I want to make a mead that will age gracefully over the next 20 years
or so. What I want to do is make a special present for my kids after
they get married (for the honeymoon - sappy I know).

So for the meadmakers, what sort of recipe should I make...a melomel
or a straight mead? Any suggestions on a flavor that will age
well...or maybe even a recipe?

For the winemakers, what sort of residual sugar, alcohol and TA should
I shoot for so that the mead will stay stable?

I know it will be a gamble on whether or not it will turn out to be
any good in the end...and I would track its process...so I will end up
making a couple of gallons to squirrel away so that I know if it is a
waste of time.

If you are gonna age it for 20 years, you might as well go for a really nice
mead, made from the best honey you can find. I am excpecting good things
from a Greek honey I have just set off - lovely liquorice flavour to it
which should develop into a nice mead after ageing.

Don't boil the wort. You will lose the delicate aspects of the honey. Go for
pasteurisation. Make a good acid blend with tannin and use a good bottled
mineral water for trace minerals.

Rack off when you get about one to half an inch of sediment and make sure
that fermentation has ceased completely before you bottle it!

Above all, dwell on the fact that what you are doing will be appreciated
even if the end result isn't a best of show!
"Droopy" > wrote in message
om...
:I want to make a mead that will age gracefully over the next 20 years
: or so. What I want to do is make a special present for my kids after
: they get married (for the honeymoon - sappy I know).
:
: So for the meadmakers, what sort of recipe should I make...a melomel
: or a straight mead? Any suggestions on a flavor that will age
: well...or maybe even a recipe?
:
: For the winemakers, what sort of residual sugar, alcohol and TA should
: I shoot for so that the mead will stay stable?
:
: I know it will be a gamble on whether or not it will turn out to be
: any good in the end...and I would track its process...so I will end up
: making a couple of gallons to squirrel away so that I know if it is a
: waste of time.

If you are gonna age it for 20 years, you might as well go for a really nice
mead, made from the best honey you can find. I am excpecting good things
from a Greek honey I have just set off - lovely liquorice flavour to it
which should develop into a nice mead after ageing.

Don't boil the wort. You will lose the delicate aspects of the honey. Go for
pasteurisation. Make a good acid blend with tannin and use a good bottled
mineral water for trace minerals.

Rack off when you get about one to half an inch of sediment and make sure
that fermentation has ceased completely before you bottle it!

Above all, dwell on the fact that what you are doing will be appreciated
even if the end result isn't a best of show!
"Droopy" > wrote in message
om...
:I want to make a mead that will age gracefully over the next 20 years
: or so. What I want to do is make a special present for my kids after
: they get married (for the honeymoon - sappy I know).
:
: So for the meadmakers, what sort of recipe should I make...a melomel
: or a straight mead? Any suggestions on a flavor that will age
: well...or maybe even a recipe?
:
: For the winemakers, what sort of residual sugar, alcohol and TA should
: I shoot for so that the mead will stay stable?
:
: I know it will be a gamble on whether or not it will turn out to be
: any good in the end...and I would track its process...so I will end up
: making a couple of gallons to squirrel away so that I know if it is a
: waste of time.

If you are gonna age it for 20 years, you might as well go for a really nice
mead, made from the best honey you can find. I am excpecting good things
from a Greek honey I have just set off - lovely liquorice flavour to it
which should develop into a nice mead after ageing.

Don't boil the wort. You will lose the delicate aspects of the honey. Go for
pasteurisation. Make a good acid blend with tannin and use a good bottled
mineral water for trace minerals.

Rack off when you get about one to half an inch of sediment and make sure
that fermentation has ceased completely before you bottle it!

Above all, dwell on the fact that what you are doing will be appreciated
even if the end result isn't a best of show!
"Droopy" > wrote in message
om...
:I want to make a mead that will age gracefully over the next 20 years
: or so. What I want to do is make a special present for my kids after
: they get married (for the honeymoon - sappy I know).
:
: So for the meadmakers, what sort of recipe should I make...a melomel
: or a straight mead? Any suggestions on a flavor that will age
: well...or maybe even a recipe?
:
: For the winemakers, what sort of residual sugar, alcohol and TA should
: I shoot for so that the mead will stay stable?
:
: I know it will be a gamble on whether or not it will turn out to be
: any good in the end...and I would track its process...so I will end up
: making a couple of gallons to squirrel away so that I know if it is a
: waste of time.

I don't know if you can get it and I don't even know where you are but from
what I read, heather honey makes a mead that ages very well and it is even
recommended that you age it at least 8 years.

