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| Winemaking (rec.crafts.winemaking) Discussion of the process, recipes, tips, techniques and general exchange of lore on the process, methods and history of wine making. Includes traditional grape wines, sparkling wines & champagnes. |
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Brewking white wine kits
I've tried Spagnols white wine kits with very little success. How are
the Brewking whites? Also, is the Luna Rossa a good red? Better than a Cab? |
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Brewking white wine kits
I have am just coming to the end of the secondary fermentation of my first
Selection Luna Rossa. so ask me in about a years time. I have had excellent results with the Selection whites and did enjoy the Selection Murray River Reserve which I aged for over a year in bulk. The last bottle was about 3 years old when I finished it off and was quite excellent. As a red wine drinker may I say that the whites are always better (IMHO) than the reds. I am bulk ageing my first Selection Estate Old Vine Zinfandel which I started on 28 September which I shall not now disturb until September next when I bottle it up. It has been said many times before ( by me as well ) but in kits it is so much well worth buying a kits at the higher end of the price range, basically as high as you think you can afford. Then age it for as long as you can but not less than 6 months. With kits especially, the wines which are reputed to be ready for drinking in "28 days" are just not ready at all and even a month more of age will make an appreciable improvement In UK the basic "drink in one week kits" cost about £15- £18 for a 5 gallon ( imp) kit and are indeed pretty basic ( I am being polite). For about £30+ you can get a very reasonable white wine kit, needing no sugar, that will bulk age and be very pleasant to drink. Reds at that price I find too "thin". The BK Selection kits kick in at about £50+ -- the whites slight cheaper than the reds but as I said above I find the whites to be "better" than the reds. In white I enjoy Sauvignon Blanc and Muscadet ( a UK Beaverdale kit ) in particular I suppose 'cos there are so many "chardonnays" out there. In reds I always buy the BK Limited Edition kits when they come available here ( from about march in UK) and have had the best results from that series. They are producing 3 reds this year. I also have had good results from Montepulciano, Barolo and Rioja from Selection International series. Good wine making and drinking! -- Trevor A Panther In South Yorkshire, England Remove "SPAMLESS" from my address line to reply. All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton Anti Virus for your protection too! "Rich" > wrote in message om... > I've tried Spagnols white wine kits with very little success. How are > the Brewking whites? Also, is the Luna Rossa a good red? Better than > a Cab? |
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Brewking white wine kits
> I've tried Spagnols white wine kits with very little success. How are
> the Brewking whites? Also, is the Luna Rossa a good red? Better than > a Cab? I too have been unimpressed by Spagnols kits, a merlot that was done by the book was terrible and a reisling that tastes more like a chardonnay. I've heard good things about Brewking and my one kit by them was OK or good depending on who tastes it. It was a red. I personally have been using Kendall Ridge, both their standard line and their Showcase, with good success. My Showcase Australian Chardonnay done with Lavin D-47 was my best ever. I've also got a B.C. Merlot just getting ready for bulk aging and I'm already thinking that that one may change my mind about reds from kits. A guy I work with who does alot of kits says he now sticks to Cellar Classic. From what I've heard, I'd go with the Brewking if you only have a choice between them and Spagnols. Also, a kit store near where I work say they swear by Mosto Italiano which comes in 6 gallon pails. Don |
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Brewking white wine kits
The first kit I did was a Brew King Selection Chardonnay/Semillon. It
