but my
impression is that making wine from grapes is a bit more complicated.
Good-luck.
Darlene

"Kitch" > wrote in message
. ..
> Ive been making grape wine for some time now and have started thinking
> about
> making my first fruit wine. I have access to about 100 lbs of fresh
> strawberries and was wondering how much wine that might make. In grapes,
> it
> would probably make about 8-10 gallons, is it about the same? Also would
> like to find out the main differences in fermenting fruit from grapes,
> such
> as type of yeast, pectin, is nutrient necessary, what % alochol am I
> looking
> for, etc.
> Thanks in advance.
> Kitch
>
>

"Kitch" > wrote in message >...
> Ive been making grape wine for some time now and have started thinking about
> making my first fruit wine. I have access to about 100 lbs of fresh
> strawberries and was wondering how much wine that might make. In grapes, it
> would probably make about 8-10 gallons, is it about the same? Also would
> like to find out the main differences in fermenting fruit from grapes, such
> as type of yeast, pectin, is nutrient necessary, what % alochol am I looking
> for, etc.
> Thanks in advance.
> Kitch

Country wines (which is a bit of a misnomer, because nearly all wine
is made in the country) generally use less fruit per gallon for
various reasons.

the best source out ther which should answer most of your questions is
Jack Keller's page at http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

Good luck

"Kitch" > wrote in message >...
> Ive been making grape wine for some time now and have started thinking about
> making my first fruit wine. I have access to about 100 lbs of fresh
> strawberries and was wondering how much wine that might make. In grapes, it
> would probably make about 8-10 gallons, is it about the same? Also would
> like to find out the main differences in fermenting fruit from grapes, such
> as type of yeast, pectin, is nutrient necessary, what % alochol am I looking
> for, etc.
> Thanks in advance.
> Kitch

Country wines (which is a bit of a misnomer, because nearly all wine
is made in the country) generally use less fruit per gallon for
various reasons.

the best source out ther which should answer most of your questions is
Jack Keller's page at http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

Good luck

"Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
om...
> "Kitch" > wrote:
> > Ive been making grape wine for some time now and have started thinking
about
> > making my first fruit wine. I have access to about 100 lbs of fresh
> > strawberries and was wondering how much wine that might make. In
grapes, it
> > would probably make about 8-10 gallons, is it about the same? Also
would
> > like to find out the main differences in fermenting fruit from grapes,
such
> > as type of yeast, pectin, is nutrient necessary, what % alochol am I
looking
> > for, etc.
>
> If you use *pure strawberry juice* you'd be looking at something like
> 6 US gallons of juice for the 100 lbs of fresh strawberries. A lot of
> people dilute their strawberry juice, I generally wouldn't (depending
> on the acidity).

It is my understanding that a substantial portion of the flavor of
strawberries is =inside= the seeds. That is why I pureed mine, to smash the
seeds...
>
> As far as other details:
> Yeast: usually strains for fruity whites
> Pectin: a bit would be good, especially for juice extraction
> Nutrient: again, some would be beneficial
> Alcohol: strawberry is typically made at 11-12%
>
> For more, see under the strawberry entry at:
>
> http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/Styles/StyleDes.htm
>
> HTH,
>
> Ben

"Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
om...
> "Kitch" > wrote:
> > Ive been making grape wine for some time now and have started thinking
about
> > making my first fruit wine. I have access to about 100 lbs of fresh
> > strawberries and was wondering how much wine that might make. In
grapes, it
> > would probably make about 8-10 gallons, is it about the same? Also
would
> > like to find out the main differences in fermenting fruit from grapes,
such
> > as type of yeast, pectin, is nutrient necessary, what % alochol am I
looking
> > for, etc.
>
> If you use *pure strawberry juice* you'd be looking at something like
> 6 US gallons of juice for the 100 lbs of fresh strawberries. A lot of
> people dilute their strawberry juice, I generally wouldn't (depending
> on the acidity).

It is my understanding that a substantial portion of the flavor of
strawberries is =inside= the seeds. That is why I pureed mine, to smash the
seeds...
>
> As far as other details:
> Yeast: usually strains for fruity whites
> Pectin: a bit would be good, especially for juice extraction
> Nutrient: again, some would be beneficial
> Alcohol: strawberry is typically made at 11-12%
>
> For more, see under the strawberry entry at:
>
> http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/Styles/StyleDes.htm
>
> HTH,
>
> Ben

"Bob" > wrote:
> It is my understanding that a substantial portion of the flavor of
> strawberries is =inside= the seeds. That is why I pureed mine, to smash the
> seeds...

