I may have several dozen extra Barbera vines available in Arizona. One
of the parties involved in a large order is having second thoughts.
That would leave the rest of us with far more than we need. Anyone
here interested? You could pick them up in Tucson or Phoenix.

By the way, Barbera should be an excellent hot climate grape. It's
said to retain a good amount of acidity despite extreme heat.

Just to keep this on topic, has anyone here made Barbera from fresh
grapes? What was your experience with this variety?

Greg G.

On Dec 26, 9:53*am, wrote:
> I may have several dozen extra Barbera vines available in Arizona. One
> of the parties involved in a large order is having second thoughts.
> That would leave the rest of us with far more than we need. Anyone
> here interested? You could pick them up in Tucson or Phoenix.
>
> By the way, Barbera should be an excellent hot climate grape. It's
> said to retain a good amount of acidity despite extreme heat.
>
> Just to keep this on topic, has anyone here made Barbera from fresh
> grapes? What was your experience with this variety?
>
> Greg G.

I have made Barbera from grapes and it has turned out to be an
excellent wine. I aged it in the barrel for about a year. A year in
the bottle improved the balance and flavor quite a bit. Let us know
how you make out with growing grapes in Arizona. The heat seems to be
too much for me and I would be concerned about irrigating the vines
since I would think that you would want to have the roots go deep into
the soil to pick up the minerals in the soil and so on. However, I
really don't know much about growing grapes, it is just the concern
based upon my ignorance of the topic. Best of luck.
Orlando

We've done 3 batches of barbera from Lodi grapes freighted into Boston.
First batch (and it was our first ever batch) we did "old timers" style: we
did nothing to the fruit except crush, press, & later bottle - no chemistry
at all! The wine was fabooo! tons of compliments, wish I kept some!
Batch 2, the next year, was a disaster - a $400 lesson in the value of MLF &
what not to do. Geranium City! Batch 3 was done 2 years ago & we
apparently had another Malo problem that wasn't apparent until after we
bottled.. There's a hint of geraniums in the nose and some petillance on the
tongue but after it breathes for an hour, its fine. We know it's probably
our methodology to blame, but we're gunshy about barbera grapes now. No
probs with other varietals (zin, CS, merlot,chard) so we're a wee tad
befuddled by barbera. YMMV, HTH, regards, bob



> wrote in message
...
>I may have several dozen extra Barbera vines available in Arizona. One
> of the parties involved in a large order is having second thoughts.
> That would leave the rest of us with far more than we need. Anyone
> here interested? You could pick them up in Tucson or Phoenix.
>
> By the way, Barbera should be an excellent hot climate grape. It's
> said to retain a good amount of acidity despite extreme heat.
>
> Just to keep this on topic, has anyone here made Barbera from fresh
> grapes? What was your experience with this variety?
>
> Greg G.
>
>
>

On Dec 30, 12:55*pm, "bobdrob" > wrote:
> ...
> Batch 2, the next year, was a disaster - a $400 lesson in the value of MLF &
> what not to do. Geranium City! *...

I'm a bit puzzled. I thought the Geranium aroma only occurred if you
did MLF after treating with sorbate. Surely you aren't adding sorbate
to a dry wine. Is there another cause for this off-odor?

Greg G.

at that time we didn't even know what MLF was! Sorbate wasn't even in our
vocabulary. To this day, I/we have never purchased nor knowingly used
sorbate. We made this batch the same old-timer way as the 1st batch: no
yeast, no acids, no sulfites, period. Somehow, it went horribly wrong. Since
that time, 1998, we've embraced more modern practices. I have no idea what
caused this reaction, though I'm sure there's a sound reason. Anyone else
care to speculate?...



> wrote in message
...
On Dec 30, 12:55 pm, "bobdrob" > wrote:
> ...
> Batch 2, the next year, was a disaster - a $400 lesson in the value of MLF
> &
> what not to do. Geranium City! ...

