I have a dandelion wine which wouldn't clear, so I have added some
bentonite, and I've been watching the wine clear. It's been about 10 days.
Since this was the first time I used bentonite to clear a wine, I was
wondering what experiences others have had with it. Will it clear more if I
wait longer or not? I'm happy with how much it has cleared considering how
cloudy it was. I wouldn't say the wine is crystal clear, but I've read the
info on Jack's site, and I really don't want to overdue it. Thanks in
advance.
Darlene

Darlene,
I use Bentonite regularly for my grape wines especially the whites. The
reason I use it is for Protein stability, or "hot" stability. Simply stated
it means that a sudden protein haze wont form at warmer temperatures.
Bentonite is also a clarifying agent, but in my opinion there are a lot
better products out there if clarity is the goal of the fining. I have no
experience with dandelion, so I wont give you any suggestions as to what to
use without bench trials. I usually cold stabilize my wines by bring them
outside after I have fined with the bentonite for about 2 weeks. This
accomplishes a couple things: it limits handling by eliminating a racking,
and it has the benefit of the tatrate crystals "holding down" the bentonite
to allow better racking as the bentonite is quite fine and fluffy. HTH
John Dixon
"Dar V" > wrote in message
...
> I have a dandelion wine which wouldn't clear, so I have added some
> bentonite, and I've been watching the wine clear. It's been about 10
days.
> Since this was the first time I used bentonite to clear a wine, I was
> wondering what experiences others have had with it. Will it clear more if
I
> wait longer or not? I'm happy with how much it has cleared considering
how
> cloudy it was. I wouldn't say the wine is crystal clear, but I've read
the
> info on Jack's site, and I really don't want to overdue it. Thanks in
> advance.
> Darlene
>
>

John,
I'm game for anything at this point. Let me see if I understand you
correctly...you add bentonite, wait the proper time amount, then cold
stabilize to damp down the bentonite, and then rack.
Darlene

"J Dixon" > wrote in message
. ..
> Darlene,
> I use Bentonite regularly for my grape wines especially the whites.
The
> reason I use it is for Protein stability, or "hot" stability. Simply
stated
> it means that a sudden protein haze wont form at warmer temperatures.
> Bentonite is also a clarifying agent, but in my opinion there are a lot
> better products out there if clarity is the goal of the fining. I have no
> experience with dandelion, so I wont give you any suggestions as to what
to
> use without bench trials. I usually cold stabilize my wines by bring them
> outside after I have fined with the bentonite for about 2 weeks. This
> accomplishes a couple things: it limits handling by eliminating a racking,
> and it has the benefit of the tatrate crystals "holding down" the
bentonite
> to allow better racking as the bentonite is quite fine and fluffy. HTH
> John Dixon
> "Dar V" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I have a dandelion wine which wouldn't clear, so I have added some
> > bentonite, and I've been watching the wine clear. It's been about 10
> days.
> > Since this was the first time I used bentonite to clear a wine, I was
> > wondering what experiences others have had with it. Will it clear more
if
> I
> > wait longer or not? I'm happy with how much it has cleared considering
> how
> > cloudy it was. I wouldn't say the wine is crystal clear, but I've read
> the
> > info on Jack's site, and I really don't want to overdue it. Thanks in
> > advance.
> > Darlene
> >
> >
>
>

Darlene,
That is the basic concept with one major point to make... The wine has
to have Tatrate Crystals in order to form a crust on the Bentonite. There
usually is enough of them in most any grape wine, but I dont know anything
about Dandelion, but my first guess is that it does not contain them, and
this would be a waste of time. The point I was making was more about using
Bentonite for Protein stability or hazes versus as specifically a clarifying
agent, which there are better products out there for that purpose. Make
sense?
John Dixon
"Dar V" > wrote in message
...
> John,
> I'm game for anything at this point. Let me see if I understand you
> correctly...you add bentonite, wait the proper time amount, then cold
> stabilize to damp down the bentonite, and then rack.
> Darlene
>
> "J Dixon" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Darlene,
> > I use Bentonite regularly for my grape wines especially the whites.
> The
> > reason I use it is for Protein stability, or "hot" stability. Simply
> stated
> > it means that a sudden protein haze wont form at warmer temperatures.
> > Bentonite is also a clarifying agent, but in my opinion there are a lot
> > better products out there if clarity is the goal of the fining. I have
no
> > experience with dandelion, so I wont give you any suggestions as to what
> to
> > use without bench trials. I usually cold stabilize my wines by bring
them
> > outside after I have fined with the bentonite for about 2 weeks. This
> > accomplishes a couple things: it limits handling by eliminating a
racking,
> > and it has the benefit of the tatrate crystals "holding down" the
> bentonite
> > to allow better racking as the bentonite is quite fine and fluffy. HTH
> > John Dixon
> > "Dar V" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I have a dandelion wine which wouldn't clear, so I have added some
> > > bentonite, and I've been watching the wine clear. It's been about 10
> > days.
> > > Since this was the first time I used bentonite to clear a wine, I was
> > > wondering what experiences others have had with it. Will it clear
more
> if
> > I
> > > wait longer or not? I'm happy with how much it has cleared
considering
> > how
> > > cloudy it was. I wouldn't say the wine is crystal clear, but I've
read
> > the
> > > info on Jack's site, and I really don't want to overdue it. Thanks in
> > > advance.
> > > Darlene
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

