OK, I'm getting really confused. As a first time country wine maker, I've
currently got 20 demijohns of various concoctions sitting around the place.
Some have been going since August, and all signs of fermentation seem to
have stopped. Now, I read that I should leave the wine to mature in the
demijohn for at least 6 months before bottling. Trouble is, many of my
demijohns are plastic, not glass (and I can't find anywhere local to buy
more glass ones - postage costs from further afield would be prohibitive),
and now I read that I shouldn't leave the wines in them for more than a
month. So what to do? Should I just bung some fermentation stopper in those
which have stopped showing signs of active fermentation, and bottle them? Or
would I be better off leaving them in the plastic containers for a while
longer? Or should I forget about the fermentation stopper, and bottle them
as they are (unless of course, they're still fizzing!)?

The wines I'm talking about are those which are tasting as though they've
finished - they're pretty dry (and rough!) in most cases, and I'm hoping
some aging will improve their flavours (not that they're bad now, just I
think they could be better!).

I'm no perfectionist, I just want to know if bottling now would be
premature - I certainly don't want anything exploding on me! All I ask is
that I end up with something alcoholic that doesn't take the back of your
throat out when you drink it. I'm sure I'll become more 'fussy' in future
years, but right now I could do with some very basic advice!

Many thanks!

Jo



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.537 / Virus Database: 332 - Release Date: 06/11/03

Bottling now will be a mistake.

It really depends on the quality of the "plastic" containers ( and to a
certain extent ,size ---- 1 gallon or 5 gallon? ) but provided you take a
few basic precautions then all should be reasonably well. As a first time
vintner you will enjoy the end product I am sure. I will try to be brief.
1. It is important to rack into a clean sanitised demijohn when fermentation
is complete. Assuming you are in 1 gallon sized containers, crush a single
campden tablet and dissolve in a little of the wine. Add it to the clean
container and siphon the wine from the old to the new. Take care to leave
behind the less ( rubbish at the bottom ) in the old demijohn .
2. Since you are not going to age it for too long it is a good idea at this
stage to degas the wine. either by shaking it with you hand firmly over the
open bottle or by using some sort of stirrer. This will help in the clearing
of the wine. Degassing will occur naturally over a long time but you aint
got that much time!.
2. It is important at this stage to ensure the new container is as full as
possible -- i.e. right to the neck of the new container --I normally top up
with some of last years wine but you can add sanitised marbles or cool
boiled water.Wine is best but you might not have any. You can use some
similar commercial "real" wine - I do frequently.
3. Cap off with an fermentation lock
4. Move to a cool storage area. Now since you are using some indeterminate
plastic containers it is important that your storage are be as clean and
free from "contaminating" substances like household cleaning material,
kerosene, weed killer etc -- so your garden shed/garage is not an ideal
place. Allow space around each separate demijohn and don't crowd them all
together. Plastic is semi permeable and has a sort of osmosis effect where
its contents may pick up off flavours from its surrounds.
5. Now 6 months is fine but you can bottle before that time. Just keep an
occasional eye on your new offspring and sooner than you think you will find
that each jar now contains a crystal clear liquid that is just asking to be
sampled. You can then bottle. The try and keep your fingers of it for as
long as possible!
6. If this is your first season with country wine you will not want to wait
any long before drinking some but most of my country wines are 2 years old
before I savour them. That wasn't the case many years ago when I tried my
early efforts at week 8! ( or was it week 4).
7. You will hear and read of many pitfalls --- but in fact wine is very
robust and quite forgiving and I bet yours will be more than OK.

It is a very good idea to read about it. Terry Gareys "Home Winemaking" is
good and designed for the US market. Jack Kellers website is overflowing
with information and essential reading.

No heresies in the above that I can see. Good drinking.

