i have a batch of cyser (my first home brew batch ! yay me !) that's
about ready to be racked off the primary fermenter (ye 3.5 gal bucket),
it's bubbling less than once every minute and a half or so.

local brew shop is closed, and i want to age in some charcoal or oak
chips to help smooth and flavor the mead a bit, but i want to make
sure that i'm doing the right thing. i could bottle and store in my
closet or something, but i really don't want cyser all over my bedroom
because the ferment wasn't finished. =)

so my questions are thus:

1. i'd like to get the benefits of the continued fermentation, ie, the
malo-lactic fermentation. if i bottled the cyser as is (filtering it,
fining it) and stuck it in the fridge would it still receive the benefit
of this continued fermentation?

2. how about flavoring? if i added a little bit of charcoal or oak chips
would refrigeration interfere with the "conditioning"?


3. i don't want to because of space issues, but if cold aging isn't
going to do it any good, should i just rack it into a secondary and
wait it out? for my first batch, i want to run as few risks of
contamination as possible.

thank you all so much for your time, i've learned a lot just by reading
from the respective groups!


if it helps, here's some stats on it so far (i haven't popped the
top, so i don't know my final gravity.... yet... but i'm praying its
halfway decent)

OG 1.098
fermenting time 22 days and counting

basic ingredients
2 or 2.5 gal distilled water
2 lbs honey
3.5 lbs dark brown sugar (cane not beet)
1/2 gal apple juice (no preserv.)
1 can apple juice conc. (ditto, enough to make a half gal i think)
couple Tbsp lemon juice
6 bags of tea (2 ea of lemon tea, orange spice, earl gray)

our ending volume is a little over 2 gal, in ye 3.5 gal bucket. it
started bubbling pretty decently, stayed bubbling most of the past few
weeks between every 3 and 6 seconds.

tasted pretty good before the yeast was added, and the bouquet is
.... complex and different. i'll keep everyone updated as it comes...


Saul Sabia

"Saul_Sabia" > wrote in message
om...

> so my questions are thus:
>
> 1. i'd like to get the benefits of the continued fermentation, ie, the
> malo-lactic fermentation. if i bottled the cyser as is (filtering it,
> fining it) and stuck it in the fridge would it still receive the
benefit
> of this continued fermentation?

I do not do an MLF on mead but if you want to I think you should start it
right after or even during secondary. Do not filter or cold treat. Just do
it.

>
> 2. how about flavoring? if i added a little bit of charcoal or oak chips
> would refrigeration interfere with the "conditioning"?
>

Refrigeration will retard aging. I think you are confusing "Cold
Stabalization" with "Cold Storage". Cold stabalization is used to treat
some wines to stabalize some chemical processes that go on. It can cause
some reactions to complete and sedement to fall out before you put it in
bottles. It is not wise to store your wine in a really cold environment.
50 to 60 degrees is okay but colder will do little other than retard aging.

>
> 3. i don't want to because of space issues, but if cold aging isn't
> going to do it any good, should i just rack it into a secondary and
> wait it out? for my first batch, i want to run as few risks of
> contamination as possible.
>

IMHO Just put it in bulk aging under an airlock in a room that does not get
uncomfortably hot or cold and let it sit for a year or so. Do watch the
airlock and make sure that it does not dry out. Then after a year, taste it
and see if you like it. If so, bottle.

Another aproach would be to bottle a gallon and put the rest back to bulk
age in gallon jugs. You can sample the bottles untill they run out and then
bottle another gallon.

One basic rule that over shaddows my advise or anyone else's. If you like
it, it is ready to drink.

Good luck

Ray

(Saul_Sabia) wrote in message . com>...

> i have a batch of cyser (my first home brew batch ! yay me !) that's
> about ready to be racked off the primary fermenter (ye 3.5 gal bucket),
> it's bubbling less than once every minute and a half or so.

> OG 1.098
> fermenting time 22 days and counting
>
> basic ingredients
> 2 or 2.5 gal distilled water
> 2 lbs honey
> 3.5 lbs dark brown sugar (cane not beet)
> 1/2 gal apple juice (no preserv.)
> 1 can apple juice conc. (ditto, enough to make a half gal i think)
> couple Tbsp lemon juice
> 6 bags of tea (2 ea of lemon tea, orange spice, earl gray)
>
> our ending volume is a little over 2 gal, in ye 3.5 gal bucket. it
> started bubbling pretty decently, stayed bubbling most of the past few
> weeks between every 3 and 6 seconds.
>
> tasted pretty good before the yeast was added, and the bouquet is
> ... complex and different. i'll keep everyone updated as it comes...

