I've had tremendous success with Spagnol's gelatin/kieselsol combo.
I've used it on reds and whites and it's rarely let me down . Seems
there is a supply problem. I can't get my hands on it.

I'm ready to fine a few wines again and finally caved in and bought
SuperKleer KC, a kieselsol/chitosan combo. I'm confident those agents
will work but I'm worried they will strip away some of the goodies as
well.

Any comments? Any experience good or bad?

Cheers,

Jim

I was hoping some one would comment on this myself. I recently tried the
Super Kleer with great success it terms of clearing some wine that betonite
did not help. I do not know if it strips anything.

You said you have used gelatin/kieselsol and the SuperKleer is
kieselsol/chitosan. Since you have used the kieselsol that part of the
SuperKleer should not give you a problem. I went with the chitosan because
most kits I have made include chitosan and it seems to work well with them.

This may be round about reasoning but it is a reason.

Ray

"glad heart" > wrote in message
m...
> I've had tremendous success with Spagnol's gelatin/kieselsol combo.
> I've used it on reds and whites and it's rarely let me down . Seems
> there is a supply problem. I can't get my hands on it.
>
> I'm ready to fine a few wines again and finally caved in and bought
> SuperKleer KC, a kieselsol/chitosan combo. I'm confident those agents
> will work but I'm worried they will strip away some of the goodies as
> well.
>
> Any comments? Any experience good or bad?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jim

>I was hoping some one would comment on this myself. I recently tried the
>Super Kleer with great success it terms of clearing some wine that betonite
>did not help. I do not know if it strips anything.

I'm glad you brought this up. I recently had 3 batches of hazy white wine, all
from grapes. With 2, I tried bentonite with only marginal results. I followed
that with isinglass, and within 3-4 days, the wines were crystal clear.

For the 3rd one, I figured I could skip the bentonite, but after a week of
isinglass only, I see virtually no clearing.

Thoughts?

Lee

Good observation. I had two white grape wines that did had not cleared
after 5 months. I hit them with betonite. One cleared over the next month
and the other did not. I hit it with SuperKleer, the first time I ever used
it, and it cleared crystal clear over night. Eureka, this is the magic
bullet!

I had a batches of Cherry, Apple, Peach, and Rhubarb that were cloudy after
6-9 months. The Peach I had already hit with betonite. Used Super Kleer on
all of them. The Apple cleared over night. The Cherry cleared a little.
No significant effect on the Rhubarb or Peach even though the Peach and
already seen betonite.

Okay, SuperKleer is a miracle cure sometimes but there is no magic bullet.
Any suggestions for the next round?

I have made wine for 25+ years but have never had the kind of problem with
hazes that I have had over the last 2 years.

Ray

"LG1111" > wrote in message
...
> >I was hoping some one would comment on this myself. I recently tried the
> >Super Kleer with great success it terms of clearing some wine that
betonite
> >did not help. I do not know if it strips anything.
>
> I'm glad you brought this up. I recently had 3 batches of hazy white
wine, all
> from grapes. With 2, I tried bentonite with only marginal results. I
followed
> that with isinglass, and within 3-4 days, the wines were crystal clear.
>
> For the 3rd one, I figured I could skip the bentonite, but after a week of
> isinglass only, I see virtually no clearing.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Lee

(LG1111) wrote in message >...
>
> I'm glad you brought this up. I recently had 3 batches of hazy white wine, all
> from grapes. With 2, I tried bentonite with only marginal results. I followed
> that with isinglass, and within 3-4 days, the wines were crystal clear.
>
> For the 3rd one, I figured I could skip the bentonite, but after a week of
> isinglass only, I see virtually no clearing.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Lee

Lee:

The fining agents work by attracting oppositely charged (+, -)
particles. That's why kits come with 2 clearing agents (like bentonite
and isinglass) or the mentioned kieselsol/gelatin, kieselsol/chitosan
combos. So on your 2 batches, you've added both types of clearing
agents and the wine cleared. On the 3rd you added just one and it
didn't. It looks like you need to add the bentonite or another
clearing agent that attract the same type of particles as bentonite.
Sorry, don't have my reference books here so can't be more specific.

Pp

"pp" > wrote in message
om...
> The fining agents work by attracting oppositely charged (+, -)
> particles. That's why kits come with 2 clearing agents (like bentonite
> and isinglass) or the mentioned kieselsol/gelatin, kieselsol/chitosan
> combos. So on your 2 batches, you've added both types of clearing
> agents and the wine cleared. On the 3rd you added just one and it
> didn't. It looks like you need to add the bentonite or another
> clearing agent that attract the same type of particles as bentonite.
> Sorry, don't have my reference books here so can't be more specific.

That's the gist of it. It's called counterfining, and it's often
necessary - especially in the case of white wines, which tend to be low in
tannin.

Tom S

(pp) wrote in message . com>...

>
> Lee:
>
> The fining agents work by attracting oppositely charged (+, -)
> particles. That's why kits come with 2 clearing agents (like bentonite
> and isinglass) or the mentioned kieselsol/gelatin, kieselsol/chitosan
> combos. So on your 2 batches, you've added both types of clearing
> agents and the wine cleared. On the 3rd you added just one and it
> didn't. It looks like you need to add the bentonite or another
> clearing agent that attract the same type of particles as bentonite.
> Sorry, don't have my reference books here so can't be more specific.
>
> Pp


Can you say which fining agent is + and which is -?

Also, if using canned juice or puree, it likely has been heated.
Pectic Enzyme is called for.

I don't know if box juice concentrates are heated or not. But I've
read they are "hot pressed."

As I said, had to consult a reference book:

- charged fining agents, attract + charged particles in wine:
bentonite
tannin
kieselsol

+ charged fining agents, attract - charged particles in wine:
gelatin
PVPP
egg whites
isinglass

Some of these are typically used as combos, as mentioned in previous
post, for ex., kieselsol/gelatin, tannin/gelatin. The fining effect
also depends on the order in which they're added - not clarity but the
sensory impact. And some are better than others for whites, reds, etc.
If you're into this, do a search on previous posts or consult a good
winemaking book.

Pp

(William) wrote in message om>...
>
> Can you say which fining agent is + and which is -?
>
> Also, if using canned juice or puree, it likely has been heated.
> Pectic Enzyme is called for.
>
> I don't know if box juice concentrates are heated or not. But I've
> read they are "hot pressed."