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "SPAMLESS" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!
"Darkginger" > wrote in message
...
> OK, I'm getting really confused. As a first time country wine maker, I've
> currently got 20 demijohns of various concoctions sitting around the
place.
> Some have been going since August, and all signs of fermentation seem to
>
<snip> <snip>

Jo, while I prefer bulk aging to early bottling and then cellaring, I
can't say that the one is better than the other for country wines. It
does make a difference in grape, but, as I said, I can't say for sure
when it comes to fruit, vegetable, flower, root, and other non-grape
wines.

Please read my post on this date under "Glass vs Plastic." That said,
I will expand a bit on it.

If you are using those plastic demijohns made specifically for making
wine and beer, then I suspect you can age the wine in them for many
months. If you are using demijohns used for spring or distilled water
or for any other purpose, then you are possibly in a pickle and I
would err on the side of caution and bottle them. Just make sure (1)
the wines are stable, (2) they are clear, and (3) they have not
dropped any sediment (not even a very fine dusting of dead yeast)
within the past month. If any of the above have not been achieved,
then get busy and (a) rack and stabilize, (b)fine and rack, or (c)
simply rack. (a) applies to (1), (b) to (2) and (c) to (3) above.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

Something is wrong with my carrier and I can see two others have responded
to your post but I can not see their response. So I apologize if I repeat
them. I also apologize if I contradict them but then ...

Going since August indicates a pretty new wine for country wine. I would
not think it is ready for bottling. You are a new wine maker and you
already have 20 DJ's of wine sitting around. BOY you really got the bug
bad. That is probably your biggest problem. The hobby is growing faster
than you can maintain it. After a few years, one way or another you will
accumulate the bottles you need.

Now to some of your issues:

Do not bottle any wine that is still fizzing. This is to invite disaster in
the form of exploding bottles or at least a fizzy end product that was not
designed to be fizzy. (I really hate fizzy wine.)

Do not bottle any wine that is not crystal clear. It will throw sediment in
the bottle and this will give off-tastes during aging and will yield an
unappetizing looking wine when poured.

If you have to, go ahead and use the plastic bottles you are currently using
but plan to replace them with glass as soon as you can and at least before
your next batches. Do not plan to reuse them after this use.

Put the word out to your friends that you need glass gallon jugs and search
out any 5-6 gal glass carboys you can find. If you have friends who do
garage sales, sometimes you can get them there.

As far as the wines tasting rough -- they are VERY young. Many country
wines are down right awful for the first 6 months, year or even two. Then
all of a sudden they become glorious. But I would not leave them in plastic
for a year or two. I would rather bulk age but in your case, as soon as
they are stable and crystal clear I would suggest you bottle them.

Ray

"Darkginger" > wrote in message
...
> OK, I'm getting really confused. As a first time country wine maker, I've
> currently got 20 demijohns of various concoctions sitting around the
place.
> Some have been going since August, and all signs of fermentation seem to
> have stopped. Now, I read that I should leave the wine to mature in the
> demijohn for at least 6 months before bottling. Trouble is, many of my
> demijohns are plastic, not glass (and I can't find anywhere local to buy
> more glass ones - postage costs from further afield would be prohibitive),
> and now I read that I shouldn't leave the wines in them for more than a
> month. So what to do? Should I just bung some fermentation stopper in
those
> which have stopped showing signs of active fermentation, and bottle them?
Or
> would I be better off leaving them in the plastic containers for a while
> longer? Or should I forget about the fermentation stopper, and bottle them
> as they are (unless of course, they're still fizzing!)?
>
> The wines I'm talking about are those which are tasting as though they've
> finished - they're pretty dry (and rough!) in most cases, and I'm hoping
> some aging will improve their flavours (not that they're bad now, just I
> think they could be better!).
>
> I'm no perfectionist, I just want to know if bottling now would be
> premature - I certainly don't want anything exploding on me! All I ask is
> that I end up with something alcoholic that doesn't take the back of your
> throat out when you drink it. I'm sure I'll become more 'fussy' in future
> years, but right now I could do with some very basic advice!
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Jo
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.537 / Virus Database: 332 - Release Date: 06/11/03
>
>
>

Ray > wrote in message
igy.com...
> Something is wrong with my carrier and I can see two others have responded
> to your post but I can not see their response. So I apologize if I repeat
> them. I also apologize if I contradict them but then ...