What is a better clarifying agent than Bentonite? Especially for
fruit/flower wines?

Later,
A.J.

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 16:19:23 GMT, "J Dixon"
> wrote:

>Darlene,
> That is the basic concept with one major point to make... The wine has
>to have Tatrate Crystals in order to form a crust on the Bentonite. There
>usually is enough of them in most any grape wine, but I dont know anything
>about Dandelion, but my first guess is that it does not contain them, and
>this would be a waste of time. The point I was making was more about using
>Bentonite for Protein stability or hazes versus as specifically a clarifying
>agent, which there are better products out there for that purpose. Make
>sense?
>John Dixon
>"Dar V" > wrote in message
...
>> John,
>> I'm game for anything at this point. Let me see if I understand you
>> correctly...you add bentonite, wait the proper time amount, then cold
>> stabilize to damp down the bentonite, and then rack.
>> Darlene
>>
>> "J Dixon" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>> > Darlene,
>> > I use Bentonite regularly for my grape wines especially the whites.
>> The
>> > reason I use it is for Protein stability, or "hot" stability. Simply
>> stated
>> > it means that a sudden protein haze wont form at warmer temperatures.
>> > Bentonite is also a clarifying agent, but in my opinion there are a lot
>> > better products out there if clarity is the goal of the fining. I have
>no
>> > experience with dandelion, so I wont give you any suggestions as to what
>> to
>> > use without bench trials. I usually cold stabilize my wines by bring
>them
>> > outside after I have fined with the bentonite for about 2 weeks. This
>> > accomplishes a couple things: it limits handling by eliminating a
>racking,
>> > and it has the benefit of the tatrate crystals "holding down" the
>> bentonite
>> > to allow better racking as the bentonite is quite fine and fluffy. HTH
>> > John Dixon
>> > "Dar V" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > > I have a dandelion wine which wouldn't clear, so I have added some
>> > > bentonite, and I've been watching the wine clear. It's been about 10
>> > days.
>> > > Since this was the first time I used bentonite to clear a wine, I was
>> > > wondering what experiences others have had with it. Will it clear
>more
>> if
>> > I
>> > > wait longer or not? I'm happy with how much it has cleared
>considering
>> > how
>> > > cloudy it was. I wouldn't say the wine is crystal clear, but I've
>read
>> > the
>> > > info on Jack's site, and I really don't want to overdue it. Thanks in
>> > > advance.
>> > > Darlene
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>

