Is there such a thing as optimum aging period for red and white wine
and if so what is it for red wine and white wine? Thank you in
advance.

On Aug 10, 8:20 am, Jim > wrote:
> Is there such a thing as optimum aging period for red and white wine
> and if so what is it for red wine and white wine? Thank you in
> advance.

Every wine ages differently. There is no single optimum aging period,
but generally speaking, most home wine makers age their reds for a
year or more and their whites for three to six months.

A very well made red wine might need many years in the bottle before
it's at its best. Most whites wouldn't be very good after a few years
in the bottle. A very well made Riesling might be an exception to
that.

Greg G.

On Aug 10, 2:03 pm, wrote:
> On Aug 10, 8:20 am, Jim > wrote:
>
> > Is there such a thing as optimum aging period for red and white wine
> > and if so what is it for red wine and white wine? Thank you in
> > advance.
>
> Every wine ages differently. There is no single optimum aging period,
> but generally speaking, most home wine makers age their reds for a
> year or more and their whites for three to six months.
>
> A very well made red wine might need many years in the bottle before
> it's at its best. Most whites wouldn't be very good after a few years
> in the bottle. A very well made Riesling might be an exception to
> that.
>
> Greg G.

Agreed. Personally, I think most dry whites are better after a few
years but anything fruity or marginally sweet is best in a year. As
to reds, if the pH is under 3.5 and the tannin is high aging will
probably do it well. Oftentimes reds are lighter in tannin now and
don't need years, they are good after 6 months to a year in the
bottle.

The quality of the fruit is most of it; good winemaking technique can
make great wine out of great grapes but can only do so much with less
good fruit.

In general, the lighter the wine, the quicker it will be ready.

Joe

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:20:40 GMT, Jim > wrote:

>Is there such a thing as optimum aging period for red and white wine
>and if so what is it for red wine and white wine? Thank you in
>advance.

This may not answer your question about time lines, but it's
informative just the same...

From the 30SecWineAdvisor
(a free wine lover's page by Robin Garr)
http://www.wineloverspage.com/index.phtml


• Most wines don't age. This point is simple but often overlooked.
Probably 99 percent of all the wines made in the world, including
virtually all inexpensive wines, are never better than when they are
first bottled. Only a tiny fraction are made to age, and an even
smaller number require aging. Look to the most "noble" red grapes -
Cabernet Sauvignon and the Bordeaux blends, Syrah and Shiraz, top
Italian red grapes and, of course, the finer Pinot Noirs, for your
cellar candidates. Ageworthy white wines are even more rare, although
Riesling and Chenin Blanc and a few exceptional Chardonnays will gain
from aging. Sweet and fortified wines, particularly Port and
late-harvest whites like Sauternes, will also age into a golden
maturity. But never assume that a $5 jug wine - or even a $10 "QPR"
value - will benefit from cellaring. Chances are it won't.

• Aging wines need care.. Even the most cellarworthy wines won't
thrive if you keep them under poor conditions. The kitchen cabinet or
other warm place is worst. A wine rack at room temperature (or a
wine-shop rack in the open store environment) is slightly better,
assuming horizontal storage position and air-conditioning. But for
long-term cellaring, as we're discussing here, keeping find young
wines for 10, 20 years or more, you must have a temperature-controlled
cellar that holds the wines horizontally at a constant temperature
close to 55F (13C), the approximate temperature of natural caves.

• What happens when wine ages? Again assuming an ageworthy wine kept
under excellent conditions, the primary reaction that takes place over
time involves changes (technically, polymerization, primarily) in the
organic compounds called tannins that occur naturally in ageable wines
from the red grape skins and seeds as well as the oak barrels in which
the wine may be fermented and stored. As time goes by, the wine's
color may change a bit, taking on more brownish or golden colors or,
among reds, sometimes becoming lighter. The youthful fruit aromas and
flavors (sometimes called "primary") and the aroma characteristics
associated with wine making - yeast and oak, for example - (called
"secondary") will begin to fade somewhat, ideally remaining present
but taking a back seat to the intriguing, complex earthy flavors
("tertiary"), which may evoke a wide range of attractive aromas and
flavors from toast or leather to woodsy or s! picy scents. At the same
time, the changes in tannins reduce or remove the rough astringency
associated with young tannins, replacing this with a more smooth and
mellow texture. And all this assumes that the young wine offered a
good balance of fruit, acidity and tannins in the first place. A
youthful wine that's out of whack and imbalanced isn't likely to
achieve greater grace and elegance with age.