If by flavour you mean bitter and astringent phenols then yes. But a
lot of people try to avoid that in their strawberry wines.

Ben

"Bob" > wrote:
> It is my understanding that a substantial portion of the flavor of
> strawberries is =inside= the seeds. That is why I pureed mine, to smash the
> seeds...

If by flavour you mean bitter and astringent phenols then yes. But a
lot of people try to avoid that in their strawberry wines.

Ben

If you have 100 lbs of fresh strawberries, BY ALL MEANS make 100%
strawberry wine without dilution. "Country" winemakers traditionally
have had a motive of thrift and frugality, which is not in itself a
bad thing, but it created the culture of dilution in non-grape wines.
I don't care to argue that point, although there are some in our midst
who will, as well as well-intentioned folks who simply haven't tried
any other method.

Anyhow, Ben Rotter's estimate seems spot on - 6 gals for 100 lbs. I
had 55 lbs and it made about 3.5 US gallons of pure strawberry juice.
I froze the berries for a few days, then thawed them, which greatly
aids in juice extraction. My particular juice measured at 1.032 SG and
..85% TA. I added 5 lbs of sugar which raised the SG to 1.091. I did
not adjust acid; I chose instead to balance the finished wine against
the final acidity.

The finished wine is now about 18 months old. It was sweetened to SG
1.010, about 3.8% sugar. This gives it just a little sweetness but it
is far from "sweet." It's a beautiful wine served cold in the summer,
or chilled just a bit it goes great with Italian food.

Bon chance,
Roger
Quinta do Placer

If you have 100 lbs of fresh strawberries, BY ALL MEANS make 100%
strawberry wine without dilution. "Country" winemakers traditionally
have had a motive of thrift and frugality, which is not in itself a
bad thing, but it created the culture of dilution in non-grape wines.
I don't care to argue that point, although there are some in our midst
who will, as well as well-intentioned folks who simply haven't tried
any other method.

Anyhow, Ben Rotter's estimate seems spot on - 6 gals for 100 lbs. I
had 55 lbs and it made about 3.5 US gallons of pure strawberry juice.
I froze the berries for a few days, then thawed them, which greatly
aids in juice extraction. My particular juice measured at 1.032 SG and
..85% TA. I added 5 lbs of sugar which raised the SG to 1.091. I did
not adjust acid; I chose instead to balance the finished wine against
the final acidity.

The finished wine is now about 18 months old. It was sweetened to SG
1.010, about 3.8% sugar. This gives it just a little sweetness but it
is far from "sweet." It's a beautiful wine served cold in the summer,
or chilled just a bit it goes great with Italian food.

Bon chance,
Roger
Quinta do Placer

> If you use *pure strawberry juice* you'd be looking at something like
> 6 US gallons of juice for the 100 lbs of fresh strawberries. A lot of
> people dilute their strawberry juice, I generally wouldn't (depending
> on the acidity).

I agree with Ben here. Although I've made strawberry wines for
umpteen years using dilution and other ingredients for body, I've also
made it using 90-92% pure juice ameliorated with pectic enzyme
(strawberries have enough pectin in them to give you trouble clearing
if you don't use the enzyme), nutrients and brown sugar (Demerara or
Muscavado [Barbados] are better if you can find them). The 8-10%
water was needed to correct the acidity. Exceeding 12% abv is a
common mistake with strawberry.

If you crush the strawberries gently (just break them, don't mash
them) you will get good flavor (depending on the yeast you select) in
about 5 days. After 7-9 days (depending on the variety of
strawberry), you'll start tasting a bitterness from the seeds. If you
go heavy and mash them, you'll have excellent flavor in about 3 days
but will have a lot of gross lees you'll regret.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

> If you use *pure strawberry juice* you'd be looking at something like
> 6 US gallons of juice for the 100 lbs of fresh strawberries. A lot of
> people dilute their strawberry juice, I generally wouldn't (depending
> on the acidity).