A.J.
I cant give you a specific answer because it really depends on what is
causing the clarity problem. The majority of fruit wines that I have made
did not require any fining for clarity. The most common problem I have seen
with fruit wines are Pectin hazes. These can normally be prevented by the
addition of Pectin Enzyme right from the beginning of fermentation. Pectin
Enzyme seems to work a lot better if you use it right from the beginnning. I
am not sure of all of the reasons why, but I think a lot of it has to do
with the increased temperature of an active ferment as Pectin Enzyme is more
effective at warmer temperatures. The addition of Tannin also aids
clarification as well as giving the wine a more "grape like" consistency and
improving the mouth feel which I like. (more a stylistic thing). By using
the Pectin Enzyme, and Tannin I have only had a couple of fruit wines that
would not fall bright on their own. I tried bench trials with Polyclar,
Sparkalloid, and Bentonite (in case it was a protein haze). I found the
Sparkalloid to do the best job, and not strip the wine out. In Greater
amounts Bentonite did strip some of the flavor from the wine. A normal
dosage I use of Bentonite is in the area of 1.5-2 grams per US Gallon, and
I try to limit it to no more than 4 grams per gallon. I have also used
Gelatin counter fined with Kieselsol with success, but Gelatin also has
stripping qualities so you have to be careful and I would recommend bench
trials with it especially to make sure you like the results. So in summary I
like Sparkalloid the most of the fining agents that I have used, but that is
just what has worked for me and I haven't had many problems with my fruit
wines. HTH
John Dixon
"A.J. Rawls" > wrote in message
...
> What is a better clarifying agent than Bentonite? Especially for
> fruit/flower wines?
>
> Later,
> A.J.
>
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 16:19:23 GMT, "J Dixon"
> > wrote:
>
> >Darlene,
> > That is the basic concept with one major point to make... The wine
has
> >to have Tatrate Crystals in order to form a crust on the Bentonite. There
> >usually is enough of them in most any grape wine, but I dont know
anything
> >about Dandelion, but my first guess is that it does not contain them, and
> >this would be a waste of time. The point I was making was more about
using
> >Bentonite for Protein stability or hazes versus as specifically a
clarifying
> >agent, which there are better products out there for that purpose. Make
> >sense?
> >John Dixon
> >"Dar V" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> John,
> >> I'm game for anything at this point. Let me see if I understand you
> >> correctly...you add bentonite, wait the proper time amount, then cold
> >> stabilize to damp down the bentonite, and then rack.
> >> Darlene
> >>
> >> "J Dixon" > wrote in message
> >> . ..
> >> > Darlene,
> >> > I use Bentonite regularly for my grape wines especially the
whites.
> >> The
> >> > reason I use it is for Protein stability, or "hot" stability. Simply
> >> stated
> >> > it means that a sudden protein haze wont form at warmer temperatures.
> >> > Bentonite is also a clarifying agent, but in my opinion there are a
lot
> >> > better products out there if clarity is the goal of the fining. I
have
> >no
> >> > experience with dandelion, so I wont give you any suggestions as to
what
> >> to
> >> > use without bench trials. I usually cold stabilize my wines by bring
> >them
> >> > outside after I have fined with the bentonite for about 2 weeks. This
> >> > accomplishes a couple things: it limits handling by eliminating a
> >racking,
> >> > and it has the benefit of the tatrate crystals "holding down" the
> >> bentonite
> >> > to allow better racking as the bentonite is quite fine and fluffy.
HTH
> >> > John Dixon
> >> > "Dar V" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> > > I have a dandelion wine which wouldn't clear, so I have added some
> >> > > bentonite, and I've been watching the wine clear. It's been about
10
> >> > days.
> >> > > Since this was the first time I used bentonite to clear a wine, I
was
> >> > > wondering what experiences others have had with it. Will it clear
> >more
> >> if
> >> > I
> >> > > wait longer or not? I'm happy with how much it has cleared
> >considering
> >> > how
> >> > > cloudy it was. I wouldn't say the wine is crystal clear, but I've
> >read
> >> > the
> >> > > info on Jack's site, and I really don't want to overdue it. Thanks
in
> >> > > advance.
> >> > > Darlene
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
>

John,
Good point, it probably doesn't contain tartaric crystals. But I was
thinking though that cold stabilization might be another way to help clear
the wine, once the Bentonite has done its job. I've read through Jack's
site on clearing wines, and using bentonite (for clearing purposes) seemed
the most benign and the easiest method. I understand where you're coming
from though. Thank you.
Darlene

