Hi all,
I have been lurking around a while and am climbing over the parapet
now cos I am going to do a bit more fermentation..

I am planning a wine type drink based around elderberry, apple and
honey, all of which i have a ready and local supply of.
Apart from the obvious 'dont use too many elderberries', does any one
have any ideas on a wine that can be drunk young, to suit the malic
acid content, yet is soft on the tannin?

I am thinking along the lines of pressing the fruit without pulp
fermentation, to avoid too much extraction from the skins...or, In
Perry (pear cider) and cider making to a lesser extent, the fruit may
be macerated for several hours between milling and pressing, during
which time tannins can be absorbed from the juice back into the pulp,
resulting in a softer drink.

Has anyone messed around in this area or have any advice?

denis

thanks Luc,
Do you think there are softer tannins in the juice than in the skin,
or just more in the skin? I am wondering if I should up the fruit
quantity as juice only..
I have checked your blog, which reminded me of the hedgerow wine I
used to make, 2 parts elderberry to 1 part other fruit and think I
might add other hedgerow fruit to the mix.
I have seen recipies that include rice or barley with elderberry (H.E.
Bravery), have you tried this? Wondering if the starch in the grain
has an effect on the tannin levels?
Denis

Luc,
A few years ago I made a hedgerow fruit which i pulp fermented for 7
days, that dark elderberry tannin never softened!

I am intending to produce a dry fruity medium bodied wine, so may
lower the elderberry content and increase other fruit

Denis

Oh for the patience (or well enough stocked cellar) to leave wines for
6 years!

Today I went for a journey round the local area and found sloes,
damsons and greengages a plenty, so a blend it is. As long as I have
enough honey I will have a play with a slow maturing elder..

Denis

On Jul 28, 5:50*pm, ddan > wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have been lurking around a while and am climbing over the parapet
> now cos I am going to do a bit more fermentation..
>
> I am planning a wine type drink based around elderberry, apple and
> honey, all of which i have a ready and local supply of.
> Apart from the obvious 'dont use too many elderberries', does any one
> have any ideas on a wine that can be drunk young, to suit the malic
> acid content, yet is soft on the tannin?
>
> I am thinking along the lines of pressing the fruit without pulp
> fermentation, to avoid too much extraction from the skins...or, In
> Perry (pear cider) and cider making to a lesser extent, the fruit may
> be macerated for several hours between milling and pressing, during
> which time tannins can be absorbed from the juice back into the pulp,
> resulting in a softer drink.
>
> Has anyone messed around in this area or have any advice?
>
> denis

I've made several batches of elderberry melomel over the years and it
takes several years for them to mellow out. Elderberry wine, using
sugar instead of honey, matures much quicker although ageing always
improves the taste.

I agree with the freeze/thaw suggestion made by another poster. I
generally freeze all my fruit, other than grapes.

Paul

ddan wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have been lurking around a while and am climbing over the parapet
> now cos I am going to do a bit more fermentation..
>
> I am planning a wine type drink based around elderberry, apple and
> honey, all of which i have a ready and local supply of.
> Apart from the obvious 'dont use too many elderberries', does any one
> have any ideas on a wine that can be drunk young, to suit the malic
> acid content, yet is soft on the tannin?
>
> I am thinking along the lines of pressing the fruit without pulp
> fermentation, to avoid too much extraction from the skins...or, In
> Perry (pear cider) and cider making to a lesser extent, the fruit may
> be macerated for several hours between milling and pressing, during
> which time tannins can be absorbed from the juice back into the pulp,
> resulting in a softer drink.
>
> Has anyone messed around in this area or have any advice?
>
I have made an elderberry and grape wine using (IIRC - it was about 8 years
ago) about a couple of pounds of elder and about 4 or so of grape to make a
couple of gallons of wine. It did seem more mellow than the normal
elderberry wine and was certainly drinkable after a year.

The best wine I ever made was a straight elderberry wine - but I did leave
it to mature for at least 4 years. Actually I forgot about it and discovered
it in the back of a cupboard when we had a tidy up. It was gorgeous.

--
Malc

Rusted and ropy.
Dog-eared old copy.
Vintage and classic,
or just plain Jurassic:
all words to describe me.

On Aug 11, 5:18*pm, "malc" > wrote:
> ddan wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > I have been lurking around a while and am climbing over the parapet
> > now cos I am going to do a bit more fermentation..
>
> > I am planning a wine type drink based around elderberry, apple and
> > honey, all of which i have a ready and local supply of.
> > Apart from the obvious 'dont use too many elderberries', does any one
> > have any ideas on a wine that can be drunk young, to suit the malic
> > acid content, yet is soft on the tannin?
>
> > I am thinking along the lines of pressing the fruit without pulp
> > fermentation, to avoid too much extraction from the skins...or, In
> > Perry (pear cider) and cider making to a lesser extent, the fruit may
> > be macerated for several hours between milling and pressing, during
> > which time tannins can be absorbed from the juice back into the pulp,
> > resulting in a softer drink.
>
> > Has anyone messed around in this area or have any advice?
>
> I have made an elderberry and grape wine using (IIRC - it was about 8 years
> ago) about a couple of pounds of elder and about 4 or so of grape to make a
> couple of gallons of wine. It did seem more mellow than the normal
> elderberry wine and was certainly drinkable after a year.
>
> The best wine I ever made was a straight elderberry wine - but I did leave
> it to mature for at least 4 years. Actually I forgot about it and discovered
> it in the back of a cupboard when we had a tidy up. It was gorgeous.
>
> --
> Malc
>
> Rusted and ropy.
> Dog-eared old copy.
> Vintage and classic,
> or just plain Jurassic:
> all words to describe me.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

What sort of grapes do you use? When I moved to my current place,
there were only Concord grapes. I've found that a blend of 20%
elderberry and 80% Concord is a good combination when aged out a few
years. The elderberries add depth to the fruity, foxey Concords.

The Marechal Foch vines I planted started bearing a couple of years
ago and I've begun experimenting with Foch/Concord blends.

Paul

Pavel314 wrote:

>
> What sort of grapes do you use?

I have no idea, these were from a friend's garden and were a touch over
ripe. It was a case of make wine now or top up the compost heap.


--
Malc

Rusted and ropy.
Dog-eared old copy.
Vintage and classic,
or just plain Jurassic:
all words to describe me.