produced a nice, simple wine that I've enjoyed drinking (aged 1 year before bottling). I started an Okanagan Chardonnay of theirs this past July, and am very pleased with how it's coming along - I think it will end up being a fairly full bodied wine. Their Reisling Ice Wine is also very good - I've gotten great comments on it, even from fairly experienced wine drinkers. I haven't tried the Luna Rossa, but a very happy with the Lodi Old Vine Zinfandel - at 18 months of age it's still getting better, and has good Zin character and doesn't just taste like a generic red. Hope that helps, Ed "Rich" > wrote in message om... > I've tried Spagnols white wine kits with very little success. How are > the Brewking whites? Also, is the Luna Rossa a good red? Better than > a Cab? |
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Brewking wine kits
Pinky,
You seem to have exellent results with wine kits. I am a beginner and started two Brew King kits and one Spagnols (all < 3 months). I noticed quite a difference in the instructions. I read in another post you made that you suggest to follow every instruction and, with experience, change things a little. My question: Can we (the beginners), benefit from your experience and have a suggested methode to follow? Like throwing away the bentonite or not, the sorbate, or after how much time shall we stabilize? I would like to start another kit and let it age VERY long. Any suggestions on what modifications I can make on the instructions? Thanks "Pinky" > wrote in message >... > I have am just coming to the end of the secondary fermentation of my first > Selection Luna Rossa. so ask me in about a years time. I have had excellent > results with the Selection whites and did enjoy the Selection Murray River > Reserve which I aged for over a year in bulk. The last bottle was about 3 > years old when I finished it off and was quite excellent. As a red wine > drinker may I say that the whites are always better (IMHO) than the reds. I > am bulk ageing my first Selection Estate Old Vine Zinfandel which I started > on 28 September which I shall not now disturb until September next when I > bottle it up. > It has been said many times before ( by me as well ) but in kits it is so > much well worth buying a kits at the higher end of the price range, > basically as high as you think you can afford. > > Then age it for as long as you can but not less than 6 months. With kits > especially, the wines which are reputed to be ready for drinking in "28 > days" are just not ready at all and even a month more of age will make an > appreciable improvement > > In UK the basic "drink in one week kits" cost about £15- £18 for a 5 > gallon ( imp) kit and are indeed pretty basic ( I am being polite). For > about £30+ you can get a very reasonable white wine kit, needing no sugar, > that will bulk age and be very pleasant to drink. Reds at that price I find > too "thin". The BK Selection kits kick in at about £50+ -- the whites slight > cheaper than the reds but as I said above I find the whites to be "better" > than the reds. In white I enjoy Sauvignon Blanc and Muscadet ( a UK > Beaverdale kit ) in particular I suppose 'cos there are so many > "chardonnays" out there. In reds I always buy the BK Limited Edition kits > when they come available here ( from about march in UK) and have had the > best results from that series. They are producing 3 reds this year. > I also have had good results from Montepulciano, Barolo and Rioja from > Selection International series. > > Good wine making and drinking! > > -- > Trevor A Panther > In South Yorkshire, England > Remove "SPAMLESS" from my address line to reply. > All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton > Anti Virus for your protection too! > "Rich" > wrote in message > om... > > I've tried Spagnols white wine kits with very little success. How are > > the Brewking whites? Also, is the Luna Rossa a good red? Better than > > a Cab? |
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Brewking white wine kits
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Brewking wine kits
Willie.