On Aug 21, 1:18*am, Jim Oakley > wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:20:40 GMT, Jim > wrote:
> >Is there such a thing as optimum aging period for red and white wine
> >and if so what is it for red wine and white wine? Thank you in
> >advance.
>
> This may not answer your question about time lines, but it's
> informative just the same...
>
> From the 30SecWineAdvisor
> (a free wine lover's page by Robin Garr)http://www.wineloverspage.com/index.phtml
>
> • Most wines don't age. This point is simple but often overlooked.
> Probably 99 percent of all the wines made in the world, including
> virtually all inexpensive wines, are never better than when they are
> first bottled. Only a tiny fraction are made to age, and an even
> smaller number require aging. Look to the most "noble" red grapes -
> Cabernet Sauvignon and the Bordeaux blends, Syrah and Shiraz, top
> Italian red grapes and, of course, the finer Pinot Noirs, for your
> cellar candidates. Ageworthy white wines are even more rare, although
> Riesling and Chenin Blanc and a few exceptional Chardonnays will gain
> from aging. Sweet and fortified wines, particularly Port and
> late-harvest whites like Sauternes, will also age into a golden
> maturity. But never assume that a $5 jug wine - or even a $10 "QPR"
> value - will benefit from cellaring. Chances are it won't.
>
> • Aging wines need care.. Even the most cellarworthy wines won't
> thrive if you keep them under poor conditions. The kitchen cabinet or
> other warm place is worst. A wine rack at room temperature (or a
> wine-shop rack in the open store environment) is slightly better,
> assuming horizontal storage position and air-conditioning. But for
> long-term cellaring, as we're discussing here, keeping find young
> wines for 10, 20 years or more, you must have a temperature-controlled
> cellar that holds the wines horizontally at a constant temperature
> close to 55F (13C), the approximate temperature of natural caves.
>
> • What happens when wine ages? Again assuming an ageworthy wine kept
> under excellent conditions, the primary reaction that takes place over
> time involves changes (technically, polymerization, primarily) in the
> organic compounds called tannins that occur naturally in ageable wines
> from the red grape skins and seeds as well as the oak barrels in which
> the wine may be fermented and stored. As time goes by, the wine's
> color may change a bit, taking on more brownish or golden colors or,
> among reds, sometimes becoming lighter. The youthful fruit aromas and
> flavors (sometimes called "primary") and the aroma characteristics
> associated with wine making - yeast and oak, for example - (called
> "secondary") will begin to fade somewhat, ideally remaining present
> but taking a back seat to the intriguing, complex earthy flavors
> ("tertiary"), which may evoke a wide range of attractive aromas and
> flavors from toast or leather to woodsy or s! picy scents. At the same
> time, the changes in tannins reduce or remove the rough astringency
> associated with young tannins, replacing this with a more smooth and
> mellow texture. And all this assumes that the young wine offered a
> good balance of fruit, acidity and tannins in the first place. A
> youthful wine that's out of whack and imbalanced isn't likely to
> achieve greater grace and elegance with age.

I certainly agree with the premise but I'm not sure I agree they don't
get better at all, at least with reds. People give me a lot of store
bought wine and I rarely get around to opening one for a couple
years. Oftentimes I know the wine as it's typically served and I
really can't remember ever opening one a couple years later and not
thinking it wasn't better than I expected. I'm not talking huge
improvment; just, well, rounder, nice. (I could be coloring the
judgement with my " I make this for $2 and this is good but not worth
$15 to me." attitude. )

Joe

if you are talking about red country wines I must say that with all
blackberries/elderberry wines of whatever proportion of mix, it is essential
to bulk age for at least 2 years. There is a massive difference between a very
young red country wine and it older counterpart.