Many thanks to you and the others who replied - although I'm not much less
confused, I think I've decided what I'm going to do now! I was particularly
concerned about the idea that plastic containers were 'smell permeable' as
right now, they're next to the kittens' litter tray (yuk!) - but I sampled
the rosehip (which was the closest to the smelly place) and it hasn't picked
up anything unpleasant! So - I'm going to bottle everything that is clear
and still, rack that which is still but not clear (with a view to fining if
they still don't clear - I think the plum, the pear and the parsnip are the
worst - must be something to do with 'P' ), and leave those which are
still active to complete their fermentation (luckily, most of those are now
in glass, as I rack from plastic to glass whenever possible).

Next question - best way to wash bottles? I've just been scrubbing 'em under
hot water to get the labels off, then giving them a good soak in ChemPro.
Takes forever though, and I'm getting a bit bored with it - especially when
I've calculated that I'll have to wash at least 120 bottles for all the wine
I've got going on! I don't have a dishwasher (well, I do, but it's still in
the shop - long story). Any suggestions?

By the way, I thought I'd see whether I could make wine from cartons of
grape juice (y'know, just the normal stuff for drinking) - was worried as to
whether there might be preservatives in there - but afer 2 days of sitting
there not doing a lot, the juice (to which I added some sugar and of course
yeast) went nuts and bubbled up through the airlock - 3 times! It's now
settled a bit, but is audibly hissing - looks like it's working alright! I
just love all this experimentation - and I have to say that I'm delighted
with the aforementioned rosehip (which is still a baby, of course) - even
though it's so young, it tastes like a decent dry white, with not a trace of
'cattiness' <g>.

Oh, and one last question - when I tried out my new vinometer on the chilli
wine - it came out with a reading of 22% - could this be right? I haven't
tested any of the others, but that seems a bit high for an ordinary yeast to
me. I have noticed that the home made stuff I've tried so far seems a lot
more effective (ie, I get tiddly!) than the average bought wine. Is this
normal?

Many thanks!

Jo (hic!)


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.537 / Virus Database: 332 - Release Date: 06/11/03

On 12/3/03 4:37 AM, in article ,
"Darkginger" > wrote:

> Next question - best way to wash bottles? I've just been scrubbing 'em under
> hot water to get the labels off, then giving them a good soak in ChemPro.
> Takes forever though, and I'm getting a bit bored with it - especially when
> I've calculated that I'll have to wash at least 120 bottles for all the wine
> I've got going on! I don't have a dishwasher (well, I do, but it's still in
> the shop - long story). Any suggestions?

I usually soak in a soap/bleach solution for a while, then peel the labels
off and clean the insides with a faucet jet bottle washer sprayer. I tend to
only use bottles that have easy to remove labels. I find most European wines
have labels that are easy to remove and most Australian and American wines
are almost permanently attached. If you have friends at a local restaurant
or bar, you could ask them to save you the French and Italian wine bottles.
But like you, I am getting tired of washing bottles. For the first time I
bought a couple cases of bottles. They were about 80 cents each, so not too
much. Much easier than trying to recycle.

>
> By the way, I thought I'd see whether I could make wine from cartons of
> grape juice (y'know, just the normal stuff for drinking) - was worried as to
> whether there might be preservatives in there - but afer 2 days of sitting
> there not doing a lot, the juice (to which I added some sugar and of course
> yeast) went nuts and bubbled up through the airlock - 3 times! It's now
> settled a bit, but is audibly hissing - looks like it's working alright! I
> just love all this experimentation - and I have to say that I'm delighted
> with the aforementioned rosehip (which is still a baby, of course) - even
> though it's so young, it tastes like a decent dry white, with not a trace of
> 'cattiness' <g>.

