Winemaking (rec.crafts.winemaking) Discussion of the process, recipes, tips, techniques and general exchange of lore on the process, methods and history of wine making. Includes traditional grape wines, sparkling wines & champagnes.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Drunken Observer
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bentonite


Hail all,

I would like your comments on the use of bentonite.

I read somewhere that it can grab as much as 1/5 of the flavor.

Should we use it at all?
At what stage should we use it?
Any other opinions on other fining agents?

I don't sell my wine and don't mind not crystal clear if I can
get a better tasting product.

Happy drinking!
  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dar V
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hello,
I use bentonite to clear a wine as a last resort, which hasn't been all that
many times. I will leave others to talk about their experiences and whether
they feel the taste of the wine is affected. Most of the time, my wines
clear of their own accord by letting them sit long enough, racking them
another time, or cold stabilization. It all depends, I guess, on what
expectations you have about your wine and what it looks like. Others have
heard this story - my expectations of my wine is that it be clear with a
dusting of sediment (if at all) in my bottles. My brother sent me some of
his wine - it tasted fine. But, the wine was cloudy and there was about a
1/2 inch of sediment in the bottom of his bottle. It didn't bother him, but
I wouldn't send a gift of wine which looked like that.... It all depends.
Darlene ;o)

"Drunken Observer" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hail all,
>
> I would like your comments on the use of bentonite.
>
> I read somewhere that it can grab as much as 1/5 of the flavor.
>
> Should we use it at all?
> At what stage should we use it?
> Any other opinions on other fining agents?
>
> I don't sell my wine and don't mind not crystal clear if I can
> get a better tasting product.
>
> Happy drinking!



  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
RD
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I've never seen a quantitative value placed on the flavor stripping
capacity of bentonite. Perhaps others could comment on this. Though
it seems reasonable that this would be proportional to the
concentration at which it is used.

Usually, the primary goal of fining wine is to improve taste with the
added benefit that it can improve clarity as well. As a rule, I do not
fine my red wines. I find that time is the best fining agent. After a
year or so red wines are usually very clear - especially if it's had
time in oak casks. For whites, I often do a light bentonite fining
after primary fermentation has ceased. As I have been reminded by
folks on this newsgroup, let your taste be your guide.....and have
patience.

RD

Drunken Observer wrote:
> Hail all,
>
> I would like your comments on the use of bentonite.
>
> I read somewhere that it can grab as much as 1/5 of the flavor.
>
> Should we use it at all?
> At what stage should we use it?
> Any other opinions on other fining agents?
>
> I don't sell my wine and don't mind not crystal clear if I can
> get a better tasting product.
>
> Happy drinking!


  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
RD
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I've never seen a quantitative value placed on the flavor stripping
capacity of bentonite. Perhaps others could comment on this. Though
it seems reasonable that this would be proportional to the
concentration at which it is used.

Usually, the primary goal of fining wine is to improve taste with the
added benefit that it can improve clarity as well. As a rule, I do not
fine my red wines. I find that time is the best fining agent. After a
year or so red wines are usually very clear - especially if it's had
time in oak casks. For whites, I often do a light bentonite fining
after primary fermentation has ceased. As I have been reminded by
folks on this newsgroup, let your taste be your guide.....and have
patience.

RD

Drunken Observer wrote:
> Hail all,
>
> I would like your comments on the use of bentonite.
>
> I read somewhere that it can grab as much as 1/5 of the flavor.
>
> Should we use it at all?
> At what stage should we use it?
> Any other opinions on other fining agents?
>
> I don't sell my wine and don't mind not crystal clear if I can
> get a better tasting product.
>
> Happy drinking!


  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
jeff
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I tend to avoid bentonite period, unless kits provide it. Usually in those
cases, bentonite is added to the must at fermentation time. I assume this
holds it together and keeps the vigor from going overboard. I've avoided
using bentonite with kits at fermentation and sure enough the foam was
excessive.

