I picked up 12 gallons of chardonnay juice today.
It had been sitting for a week in the guys truck.
supposed to be at 35°, I dunno if it was really that cold.

I brought it home and took some readings.
1.065 on my hydrometer.
TA .875

The buckets had breathers on them. they were hissing the whole way
home in the car (45min)

When I opened them up and strirred them, it was like carbonated water.

Is this cause they started to ferment?
Is that why I have a low gravity reading?

I am not happy with what I purchased...

"Pete" > wrote in message
...
> I picked up 12 gallons of chardonnay juice today.
> It had been sitting for a week in the guys truck.
> supposed to be at 35°, I dunno if it was really that cold.
>
> I brought it home and took some readings.
> 1.065 on my hydrometer.
> TA .875
>
> The buckets had breathers on them. they were hissing the whole way
> home in the car (45min)
>
> When I opened them up and strirred them, it was like carbonated water.
>
> Is this cause they started to ferment?
> Is that why I have a low gravity reading?
>
> I am not happy with what I purchased...

I wouldn't worry about it. So it started without you. So what? The wine
will probably be good anyway, but now it's up to you not to screw it up.
Sounds like it's down to ~17° Brix, and well under way, and the TA is in the
normal range.

Think of it as discovering that your new girlfriend is not a virgin. She
might be a _lot_ better than you expect! ;^)

Tom S

Wow, interesting analogy.

Yes, it's fermenting and no, I doubt you have a problem. Anyway, I
get California juice in Pittsburgh so it comes a long way to get to
me. The only way to make sure it is not fermenting when I get it is
to buy it the day it arrives.

There are probably values posted on the buckets if this came from a
packing house, so just use those values as a guide. If it came from
California, there is no way the brix was low, so I would not worry
about it either. If it came from the Northeast, I might try to find
out what value it was originally, but those numbers sound ok to me
too. I might still pitch the yeast you wanted originally, but that is
your call.
Regards,
Joe

"Tom S" > wrote in message >...
> "Pete" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I picked up 12 gallons of chardonnay juice today.
> > It had been sitting for a week in the guys truck.
> > supposed to be at 35°, I dunno if it was really that cold.
> >
> > I brought it home and took some readings.
> > 1.065 on my hydrometer.
> > TA .875
> >
> > The buckets had breathers on them. they were hissing the whole way
> > home in the car (45min)
> >
> > When I opened them up and strirred them, it was like carbonated water.
> >
> > Is this cause they started to ferment?
> > Is that why I have a low gravity reading?
> >
> > I am not happy with what I purchased...
>
> I wouldn't worry about it. So it started without you. So what? The wine
> will probably be good anyway, but now it's up to you not to screw it up.
> Sounds like it's down to ~17° Brix, and well under way, and the TA is in the
> normal range.
>
> Think of it as discovering that your new girlfriend is not a virgin. She
> might be a _lot_ better than you expect! ;^)
>
> Tom S

"Joe Sallustio" > wrote:

> I might still pitch the yeast you wanted originally, but that is your
call.

Will this help or hinder? Won't the yeast "battle it out" for dominance
until the stronger prevails? In which case the ferment would be interrupted
until a victor was determined, although presumably the wine yeast would win
out over the natural yeast. If not, what will be the result of a mixture of
yeast types?

I know that _prior_ to fermentation, we add sulfite to stun the wild yeast,
and then pitch a cultured wine yeast --- but is this wise during
fermentation?

Not criticizing. Just curious.

"Negodki" > wrote in message
...
> "Joe Sallustio" > wrote:
>
> > I might still pitch the yeast you wanted originally, but that is your
> call.
>
> Will this help or hinder? Won't the yeast "battle it out" for dominance
> until the stronger prevails? In which case the ferment would be
interrupted
> until a victor was determined, although presumably the wine yeast would
win
> out over the natural yeast. If not, what will be the result of a mixture
of
> yeast types?
>
> I know that _prior_ to fermentation, we add sulfite to stun the wild
yeast,
> and then pitch a cultured wine yeast --- but is this wise during
> fermentation?

I would add a cultured strain to this fermentation, but not any sulfite.
The cultured and wild strains won't stop fermenting while they "battle it
out", but the wild strain may not be able to finish the job on its own.
BTW, spontaneous ML is probably also going on in there as well.

Tom S

I added sulfite last night.
2 grams per 6 gallon.