Ray

"Droopy" > wrote in message
om...
>I want to make a mead that will age gracefully over the next 20 years
> or so. What I want to do is make a special present for my kids after
> they get married (for the honeymoon - sappy I know).
>
> So for the meadmakers, what sort of recipe should I make...a melomel
> or a straight mead? Any suggestions on a flavor that will age
> well...or maybe even a recipe?
>
> For the winemakers, what sort of residual sugar, alcohol and TA should
> I shoot for so that the mead will stay stable?
>
> I know it will be a gamble on whether or not it will turn out to be
> any good in the end...and I would track its process...so I will end up
> making a couple of gallons to squirrel away so that I know if it is a
> waste of time.

I don't know if you can get it and I don't even know where you are but from
what I read, heather honey makes a mead that ages very well and it is even
recommended that you age it at least 8 years.

Ray

"Droopy" > wrote in message
om...
>I want to make a mead that will age gracefully over the next 20 years
> or so. What I want to do is make a special present for my kids after
> they get married (for the honeymoon - sappy I know).
>
> So for the meadmakers, what sort of recipe should I make...a melomel
> or a straight mead? Any suggestions on a flavor that will age
> well...or maybe even a recipe?
>
> For the winemakers, what sort of residual sugar, alcohol and TA should
> I shoot for so that the mead will stay stable?
>
> I know it will be a gamble on whether or not it will turn out to be
> any good in the end...and I would track its process...so I will end up
> making a couple of gallons to squirrel away so that I know if it is a
> waste of time.

Apis in Poland makes Jadwiga which is the oldest commercially made Mead on
the market. It's either 20 or 25 years old. Barrel aged and pretty darn good
too. It's got a very golden color, on the thick side of consistency and very
very sweet. It's about $30.00 US per bottle. I've had a couple bottles that
were both very good but each had a different taste to it too. You may want
to research the process they use to make it and see if you can duplicate it.

Jon.

--

Come visit us on the web!
http://www.largescale-trains.com
Home of the JJ&C Railroad


"Droopy" > wrote in message
om...
> I want to make a mead that will age gracefully over the next 20 years
> or so. What I want to do is make a special present for my kids after
> they get married (for the honeymoon - sappy I know).
>
> So for the meadmakers, what sort of recipe should I make...a melomel
> or a straight mead? Any suggestions on a flavor that will age
> well...or maybe even a recipe?
>
> For the winemakers, what sort of residual sugar, alcohol and TA should
> I shoot for so that the mead will stay stable?
>
> I know it will be a gamble on whether or not it will turn out to be
> any good in the end...and I would track its process...so I will end up
> making a couple of gallons to squirrel away so that I know if it is a
> waste of time.

Apis in Poland makes Jadwiga which is the oldest commercially made Mead on
the market. It's either 20 or 25 years old. Barrel aged and pretty darn good
too. It's got a very golden color, on the thick side of consistency and very
very sweet. It's about $30.00 US per bottle. I've had a couple bottles that
were both very good but each had a different taste to it too. You may want
to research the process they use to make it and see if you can duplicate it.

Jon.

--

Come visit us on the web!
http://www.largescale-trains.com
Home of the JJ&C Railroad


"Droopy" > wrote in message
om...
> I want to make a mead that will age gracefully over the next 20 years
> or so. What I want to do is make a special present for my kids after
> they get married (for the honeymoon - sappy I know).
>
> So for the meadmakers, what sort of recipe should I make...a melomel
> or a straight mead? Any suggestions on a flavor that will age
> well...or maybe even a recipe?
>
> For the winemakers, what sort of residual sugar, alcohol and TA should
> I shoot for so that the mead will stay stable?
>
> I know it will be a gamble on whether or not it will turn out to be
> any good in the end...and I would track its process...so I will end up
> making a couple of gallons to squirrel away so that I know if it is a
> waste of time.

I will not even speak to the basic questions you ask. Others can do
that as well or better than I can. Instead, I will simply suggest
that you begin researching the very best corks you can find. Call
Presque Isle and ask them if they still carry a cork that will last 20
years. They used to. If they still do, expect to pay about 75-cents
apiece for them.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

I will not even speak to the basic questions you ask. Others can do
that as well or better than I can. Instead, I will simply suggest
that you begin researching the very best corks you can find. Call
Presque Isle and ask them if they still carry a cork that will last 20
years. They used to. If they still do, expect to pay about 75-cents
apiece for them.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

(Jack Keller) wrote in message . com>...
> I will not even speak to the basic questions you ask. Others can do
> that as well or better than I can. Instead, I will simply suggest
> that you begin researching the very best corks you can find. Call
> Presque Isle and ask them if they still carry a cork that will last 20
> years. They used to. If they still do, expect to pay about 75-cents
> apiece for them.
>
> Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
> http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

Is it possible to do good corks + crown caps? I'd think that'd help
reduce O2 infiltration?