When I ferment from fresh grapes I prefer to use nothing and let it settle
ut over time, and racking.

If you can get away from using any fining agent at all, and allow solids to
settle out naturally over time, then rack off sediment, that is your best
bet. Your bottled wine will still throw sediment over time, but you will
notice an improvement in body, and flavor.

If you prefer not to wait for natural clarification, you have no choice but
to filter or use something to fine. Or deal with heavier sediment in the
bottle.

Regards
Jeff

"Drunken Observer" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hail all,
>
> I would like your comments on the use of bentonite.
>
> I read somewhere that it can grab as much as 1/5 of the flavor.
>
> Should we use it at all?
> At what stage should we use it?
> Any other opinions on other fining agents?
>
> I don't sell my wine and don't mind not crystal clear if I can
> get a better tasting product.
>
> Happy drinking!





  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Lum
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Drunken Observer" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hail all,
>
> I would like your comments on the use of bentonite.
>
> I read somewhere that it can grab as much as 1/5 of the flavor.
>
> Should we use it at all?
> At what stage should we use it?
> Any other opinions on other fining agents?
>
> I don't sell my wine and don't mind not crystal clear if I can
> get a better tasting product.
>
> Happy drinking!



D.O.

Bentonite is primary used to remove excess protein from white and blush
wines made from grapes. Grapes contain small quantities of protein, and the
protein is carried over from the grapes into the wine during fermentation.
Originally, the protein molecules are much too small to be visible in the
wine. However, under certain conditions protein molecules link together
(polymerize) and grow larger. After many protein molecules have linked
together, the protein particles are large enough to be visible, and the
particles are too large to remain suspended in the wine. This growth
process is very slow at normal cellar temperatures, but when wine becomes
warm, the protein molecules grow more rapidly. At temperatures of about 120
degrees, protein molecules can link together and form large particles in a
short time.

Winemakers call protein hazes "hot instability" because warm storage
conditions trigger the phenomena. Leaving a bottle of Sauvignon Blanc in a
car trunk on a hot summer day can produce a graphic demonstration of hot
instability. When white or blush wines are subjected to warm storage
conditions, protein hazes can form quickly, so all commercial white and
blush wines are specifically treated to remove the excess protein before
bottling.

Excess protein seldom causes stability problems in red wine. Red wines
contain phenolic compounds that react with the protein during primary
fermentation, and the excess protein precipitates out of the wine. White
and blush wines contain very little phenolic materials, so the winemaker
must use a special treatment to remove the excess protein from these wines.

Bentonite is a very fine, clay-like material. It has a negative electrical
charge, and it is commonly used by commercial wineries to remove excess
protein from both white and blush wines. Occasionally, it is used for
clarification fining of white and blush wines, and sometimes bentonite is
effective in clearing hazy fruit wines. It is often used at dose levels
ranging from 0.5 to 4 grams per gallon, but a normal dose is 1 to 2 grams of
dry bentonite per gallon of wine. Bentonite can strip desirable aromas from
wine when used in excessive amounts (more than 2 grams per gallon), so bench
testing should _always_ be done.

Bentonite should be mixed with water and allowed to stand for twenty-four
hours before being adding to the wine. Bentonite can be mixed easily in a
blender. Put the required amount of hot water in the blender, turn the
blender on, and slowly add the dry powder. When the mixture is cool, place
it in a refrigerator and allow the bentonite mixture to hydrate for at least
24 hours. Add the hydrated mixture to the wine slowly and stir
continuously.

Lum
Del Mar, California, USA



  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
William Frazier
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Drunken Observer wrote >"I would like your comments on the use of bentonite.
I read somewhere that it can grab as much as 1/5 of the flavor. Should we
use it at all? At what stage should we use it? Any other opinions on other
fining agents? I don't sell my wine and don't mind not crystal clear if I
can get a better tasting product."