Just a brief visit

I also find that the red kit wines I make are considerably improved by bulk
aging for a year or so!

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk


"Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
...
On Aug 21, 1:18 am, Jim Oakley > wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:20:40 GMT, Jim > wrote:
> >Is there such a thing as optimum aging period for red and white wine
> >and if so what is it for red wine and white wine? Thank you in
> >advance.
>
> This may not answer your question about time lines, but it's
> informative just the same...
>
> From the 30SecWineAdvisor
> (a free wine lover's page by Robin
> Garr)http://www.wineloverspage.com/index.phtml
>
> • Most wines don't age. This point is simple but often overlooked.
> Probably 99 percent of all the wines made in the world, including
> virtually all inexpensive wines, are never better than when they are
> first bottled. Only a tiny fraction are made to age, and an even
> smaller number require aging. Look to the most "noble" red grapes -
> Cabernet Sauvignon and the Bordeaux blends, Syrah and Shiraz, top
> Italian red grapes and, of course, the finer Pinot Noirs, for your
> cellar candidates. Ageworthy white wines are even more rare, although
> Riesling and Chenin Blanc and a few exceptional Chardonnays will gain
> from aging. Sweet and fortified wines, particularly Port and
> late-harvest whites like Sauternes, will also age into a golden
> maturity. But never assume that a $5 jug wine - or even a $10 "QPR"
> value - will benefit from cellaring. Chances are it won't.
>
> • Aging wines need care.. Even the most cellarworthy wines won't
> thrive if you keep them under poor conditions. The kitchen cabinet or
> other warm place is worst. A wine rack at room temperature (or a
> wine-shop rack in the open store environment) is slightly better,
> assuming horizontal storage position and air-conditioning. But for
> long-term cellaring, as we're discussing here, keeping find young
> wines for 10, 20 years or more, you must have a temperature-controlled
> cellar that holds the wines horizontally at a constant temperature
> close to 55F (13C), the approximate temperature of natural caves.
>
> • What happens when wine ages? Again assuming an ageworthy wine kept
> under excellent conditions, the primary reaction that takes place over
> time involves changes (technically, polymerization, primarily) in the
> organic compounds called tannins that occur naturally in ageable wines
> from the red grape skins and seeds as well as the oak barrels in which
> the wine may be fermented and stored. As time goes by, the wine's
> color may change a bit, taking on more brownish or golden colors or,
> among reds, sometimes becoming lighter. The youthful fruit aromas and
> flavors (sometimes called "primary") and the aroma characteristics
> associated with wine making - yeast and oak, for example - (called
> "secondary") will begin to fade somewhat, ideally remaining present
> but taking a back seat to the intriguing, complex earthy flavors
> ("tertiary"), which may evoke a wide range of attractive aromas and
> flavors from toast or leather to woodsy or s! picy scents. At the same
> time, the changes in tannins reduce or remove the rough astringency
> associated with young tannins, replacing this with a more smooth and
> mellow texture. And all this assumes that the young wine offered a
> good balance of fruit, acidity and tannins in the first place. A
> youthful wine that's out of whack and imbalanced isn't likely to
> achieve greater grace and elegance with age.

I certainly agree with the premise but I'm not sure I agree they don't
get better at all, at least with reds. People give me a lot of store
bought wine and I rarely get around to opening one for a couple
years. Oftentimes I know the wine as it's typically served and I
really can't remember ever opening one a couple years later and not
thinking it wasn't better than I expected. I'm not talking huge
improvment; just, well, rounder, nice. (I could be coloring the
judgement with my " I make this for $2 and this is good but not worth
$15 to me." attitude. )

Joe

I agree. One of my first recipe wines was cranberry - in 2005, it is
just now coming around. The first two years - it was horrible. smile.
My fruit wines, I don't even consider for two years. My red kit wines, I
find aging a year is great, though my Pinor Noir from kits - only 3
months. Not sure if it's me. smile.
DAve


Trevor A Panther wrote:
> if you are talking about red country wines I must say that with all
> blackberries/elderberry wines of whatever proportion of mix, it is
> essential to bulk age for at least 2 years. There is a massive
> difference between a very young red country wine and it older counterpart.
>
> Just a brief visit
>
> I also find that the red kit wines I make are considerably improved by
> bulk aging for a year or so!
>