Paul, I'm sure it is, but that is overkill and really is not why I
said to get good corks. Corks break down after a while, and cheap
corks break down REALLY fast.

Good, quality corks can last 20 years, but you need to ask for a cork
that will do that. There are very few places that even carry a
10-year cork, let alone 20. Presque Isle (North East, PA) used to
carry a 20-year cork called COPR7 that was made by Scott. I thought
they ran about 75-cents each, but I checked the other night and it was
around 90-cents each. But they were without doubt the best cork I've
ever used or even seen.

Presque Isle -- look for closures at http://shop.piwine.com/

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

Paul, I'm sure it is, but that is overkill and really is not why I
said to get good corks. Corks break down after a while, and cheap
corks break down REALLY fast.

Good, quality corks can last 20 years, but you need to ask for a cork
that will do that. There are very few places that even carry a
10-year cork, let alone 20. Presque Isle (North East, PA) used to
carry a 20-year cork called COPR7 that was made by Scott. I thought
they ran about 75-cents each, but I checked the other night and it was
around 90-cents each. But they were without doubt the best cork I've
ever used or even seen.

Presque Isle -- look for closures at http://shop.piwine.com/

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

"Jack Keller" > wrote in message
om...
: Paul, I'm sure it is, but that is overkill and really is not why I
: said to get good corks. Corks break down after a while, and cheap
: corks break down REALLY fast.
:
: Good, quality corks can last 20 years, but you need to ask for a cork
: that will do that. There are very few places that even carry a
: 10-year cork, let alone 20. Presque Isle (North East, PA) used to
: carry a 20-year cork called COPR7 that was made by Scott. I thought
: they ran about 75-cents each, but I checked the other night and it was
: around 90-cents each. But they were without doubt the best cork I've
: ever used or even seen.
:
: Presque Isle -- look for closures at http://shop.piwine.com/
:
: Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
: http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

May be a good idea to consider a synthetic cork... quite superior imho.

Three things affect the long term stability of the mead in bottle.

1. Quality of the cork
2. length of the cork
3. suitability of the bottle for #1 and #2

I have 15 year old meads and can't wait untl they are 20 or thirty.
Natural 1.75" AA quality corks.


Mike



Jack Keller wrote:
>>May be a good idea to consider a synthetic cork... quite superior imho.
>
>
> It has been about five years since I did my research on synthetic
> corks. Back then, research was coming in from Australia, where
> synthetic corks have been used longer than anywhere else, that
> questioned whether they were superior. I'll take another look when I
> have the time, but if anyone has URLs to share on this subject please
> post them.
>
> Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
> http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

"Jack Keller" > wrote in message
om...
:> May be a good idea to consider a synthetic cork... quite superior imho.
:
: It has been about five years since I did my research on synthetic
: corks. Back then, research was coming in from Australia, where
: synthetic corks have been used longer than anywhere else, that
: questioned whether they were superior. I'll take another look when I
: have the time, but if anyone has URLs to share on this subject please
: post them.
:
: Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
: http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

Hi Jack,

In saying that synthetic corks were superior, I was only registering an
opinion; however, in arriving at that opinion, I asked myself what the
purpose of a cork was. The straightforward answer was to provide an 'inert
barrier' between the alcohol in the bottle and the atmosphere outside.

Corks (as opposed to synthetic plugs) are biodegradable and porous and
therefore rot and allow the passage of liquid and gas. It is only the fact
that corks swell in liquid that allows them to fulfil the role of a stopper.
Otherwise they would be useless (as is evidenced by wine going off when its
cork dries).

A synthetice plug is not subject to either porosity or biodegradability and
this is what I based my opinion on.

In the book, Sake Pure and Simple, it is noted that many Sake producers,
especially in America, now use synthetic plugs and twist-off caps, instead
of corks, as they provide a superior seal. The fact that Sake can oxidise
rapidly (and react badly to UV) is why (brown bottles and) modern stoppers
ares used...

Sake and Mead - as different as chalk and cheese! (No hangover with Sake!)

"Jack Keller" > wrote in message
om...
:> May be a good idea to consider a synthetic cork... quite superior imho.
:
: It has been about five years since I did my research on synthetic
: corks. Back then, research was coming in from Australia, where
: synthetic corks have been used longer than anywhere else, that
: questioned whether they were superior. I'll take another look when I
: have the time, but if anyone has URLs to share on this subject please
: post them.
:
: Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
: http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

Hi Jack,

In saying that synthetic corks were superior, I was only registering an
opinion; however, in arriving at that opinion, I asked myself what the
purpose of a cork was. The straightforward answer was to provide an 'inert
barrier' between the alcohol in the bottle and the atmosphere outside.