DO - For white wines I treat with bentonite when fermentation is complete.
When very young some of these wines have a harshness. The bentonite fining
seems to help smooth the flavor of these wines. I follow bentonite with
cold stabilization at near freezing temperatures. This helps compact the
sediment from the bentonite fining. After racking I treat with PVPP
(Polyclar). I believe this helps keep white wines light in color. Both of
these fining treatments yield a better looking and better tasting finished
wine IMO.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA


  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Angel
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Lum wrote:
> "Drunken Observer" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Hail all,
>>
>>I would like your comments on the use of bentonite.
>>
>>I read somewhere that it can grab as much as 1/5 of the flavor.
>>
>>Should we use it at all?
>>At what stage should we use it?
>>Any other opinions on other fining agents?
>>
>>I don't sell my wine and don't mind not crystal clear if I can
>>get a better tasting product.
>>
>>Happy drinking!

>
>
>
> D.O.
>
> Bentonite is primary used to remove excess protein from white and blush
> wines made from grapes. Grapes contain small quantities of protein, and the
> protein is carried over from the grapes into the wine during fermentation.
> Originally, the protein molecules are much too small to be visible in the
> wine. However, under certain conditions protein molecules link together
> (polymerize) and grow larger. After many protein molecules have linked
> together, the protein particles are large enough to be visible, and the
> particles are too large to remain suspended in the wine. This growth
> process is very slow at normal cellar temperatures, but when wine becomes
> warm, the protein molecules grow more rapidly. At temperatures of about 120
> degrees, protein molecules can link together and form large particles in a
> short time.
>
> Winemakers call protein hazes "hot instability" because warm storage
> conditions trigger the phenomena. Leaving a bottle of Sauvignon Blanc in a
> car trunk on a hot summer day can produce a graphic demonstration of hot
> instability. When white or blush wines are subjected to warm storage
> conditions, protein hazes can form quickly, so all commercial white and
> blush wines are specifically treated to remove the excess protein before
> bottling.
>
> Excess protein seldom causes stability problems in red wine. Red wines
> contain phenolic compounds that react with the protein during primary
> fermentation, and the excess protein precipitates out of the wine. White
> and blush wines contain very little phenolic materials, so the winemaker
> must use a special treatment to remove the excess protein from these wines.
>
> Bentonite is a very fine, clay-like material. It has a negative electrical
> charge, and it is commonly used by commercial wineries to remove excess
> protein from both white and blush wines. Occasionally, it is used for
> clarification fining of white and blush wines, and sometimes bentonite is
> effective in clearing hazy fruit wines. It is often used at dose levels
> ranging from 0.5 to 4 grams per gallon, but a normal dose is 1 to 2 grams of
> dry bentonite per gallon of wine. Bentonite can strip desirable aromas from
> wine when used in excessive amounts (more than 2 grams per gallon), so bench
> testing should _always_ be done.
>
> Bentonite should be mixed with water and allowed to stand for twenty-four
> hours before being adding to the wine. Bentonite can be mixed easily in a
> blender. Put the required amount of hot water in the blender, turn the
> blender on, and slowly add the dry powder. When the mixture is cool, place
> it in a refrigerator and allow the bentonite mixture to hydrate for at least
> 24 hours. Add the hydrated mixture to the wine slowly and stir
> continuously.
>
> Lum
> Del Mar, California, USA
>
>
>


Thanks for the clear and enligthening info!

:-)

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bentonite Tom[_1_] Winemaking 1 10-05-2008 06:18 AM
Bentonite Question Crhoff Winemaking 6 17-01-2006 06:56 PM
Dissolving bentonite Adam Preble Winemaking 6 13-10-2005 05:18 AM
Bentonite Juwanna Winemaking 9 10-04-2004 10:43 AM
bentonite Dar V Winemaking 12 02-01-2004 07:28 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:38 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 FoodBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Food and drink"