Well, i did it! approximately 24 days of fermentation, and my first
batch of wine is done! i popped the cap off the bucket and was struck
by how potent the aroma was... very strong, cheap-apple-wine kind of
smell, but man oh man i could smell the alcohol from across the room!

the original must tasted all honey until about halfway through the
drink, the apple juice would hit with a nice 'pang!' and fade away into
sweetness. in fermented form the apple has 'fuzzed' a little bit and
is emphasizing the alcohol a little much. i'm tasting the brown sugar
much more now, the taste of honey has almost entirely disappeared.

what surprised me most is when i took measurements:

the original specific gravity was 1.098, and it finished at 1.045ish,
which translates into

pot alc 13.%
- pot alc .5%
---------------
final alc (roughly) 12% (!)

it fermented out to "dry" and while it could probably use some sweetening,
what i'm going to do is start another batch, this time i'm trying a coffee
wine, and let this stuff age for a while, to see if the that apple fuzz
could blend in a little better with the rest of the flavors.

i definitely need to clarify this wine, its very cloudy. it's late at night
right now, and i've been bouncing off the walls, happy at hitting and
exceeding my 10% alcohol mark, so i might do it tomorrow night. we'll see.

i'll try and post the pix i've been taking with my camera phone, whenever
sprint gets their server up and running.

i guess i just wanted to say thank you to everyone who posts to these
newsgroups, you've helped me out a lot with your insights, suggestions,
and recipes! now, off to dream of future (successful) homebrews!



Saul Sabia

Congratulations on making something that you seem to enjoy.

Only one comment. All your numbers seem fairly consistent except the
finishing SG. You said it dropped from 1.098 to about 1.045. The 1.045
number would indicate a stuck or incomplete ferment with a very high
residual sugar and probably only about 7% alcohol. You might check this one
number as everything else seems consistent. Next time you open a bottle
just double check the SG.

Ray

"Saul_Sabia" > wrote in message
om...
> (Saul_Sabia) wrote in message
. com>...
>
> > i have a batch of cyser (my first home brew batch ! yay me !) that's
> > about ready to be racked off the primary fermenter (ye 3.5 gal bucket),
> > it's bubbling less than once every minute and a half or so.
>
> > OG 1.098
> > fermenting time 22 days and counting
> >
> > basic ingredients
> > 2 or 2.5 gal distilled water
> > 2 lbs honey
> > 3.5 lbs dark brown sugar (cane not beet)
> > 1/2 gal apple juice (no preserv.)
> > 1 can apple juice conc. (ditto, enough to make a half gal i think)
> > couple Tbsp lemon juice
> > 6 bags of tea (2 ea of lemon tea, orange spice, earl gray)
> >
> > our ending volume is a little over 2 gal, in ye 3.5 gal bucket. it
> > started bubbling pretty decently, stayed bubbling most of the past few
> > weeks between every 3 and 6 seconds.
> >
> > tasted pretty good before the yeast was added, and the bouquet is
> > ... complex and different. i'll keep everyone updated as it comes...
>
> Well, i did it! approximately 24 days of fermentation, and my first
> batch of wine is done! i popped the cap off the bucket and was struck
> by how potent the aroma was... very strong, cheap-apple-wine kind of
> smell, but man oh man i could smell the alcohol from across the room!
>
> the original must tasted all honey until about halfway through the
> drink, the apple juice would hit with a nice 'pang!' and fade away into
> sweetness. in fermented form the apple has 'fuzzed' a little bit and
> is emphasizing the alcohol a little much. i'm tasting the brown sugar
> much more now, the taste of honey has almost entirely disappeared.
>
> what surprised me most is when i took measurements:
>
> the original specific gravity was 1.098, and it finished at 1.045ish,
> which translates into
>
> pot alc 13.%
> - pot alc .5%
> ---------------
> final alc (roughly) 12% (!)
>
> it fermented out to "dry" and while it could probably use some sweetening,
> what i'm going to do is start another batch, this time i'm trying a coffee
> wine, and let this stuff age for a while, to see if the that apple fuzz
> could blend in a little better with the rest of the flavors.
>
> i definitely need to clarify this wine, its very cloudy. it's late at
night
> right now, and i've been bouncing off the walls, happy at hitting and
> exceeding my 10% alcohol mark, so i might do it tomorrow night. we'll see.
>
> i'll try and post the pix i've been taking with my camera phone, whenever
> sprint gets their server up and running.
>
> i guess i just wanted to say thank you to everyone who posts to these
> newsgroups, you've helped me out a lot with your insights, suggestions,
> and recipes! now, off to dream of future (successful) homebrews!
>
>
>
> Saul Sabia
>

(Saul_Sabia) wrote in message . com>...
> (Saul_Sabia) wrote in message . com>...