Corks (as opposed to synthetic plugs) are biodegradable and porous and
therefore rot and allow the passage of liquid and gas. It is only the fact
that corks swell in liquid that allows them to fulfil the role of a stopper.
Otherwise they would be useless (as is evidenced by wine going off when its
cork dries).

A synthetice plug is not subject to either porosity or biodegradability and
this is what I based my opinion on.

In the book, Sake Pure and Simple, it is noted that many Sake producers,
especially in America, now use synthetic plugs and twist-off caps, instead
of corks, as they provide a superior seal. The fact that Sake can oxidise
rapidly (and react badly to UV) is why (brown bottles and) modern stoppers
ares used...

Sake and Mead - as different as chalk and cheese! (No hangover with Sake!)

"Tao Shan" > wrote in message
.uk...

PS Quite often, a small amount of oxidisation and reaction, resulting from
the choice of cork, can add some character to a wine - possibly why corks
are still found in the bottles of the very best wines?

: Sake and Mead - as different as chalk and cheese! (No hangover with Sake!)
:
:

"Tao Shan" > wrote in message
.uk...

PS Quite often, a small amount of oxidisation and reaction, resulting from
the choice of cork, can add some character to a wine - possibly why corks
are still found in the bottles of the very best wines?

: Sake and Mead - as different as chalk and cheese! (No hangover with Sake!)
:
:

Tao Shan wrote:

>
> Sake and Mead - as different as chalk and cheese! (No hangover with Sake!)
>
If you get a hangover from mead there is something wrong. You should not
get one even if you tie one on real good.

One of the biggest problems with most mead is that it is fermented too
warm, I'd say even too hot. Higher temperature fermentations cause all
kinds of bad stuff to be produced while lower temp fermentations produce
more of the good stuff.

Additionally, meads that are too sweet (read sickly sweet) are possibly
the biggest culprit. Not to mention too many chemicals.

Just my two pesos.

Mike

Tao Shan wrote:

>
> Sake and Mead - as different as chalk and cheese! (No hangover with Sake!)
>
If you get a hangover from mead there is something wrong. You should not
get one even if you tie one on real good.

One of the biggest problems with most mead is that it is fermented too
warm, I'd say even too hot. Higher temperature fermentations cause all
kinds of bad stuff to be produced while lower temp fermentations produce
more of the good stuff.

Additionally, meads that are too sweet (read sickly sweet) are possibly
the biggest culprit. Not to mention too many chemicals.

Just my two pesos.

Mike

"MeadMax" > wrote in message
ink.net...
:
:
: Tao Shan wrote:
:
: >
: > Sake and Mead - as different as chalk and cheese! (No hangover with
Sake!)
: >
: If you get a hangover from mead there is something wrong. You should not
: get one even if you tie one on real good.
:
: One of the biggest problems with most mead is that it is fermented too
: warm, I'd say even too hot. Higher temperature fermentations cause all
: kinds of bad stuff to be produced while lower temp fermentations produce
: more of the good stuff.
:
: Additionally, meads that are too sweet (read sickly sweet) are possibly
: the biggest culprit. Not to mention too many chemicals.
:
: Just my two pesos.
:
: Mike


Hi Mike,

True: Warm fermentation does produce what distillers refer to as heads and
tails (pure ethanol does not give hangovers), and reduces the yield that a
yeast gives. A better quality product is arrived at using lower ferment
temperatures which is why sake breweries produce their stuff during the
Winter months.

Having said that, though, a lot of character is derived from the impurities
that are produced in a ferment and so a compromise is often best for meads!

"MeadMax" > wrote in message
ink.net...
:
:
: Tao Shan wrote:
:
: >
: > Sake and Mead - as different as chalk and cheese! (No hangover with
Sake!)
: >
: If you get a hangover from mead there is something wrong. You should not
: get one even if you tie one on real good.
:
: One of the biggest problems with most mead is that it is fermented too
: warm, I'd say even too hot. Higher temperature fermentations cause all
: kinds of bad stuff to be produced while lower temp fermentations produce
: more of the good stuff.
:
: Additionally, meads that are too sweet (read sickly sweet) are possibly
: the biggest culprit. Not to mention too many chemicals.
:
: Just my two pesos.
:
: Mike


Hi Mike,

True: Warm fermentation does produce what distillers refer to as heads and
tails (pure ethanol does not give hangovers), and reduces the yield that a
yeast gives. A better quality product is arrived at using lower ferment
temperatures which is why sake breweries produce their stuff during the
Winter months.

