I've seen references to ML fermentation in lots of posts but never
made much more than concord, blackberry, strawberry, and some other
fruit wines.

I don't suppose ML fermentation would be useful in those wines, but
what sort of wines is it used in, and what does it do for the wine?

Is this related in any way to a lactobacillus fermentation?

Thanks!!!

Don

On Dec 26, 9:05*pm, Donald > wrote:
> I've seen references to ML fermentation in lots of posts but never
> made much more than concord, blackberry, strawberry, and some other
> fruit wines.
>
> I don't suppose ML fermentation would be useful in those wines, but
> what sort of wines is it used in, and what does it do for the wine?
>
> Is this related in any way to a lactobacillus fermentation?
>
> Thanks!!!
>
> Don

I suppose you could induce MLF in a concord, but i'm not sure that
the expense would be worth the outcome. I use it to add complexity to
wine.

I use Baccus Malolactic Bacteria oenococcus oeni for my MLF.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 06:03:24 -0800 (PST), Wayne Harris
> wrote:

>
>I suppose you could induce MLF in a concord, but i'm not sure that
>the expense would be worth the outcome. I use it to add complexity to
>wine.
>
>I use Baccus Malolactic Bacteria oenococcus oeni for my MLF.
>

I agree, Concord doesn't need any complexity, nor would most fruit
wines like strawberry, blackberry, etc.

I was curious as to what it did.

Are there certain varietal wines where it is more or less a
requirement in the process, or is this an optional thing?

Don

"Donald" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 06:03:24 -0800 (PST), Wayne Harris
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>I suppose you could induce MLF in a concord, but i'm not sure that
>>the expense would be worth the outcome. I use it to add complexity to
>>wine.
>>
>>I use Baccus Malolactic Bacteria oenococcus oeni for my MLF.
>>
>
> I agree, Concord doesn't need any complexity, nor would most fruit
> wines like strawberry, blackberry, etc.
>
> I was curious as to what it did.
>
> Are there certain varietal wines where it is more or less a
> requirement in the process, or is this an optional thing?
>
> Don

Donald,

Grapes contain about equal parts of tartaric acid and malic acid. Most high
quality red wines are made using two distinctly different fermentations.
The conversion of malic acid into lactic acid by bacteria in wine is called
malolactic fermentation (MLF). Small quantities of different byproducts are
produced during malolactic fermentation, and some of these byproducts can
make positive contributions to the quality of the wine. Lactic acid is
weaker than malic acid. So MLF can also reduce wine acidity and improve the
balance of high acid wines. In addition, MLF removes unstable malic acid
from the wine, and when all of the malic acid is gone, the wine is more
stable biologically.

The presence of malic acid in high pH red wines always represents a
potential stability problem. Bottled wines containing malic acid and lactic
acid bacteria often undergo malolactic fermentation and MLF in bottled wine
produces ugly bottle deposits, off-odors, bad tastes and effervescent wine.
MLF in white and blush wines can usually be controlled with sulfur dioxide.
But, MLF in red wines is more difficult to control, and high pH, red wines
containing malic acid are very prone to MLF.

Lum

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:50:35 -0800, "Lum Eisenman"
> wrote:

> . . . The presence of malic acid in high pH red wines always represents a
>potential stability problem. Bottled wines containing malic acid and lactic
>acid bacteria often undergo malolactic fermentation and MLF in bottled wine
>produces ugly bottle deposits, off-odors, bad tastes and effervescent wine.
>MLF in white and blush wines can usually be controlled with sulfur dioxide.
>But, MLF in red wines is more difficult to control, and high pH, red wines
>containing malic acid are very prone to MLF.
>
>Lum

Thanks for the "why" of it all.

If I ever make a varietal wine, I'll need learn more about this.

Don

On Dec 29, 6:56*pm, Donald > wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:50:35 -0800, "Lum Eisenman"
>
> > wrote:
> > . . . The presence of malic acid in high pH red wines always represents a
> >potential stability problem. Bottled wines containing malic acid and lactic
> >acid bacteria often undergo malolactic fermentation and MLF in bottled wine
> >produces ugly bottle deposits, off-odors, bad tastes and effervescent wine.
> >MLF in white and blush wines can usually be controlled with sulfur dioxide.
> >But, MLF in red wines is more difficult to control, and high pH, red wines
> >containing malic acid are very prone to MLF.
>
> >Lum
>
> Thanks for the "why" of it all.
>
> If I ever make a varietal wine, I'll need learn more about this.
>
> Don

Don,
Concord is a high acid grape, MLF isn't something I would use on any
fruit forward wine like it. It softens a wine as Lum mentioned. It's
usually used to soften acids but the type of grape matters too. It
reduces fruitiness so that plays into the decision. It can occur
spontaneously so proper sulfite levels are needed if it is to be
avoided. Sulfite levels in red wine are hard to measure so some people
just add 1/4 teaspoon potassium metabisulfite at bottling.

Joe

"Donald" > wrote in message
...
> I've seen references to ML fermentation in lots of posts but never
> made much more than concord, blackberry, strawberry, and some other
> fruit wines.
>
> I don't suppose ML fermentation would be useful in those wines, but
> what sort of wines is it used in, and what does it do for the wine?
>
> Is this related in any way to a lactobacillus fermentation?
>
> Thanks!!!
>
> Don

ML fermentation is considered desirable in cider, as a producer of a
more mellow outcome.

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 05:15:37 -0800 (PST), Joe Sallustio
> wrote:

> It can occur
>spontaneously so proper sulfite levels are needed if it is to be
>avoided. Sulfite levels in red wine are hard to measure so some people
>just add 1/4 teaspoon potassium metabisulfite at bottling.

Now I have to decide if I want any for my wife to have or not since
she is sulfite sensitive and it makes her sick. I can tolerate it if
it bothers me by taking medicine for my asthma. Up until now I've
avoided sulfites after the initial 24 hours (after which I also pitch
the yeast). I didn't realize that ML was a risk for this wine.

Don

On Jan 5, 10:15*pm, Donald > wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 05:15:37 -0800 (PST), Joe Sallustio
>
> > wrote:
> > It can occur
> >spontaneously so proper sulfite levels are needed if it is to be
> >avoided. Sulfite levels in red wine are hard to measure so some people
> >just add 1/4 teaspoon potassium metabisulfite at bottling.
>
> Now I have to decide if I want any for my wife to have or not since
> she is sulfite sensitive and it makes her sick. I can tolerate it if
> it bothers me by taking medicine for my asthma. Up until now I've
> avoided sulfites after the initial 24 hours (after which I also pitch
> the yeast). I didn't realize that ML was a risk for this wine.
>
> Don

Don,

Yeast choice is key also. If you want a fruit foward wine without
spontanous MLF or at least very little MLF kicking off in the primary
fermentation use a Bayanus yeast strain. Prisse de Mousse from Red
Star is cheap and it works great. MLF can , and will kick off in the
primary if you use yeast that is conducive to MLF. Prisse de Mouse is
a killer strain and hogs all the nutrients from the MLF bacteria to
prevent/retard MLF from starting. If you use a yeast like 71-B, d254,
d80, d47 MLF will be going strong even before primary is complete.

Bob