I placed them in my fridge. I was going to set the temp at 60° F


On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:56:03 GMT, "Tom S" >
wrote:

>
>"Negodki" > wrote in message
...
>> "Joe Sallustio" > wrote:
>>
>> > I might still pitch the yeast you wanted originally, but that is your
>> call.
>>
>> Will this help or hinder? Won't the yeast "battle it out" for dominance
>> until the stronger prevails? In which case the ferment would be
>interrupted
>> until a victor was determined, although presumably the wine yeast would
>win
>> out over the natural yeast. If not, what will be the result of a mixture
>of
>> yeast types?
>>
>> I know that _prior_ to fermentation, we add sulfite to stun the wild
>yeast,
>> and then pitch a cultured wine yeast --- but is this wise during
>> fermentation?
>
>I would add a cultured strain to this fermentation, but not any sulfite.
>The cultured and wild strains won't stop fermenting while they "battle it
>out", but the wild strain may not be able to finish the job on its own.
>BTW, spontaneous ML is probably also going on in there as well.
>
>Tom S
>

It came from California. Lodi valley?

There were no values on the bucket...
It sat in the truck cause the guy never contacted me to let me know
the juice and grapes were in...


On 14 Oct 2003 03:55:35 -0700, (Joe Sallustio)
wrote:

>Wow, interesting analogy.
>
>Yes, it's fermenting and no, I doubt you have a problem. Anyway, I
>get California juice in Pittsburgh so it comes a long way to get to
>me. The only way to make sure it is not fermenting when I get it is
>to buy it the day it arrives.
>
>There are probably values posted on the buckets if this came from a
>packing house, so just use those values as a guide. If it came from
>California, there is no way the brix was low, so I would not worry
>about it either. If it came from the Northeast, I might try to find
>out what value it was originally, but those numbers sound ok to me
>too. I might still pitch the yeast you wanted originally, but that is
>your call.
>Regards,
>Joe
>
>"Tom S" > wrote in message >...
>> "Pete" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > I picked up 12 gallons of chardonnay juice today.
>> > It had been sitting for a week in the guys truck.
>> > supposed to be at 35°, I dunno if it was really that cold.
>> >
>> > I brought it home and took some readings.
>> > 1.065 on my hydrometer.
>> > TA .875
>> >
>> > The buckets had breathers on them. they were hissing the whole way
>> > home in the car (45min)
>> >
>> > When I opened them up and strirred them, it was like carbonated water.
>> >
>> > Is this cause they started to ferment?
>> > Is that why I have a low gravity reading?
>> >
>> > I am not happy with what I purchased...
>>
>> I wouldn't worry about it. So it started without you. So what? The wine
>> will probably be good anyway, but now it's up to you not to screw it up.
>> Sounds like it's down to ~17° Brix, and well under way, and the TA is in the
>> normal range.
>>
>> Think of it as discovering that your new girlfriend is not a virgin. She
>> might be a _lot_ better than you expect! ;^)
>>
>> Tom S

I guess it depends on the strain you select, but most cultured yeasts
seem to take off pretty quickly.

K1V1116 from Lalvin actually takes over for sure, and it's a pretty
decent all purpose yeast. I use mostly Lalvin yeast and all of them
take off within 2 days, I have never had a really slow grape wine
fermentation.

As to which wins out, all that matters is that one of them gets it to
completion for me. Some yeast produce H2S more than others, but I'm
not saying a wild yeast is necessarily bad or even does this, just
that's it's an unknown quantity. 5 grams of wine yeast is under $1,
it's cheap insurance.

I would not sulfite a fermenting must, even if it was fermenting with
wild yeast. I would just pitch the cultured yeast. Pailed juice is
almost always sulfited to at least 100 PPM so adding sulfite may not
be a good idea with pailed juice (especially if the existing sulfite
content is unknown.)
Regards,
Joe


"Negodki" > wrote in message >...
> "Joe Sallustio" > wrote:
>
> > I might still pitch the yeast you wanted originally, but that is your
> call.
>
> Will this help or hinder? Won't the yeast "battle it out" for dominance
> until the stronger prevails? In which case the ferment would be interrupted
> until a victor was determined, although presumably the wine yeast would win
> out over the natural yeast. If not, what will be the result of a mixture of
> yeast types?
>
> I know that _prior_ to fermentation, we add sulfite to stun the wild yeast,
> and then pitch a cultured wine yeast --- but is this wise during
> fermentation?
>
> Not criticizing. Just curious.