Having said that, though, a lot of character is derived from the impurities
that are produced in a ferment and so a compromise is often best for meads!

Your assumptions are sound to the point of proving them emperically.
They are the same assumptions they made in Australia 10-12 years ago
when they jumped on synthetic corks big time. The problem was that
after 6-8 years they found that their wines were oxidizing under
synthetic corks just as they had under natural corks.

The main theory when I last read the literature was that microscopic
air bubbles in the synthetic material were "leaking" into the wine. I
found that theory to be uncompelling, as I cannot imagine that much 02
being trapped in the tiny spaces of the synthetic materials. So, if
that is not the reason, clearly another explanation pertains. I just
haven't kept up on reading the literature. If someone else has
(Lum?), please educate us.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/


> Hi Jack,
>
> In saying that synthetic corks were superior, I was only registering an
> opinion; however, in arriving at that opinion, I asked myself what the
> purpose of a cork was. The straightforward answer was to provide an 'inert
> barrier' between the alcohol in the bottle and the atmosphere outside.
>
> Corks (as opposed to synthetic plugs) are biodegradable and porous and
> therefore rot and allow the passage of liquid and gas. It is only the fact
> that corks swell in liquid that allows them to fulfil the role of a stopper.
> Otherwise they would be useless (as is evidenced by wine going off when its
> cork dries).
>
> A synthetice plug is not subject to either porosity or biodegradability and
> this is what I based my opinion on.
>
> In the book, Sake Pure and Simple, it is noted that many Sake producers,
> especially in America, now use synthetic plugs and twist-off caps, instead
> of corks, as they provide a superior seal. The fact that Sake can oxidise
> rapidly (and react badly to UV) is why (brown bottles and) modern stoppers
> ares used...
>
> Sake and Mead - as different as chalk and cheese! (No hangover with Sake!)

In rec.crafts.meadmaking Tao Shan > wrote:
> "MeadMax" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> :
> :
> : Tao Shan wrote:
> :
> : >
> : > Sake and Mead - as different as chalk and cheese! (No hangover with
> Sake!)
> : >
> : If you get a hangover from mead there is something wrong. You should not
> : get one even if you tie one on real good.
> :
> : One of the biggest problems with most mead is that it is fermented too
> : warm, I'd say even too hot. Higher temperature fermentations cause all
> : kinds of bad stuff to be produced while lower temp fermentations produce
> : more of the good stuff.
> :
> : Additionally, meads that are too sweet (read sickly sweet) are possibly
> : the biggest culprit. Not to mention too many chemicals.
> :
> : Just my two pesos.
> :
> : Mike


> Hi Mike,

> True: Warm fermentation does produce what distillers refer to as heads and
> tails (pure ethanol does not give hangovers), and reduces the yield that a
> yeast gives. A better quality product is arrived at using lower ferment
> temperatures which is why sake breweries produce their stuff during the
> Winter months.

> Having said that, though, a lot of character is derived from the impurities
> that are produced in a ferment and so a compromise is often best for meads!

Interesting. What is an optimal temperature range for hangover-reduced
fermentation? (Yeasts seem to be labelled with a very broad range of
"working" temperatures.)

Thanks,
WB

In rec.crafts.meadmaking Tao Shan > wrote:
> "MeadMax" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> :
> :
> : Tao Shan wrote:
> :
> : >
> : > Sake and Mead - as different as chalk and cheese! (No hangover with
> Sake!)
> : >
> : If you get a hangover from mead there is something wrong. You should not
> : get one even if you tie one on real good.
> :
> : One of the biggest problems with most mead is that it is fermented too
> : warm, I'd say even too hot. Higher temperature fermentations cause all
> : kinds of bad stuff to be produced while lower temp fermentations produce
> : more of the good stuff.
> :
> : Additionally, meads that are too sweet (read sickly sweet) are possibly
> : the biggest culprit. Not to mention too many chemicals.
> :
> : Just my two pesos.
> :
> : Mike


> Hi Mike,

> True: Warm fermentation does produce what distillers refer to as heads and
> tails (pure ethanol does not give hangovers), and reduces the yield that a
> yeast gives. A better quality product is arrived at using lower ferment
> temperatures which is why sake breweries produce their stuff during the
> Winter months.

> Having said that, though, a lot of character is derived from the impurities
> that are produced in a ferment and so a compromise is often best for meads!

Interesting. What is an optimal temperature range for hangover-reduced
fermentation? (Yeasts seem to be labelled with a very broad range of
"working" temperatures.)