"J Dixon" > wrote in message
...
> Darlene,
> That is the basic concept with one major point to make... The wine
has
> to have Tatrate Crystals in order to form a crust on the Bentonite. There
> usually is enough of them in most any grape wine, but I dont know anything
> about Dandelion, but my first guess is that it does not contain them, and
> this would be a waste of time. The point I was making was more about using
> Bentonite for Protein stability or hazes versus as specifically a
clarifying
> agent, which there are better products out there for that purpose. Make
> sense?
> John Dixon
> "Dar V" > wrote in message
> ...
> > John,
> > I'm game for anything at this point. Let me see if I understand you
> > correctly...you add bentonite, wait the proper time amount, then cold
> > stabilize to damp down the bentonite, and then rack.
> > Darlene
> >
> > "J Dixon" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> > > Darlene,
> > > I use Bentonite regularly for my grape wines especially the
whites.
> > The
> > > reason I use it is for Protein stability, or "hot" stability. Simply
> > stated
> > > it means that a sudden protein haze wont form at warmer temperatures.
> > > Bentonite is also a clarifying agent, but in my opinion there are a
lot
> > > better products out there if clarity is the goal of the fining. I have
> no
> > > experience with dandelion, so I wont give you any suggestions as to
what
> > to
> > > use without bench trials. I usually cold stabilize my wines by bring
> them
> > > outside after I have fined with the bentonite for about 2 weeks. This
> > > accomplishes a couple things: it limits handling by eliminating a
> racking,
> > > and it has the benefit of the tatrate crystals "holding down" the
> > bentonite
> > > to allow better racking as the bentonite is quite fine and fluffy. HTH
> > > John Dixon
> > > "Dar V" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > I have a dandelion wine which wouldn't clear, so I have added some
> > > > bentonite, and I've been watching the wine clear. It's been about
10
> > > days.
> > > > Since this was the first time I used bentonite to clear a wine, I
was
> > > > wondering what experiences others have had with it. Will it clear
> more
> > if
> > > I
> > > > wait longer or not? I'm happy with how much it has cleared
> considering
> > > how
> > > > cloudy it was. I wouldn't say the wine is crystal clear, but I've
> read
> > > the
> > > > info on Jack's site, and I really don't want to overdue it. Thanks
in
> > > > advance.
> > > > Darlene
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

I think John's educated guess is right on concerning the unlikelihood of
tartrate precipitate in dandelion wine. It is my understanding that
grapes are quite unique in containing significant amounts of tartaric acid.

Glen Duff
---------------

Dar V wrote:

> John,
> Good point, it probably doesn't contain tartaric crystals. But I was
> thinking though that cold stabilization might be another way to help clear
> the wine, once the Bentonite has done its job. I've read through Jack's
> site on clearing wines, and using bentonite (for clearing purposes) seemed
> the most benign and the easiest method. I understand where you're coming
> from though. Thank you.
> Darlene
>
> "J Dixon" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Darlene,
>> That is the basic concept with one major point to make... The wine
>>
> has
>
>>to have Tatrate Crystals in order to form a crust on the Bentonite. There
>>usually is enough of them in most any grape wine, but I dont know anything
>>about Dandelion, but my first guess is that it does not contain them, and
>>this would be a waste of time. The point I was making was more about using
>>Bentonite for Protein stability or hazes versus as specifically a
>>
> clarifying
>
>>agent, which there are better products out there for that purpose. Make
>>sense?
>>John Dixon
>>"Dar V" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>John,
>>>I'm game for anything at this point. Let me see if I understand you
>>>correctly...you add bentonite, wait the proper time amount, then cold
>>>stabilize to damp down the bentonite, and then rack.
>>>Darlene
>>>
>>>"J Dixon" > wrote in message
et...
>>>
>>>>Darlene,
>>>> I use Bentonite regularly for my grape wines especially the
>>>>
> whites.
>
>>>The
>>>
>>>>reason I use it is for Protein stability, or "hot" stability. Simply
>>>>
>>>stated
>>>
>>>>it means that a sudden protein haze wont form at warmer temperatures.
>>>>Bentonite is also a clarifying agent, but in my opinion there are a
>>>>
> lot
>
>>>>better products out there if clarity is the goal of the fining. I have
>>>>
>>no
>>
>>>>experience with dandelion, so I wont give you any suggestions as to
>>>>
> what
>
>>>to
>>>
>>>>use without bench trials. I usually cold stabilize my wines by bring
>>>>
>>them
>>
>>>>outside after I have fined with the bentonite for about 2 weeks. This
>>>>accomplishes a couple things: it limits handling by eliminating a
>>>>
>>racking,
>>
>>>>and it has the benefit of the tatrate crystals "holding down" the
>>>>
>>>bentonite
>>>
>>>>to allow better racking as the bentonite is quite fine and fluffy. HTH
>>>>John Dixon
>>>>"Dar V" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>>I have a dandelion wine which wouldn't clear, so I have added some
>>>>>bentonite, and I've been watching the wine clear. It's been about
>>>>>
> 10
>
>>>>days.
>>>>
>>>>>Since this was the first time I used bentonite to clear a wine, I
>>>>>
> was
>
>>>>>wondering what experiences others have had with it. Will it clear
>>>>>
>>more
>>
>>>if
>>>
>>>>I
>>>>
>>>>>wait longer or not? I'm happy with how much it has cleared
>>>>>
>>considering
>>
>>>>how
>>>>
>>>>>cloudy it was. I wouldn't say the wine is crystal clear, but I've
>>>>>
>>read
>>
>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>>info on Jack's site, and I really don't want to overdue it. Thanks
>>>>>
> in
>
>>>>>advance.
>>>>>Darlene
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