I'm a bit puzzled. I thought the Geranium aroma only occurred if you
did MLF after treating with sorbate. Surely you aren't adding sorbate
to a dry wine. Is there another cause for this off-odor?

Greg G

bobdrob wrote:

> at that time we didn't even know what MLF was! Sorbate wasn't even in our
> vocabulary. To this day, I/we have never purchased nor knowingly used
> sorbate.

> We made this batch the same old-timer way as the 1st batch: no
> yeast, no acids, no sulfites, period. Somehow, it went horribly wrong.

When you use "no yeast, no acids, no sulfites" you are rolling the dice;
with the exception being, that in dice there are only so many combinations
possible.

In the "old-timer" method of fermentation, the combinations and permutations
are EXTREMELY high and you may never know what happened.

Louis Pasteur won fame and recognition from his studies on why some wines
spoiled and did not taste good. It is amazing that in this time and day,
there are still those who refuse to learn from his work.


> Since
> that time, 1998, we've embraced more modern practices. I have no idea
> what
> caused this reaction, though I'm sure there's a sound reason. Anyone else
> care to speculate?...
>
>
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> On Dec 30, 12:55 pm, "bobdrob" > wrote:
>> ...
>> Batch 2, the next year, was a disaster - a $400 lesson in the value of
>> MLF &
>> what not to do. Geranium City! ...
>
> I'm a bit puzzled. I thought the Geranium aroma only occurred if you
> did MLF after treating with sorbate. Surely you aren't adding sorbate
> to a dry wine. Is there another cause for this off-odor?
>
> Greg G

On Dec 31 2008, 7:07*pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" >
wrote:
> bobdrob wrote:
> > at that time we didn't even know what MLF was! Sorbate wasn't even in our
> > vocabulary. * To this day, I/we have never purchased nor knowingly used
> > sorbate.
> > We made this batch the same old-timer way as the 1st batch: no
> > yeast, no acids, no sulfites, period. Somehow, it went horribly wrong.
>
> When you use "no yeast, no acids, no sulfites" you are rolling the dice;
> with the exception being, that in dice there are only so many combinations
> possible. *
>
> In the "old-timer" method of fermentation, the combinations and permutations
> are EXTREMELY high and you may never know what happened. *
>
> Louis Pasteur won fame and recognition from his studies on why some wines
> spoiled and did not taste good. *It is amazing that in this time and day,
> there are still those who refuse to learn from his work.
>
>
>
> > Since
> > that time, 1998, we've embraced more modern practices. *I have no idea
> > what
> > caused this reaction, though I'm sure there's a sound reason. *Anyone else
> > care to speculate?...
>
> > > wrote in message
> ....
> > On Dec 30, 12:55 pm, "bobdrob" > wrote:
> >> ...
> >> Batch 2, the next year, was a disaster - a $400 lesson in the value of
> >> MLF &
> >> what not to do. Geranium City! ...
>
> > I'm a bit puzzled. I thought the Geranium aroma only occurred if you
> > did MLF after treating with sorbate. Surely you aren't adding sorbate
> > to a dry wine. Is there another cause for this off-odor?
>
> > Greg G- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I can understand the desire to make wine the 'old timers' way. In fact
I understand that many of them never used chemicals and produced fine
wines year after year. Others produced lousy wines and some good ones.
It was a bit of a crap shoot it seems. Paul is correct that Pasteur
did some great work and helped with the consistency of wines; we
should learn from that. However, what do we do with the fact that wine
with chemicals gives some people a headache or causes sneezing? These
same people then find wines without chemicals and have no headaches or
sneezing fits. I will admit that this is a small sample and hardly a
controlled study, but nevertheless, an observation that seems to be
pretty consistent. How does the organic wine movement address this
issue?
Orlando

> I'm a bit puzzled. I thought the Geranium aroma only occurred if you
> did MLF after treating with sorbate. Surely you aren't adding sorbate
> to a dry wine. Is there another cause for this off-odor?

Not that I know of, never heard of this other than with sorbate. Wine
conditioner contains it...

Joe