Thanks,
WB

I also run a commercial distillery and the goal is to remove as much of
the heads and tails as possible. Making the cut properly is the big
difference between cheap booz and a fine spirit.

Same goes for mead. The goal, at least in my meadery, is to arrive at a
product that portrays the honey as the main thing.

Low phenol, aldehydes, methynol etc is ideal.

Mike

Tao Shan wrote:

>
> Hi Mike,
>
> True: Warm fermentation does produce what distillers refer to as heads and
> tails (pure ethanol does not give hangovers), and reduces the yield that a
> yeast gives. A better quality product is arrived at using lower ferment
> temperatures which is why sake breweries produce their stuff during the
> Winter months.
>
> Having said that, though, a lot of character is derived from the impurities
> that are produced in a ferment and so a compromise is often best for meads!
>
>

What about adding wax to the top of the bottle?

(Jack Keller) wrote in message . com>...
> Your assumptions are sound to the point of proving them emperically.
> They are the same assumptions they made in Australia 10-12 years ago
> when they jumped on synthetic corks big time. The problem was that
> after 6-8 years they found that their wines were oxidizing under
> synthetic corks just as they had under natural corks.
>
> The main theory when I last read the literature was that microscopic
> air bubbles in the synthetic material were "leaking" into the wine. I
> found that theory to be uncompelling, as I cannot imagine that much 02
> being trapped in the tiny spaces of the synthetic materials. So, if
> that is not the reason, clearly another explanation pertains. I just
> haven't kept up on reading the literature. If someone else has
> (Lum?), please educate us.
>
> Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
> http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/
>


I was under the impression that ageing was in part an oxidative
process, so you actually want some oxygen permeating the cork over
time.

The response so far has been very positive. From soing some reading,
I have seen that ageign potential in white wines (so I an
extrapolating to meads somewhat) is due to acidity, residual sugar,
alcohol content and (the hardest to measure) flavor. Meads are good
on residual sugar, alcohol and in some cases (depending on how it is
made) flavor. Meads generally do not have high acidity.

I guess if I made a mel with soething like blackberries, the acidity
could be brought up, plus there would be some tannin to help....but I
don;t know if the flaovr of the blackberries is one that can survive
long peroids of time without going weird or tasting off.


I think the safest thing would be to make a sack (very sweet) mead
with a strong flavored honey. Of course, safe dosen;t always lend
itself to memorable.

Mind me asking the name of your venture?

Regards
"MeadMax" > wrote in message
ink.net...
:I also run a commercial distillery and the goal is to remove as much of
: the heads and tails as possible. Making the cut properly is the big
: difference between cheap booz and a fine spirit.
:
: Same goes for mead. The goal, at least in my meadery, is to arrive at a
: product that portrays the honey as the main thing.
:
: Low phenol, aldehydes, methynol etc is ideal.
:
: Mike
:
: Tao Shan wrote:
:
: >
: > Hi Mike,
: >
: > True: Warm fermentation does produce what distillers refer to as heads
and
: > tails (pure ethanol does not give hangovers), and reduces the yield that
a
: > yeast gives. A better quality product is arrived at using lower ferment
: > temperatures which is why sake breweries produce their stuff during the
: > Winter months.
: >
: > Having said that, though, a lot of character is derived from the
impurities
: > that are produced in a ferment and so a compromise is often best for
meads!
: >
: >
:

"Tao Shan" > wrote in message
o.uk...
>
> "Tao Shan" > wrote in message
> .uk...
>
> PS Quite often, a small amount of oxidisation and reaction, resulting from
> the choice of cork, can add some character to a wine - possibly why corks
> are still found in the bottles of the very best wines?
>
> : Sake and Mead - as different as chalk and cheese! (No hangover with
Sake!)
> :

Perhaps that ... or the fact that they are expected and someone paying
$100 a bottle for wine may look at a synthetic cork and decide it isn't
worth that much. Not saying that is definitively the case... but it may
be part of it.

Meadmax operates Rabbitsfoot meadery based in California.

http://www.rabbitsfootmeadery.com/



"Tao Shan" > wrote in message
. uk...
> Mind me asking the name of your venture?
>
> Regards
> "MeadMax" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> :I also run a commercial distillery and the goal is to remove as much of
> : the heads and tails as possible. Making the cut properly is the big
> : difference between cheap booz and a fine spirit.
> :
> : Same goes for mead. The goal, at least in my meadery, is to arrive at a
> : product that portrays the honey as the main thing.
> :
> : Low phenol, aldehydes, methynol etc is ideal.
> :
> : Mike
> :
> : Tao Shan wrote:
> :
> : >
> : > Hi Mike,
> : >
> : > True: Warm fermentation does produce what distillers refer to as heads
> and
> : > tails (pure ethanol does not give hangovers), and reduces the yield
that
> a
> : > yeast gives. A better quality product is arrived at using lower
ferment
> : > temperatures which is why sake breweries produce their stuff during
the
> : > Winter months.
> : >
> : > Having said that, though, a lot of character is derived from the
> impurities
> : > that are produced in a ferment and so a compromise is often best for
> meads!
> : >
> : >
> :
>
>