> what surprised me most is when i took measurements:
>
> the original specific gravity was 1.098, and it finished at 1.045ish,
> which translates into
>
> pot alc 13.%
> - pot alc .5%
> ---------------
> final alc (roughly) 12% (!)
>

let's try that again... 1.098 original gravity, 1.004 final gravity.
there. that's a little bit better. mental note to self: don't shift the
decimal point when you're taking a hydrometer reading at 2am. =)



Saul Sabia

(Saul_Sabia) wrote in message . com>...
> (Saul_Sabia) wrote in message . com>...
>
> what surprised me most is when i took measurements:
>
> the original specific gravity was 1.098, and it finished at 1.045ish,
> which translates into
>
> pot alc 13.%
> - pot alc .5%
> ---------------
> final alc (roughly) 12% (!)

that 1.045 should read 1.004. sorry. it was late. i was tired, and more
than a little giddy. =)


Saul Sabia

> > the original specific gravity was 1.098, and it finished at 1.045ish,
> > which translates into
> >
> > pot alc 13.%
> > - pot alc .5%
> > ---------------
> > final alc (roughly) 12% (!)
>
> that 1.045 should read 1.004. sorry. it was late. i was tired, and more
> than a little giddy. =)

That is more reasonable, what type of yeast did you use?

Steve

"Ray" > wrote in message om>...

> Only one comment. All your numbers seem fairly consistent except the
> finishing SG. You said it dropped from 1.098 to about 1.045. The 1.045
> number would indicate a stuck or incomplete ferment with a very high
> residual sugar and probably only about 7% alcohol. You might check this one
> number as everything else seems consistent. Next time you open a bottle
> just double check the SG.

yeah, so i mistyped. happens at 3 am. sorry. what i meant was

OG 1.098
FG 1.004

trust me, it's definitely got a kick to it. i couldn't wait, it's not
clarified yet, and i'm kicking back drinking some right now. lots of honey
and a nice brown sugar/honey base. yummmm. can't wait to see how it turns
out in 6 months or so... should be really, really good. =)



Saul Sabia

"Steve Thompson" > wrote in message >...
> > > the original specific gravity was 1.098, and it finished at 1.045ish,
> > > which translates into
> > >
> > > pot alc 13.%
> > > - pot alc .5%
> > > ---------------
> > > final alc (roughly) 12% (!)
> >
> > that 1.045 should read 1.004. sorry. it was late. i was tired, and more
> > than a little giddy. =)
>
> That is more reasonable, what type of yeast did you use?


Cote-de-Blanc. it was what the nice person behind the counter at my local
brewshop recommended, she said it was a good all-around fruit yeast,
with reasonable alcohol tolerance and reasonable competetiveness. that's
about all the information i have on it. i don't know it's actual alc.
tolerance, but i'm pretty sure i wasn't pushing it too hard.


Saul Sabia

"Steve Thompson" > wrote in message >...
> > > the original specific gravity was 1.098, and it finished at 1.045ish,
> > > which translates into
> > >
> > > pot alc 13.%
> > > - pot alc .5%
> > > ---------------
> > > final alc (roughly) 12% (!)
> >
> > that 1.045 should read 1.004. sorry. it was late. i was tired, and more
> > than a little giddy. =)
>
> That is more reasonable, what type of yeast did you use?


Cote-de-Blanc. it was what the nice person behind the counter at my local
brewshop recommended, she said it was a good all-around fruit yeast,
with reasonable alcohol tolerance and reasonable competetiveness. that's
about all the information i have on it. i don't know it's actual alc.
tolerance, but i'm pretty sure i wasn't pushing it too hard.