My local supplier was trying to get rid of his last grapes and juice.
He put a nice discount on them and I picked up some Alexanders
viognier yesterday. Although refrigerated, the stuff had already
fermented down to 15 brix when I measured it at home. I tossed in some
cotes de blanc and am hoping for the best. I also picked some up some
syrah juice and stuck it in my freezer. How far it fermented, I don't
know. I plan to throw my chambourcin skins in it when I pick in 2
weeks.
Tim
> I guess it depends on the strain you select, but most cultured yeasts
> seem to take off pretty quickly.
>
> K1V1116 from Lalvin actually takes over for sure, and it's a pretty
> decent all purpose yeast. I use mostly Lalvin yeast and all of them
> take off within 2 days, I have never had a really slow grape wine
> fermentation.
>
> As to which wins out, all that matters is that one of them gets it to
> completion for me. Some yeast produce H2S more than others, but I'm
> not saying a wild yeast is necessarily bad or even does this, just
> that's it's an unknown quantity. 5 grams of wine yeast is under $1,
> it's cheap insurance.
>
> I would not sulfite a fermenting must, even if it was fermenting with
> wild yeast. I would just pitch the cultured yeast. Pailed juice is
> almost always sulfited to at least 100 PPM so adding sulfite may not
> be a good idea with pailed juice (especially if the existing sulfite
> content is unknown.)
> Regards,
> Joe
>
>
>

"Tim McNally" > wrote in message
m...
> My local supplier was trying to get rid of his last grapes and juice.
> He put a nice discount on them and I picked up some Alexanders
> viognier yesterday. Although refrigerated, the stuff had already
> fermented down to 15 brix when I measured it at home. I tossed in some
> cotes de blanc and am hoping for the best.

Personally, I wouldn't use CdB on Viognier unless I wanted to finish it
off-dry. OTOH, the wild fermentation is probably going to be the dominant
one in this case, and it'll probably go dry with that. I'd recommend that
you get some yeast nutrient in there for sure unless you plan to bottle it
sweet or don't worry about the possibility of H2S formation.

Tom S

I racked each to a secondary now.
The reading was 1.003 and 1.0002

The TA was .660
Is this something I should be concerned with?
I will be adding some Oak shortly.




On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:27:37 -0500, Pete > wrote:

>I picked up 12 gallons of chardonnay juice today.
>It had been sitting for a week in the guys truck.
>supposed to be at 35°, I dunno if it was really that cold.
>
>I brought it home and took some readings.
>1.065 on my hydrometer.
>TA .875
>
>The buckets had breathers on them. they were hissing the whole way
>home in the car (45min)
>
>When I opened them up and strirred them, it was like carbonated water.
>
>Is this cause they started to ferment?
>Is that why I have a low gravity reading?
>
>I am not happy with what I purchased...
>

"Pete" > wrote in message
...
> I racked each to a secondary now.
> The reading was 1.003 and 1.0002
>
> The TA was .660
> Is this something I should be concerned with?
> I will be adding some Oak shortly.

I wouldn't necessarily worry about the TA, but what was the pH?

Also, why didn't you add the oak right at the outset? That's the best time
for _any_ addition. It's an overlooked issue, but barrel fermentation gets
the oak and fruit up close and personal very early. The flavors integrate
much better when they are introduced to each other early. Same goes for
acid adjustments - except moreso.

FWIW, if you add oak late, leave the yeast lees in there too, and stir it
every few months. As always, keep the free SO2 where it should be for the
pH of the wine.

Tom S

I only added meta before I added the yeast.

Should I have added more when I racked?

I dunno what the PH is, I broke my meter.


On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 03:56:50 GMT, "Tom S" >
wrote:

>
>"Pete" > wrote in message
.. .
>> I racked each to a secondary now.
>> The reading was 1.003 and 1.0002
>>
>> The TA was .660
>> Is this something I should be concerned with?
>> I will be adding some Oak shortly.
>
>I wouldn't necessarily worry about the TA, but what was the pH?
>
>Also, why didn't you add the oak right at the outset? That's the best time
>for _any_ addition. It's an overlooked issue, but barrel fermentation gets
>the oak and fruit up close and personal very early. The flavors integrate
>much better when they are introduced to each other early. Same goes for
>acid adjustments - except moreso.
>
>FWIW, if you add oak late, leave the yeast lees in there too, and stir it
>every few months. As always, keep the free SO2 where it should be for the
>pH of the wine.
>
>Tom S
>