Rabbit's Foot Meadery http://www.rabbitsfootmeadery.com

Tao Shan wrote:

> Mind me asking the name of your venture?
>
> Regards
> "MeadMax" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> :I also run a commercial distillery and the goal is to remove as much of
> : the heads and tails as possible. Making the cut properly is the big
> : difference between cheap booz and a fine spirit.
> :
> : Same goes for mead. The goal, at least in my meadery, is to arrive at a
> : product that portrays the honey as the main thing.
> :
> : Low phenol, aldehydes, methynol etc is ideal.
> :
> : Mike
> :
> : Tao Shan wrote:
> :
> : >
> : > Hi Mike,
> : >
> : > True: Warm fermentation does produce what distillers refer to as heads
> and
> : > tails (pure ethanol does not give hangovers), and reduces the yield that
> a
> : > yeast gives. A better quality product is arrived at using lower ferment
> : > temperatures which is why sake breweries produce their stuff during the
> : > Winter months.
> : >
> : > Having said that, though, a lot of character is derived from the
> impurities
> : > that are produced in a ferment and so a compromise is often best for
> meads!
> : >
> : >
> :
>
>

> I was under the impression that ageing was in part an oxidative
> process, so you actually want some oxygen permeating the cork over
> time.

No. Aging in a barrel is part oxidative. Bulk aging in a carboy is
part oxidative (oxygen was reduced when you previously handled the
wine, as in racking). Aging in a bottle is reductive -- no oxygen is
desired.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

> I was under the impression that ageing was in part an oxidative
> process, so you actually want some oxygen permeating the cork over
> time.

No. Aging in a barrel is part oxidative. Bulk aging in a carboy is
part oxidative (oxygen was reduced when you previously handled the
wine, as in racking). Aging in a bottle is reductive -- no oxygen is
desired.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

DJ wrote:

> What about adding wax to the top of the bottle?

I've just made my first batch of melomel which is still conditioning.
When the time comes to bottle, I had just planned on bottling it like I
do my beers in brown beer bottles with crown caps. Since I've never
even tasted a mead, I don't know if I'm going to like this and so I
don't want to invest in a corker. Will it be okay to just use crown
caps, or does the cork itself somehow contribute something to the mead?

Thanks for any help.

Bill Velek

Bill Velek > wrote:
>I've just made my first batch of melomel which is still conditioning.
>When the time comes to bottle, I had just planned on bottling it like I
>do my beers in brown beer bottles with crown caps. Since I've never
>even tasted a mead, I don't know if I'm going to like this and so I
>don't want to invest in a corker. Will it be okay to just use crown
>caps, or does the cork itself somehow contribute something to the mead?

Only oxygen when the corks dries out. ;-)

Cap away, Bill.
--
Joel Plutchak "Eat everything. Have fun." - Julia Child.
plutchak at [...]

Joel > wrote in message
...
> Bill Velek > wrote:
> >I've just made my first batch of melomel which is still conditioning.
> >When the time comes to bottle, I had just planned on bottling it like I
> >do my beers in brown beer bottles with crown caps. Since I've never
> >even tasted a mead, I don't know if I'm going to like this and so I
> >don't want to invest in a corker. Will it be okay to just use crown
> >caps, or does the cork itself somehow contribute something to the mead?
>
> Only oxygen when the corks dries out. ;-)
>
> Cap away, Bill.

Been making mead since 1978; let it go still, outgas etc, and then cork
it. It takes at least a year to make good mead, sometimes two or three
years.

> --
> Joel Plutchak "Eat everything. Have fun." - Julia Child.
> plutchak at [...]

Bob wrote:

snip

Bob, if you don't mind, I'm going to take your recommendation one step
at a time:

> Been making mead since 1978; let it go still, ...

I assume that you are speaking now about letting it clear after the
final racking for bulk conditioning. I originally fermented in buckets,
and then racked to carboys after about 10 days or so. There was some
initial signs of bubbling after I did that -- whether it was outgasing
or additional fermentation after I roused the yeast by racking -- but
there is no kraeusen at all now, nor signs of bubbling, so I moved both
carboys into a quiet corner of our bedroom where they won't be disturbed.