Saul Sabia

"Saul_Sabia" > wrote in message
om...
> "Steve Thompson" > wrote in message
>...
> > > > the original specific gravity was 1.098, and it finished at
1.045ish,
> > > > which translates into
> > > >
> > > > pot alc 13.%
> > > > - pot alc .5%
> > > > ---------------
> > > > final alc (roughly) 12% (!)
> > >
> > > that 1.045 should read 1.004. sorry. it was late. i was tired, and
more
> > > than a little giddy. =)
> >
> > That is more reasonable, what type of yeast did you use?
>
>
> Cote-de-Blanc. it was what the nice person behind the counter at my local
> brewshop recommended, she said it was a good all-around fruit yeast,
> with reasonable alcohol tolerance and reasonable competetiveness. that's
> about all the information i have on it. i don't know it's actual alc.
> tolerance, but i'm pretty sure i wasn't pushing it too hard.

Côte de Blancs, aka Epernay II, doesn't have much alcohol tolerance. That's
why your specific gravity is still above 1.000. IOW, the wine is still
sweet because not all the sugar was fermented.

You'll need to stabilize the wine with sorbate and sulfite, or sterile
filter it before bottling. If you're new at this the latter is probably not
an option.

Tom S

> Côte de Blancs, aka Epernay II, doesn't have much alcohol tolerance. That's
> why your specific gravity is still above 1.000. IOW, the wine is still
> sweet because not all the sugar was fermented.
>
> You'll need to stabilize the wine with sorbate and sulfite, or sterile
> filter it before bottling. If you're new at this the latter is probably not
> an option.

Or you could add EC-1118 which has more alcohol tolerance and let it
ferment to true dryness over a few more weeks.

Don

(Don S) wrote in message . com>...
> > Côte de Blancs, aka Epernay II, doesn't have much alcohol tolerance. That's
> > why your specific gravity is still above 1.000. IOW, the wine is still
> > sweet because not all the sugar was fermented.
> >
> > You'll need to stabilize the wine with sorbate and sulfite, or sterile
> > filter it before bottling. If you're new at this the latter is probably not
> > an option.
>
> Or you could add EC-1118 which has more alcohol tolerance and let it
> ferment to true dryness over a few more weeks.

well, i think at this point i'd probably call it good and just stabilize it.
next time around i'll use the EC wine yeast, which i do have. i'm making
a new batch this weekend, so i'll just use a few packets of that instead of
the cote-de-blanc. i'm actually popping another batch open as i'm making
this new batch, and we'll see how that goes as well, i don't think i used
cote-de-blanc, but i'll have to check my notes. (wherever those pesky things
went to)

makes sense about it still being sweet. it should probably have been a little
bit lower final gravity... but i only used about 2 lbs or so of sugar total
per gallon (including apple juice, honey, and brown sugar all together).
the hydrometer gave me a 13% pot. alc. reading, em 1.095 or whatever it was.
so having it go down to 1.004 was pretty dang good for me, anyways, esp.
for a first-time batch.

but if cote-de-blanc dies around 12 or 13%, that would make sense why the
fermentation pretty much stopped at that point. i can't wait to see what
happens when i use the EC yeast!


Saul Sabia

>
> makes sense about it still being sweet. it should probably have been a little
> bit lower final gravity...

You probably want to sorbat it then as it may start
fermenting in the bottle if it's still off-dry.

Don

> but if cote-de-blanc dies around 12 or 13%, that would make sense why the
> fermentation pretty much stopped at that point. i can't wait to see what
> happens when i use the EC yeast!

Saul, Côte des Blancs will go to 13% in a cool fermentation, which is
plenty for an apple-based wine and some would say too high for an
apple-based mead.

After tasting six apple wines last fall ranging from 8.6% abv to 13.5%
abv, I have rethought apple and think the dry wine tastes best at
around 11-11.5%. Beyond that and you start tasting the alcohol unless
veiled with sugar or honey (which you did by accident), but the point
is if you are making mead or wine then go for balance. If you just
want high alcohol, there are other ways to get it.

Just my opinion. There are no rights or wrongs here as long as you
like what you make.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net

> but if cote-de-blanc dies around 12 or 13%, that would make sense why the
> fermentation pretty much stopped at that point. i can't wait to see what
> happens when i use the EC yeast!

Saul, Côte des Blancs will go to 13% in a cool fermentation, which is
plenty for an apple-based wine and some would say too high for an
apple-based mead.

After tasting six apple wines last fall ranging from 8.6% abv to 13.5%
abv, I have rethought apple and think the dry wine tastes best at
around 11-11.5%. Beyond that and you start tasting the alcohol unless
veiled with sugar or honey (which you did by accident), but the point
is if you are making mead or wine then go for balance. If you just
want high alcohol, there are other ways to get it.

Just my opinion. There are no rights or wrongs here as long as you
like what you make.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net