I agree with Ben here. Although I've made strawberry wines for
umpteen years using dilution and other ingredients for body, I've also
made it using 90-92% pure juice ameliorated with pectic enzyme
(strawberries have enough pectin in them to give you trouble clearing
if you don't use the enzyme), nutrients and brown sugar (Demerara or
Muscavado [Barbados] are better if you can find them). The 8-10%
water was needed to correct the acidity. Exceeding 12% abv is a
common mistake with strawberry.

If you crush the strawberries gently (just break them, don't mash
them) you will get good flavor (depending on the yeast you select) in
about 5 days. After 7-9 days (depending on the variety of
strawberry), you'll start tasting a bitterness from the seeds. If you
go heavy and mash them, you'll have excellent flavor in about 3 days
but will have a lot of gross lees you'll regret.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

wrote in message . com>...
> If you have 100 lbs of fresh strawberries, BY ALL MEANS make 100%
> strawberry wine without dilution. "Country" winemakers traditionally
> have had a motive of thrift and frugality, which is not in itself a
> bad thing, but it created the culture of dilution in non-grape wines.
> I don't care to argue that point, although there are some in our midst
> who will, as well as well-intentioned folks who simply haven't tried
> any other method.
>

That might work for strawberries, but what do you do with highly
acidic and intense fruit, like currants or elderberries, for example?

Just to be clear - I'm not trying to argue against what you're saying,
just curious how you address what I see as the major difficulty with
the "pure juice" approach.

Pp

wrote in message . com>...
> If you have 100 lbs of fresh strawberries, BY ALL MEANS make 100%
> strawberry wine without dilution. "Country" winemakers traditionally
> have had a motive of thrift and frugality, which is not in itself a
> bad thing, but it created the culture of dilution in non-grape wines.
> I don't care to argue that point, although there are some in our midst
> who will, as well as well-intentioned folks who simply haven't tried
> any other method.
>

That might work for strawberries, but what do you do with highly
acidic and intense fruit, like currants or elderberries, for example?

Just to be clear - I'm not trying to argue against what you're saying,
just curious how you address what I see as the major difficulty with
the "pure juice" approach.

Pp

> That might work for strawberries, but what do you do with highly
> acidic and intense fruit, like currants or elderberries, for example?

Even strawberry has an acidity problem. I've made "pure" strawberry
twice and had to add 8% water the first time and 10% water the second.
This is very close to what Poteet Country Winery adds to their "pure"
strawberry wine. As for the other high acid fruit juices, you
ameliorate with water or buffer with chemicals. The water is better
for the wine.

> Just to be clear - I'm not trying to argue against what you're saying,
> just curious how you address what I see as the major difficulty with
> the "pure juice" approach.

Well, at least you asked the right question.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

(pp) wrote in message . com>...
> wrote in message . com>...
> > If you have 100 lbs of fresh strawberries, BY ALL MEANS make 100%
> > strawberry wine without dilution. "Country" winemakers traditionally
> > have had a motive of thrift and frugality, which is not in itself a
> > bad thing, but it created the culture of dilution in non-grape wines.
> > I don't care to argue that point, although there are some in our midst
> > who will, as well as well-intentioned folks who simply haven't tried
> > any other method.
> >
>
> That might work for strawberries, but what do you do with highly
> acidic and intense fruit, like currants or elderberries, for example?
>
> Just to be clear - I'm not trying to argue against what you're saying,
> just curious how you address what I see as the major difficulty with
> the "pure juice" approach.
>
> Pp



You COULD always titrate out some of the acidity using Calcium
Carbonate (or pickling line, calcium hysroxide)....if it is to high in
acid. Some fruits just make wines that would be way to tannic, or way
to strong flavored, like rhubarb...of course with rhubarb you also
have oxolate content (which you can and often do titrate out)

Other fruits make wine that the flavor is extremely fleeting, even if
you do use straight fruit. Mulberry is one that I like to make with
mulberry juice spiked with some grape concentrate...no water added,
but you still need to add a little sugar. I think my mulberry juice
generally runs about 1.060 and it is very pectic...it throws a ton of
sediment.


My point before was that you can make perfectly good wines by
ameoleration of fruit juice.