I don't want to get into great detail here. But here are a couple of basic things I do ( or don't do). 1. With BK kits I always use the bentonite at the beginning as per the instructions. The bentonite is obviously kept in suspension in the rapidly fermenting earlier stages and effectively speeds up the beneficial later interaction with the new wine. 2. I always check the initial SG after a careful mixing. After that I do NOT check the SG daily but only when I am happy the fermentation has finished. 3. I never use the Potassium Sorbate. But I ALWAYS ferment out my wines till they are completely dry. This means that (eg in the BK Selection kits) after the first racking I then ignore the instructions completely until the very last vestiges of fermentation have died away before continuing. This is when there are absolutely no signs of gas passing through the air lock -- a couple of 5 gallon lots {one is the Luna Rosso}which are nearly stopped at the moment, about 1 bubble every 3 minutes --- were started on 9 January -- I shall leave them at least another week before deciding whether to do anything) 4. I rarely, if ever, fine my reds but do a racking and stabilisation ( with an extra SO2 adjustment) when fermentation has finished and then another racking about a month later which normally is the last one before I bottle a long time later. Then I will rack of any fine lees left into a clean carboy and bottle! 5. I do usually fine my whites but not always -- it just depends! 6. I normally use a yeast different to the one supplied in the kit . My friend, a home brew supplier, and I have a chat about the yeast to use ( normally easy but when I am trying something different it takes longer). This is not always advisable since the yeast supplied will guarantee a good fermentation almost without fail. Basically I find that all wines whether kits, "country wines" or grape wine -- are very forgiving and it takes quite a lot to fail! As I often say the best thing to do most of the time is --- nothing! Too many people can't resist fiddling all the time! Just re racked my last summers strawberry -- I hope it turns out as good as my 2002 version. I won't rabbit on any more. You will find your own way with experience. After some 30 years I am still learning -- and still making a few mistakes -- but rarely serious ones. Most home vintners/brewers drink their own mistakes! -- Trevor A Panther In South Yorkshire, England Remove "SPAMLESS" from my address line to reply. All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton Anti Virus for your protection too! "Willie" > wrote in message om... > Pinky, > > You seem to have <snip> <snip> |
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Brewking white wine kits
I did both the Luna Rossa and the Lodi Zin kits a little over 2 years
ago. The Luna Rossa seemed much more promising initially, but I prefer the Zin far more now. The Luna Rossa is more full-bodied in terms of mouthfeel, but in terms of flavour it still seems somewhat acidic and one-dimensional compared to the Zin that has a lot more depth. When I first started the Luna Rossa I thought it might be the one kit that I would continue doing routinely while advancing on to doing most of my wine from fresh grapes. But it hasn't improved with age as much as the single-variety premium kits like the Zin and the North Coast Pinot Noir. The Zin is definitely my favorite of the Brew King reds I've done. About a year ago I started 3 kits from other manufacturers (RJSpagnols, AdVintage and Cellar Craft) since I now had access to them. The first 2 were premium-priced Australian Shiraz. Both seemed from the outset to be fresher and show a bit more varietal character than what I'd gotten used to with all Brew King products, but perhaps not quite as balanced. That still seems to be the case. I get the impression that the Brew King reds are typically a lot more engineered/processed/balanced than some of the competition -- which gives you a safe and predictable product but also tends to make them all somewhat the same. After doing several BK kits, these others were a refreshing change. I agree with Ed in that the Zin kit seems to be the BK kit with the most varietal character. As for the Cellar Craft, it has seemed all along (and still does) to be the best kit I've done. It's the WA State Merlot with the "crushed grape pack". Very smooth, good varietal flavour, lots of soft tannins... Just plain yummy. I did quite a bit of fresh grape wine last year, but if I find myself in need of a kit or two to help build up the cellar I will be most inclined to turn to Cellar Craft. Cheers, Richard "Ed Marks" > wrote in message >... > The first kit I did was a Brew King Selection Chardonnay/Semillon. It > produced a nice, simple wine that I've enjoyed drinking (aged 1 year before > bottling). I started an Okanagan Chardonnay of theirs this past July, and > am very pleased with how it's coming along - I think it will end up being a > fairly full bodied wine. Their Reisling Ice Wine is also very good - I've > gotten great comments on it, even from fairly experienced wine drinkers. > > I haven't tried the Luna Rossa, but a very happy with the Lodi Old Vine > Zinfandel - at 18 months of age it's still getting better, and has good Zin > character and doesn't just taste like a generic red. > > Hope that helps, > > Ed > > > > > "Rich" > wrote in message > om... > > I've tried Spagnols white wine kits with very little success. How are > > the Brewking whites? Also, is the Luna Rossa a good red? Better than > > a Cab? |
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Brewking white wine kits
> I like the Kendall Ridge kits as well (both Classic & Showcase). Have
> you tried any of their KR Collection limited edition kits? > > You say you are unimpressed by Spagnols kits. Which ones have you > tried? FYI Cellar Classic is from Spagnols. > > I haven't made many Brew King kits; however, I suspect that Brew King > Selection, Spagnols Cru Select, and Vineco Kendall Ridge are all very > similar. I haven't tried the KR Collection Limited Edition as I didn't know they even existed. I'll look for them on their web site. The Spagnols kits were a Merlot and a Riesling. I think both were Cru Select Gold. As I said in the original post the merlot was almost undrinkable in fact of all the kits that is the only one I still have bottles of - that says something  The Riesling justwent into the bottle after a year of bulk aging. I think it will actually be an OK wine, just not a Riesling. I've heard nothing but good things about BK kits and they seem to win alot of medals at competitions. Don |
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Brewking white wine kits
> I like the Kendall Ridge kits as well (both Classic & Showcase). Have
> you tried any of their KR Collection limited edition kits? I found their Collection Limited Edition at: http://www.vineco.on.ca/cgi-bin/disp...6&frameset=yes Must be pretty good, two of three are sold out:CALIFORNIA VIOGNIER (Solano County) - SOLD OUT ITALIAN DOLCETTO (Piedmont) - SOLD OUT WASHINGTON STATE MERLOT (Yakima Valley) I think if I do another I'll go for their Australian Cab. I've read that Australia is awash in grapes so the quality of the kits made from their produce should be good. I think there's a certain amount of double thinking or something like that with buying kits. For instance, someone else posted that the harvest in ontario was very bad this year. If I had a choice next year, between an Ontario or British Columbia based kit, I'd probably go for the one from B.C. Don |
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Brewking white wine kits
Richard,
It's good to hear your perspective. I've been wondering about the Luna Rossa, and think I'll pass on it now, but there's a good chance I'll do another Lodi Zin. I've not tryed one of the Cellar Craft kits - it sounds good - but since you're doing more with fresh grapes now, as am I, why not save the skins after you press and add your own to a kit during fermentation? I did that last year with a Brew King Limited Edition Super Tuscan - it's still bulk aging but is really coming along and tastes very good already after 7 months. I saved 6 gallons of skins from my 2003 grapes (sitting in the freezer in 1 gallon bags), and will try adding them to a Brew King Limited Edition kit that I'm getting early this year. It's a great way to improve the kit wine and stretch the value you get from more expensive grapes. Cheers! Ed |
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Brewking wine kits
Thanks a lot, this is what I wanted.
Another question: My two Brewking kits are stabilized as the instruction says and are ageing in carboys. My Spagnols is a Cellar Classic: Grande Shiraz. I started it abour 3 weeks ago, without any bentonite, and is not stabilized yet. If I understood well, I should just rack, add the sulphite, and wait until it clears by itself before racking again, then bottleing? Right? Thanks. "Pinky" > wrote in message >... > Willie. > I don't want to get into great detail here. But here are a couple of basic > things I do ( or don't do). . . |
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Brewking white wine kits
"Ed Marks" > wrote in message >...