On 8/21/2008 1:18 AM, Jim Oakley wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:20:40 GMT, Jim > wrote:
[snipped]
> From the 30SecWineAdvisor
> (a free wine lover's page by Robin Garr)
> http://www.wineloverspage.com/index.phtml
>
>
> • Most wines don't age. This point is simple but often overlooked.
> Probably 99 percent of all the wines made in the world, including
> virtually all inexpensive wines, are never better than when they are
> first bottled. Only a tiny fraction are made to age, and an even
> smaller number require aging.

I've got to say that I disagree strongly with this advice. I can't
count the number of times I've visited a small Virginia winery for a
tasting of their very best, found it all to be marginal (I prefer reds,
and VA reds are typically horrible), and bought a couple bottles that I
thought might age well and parked them in the wine cellar (read: the
room in the basement I've dedicated to brewing wine, mead, and beer) for
a few years. I typically take a completely uninformed (as in, I'm no
sommelier or wine expert) guess and write the year I think they'll be
more approachable on the label. Say, 2-3 years or so. In almost every
case I've been happy to have purchased the bottle once it has a few more
years of age.

My sample size is fairly small, but all of the wines would fall into the
"inexpensive wines" category, even if the small winery puts a price on
the bottle which it can not represent.


Cheers,
Ken Taborek

mail box wrote:

> On 8/21/2008 1:18 AM, Jim Oakley wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:20:40 GMT, Jim
>> > wrote:
> [snipped]
>> From the 30SecWineAdvisor
>> (a free wine lover's page by Robin Garr)
>> http://www.wineloverspage.com/index.phtml
>>
>>
>> ? Most wines don't age. This point is simple
>> but often overlooked. Probably 99 percent of
>> all the wines made in the world, including
>> virtually all inexpensive wines, are never
>> better than when they are first bottled. Only a
>> tiny fraction are made to age, and an even
>> smaller number require aging.
>
> I've got to say that I disagree strongly with
> this advice. I can't count the number of times
> I've visited a small Virginia winery for a
> tasting of their very best, found it all to be
> marginal (I prefer reds, and VA reds are
> typically horrible),

I hope you don't stereotype ALL Virginia wines on
the perhaps limited amount you have tasted.
There ARE some good wines made in Virginia.
Hiddencroft Winery just opened. Try them or Sugar
Loaf Winery.

It really bothers me when people condemn an entire
area or state based on limited sampling. The one
thing that I think is true of many of the
Virginia reds is that they are WAY to much OVER
OAKED. A lot of them taste like licking a cigar
box. One winery even takes great pride in saying
they buy NEW barrels every year.

I live just across the river from Lovettsville,
Virginia in the small town of Brunswick,
Maryland. Maryland is expanding in their wine
production but there are some in the state
capitol who are influenced heavily by the liquor
lobby and distributors and are pretty much
anti-wine. At least Virginia supports the wine
industry in their state.




> and bought a couple bottles
> that I thought might age well and parked them in
> the wine cellar (read: the room in the basement
> I've dedicated to brewing wine, mead, and beer)
> for
> a few years. I typically take a completely
> uninformed (as in, I'm no sommelier or wine
> expert) guess and write the year I think they'll
> be
> more approachable on the label. Say, 2-3 years
> or so. In almost every case I've been happy to
> have purchased the bottle once it has a few more
> years of age.
>
> My sample size is fairly small, but all of the
> wines would fall into the "inexpensive wines"
> category, even if the small winery puts a price
> on the bottle which it can not represent.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Ken Taborek

My only experience here is: Yellowtail does not get better in a year or
two. Seriously, I tried some cheap wines wondering if it would get
better, so stored them off for a year and some for 2 years. No better.