I don't want to get into another juice concentration debate, but my
main issue with the fruit winemaking culture (many recipes) is that
it's common to *over-dilute*, claimed for the purposes of
deacidification but in-turn diluting flavour and extract. (This was
actually one the main issues I was essentially raising way back in
2001, but it seemed to fall by the way side pretty fast in place of
some kind of misrepresentative generalised dilution debate.)

For example, the first two recipes on Jack's Requested Recipes page
for Strawberry actually *re-acidify* the must (and by about 2.8 g/l as
tartaric - which is actually quite a lot)! So that much dilution can't
be for the purposes of high acid content alone. You might like your
strawberry wine weak, but I don't, and I personally think that good
strawberry juice *deserves* to be pure (you don't get much extract
otherwise).

pp asked:
> That might work for strawberries, but what do you do with highly
> acidic and intense fruit, like currants or elderberries, for example?

Better fruit quality/selection, blending, chemical and biological
deacidifications.

Droopy wrote:
> Some fruits just make wines that would be way to tannic, or way
> to strong flavored, like rhubarb...of course with rhubarb you also
> have oxolate content (which you can and often do titrate out)

Balance is the issue. It is my belief that balance and intense flavour
can be obtained simultaneously using the right fruit and techniques.
(On rhubarb, there are those who believe that deacidification of
oxalate reduces true rhubarb character. I disagree that it creates a
wine that is "too strong flavoured".)

> Country wines (which is a bit of a misnomer, because nearly all wine
> is made in the country)

I disagree with that statement. A large proportion of non-grape
winemakers on this ng reside in cities. IMO, this terminology
("country wines") is unfortunate and I avoid it as much as possible.

Ben

I don't want to get into another juice concentration debate, but my
main issue with the fruit winemaking culture (many recipes) is that
it's common to *over-dilute*, claimed for the purposes of
deacidification but in-turn diluting flavour and extract. (This was
actually one the main issues I was essentially raising way back in
2001, but it seemed to fall by the way side pretty fast in place of
some kind of misrepresentative generalised dilution debate.)

For example, the first two recipes on Jack's Requested Recipes page
for Strawberry actually *re-acidify* the must (and by about 2.8 g/l as
tartaric - which is actually quite a lot)! So that much dilution can't
be for the purposes of high acid content alone. You might like your
strawberry wine weak, but I don't, and I personally think that good
strawberry juice *deserves* to be pure (you don't get much extract
otherwise).

pp asked:
> That might work for strawberries, but what do you do with highly
> acidic and intense fruit, like currants or elderberries, for example?

Better fruit quality/selection, blending, chemical and biological
deacidifications.

Droopy wrote:
> Some fruits just make wines that would be way to tannic, or way
> to strong flavored, like rhubarb...of course with rhubarb you also
> have oxolate content (which you can and often do titrate out)

Balance is the issue. It is my belief that balance and intense flavour
can be obtained simultaneously using the right fruit and techniques.
(On rhubarb, there are those who believe that deacidification of
oxalate reduces true rhubarb character. I disagree that it creates a
wine that is "too strong flavoured".)

> Country wines (which is a bit of a misnomer, because nearly all wine
> is made in the country)

I disagree with that statement. A large proportion of non-grape
winemakers on this ng reside in cities. IMO, this terminology
("country wines") is unfortunate and I avoid it as much as possible.

Ben

Ben,
For me, the choice between a fruit wine made using all juice versus some
juice is a matter of personnel taste. I was given a Christmas present some
years ago, of some fruit wine which claimed to be all juice with very little
dilution - I didn't like any of it. I prefer a strawberry wine recipe which
only uses 4-5 quarts of frozen fruit as it's base. I think for people who
start out it's good to start with a recipe from Jack or Lum's sites, and
then when they progress in their winemaking skills, they can move on to
making the wine they way they want to (and that could be with all juice or
not). After all that is why I started to make wines with fruit and such; to
make a wine I like and which is different.
Darlene

"Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
om...
>I don't want to get into another juice concentration debate, but my
> main issue with the fruit winemaking culture (many recipes) is that
> it's common to *over-dilute*, claimed for the purposes of
> deacidification but in-turn diluting flavour and extract. (This was
> actually one the main issues I was essentially raising way back in
> 2001, but it seemed to fall by the way side pretty fast in place of
> some kind of misrepresentative generalised dilution debate.)
>
> For example, the first two recipes on Jack's Requested Recipes page
> for Strawberry actually *re-acidify* the must (and by about 2.8 g/l as
> tartaric - which is actually quite a lot)! So that much dilution can't
> be for the purposes of high acid content alone. You might like your
> strawberry wine weak, but I don't, and I personally think that good
> strawberry juice *deserves* to be pure (you don't get much extract
> otherwise).
>
> pp asked:
>> That might work for strawberries, but what do you do with highly
>> acidic and intense fruit, like currants or elderberries, for example?
>
> Better fruit quality/selection, blending, chemical and biological
> deacidifications.
>
> Droopy wrote:
>> Some fruits just make wines that would be way to tannic, or way
>> to strong flavored, like rhubarb...of course with rhubarb you also
>> have oxolate content (which you can and often do titrate out)
>
> Balance is the issue. It is my belief that balance and intense flavour
> can be obtained simultaneously using the right fruit and techniques.
> (On rhubarb, there are those who believe that deacidification of
> oxalate reduces true rhubarb character. I disagree that it creates a
> wine that is "too strong flavoured".)
>
>> Country wines (which is a bit of a misnomer, because nearly all wine
>> is made in the country)
>
> I disagree with that statement. A large proportion of non-grape
> winemakers on this ng reside in cities. IMO, this terminology
> ("country wines") is unfortunate and I avoid it as much as possible.
>
> Ben

> That might work for strawberries, but what do you do with highly
> acidic and intense fruit, like currants or elderberries, for example?

I've evolved my winemaking to follow a certain philosophy as I've
gained experience over the past few years. First of all, I - unlike
some others - don't generally make wine from sources that require a
tremendous amount of manipulation to become wine, such as flowers for
example. I also don't bother with extremely acidic fruits (lemon) or
extremely flat fruits (banana). What I've decided to do is to make
wine from fruits that contain "reasonable" amounts of the raw
materials needed in their natural form. By "raw materials" I refer to
juice volume, sugar, and acid.

So far, that's been: Strawberry, blackberry, blueberry, peach, plum,
apple, and pear. I've made all of these in a high concentration
(75-100%) with success. I'm also focusing on fresh, in-season fruits
here in my home state of New Jersey. Cranberry is next! And as you
know, that's an acidic fruit with little juice...

But to answer your acidity question... the other part of the
philosophy is to balance the wine according to the characteristics of
the source fruit. Grapes are naturally suited to fermenting to dryness
at 11-13% alcohol and .5-.8 TA with no amelioration under good
conditions. All of the other fruits require sugar to reach the alcohol
content needed for wine. What I've begun to do is to ferment to
dryness, determine how acidic the wine is by taste, and balance the
final product to taste with sugar or honey. I do enjoy off-dry and
sweet wines, so this works for me.

The other approach is to plan for water dilution to reduce the acid.
But rather than doing it at the start, do it AFTER fermentation. You
have to chaptalize for a higher alcohol content; say 15% - to
accomodate a 10-20% water dilution (which will reduce the alcohol to a
more acceptable 12-13.5%). Thus the dilution serves to balance the
acid, and is done only to the extent necessary - as judged by your
taste. Of course, a combination of the water and sugar balancing
techniques can be successful too. Dilution up front is *almost* the
same, but I find that it's more hit-or-miss. Doing it later lets you
hit the balance target more accurately, and lets you learn how wine
from these fruits tastes w/o being watered down from the start.

This is just my mindset, and I offer it as food for thought. I'm not
on any kind of crusade here! :-)

Roger
Quinta do Placer

> That might work for strawberries, but what do you do with highly
> acidic and intense fruit, like currants or elderberries, for example?

I've evolved my winemaking to follow a certain philosophy as I've
gained experience over the past few years. First of all, I - unlike
some others - don't generally make wine from sources that require a
tremendous amount of manipulation to become wine, such as flowers for
example. I also don't bother with extremely acidic fruits (lemon) or
extremely flat fruits (banana). What I've decided to do is to make
wine from fruits that contain "reasonable" amounts of the raw
materials needed in their natural form. By "raw materials" I refer to
juice volume, sugar, and acid.