darlene, i have a question for you, i hope you dont mind. i am fairly new at
this home winemaking business...last year when i made some concord wine, i
ended up with a ton of sediment after bottling that i was told was the tartaric
acid problem. so after a little research i was told about the cold
stabilization...keep in mind i never used a clearing agent with my first batch
of that concord. so anyhow, now i have 4 batches of various juices which i
began in septmeber, i had my husband bring them all out in the garage yesterday
for the cold stabilization. i do want to use a clarifying agent with these and
i assumed i was supposed to do that before bottling but you add your before
cold stabilizing?? will thia make a differance for me? also, we are in pretty
cold weather here(buffalo) i am terrified my carboys will crack! is this safe?
thanks a bunch, marlene

First, I would read what others had to say in response to "will my carboys
break?" I live in Wisconsin and I would not put one of my carboys out in
the garage in January for cold stabilization. It might be in the 40's today
but by Monday, they are saying we're in for a cold snap (high might be 15),
low in the single digits. I've tried cooling my wines down by finding the
coldest part of my basement - sometimes all it takes is a drop of 10 degrees
or more to get more sediment to drop. You talked about sediment in your
wine bottles. If I might ask, how old was your wine when you bottled it?
and how many times did you rack it before you bottled it?

I tried cold stabilization with my dandelion wine to get it to clear, but
that was in November, and it did clear a bit. Then, I brought it back in
and racked it. I waited until it warmed up and then fined with bentonite.
After about 3 weeks of clearing, I racked off the bentonite lees. Then I
stabilized, sweetened, waited 10 days for more sediment to drop, and then
bottled.
Darlene

"MOhar871" > wrote in message
...
> darlene, i have a question for you, i hope you dont mind. i am fairly new
at
> this home winemaking business...last year when i made some concord wine, i
> ended up with a ton of sediment after bottling that i was told was the
tartaric
> acid problem. so after a little research i was told about the cold
> stabilization...keep in mind i never used a clearing agent with my first
batch
> of that concord. so anyhow, now i have 4 batches of various juices which i
> began in septmeber, i had my husband bring them all out in the garage
yesterday
> for the cold stabilization. i do want to use a clarifying agent with these
and
> i assumed i was supposed to do that before bottling but you add your
before
> cold stabilizing?? will thia make a differance for me? also, we are in
pretty
> cold weather here(buffalo) i am terrified my carboys will crack! is this
safe?
> thanks a bunch, marlene

Hi Darlene:

I fined my Dandelion with Bentonite the last couple of years... Give
it a couple of weeks then shine a "GOOD" flashlight thru it and look
for suspended particles. It is clear when you don't see suspended
particles.

Later,
A.J.
Anchorage, Alaska, USA

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:00:34 GMT, "Dar V" > wrote:

>I have a dandelion wine which wouldn't clear, so I have added some
>bentonite, and I've been watching the wine clear. It's been about 10 days.
>Since this was the first time I used bentonite to clear a wine, I was
>wondering what experiences others have had with it. Will it clear more if I
>wait longer or not? I'm happy with how much it has cleared considering how
>cloudy it was. I wouldn't say the wine is crystal clear, but I've read the
>info on Jack's site, and I really don't want to overdue it. Thanks in
>advance.
>Darlene
>

Thanks A.J., I'll give it a few more days.
Darlene

"A.J. Rawls" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Darlene:
>
> I fined my Dandelion with Bentonite the last couple of years... Give
> it a couple of weeks then shine a "GOOD" flashlight thru it and look
> for suspended particles. It is clear when you don't see suspended
> particles.
>
> Later,
> A.J.
> Anchorage, Alaska, USA
>
> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:00:34 GMT, "Dar V" > wrote:
>
> >I have a dandelion wine which wouldn't clear, so I have added some
> >bentonite, and I've been watching the wine clear. It's been about 10
days.
> >Since this was the first time I used bentonite to clear a wine, I was
> >wondering what experiences others have had with it. Will it clear more
if I
> >wait longer or not? I'm happy with how much it has cleared considering
how
> >cloudy it was. I wouldn't say the wine is crystal clear, but I've read
the
> >info on Jack's site, and I really don't want to overdue it. Thanks in
> >advance.
> >Darlene
> >
>