smile. DAve


mail box wrote:
> On 8/21/2008 1:18 AM, Jim Oakley wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:20:40 GMT, Jim > wrote:
> [snipped]
>> From the 30SecWineAdvisor
>> (a free wine lover's page by Robin Garr)
>> http://www.wineloverspage.com/index.phtml
>>
>>
>> • Most wines don't age. This point is simple but often overlooked.
>> Probably 99 percent of all the wines made in the world, including
>> virtually all inexpensive wines, are never better than when they are
>> first bottled. Only a tiny fraction are made to age, and an even
>> smaller number require aging.
>
> I've got to say that I disagree strongly with this advice. I can't
> count the number of times I've visited a small Virginia winery for a
> tasting of their very best, found it all to be marginal (I prefer reds,
> and VA reds are typically horrible), and bought a couple bottles that I
> thought might age well and parked them in the wine cellar (read: the
> room in the basement I've dedicated to brewing wine, mead, and beer) for
> a few years. I typically take a completely uninformed (as in, I'm no
> sommelier or wine expert) guess and write the year I think they'll be
> more approachable on the label. Say, 2-3 years or so. In almost every
> case I've been happy to have purchased the bottle once it has a few more
> years of age.
>
> My sample size is fairly small, but all of the wines would fall into the
> "inexpensive wines" category, even if the small winery puts a price on
> the bottle which it can not represent.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Ken Taborek

On Sep 3, 12:51*pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> mail box wrote:
> > On 8/21/2008 1:18 AM, Jim Oakley wrote:
> >> On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:20:40 GMT, Jim
> >> > wrote:
> > [snipped]
> >> From the 30SecWineAdvisor
> >> (a free wine lover's page by Robin Garr)
> >>http://www.wineloverspage.com/index.phtml
>
> >> ? Most wines don't age. This point is simple
> >> but often overlooked. Probably 99 percent of
> >> all the wines made in the world, including
> >> virtually all inexpensive wines, are never
> >> better than when they are first bottled. Only a
> >> tiny fraction are made to age, and an even
> >> smaller number require aging.
>
> > I've got to say that I disagree strongly with
> > this advice. *I can't count the number of times
> > I've visited a small Virginia winery for a
> > tasting of their very best, found it all to be
> > marginal (I prefer reds, and VA reds are
> > typically horrible),
>
> I hope you don't stereotype ALL Virginia wines on
> the perhaps limited amount you have tasted.
> There ARE some good wines made in Virginia.
> Hiddencroft Winery just opened. Try them or Sugar
> Loaf Winery. *
>
> It really bothers me when people condemn an entire
> area or state based on limited sampling. *The one
> thing that I think is true of many of the
> Virginia reds is that they are WAY to much OVER
> OAKED. *A lot of them taste like licking a cigar
> box. *One winery even takes great pride in saying
> they buy NEW barrels every year.
>
> I live just across the river from Lovettsville,
> Virginia in the small town of Brunswick,
> Maryland. *Maryland is expanding in their wine
> production but there are some in the state
> capitol who are influenced heavily by the liquor
> lobby and distributors and are pretty much
> anti-wine. *At least Virginia supports the wine
> industry in their state.
>
>
>
> > and bought a couple bottles
> > that I thought might age well and parked them in
> > the wine cellar (read: the room in the basement
> > I've dedicated to brewing wine, mead, and beer)
> > for
> > a few years. *I typically take a completely
> > uninformed (as in, I'm no sommelier or wine
> > expert) guess and write the year I think they'll
> > be
> > more approachable on the label. *Say, 2-3 years
> > or so. *In almost every case I've been happy to
> > have purchased the bottle once it has a few more
> > years of age.
>
> > My sample size is fairly small, but all of the
> > wines would fall into the "inexpensive wines"
> > category, even if the small winery puts a price
> > on the bottle which it can not represent.
>
> > Cheers,
> > Ken Taborek- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

This has been an interesting thread and I appreciate all the comments.
Just to add my 2 liters worth here, I haven't tried the wines from
Virginia but have heard some nice things. As for the winery that gets
new barrels every year, I don't understand why. First of all the
expense would be considerable and there is a lot of aging left in a
wine barrel. If I am not mistaken, you should be able to use a barrel
for 5 years. Then I would hope they re-sell it to the home winemaker,
like me who is glad to get a bit more oak out of it. A new barrel each
year would greatly over oak the wine I would think.