> Richard, > > It's good to hear your perspective. I've been wondering about the Luna > Rossa, and think I'll pass on it now, but there's a good chance I'll do > another Lodi Zin. > > I've not tryed one of the Cellar Craft kits - it sounds good - but since > you're doing more with fresh grapes now, as am I, why not save the skins > after you press and add your own to a kit during fermentation? I did that > last year with a Brew King Limited Edition Super Tuscan - it's still bulk > aging but is really coming along and tastes very good already after 7 > months. I saved 6 gallons of skins from my 2003 grapes (sitting in the > freezer in 1 gallon bags), and will try adding them to a Brew King Limited > Edition kit that I'm getting early this year. It's a great way to improve > the kit wine and stretch the value you get from more expensive grapes. > > Cheers! > I have my first ever attempt at wine in the primary but am a veteran beer brewer. The problem with the original question is that we know nothing of his technique, water, sanitation... I found early on that the water in my hometown is hard as a brick and chlorinated. When I discovered RO water for my brewing, the quality jumped 100X. If the original poster is still around I would recommend RO water for his kit and see if that doesn't help improve the quality of his wine. I'm currently brewing a Brew King reisling and expect good results as I'm meticulous about cleanliness and use RO water. > Ed |
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Brewking white wine kits
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Brewking white wine kits
Reverse-Osmosis filtered water
"A.J. Rawls" > wrote in message ... > What is RO water?????? > > > > On 27 Jan 2004 12:54:45 -0800, (Kevin) wrote: > > > > >I have my first ever attempt at wine in the primary but am a veteran > >beer brewer. The problem with the original question is that we know > >nothing of his technique, water, sanitation... > > > >I found early on that the water in my hometown is hard as a brick and > >chlorinated. When I discovered RO water for my brewing, the quality > >jumped 100X. If the original poster is still around I would recommend > >RO water for his kit and see if that doesn't help improve the quality > >of his wine. I'm currently brewing a Brew King reisling and expect > >good results as I'm meticulous about cleanliness and use RO water. > >> Ed > |
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Brewking white wine kits
Kendall Ridge Collection, Cru Select RQ, and Selection Limited Edition
are all one time only, order in advance kits. Some retailers may order extra stock for their store, so look around quickly if you want these. Steve |
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Brewking wine kits
The "fining" vs. "anti fining" lobby resurfaces on here at regular
intervals. IMHO the best fining method is --- Time. But I certainly don't enter into arguments with those who always fine. The same pro's/con's seem to apply to filtering and I can't remember when I last filtered a wine of mine. I suppose I am a bit of an old traditionalist. ( old being the crux of the matter ). Everyone does it a bit differently and there are times when fining is necessary! Basically since I mature all my wines in bulk for a long as I can ( till I need the carboy for a new lot ) and since that process will effectively fine and filter the wine by gravity why should I try and interfere! Since I now live in a small flat ( apartment ) I can manage 40 gallons in my 8 x 23 litre glass and another 20 gallons in 1 gallon glass -- the rest of the space in my bedroom is take up by the bed! Then I have storage space for about 200 bottles in racks in a converted pantry.I have about 20 more glass 1 gal jars and about 10 x 5 gallon polyethylene fermenters in my loft unused for 4 years ( All gals are Imperial ) So my kit wines mature, usually, for about 9 months before I bottle and my country wines for about 18 months -- which I why I don't do as many country wines these days. I would like to consider this topic sufficiently well aired --- at least by me! I shall try and reduce my posting to a minimum again -- I do tend to rabbit on too much. -- Trevor A Panther In South Yorkshire, England Remove "ANTISPAM" from my address line to reply. All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton Anti Virus for your protection too! "Willie" > wrote in message om... > Thanks a lot, this is what I wanted. <snip> <snip. |
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Brewking white wine kits
Hey Ed,
I've thought of that, saving the skins. I think I have some in the freezer. I'm a bit wary though, partly because of an experiment that I did this last year that yielded completely unexpected and undesirable results: The 2002 crush was my first year from central CA valley grapes bought by the lug (second year with fresh grapes). I seemed to have some leftovers and was running out of time (crushing 6 lugs entirely by hand, late at night) so I threw the leftovers in freezer bags and into the freezer (about 6 large bags). I also saved, after pressing the fermented wine, about 3 or 4 bags of pressed skins. Many months later, I thawed all these, mixed them and feremented, thinking I'd get a much more densely flavoured and coloured result. The pressed skins seemed to still have plenty of flavour and colour in them. All of this was 1/2 CabSauv and 1/2 Tempranillo. Oddly, nothing happened as expected. First of all, the SG