So far, that's been: Strawberry, blackberry, blueberry, peach, plum,
apple, and pear. I've made all of these in a high concentration
(75-100%) with success. I'm also focusing on fresh, in-season fruits
here in my home state of New Jersey. Cranberry is next! And as you
know, that's an acidic fruit with little juice...

But to answer your acidity question... the other part of the
philosophy is to balance the wine according to the characteristics of
the source fruit. Grapes are naturally suited to fermenting to dryness
at 11-13% alcohol and .5-.8 TA with no amelioration under good
conditions. All of the other fruits require sugar to reach the alcohol
content needed for wine. What I've begun to do is to ferment to
dryness, determine how acidic the wine is by taste, and balance the
final product to taste with sugar or honey. I do enjoy off-dry and
sweet wines, so this works for me.

The other approach is to plan for water dilution to reduce the acid.
But rather than doing it at the start, do it AFTER fermentation. You
have to chaptalize for a higher alcohol content; say 15% - to
accomodate a 10-20% water dilution (which will reduce the alcohol to a
more acceptable 12-13.5%). Thus the dilution serves to balance the
acid, and is done only to the extent necessary - as judged by your
taste. Of course, a combination of the water and sugar balancing
techniques can be successful too. Dilution up front is *almost* the
same, but I find that it's more hit-or-miss. Doing it later lets you
hit the balance target more accurately, and lets you learn how wine
from these fruits tastes w/o being watered down from the start.

This is just my mindset, and I offer it as food for thought. I'm not
on any kind of crusade here! :-)

Roger
Quinta do Placer

> I disagree with that statement. A large proportion of non-grape
> winemakers on this ng reside in cities. IMO, this terminology
> ("country wines") is unfortunate and I avoid it as much as possible.


Well as long as we are going to argue semantics, by volume most wine
is made in the country...since commercial output accounts for the vast
majority of all wine.

> I disagree with that statement. A large proportion of non-grape
> winemakers on this ng reside in cities. IMO, this terminology
> ("country wines") is unfortunate and I avoid it as much as possible.


Well as long as we are going to argue semantics, by volume most wine
is made in the country...since commercial output accounts for the vast
majority of all wine.

Just to express my opinion, I like the term "country wine" and do not think
it relates to the density of population. At one time people in the country
made their own wine.

That aside, if you want stronger flavored wine, make it. Craft your own.
my suggestion is to juice your fruit. Test it's acidity, then dilute to the
acidity you want and don't add acid. If that is not strong enough, then
don't dilute and use something like calcium carbonate to bring the acid
down.

Ray

"Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
om...
>I don't want to get into another juice concentration debate, but my
> main issue with the fruit winemaking culture (many recipes) is that
> it's common to *over-dilute*, claimed for the purposes of
> deacidification but in-turn diluting flavour and extract. (This was
> actually one the main issues I was essentially raising way back in
> 2001, but it seemed to fall by the way side pretty fast in place of
> some kind of misrepresentative generalised dilution debate.)
>
> For example, the first two recipes on Jack's Requested Recipes page
> for Strawberry actually *re-acidify* the must (and by about 2.8 g/l as
> tartaric - which is actually quite a lot)! So that much dilution can't
> be for the purposes of high acid content alone. You might like your
> strawberry wine weak, but I don't, and I personally think that good
> strawberry juice *deserves* to be pure (you don't get much extract
> otherwise).
>
> pp asked:
>> That might work for strawberries, but what do you do with highly
>> acidic and intense fruit, like currants or elderberries, for example?
>
> Better fruit quality/selection, blending, chemical and biological
> deacidifications.
>
> Droopy wrote:
>> Some fruits just make wines that would be way to tannic, or way
>> to strong flavored, like rhubarb...of course with rhubarb you also
>> have oxolate content (which you can and often do titrate out)
>
> Balance is the issue. It is my belief that balance and intense flavour
> can be obtained simultaneously using the right fruit and techniques.
> (On rhubarb, there are those who believe that deacidification of
> oxalate reduces true rhubarb character. I disagree that it creates a
> wine that is "too strong flavoured".)
>
>> Country wines (which is a bit of a misnomer, because nearly all wine
>> is made in the country)
>
> I disagree with that statement. A large proportion of non-grape
> winemakers on this ng reside in cities. IMO, this terminology
> ("country wines") is unfortunate and I avoid it as much as possible.
>
> Ben
>