As for aging in the bottle, I can only say, it depends. It depends on
the wine, storage, and what one might expect from the wine. Homemade
wines seem to do well aging in the bottle and my Barbera seems to have
benefited considerably from another year. The blend I made this year,
alicante and grenache, by concensus, won't greatly benefit from aging,
so I will drink it now. Wines that I purchase from wineries and from
the PA state store rarely age beyond a week from purchase because I
buy it to drink now.

Salute!
Orlando

wrote:
<clipped>
>
> This has been an interesting thread and I appreciate all the comments.
> Just to add my 2 liters worth here, I haven't tried the wines from
> Virginia but have heard some nice things. As for the winery that gets
> new barrels every year, I don't understand why. First of all the
> expense would be considerable and there is a lot of aging left in a
> wine barrel. If I am not mistaken, you should be able to use a barrel
> for 5 years. Then I would hope they re-sell it to the home winemaker,
> like me who is glad to get a bit more oak out of it. A new barrel each
> year would greatly over oak the wine I would think.
>
<clipped>
>
> Salute!
> Orlando

Are you sure you'll be extracting oak flavor from an oak barrel after 5
years use? If I'm not mistaken, they're generally considered to be
'neutral' for oak extraction after the fourth year (some even after the
third year).

You'll still get micro-oxygenation and flavor concentration (due to
evaporation) after that, so the barrel is still useful, but I think
you'd have to add a new stave or three (i.e. part of a "chain-of-oak" or
equivalent) to get noticeable oak flavor.

Gene

On Sep 5, 8:54*am, gene > wrote:
> wrote:
>
> <clipped>
>
>
>
> > This has been an interesting thread and I appreciate all the comments.
> > Just to add my 2 liters worth here, I haven't tried the wines from
> > Virginia but have heard some nice things. As for the winery that gets
> > new barrels every year, I don't understand why. First of all the
> > expense would be considerable and there is a lot of aging left in a
> > wine barrel. If I am not mistaken, you should be able to use a barrel
> > for 5 years. Then I would hope they re-sell it to the home winemaker,
> > like me who is glad to get a bit more oak out of it. A new barrel each
> > year would greatly over oak the wine I would think.
>
> <clipped>
>
> > Salute!
> > Orlando
>
> Are you sure you'll be extracting oak flavor from an oak barrel after 5
> years use? If I'm not mistaken, they're generally considered to be
> 'neutral' for oak extraction after the fourth year (some even after the
> third year).
>
> You'll still get micro-oxygenation and flavor concentration (due to
> evaporation) after that, so the barrel is still useful, but *I think
> you'd have to add a new stave or three (i.e. part of a "chain-of-oak" or
> equivalent) to get noticeable oak flavor.
>
> Gene

Gene -
I was not sure about using a barrel for 5 years, so I appreciate your
comment. While I personally wouldn't attempt to add staves to a
barrel, oak probably should be added pehaps oak spirals could be used.
I don't have any experience with them but I would imagine that they
would enhance the oak of an old barrel.
Orlando

wrote:

> On Sep 5, 8:54*am, gene >
> wrote:
>> wrote:
>>
>> <clipped>
>>
>>
>>
>> > This has been an interesting thread and I
>> > appreciate all the comments. Just to add my 2
>> > liters worth here, I haven't tried the wines
>> > from Virginia but have heard some nice
>> > things. As for the winery that gets new
>> > barrels every year, I don't understand why.
>> > First of all the expense would be
>> > considerable and there is a lot of aging left
>> > in a wine barrel. If I am not mistaken, you
>> > should be able to use a barrel for 5 years.
>> > Then I would hope they re-sell it to the home
>> > winemaker, like me who is glad to get a bit
>> > more oak out of it. A new barrel each year
>> > would greatly over oak the wine I would
>> > think.
>>
>> <clipped>
>>
>> > Salute!
>> > Orlando
>>
>> Are you sure you'll be extracting oak flavor
>> from an oak barrel after 5 years use? If I'm
>> not mistaken, they're generally considered to
>> be 'neutral' for oak extraction after the
>> fourth year (some even after the third year).
>>
>> You'll still get micro-oxygenation and flavor
>> concentration (due to evaporation) after that,
>> so the barrel is still useful, but *I think
>> you'd have to add a new stave or three (i.e.
>> part of a "chain-of-oak" or equivalent) to get
>> noticeable oak flavor.
>>
>> Gene
>
> Gene -
> I was not sure about using a barrel for 5 years,
> so I appreciate your comment. While I personally
> wouldn't attempt to add staves to a barrel, oak
> probably should be added pehaps oak spirals
> could be used. I don't have any experience with
> them but I would imagine that they would enhance
> the oak of an old barrel. Orlando