of the thawed and crushed must was much lower than the wine I did earlier. At first I thought this might be because there was significant alcohol in the skins, but the end result wine seemed to be much weaker too. Secondly, the color and flavour seemed to be a lot weaker too -- perhaps because it fermented so quickly. I left the wine on the skins for the normal duration, even though it fermented quickly. If I'd had more experience with extended maceration (I do now after the 2003 crush), I probably would have let it sit on the skins for a much longer time than I did. Thirdly, the overall yield was MUCH lower for the same volume of grapes than what I'd fermented the previous autumn. This really puzzled me. At first I thought that perhaps somehow the several months of freezing extracted water from the grapes, but if that was the case then I would have expected stronger alcohol and flavour (and I got the opposite). In a nutshell, my end result was less wine, with less flavour and less alcohol than I got from grapes from the same batch months earlier. I really don't know what the explanation is!! Oh, and this wine still doesn't seem to be even starting to clear, after about 9 months in bulk aging, and the pH is significantly higher even though I added proportionately the same amount of acid. ??? In the fall crush I tried a slightly different approach. I removed about 10% of my fresh Syrah juice and refrigerated it while the main batch fermented. I then then took a large proportion of the pressed skins and mixed them with the saved juice, fermented, and did an extended maceration. The idea was that I'd get denser flavours on the main batch while hopefully getting a passable wine on the second pass. I was hopeful, since the skins still seemed to have quite a bit of colour and flavour in them. Unfortunately, neither turned out very well, I think because the Syrah I got this year was just not very good at all. But the second pass stuff was definitely inferior and more watery than than the main batch. In contrast, my extended maceration Zin turned out very very nice! Anyhow, my anything-but-impressive result with re-using pressed skins has made me a little gun-shy towards trying this in the future. Perhaps these central CA valley skins just don't have enough in them to begin with to be of much use? I would though consider using leftover whole grapes with a kit, as I've heard that works well and would help a bit with what I perceived as the kits getting just a bit too weak after proper topping-up with water. BTW, FWIW I always seemed to find that the BK premium kits would seem to get just a little too diluted with proper top-ups with water. The other 3 kits I did last year did not seem to suffer from this, and just generally seemed more concentrated and flavour-packed. Just another anecdotal observation... About the Cellar Craft "crushed grape pack"... I was expecting a bunch of pressed skins but it was really more than that. I would describe it as a very dense grape jam that included lots of skins. The grape concentrate on its own seemed about as dense and flavourful as I'm used to from a premium kit, and this jammy stuff definitely added more to it as well as more sugars. That's about all I know -- I was a little skeptical up front and actually split the kit with a friend to reduce my risk. Now I really wish I hadn't, or that we'd done 2 of them :-) Cheers, Richard "Ed Marks" > wrote in message >... > Richard, > > It's good to hear your perspective. I've been wondering about the Luna > Rossa, and think I'll pass on it now, but there's a good chance I'll do > another Lodi Zin. > > I've not tryed one of the Cellar Craft kits - it sounds good - but since > you're doing more with fresh grapes now, as am I, why not save the skins > after you press and add your own to a kit during fermentation? I did that > last year with a Brew King Limited Edition Super Tuscan - it's still bulk > aging but is really coming along and tastes very good already after 7 > months. I saved 6 gallons of skins from my 2003 grapes (sitting in the > freezer in 1 gallon bags), and will try adding them to a Brew King Limited > Edition kit that I'm getting early this year. It's a great way to improve > the kit wine and stretch the value you get from more expensive grapes. > > Cheers! > > Ed |
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Brewking white wine kits
Richard,
I don't know what happened with your fresh grape experiments, and I can only speak from one experience so far, but adding the pressed skins to the kit seemed to add nicely to the flavor profile, particularly by adding more tannic elements - this probably also means I'll need to age it longer before it's drinkable. I can't say that it did anything for the color since the kit juice was already quite dark. Also, when topping up I never use water - I always use a similar style commercial wine or other wine that I've made and have on hand. Your description of the Cellar Craft kit and the "crushed grape pack" sound good - if I can get my hands on one I'll give it a try. I don't have a local source for them - can you tell me where you've gotten yours? Thanks, Ed "Richard Kovach" > wrote in message om... > Hey Ed, > > I've thought of that, saving the skins. I think I have some in the > freezer. I'm a bit wary though, partly because of an experiment that > I did this last year that yielded completely unexpected and > undesirable results: > |
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