Questions: I'm almost positive that there was some yeast transferred to
the carboys with the melomel; how long should I let my melomel sit on it
while conditioning, or should I plan on racking again at some point into
a third fermenter for additional 'bulk' aging/conditioning?

If I rack again, should I be adding some tannin or tea (for tannins) or
possibly some clarifier of some sort like maybe gelatin, etc. ... or
will that remove stuff that is needed for body/mouthfeel/flavor?

> ... outgas etc, ...

How do I outgas without aerating (risking oxidation)? Is there a
special tool? ... And what is the "etc" that you indicated?

> ... and then cork it. ...

Others have said that crown caps are okay, so that's what I plan to use.

> ... It takes at least a year to make good mead, sometimes two or three
> years.

Well, I had made this for _this_ Christmas, hoping that it would be
drinkable then, so I may have a few at that time, and then maybe I'll
try one bottle each month, trying to note how it changes along the way.
I should be able to bottle about 80 bottles or more, so I should be
able to spread this out over a few years, even if I share a few with
others each Christmas.

Thanks for all the info.

Bill Velek

Bill Velek > wrote in message
...
> Bob wrote:
>
> snip
>
> Bob, if you don't mind, I'm going to take your recommendation one step
> at a time:
>
> > Been making mead since 1978; let it go still, ...
>
> I assume that you are speaking now about letting it clear after the
> final racking for bulk conditioning. I originally fermented in buckets,
> and then racked to carboys after about 10 days or so. There was some
> initial signs of bubbling after I did that -- whether it was outgasing
> or additional fermentation after I roused the yeast by racking -- but
> there is no kraeusen at all now, nor signs of bubbling, so I moved both
> carboys into a quiet corner of our bedroom where they won't be disturbed.

I let it sit in the primary fermenter with an airlock on it til it is
absolutely clear and still. Zero bubbles from the airlock. This takes about
6 months. I then add one campden tablet per gallon and wait til it is clear
=again=.

>
> Questions: I'm almost positive that there was some yeast transferred to
> the carboys with the melomel; how long should I let my melomel sit on it
> while conditioning, or should I plan on racking again at some point into
> a third fermenter for additional 'bulk' aging/conditioning?

After the mead has completely finished fermenting and the cloudiness
from the campden tablets is gone, and the lees are clearly all packed tight
at the bottom, I rack it into a carboy that has 5 cloves per gallon. I love
the flavor of the cloves and it also seems to really help clarification in
the final stages too. At this point I add one sodium benzoate tablet per
gallon and wait for it to achieve crystalline clarity again! For me, I am
sure a wine is no longer fermenting, and has outgassed enough when the water
levels in the double chamber airlock are even.
NB: After adding anything that impairs clarity by virtue of floaters, I
rotate the carboys 1/8 turn daily, till the ones that are going to sink have
done so, and the ones that never will still remain. This takes a few weeks.
At this point, it is ready to rack directly from the carboy. The entire
procedure usually takes me just about a year.
>
> If I rack again, should I be adding some tannin or tea (for tannins) or
> possibly some clarifier of some sort like maybe gelatin, etc. ... or
> will that remove stuff that is needed for body/mouthfeel/flavor?

I never add anything except enough honey =initially= to make sure it
will still be sweet (and strong!) and a few cloves. I =never= go for .990
dryness; personal taste. I believe in gravity and ionic attraction. All the
times I've used finings like gelatin, it makes a larger mass of lees at the
bottom, hence I lose wine. This is not good.
>
> > ... outgas etc, ...
>
> How do I outgas without aerating (risking oxidation)? Is there a
> special tool? ... And what is the "etc" that you indicated?

Like I said, I just let the airlocks go to a point where the level on
both sides is equal; temp changes and weather changes will make it flop
around, but it will settle to even eventually. This really takes time.
>
> > ... and then cork it. ...
>
> Others have said that crown caps are okay, so that's what I plan to use.

I've had mead begin refermentation (years ago, not since I developed my
current procedure) and shatter all the bottles in a cascade of foam from the
kitchen cabinets. I like corks, you can see a bit of leakage if by some
chance it happens, you just drink those bottles first! :-)
>
> > ... It takes at least a year to make good mead, sometimes two or three
> > years.
>
> Well, I had made this for _this_ Christmas, hoping that it would be
> drinkable then, so I may have a few at that time, and then maybe I'll
> try one bottle each month, trying to note how it changes along the way.

I started mine 3/23/04 and I am trying as hard as I can to get it
bottled before Christmas!

> I should be able to bottle about 80 bottles or more, so I should be
> able to spread this out over a few years, even if I share a few with
> others each Christmas.
>
> Thanks for all the info.
>
> Bill Velek
>