One winery in Northern Virginia has been using the
spirals in spent barrels with (IMHO) great
success.

I am using them in my amateur production also. I
screwed a stainless eye screw into the bottom of
silicon barrel bung and tie and hang spirals
using stainless wire from the bung. It is very
easy to extract this way and pull when necessary
without fishing for bags of chips in the bottom
of the barrel.

Lot of this depends on how the wine is made, both for whites and reds.
For commercial wines, the main goal in the cheaper end of the
spectrum is to move as much wine as fast as possible, so they are made
for immediate drinking and don't have the stuffing to improve with
cellaring. In home winemaking that's not a concern, and we have the
freedom to make wines we like - a big plus!

Pp

On Sep 3, 10:02*am, DAve Allison > wrote:
> My only experience here is: Yellowtail does not get better in a year or
> two. Seriously, I tried some cheap wines wondering if it would get
> better, so stored them off for a year and some for 2 years. No better.
>
> smile. DAve
>
>
>
> mail box wrote:
> > On 8/21/2008 1:18 AM, Jim Oakley wrote:
> >> On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:20:40 GMT, Jim > wrote:
> > [snipped]
> >> From the 30SecWineAdvisor
> >> (a free wine lover's page by Robin Garr)
> >>http://www.wineloverspage.com/index.phtml
>
> >> • Most wines don't age. This point is simple but often overlooked.
> >> Probably 99 percent of all the wines made in the world, including
> >> virtually all inexpensive wines, are never better than when they are
> >> first bottled. Only a tiny fraction are made to age, and an even
> >> smaller number require aging.
>
> > I've got to say that I disagree strongly with this advice. *I can't
> > count the number of times I've visited a small Virginia winery for a
> > tasting of their very best, found it all to be marginal (I prefer reds,
> > and VA reds are typically horrible), and bought a couple bottles that I
> > thought might age well and parked them in the wine cellar (read: the
> > room in the basement I've dedicated to brewing wine, mead, and beer) for
> > a few years. *I typically take a completely uninformed (as in, I'm no
> > sommelier or wine expert) guess and write the year I think they'll be
> > more approachable on the label. *Say, 2-3 years or so. *In almost every
> > case I've been happy to have purchased the bottle once it has a few more
> > years of age.
>
> > My sample size is fairly small, but all of the wines would fall into the
> > "inexpensive wines" category, even if the small winery puts a price on
> > the bottle which it can not represent.
>
> > Cheers,
> > Ken Taborek- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On 9/3/2008 12:51 PM, Paul E. Lehmann wrote:
[snipped]
> I hope you don't stereotype ALL Virginia wines on
> the perhaps limited amount you have tasted.
> There ARE some good wines made in Virginia.
> Hiddencroft Winery just opened. Try them or Sugar
> Loaf Winery.
>
> It really bothers me when people condemn an entire
> area or state based on limited sampling. The one
> thing that I think is true of many of the
> Virginia reds is that they are WAY to much OVER
> OAKED. A lot of them taste like licking a cigar
> box. One winery even takes great pride in saying
> they buy NEW barrels every year.

I agree with you, VA wineries over oak their reds to a very large
degree. The spouse and I have a code word for this: Plank.
I'm not at all condemning or stereotyping an entire area or state based
on limited sampling, I am a VA resident (born and raised here, even
though NOVA is a very transient area) and I have sampled a great many VA
wines from very many VA wineries. So when I say that most VA reds are
horrible, this is based on a very large sample size over a great many
years of sampling. Just my opinion, but one which is shared by a good
many friends and family here in VA.


Cheers,
Ken