Sounds like it will be good.

>
> Oh, and one last question - when I tried out my new vinometer on the chilli
> wine - it came out with a reading of 22% - could this be right? I haven't
> tested any of the others, but that seems a bit high for an ordinary yeast to
> me. I have noticed that the home made stuff I've tried so far seems a lot
> more effective (ie, I get tiddly!) than the average bought wine. Is this
> normal?

I suspect your reading is not correct. 22% is awful high and even the so
called "Turbo" yeasts have difficulty achieving that level. A vinometer can
only be used on absolutely DRY wines. If you have any sugar left, the
reading will not be correct. Is your gravity below 0.995 ??

--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine

(remove spamblocker from my email)

Sometimes lately I have not been getting my point across as I intended.
Must be getting old or something. I was not referring to smells coming into
the wine from the outside. I was referring to the fact that plastic will
develop smells from the stuff that was IN them on first using them that is
difficult to remove. After storage, even if they were well washed, they
will often take on a rancid odor. But it probably is a good idea to move
the carboys away from any garbage or bad smells anyway.

On the grape juice, consider using Welch's frozen juices. Jack has some
good recipes. I am starting to use it to add body and vinuosity to fruit
wines.

22% is theoretically possible but I don't think I would accept it without
knowing the SG drop.

Ray


"Darkginger" > wrote in message
...
>
> Ray > wrote in message
> igy.com...
> > Something is wrong with my carrier and I can see two others have
responded
> > to your post but I can not see their response. So I apologize if I
repeat
> > them. I also apologize if I contradict them but then ...
>
> Many thanks to you and the others who replied - although I'm not much less
> confused, I think I've decided what I'm going to do now! I was
particularly
> concerned about the idea that plastic containers were 'smell permeable' as
> right now, they're next to the kittens' litter tray (yuk!) - but I sampled
> the rosehip (which was the closest to the smelly place) and it hasn't
picked
> up anything unpleasant! So - I'm going to bottle everything that is clear
> and still, rack that which is still but not clear (with a view to fining
if
> they still don't clear - I think the plum, the pear and the parsnip are
the
> worst - must be something to do with 'P' ), and leave those which are
> still active to complete their fermentation (luckily, most of those are
now
> in glass, as I rack from plastic to glass whenever possible).
>
> Next question - best way to wash bottles? I've just been scrubbing 'em
under
> hot water to get the labels off, then giving them a good soak in ChemPro.
> Takes forever though, and I'm getting a bit bored with it - especially
when
> I've calculated that I'll have to wash at least 120 bottles for all the
wine
> I've got going on! I don't have a dishwasher (well, I do, but it's still
in
> the shop - long story). Any suggestions?
>
> By the way, I thought I'd see whether I could make wine from cartons of
> grape juice (y'know, just the normal stuff for drinking) - was worried as
to
> whether there might be preservatives in there - but afer 2 days of sitting
> there not doing a lot, the juice (to which I added some sugar and of
course
> yeast) went nuts and bubbled up through the airlock - 3 times! It's now
> settled a bit, but is audibly hissing - looks like it's working alright! I
> just love all this experimentation - and I have to say that I'm delighted
> with the aforementioned rosehip (which is still a baby, of course) - even
> though it's so young, it tastes like a decent dry white, with not a trace
of
> 'cattiness' <g>.
>
> Oh, and one last question - when I tried out my new vinometer on the
chilli
> wine - it came out with a reading of 22% - could this be right? I haven't
> tested any of the others, but that seems a bit high for an ordinary yeast
to
> me. I have noticed that the home made stuff I've tried so far seems a lot
> more effective (ie, I get tiddly!) than the average bought wine. Is this
> normal?
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Jo (hic!)
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.537 / Virus Database: 332 - Release Date: 06/11/03
>
>